Paul's Comments

I gotta say I believe that glen-doty is correct.

Back when the 1$/Watt threshold was the brass ring, I conducted an analysis of of a "typical soup-to-nuts" installation on a commercial building.

I injected one twist. Using First Solar's then very hard to find efficiency claims, I set the price of the solar material to $0/Watt -- that's right free cells. But because of all of the associated BOS and installation, the net cost of a typical install still managed to ring the bell at $6/Watt *before incentives*.

Why you're asking??? Well the lower efficiency of the thin films requires more area, and the extra area costs more to install. More rooftop, more frames, more conduit, more wire, more junction boxes, more sensors, more weight, more labor!!!

It's not the cell cost, it's the whole package. And frankly, I'm having a hard time swallowing that "recycling trust-fund" [censored] notion. {sorry}

So let's cut through the fluff.

Perhaps there are folks reading this that would be interested in <4$/Watt *installed* CSP systems??? You can even say it sounds like "steam & mirrors" (cough) -- because that's *exactly* how it works!

The Light is Green!

Fires of unknown origin are not interesting *news*. That and the damage caused by DC arcs frequently wipes out the evidence of the fault that caused the damage.

With organizations like the CCEF leading the charge, it's a little like Bill Cosby's routine of the coin toss between General Custer v. Sitting Bull.

objoke:

General Custer this is General Sitting Bull, Call the toss 'Cuss".
He call heads (coin flipping) It's tails.
You lost the toss Cuss. (quietly) Heh-heh.

(you either remember this by now and are laughing, or you're oblivious, or you know of Bill Cosby and are possibly curious.)

General Sitting Bull, what will you do?
(silence 3 seconds, nods as though listening)
OK. General Sitting Bull says:
General Custer, you and your men will assemble down there in the valley, while he and all the Indians in the world ride right on down on ya.
{laughter}


We, the manufacturers are like Custer. We lost the toss. This is not a competition among equals. State agencies are crippling the market's ability to field technology solutions by favoring political friends and excluding others based on impossible criteria.

I keep seeing rumors of investigations into certain agencies. Has anyone else here seen these?

Feh! I approached Xcel in 2001 with this exact same plan. Should I try to get a finders fee???

Ahh fooey -- 4MWth isn't a hill of beans when compared to a coal plant. The shop air compressors probably reject more heat than that 24x7. So yes, it's a publicity stunt.

I'm not saying that adding CSP to the property surrounding a coal plant can't contribute to the total energy output, but politicos really need to get their heads in the game and stop all this phony green-wash. The lefty agenda still trumps good-old-fashioned common sense.

BTW S&T could probably have bid a 4MW(electric) system with installation for less than they are going to pay for the Abengoa panels.

Lastly, I hope the panels are ready to stand up to the coal emissions that are going to coat the mirrors with black dust and goo... It ought to be funny, but it's actually quite sad.

We received a copy of the solicitation the day it was completed on FedConnect -- I don't know what fantasy land document the author is referring to, but the RFP sets an almost impossible set of goals.

The requirements places on solar power plants is unrealistic, it calls for cost points comparable to coal fired plants, while acknowledging that solar plants can only collect heat during 1/3rd of the day. Why not restrict boiler firing to 8 hr/day and see what the price of the generated electricity night be and allow solar to compete for funds at that price point???

I don't know who the winners are going to be but I'm confident that the American people are getting screwed again!

Sorry Stephen, (about the poor rating for the article, that is)

I agree 110%, it's just a "D'Oh!" to quote thew noted philosopher Homer :^)

I've been reading about 6 point plans, 8 point plans, etc, and how the gummint is gonna fix 'everyting'[sic]. But I'm nerv -- no, I'm pissed off that the folks with $$$ actually think that investing a small slice of their assets actually qualifies as risk taking in anyone's dictionary. The cancer is much deeper than anyone suspects.

One of these days the VC's are going to realize that they successfully hoarded all of the $$$ they were capable of collecting and that they have accumulated *nothing*. Like 3 year-olds on the beach arguing about who has the most sand!

The Light is Green!

I hear the voice of Willy Wonka, but I can't make the meter work. :^)

Scott,

It's not that we want to charge you up front for the 20 years of energy, but we have to; unless...

If you are willing to sign a contract for some number of years then I'd be *happy* to spread the cost out for as many years as you'd like... I've got a price schedule all worked out!

I'm sure you understand that every unit we lease out has a capital cost we have to absorb, so in reality you'll end up paying more because _someone_ has to carry the cost of that capital.

So if $0.15/kWh is your price point, then give me a call! We'll figure out how much system you need and how many years you want to spread it out over.

The Light is Green!

Aside from the already mentioned issues with the $$$, I'm upset with CCEF for disqualifying CSP (concentrating solar power).

We could generate power for a fraction of the cost of PV, but since out 'technology' is not recognized as being on the approved list... we're out in the cold.

The Light is Green!

I like Ormat as a company, They've got some real "beaute"s working for them... I met this one guy tried to pump me for all the technical secrets at a trade show... until I asked him to sign an NDA. Then he walked away mad, and all pissed off, saying out loud for attendees to hear -- that I had nuthin, and that my ideas were flawed... He was one jen-yoo-ine arse!

Nuthin' disruptive about it! Too many technical "shortcomings" (I'm being polite)

Steel as a substrate??? You gotta be kidding! "Look I bought these cool new solar roof tiles, but they rusted!" Sorry! Thank you for playing!

And to the commenters, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get your units straight!

Dimitar,

Everything has negative externalities. Wood frame housing caused deforestation, seafood dinners caused ocean depletion; it's part of the price of technological civilization. Every person on the planet competes with every other. The solution is a capitalistic system -- NOT SOCIALIST

As much as I hate regulation, have the uranium mines take back the spent fuel... The holes created to mine the uranium are more than big enough to hold all the waste even it fuel reprocessing was the norm.

I agree with Jennifer.

Looks like a pair of dudes that vastly over estimate their importance.

I wanted to post some jobs, but paying $700 to reach so few candidates...

There hasn't even been any good articles for months. And logging on to comment is always a chore.

Seeyabye!

I thought that this sounded like quite appropriate use of those big ugly weeds, considering that Tequila tastes like motor fuel. ;^)

I would also like to endorse CSP but on a much smaller scale than the big south western sites. The 92 mile square is a metaphor for the relative size of the necessary area to be controlled. I believe it actually represents an area smaller that the current us road system...

I would also like to encourage readers to take a look at my Push Pickens Plan site at http://push.pickensplan.com/profile/Solar44

Or http://www.solarandthermal/com/ for more info about the products

The Light is Green!