Competing Programs Raise Questions About Solar Training

By Stephen Lacey, Podcast Producer
June 3, 2010   |   20 Comments
A new UL University certification and training program for solar installers is entering the market this summer, and it will compete directly against NABCEP.

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20 Reader Comments
Comment
1 of 20
June 3, 2010
I just scanned this article and did not even watch the video. So if my comments are off topic or inappropriate that's why.

I worked in a Fortune 500 company for many years and the last 5 were specifically in training. We were responsible for training everyone from union Iron-Workers to company Vice Presidents. As a member of the training organization we were given everything we needed to do our job. Consultants in the field of training, strategic planning and program development experts, presentation and video training, adult learning styles, you name it.

The training program design we settled on was ADDIE. The Analysis, Design, Development, Implementation and Evaluation [ADDIE] process. The ADDIE process required that you at least consider all phases of the training although some may not be weighted at heavily as others.

As a now semi-retired Quality Engineer I was lucky enough to be a part of this training organizations for the last 5 years of my working career. Training usually started by doing a job Analysis. This meant that effective training took into consideration things like electrical theory and safety, hand tool and ladder use, and how to walk on lightweight concrete tile for example. Even simple stuff like how to correctly mix concrete for ground mounted support structures. Knowledge of the manufacturers product and how to evaluate a different manufacturers product when it is introduced into the mix is important. Things like one line, design and as-built drawing creation are important for record purposes - just ask your local inspector or customer 10 years from now.

If your training program does not take into consideration at least some of these elements then you would probably not want me to come and audit your training program. Here is one quality strategy which might help: "If you want to know what quality training is - ask your customers".

That's My Opinion - What's Yours?
tomgarven@hotmail.com
Comment
2 of 20
June 4, 2010
Training is divided into two parts namely, the class room training where the theoritical procedures along with the working principles can be explained. It will not be easy for an individual fresh from school / college to understand much during this part of training. Whereas, for anyone having earlier experience in similar fields would not take much time to understand the procedures and principles in the new trade.
However, in the case of freshers, it is necessary to train them in the field for hands on experience along with the class room training to grasp and understand the job properly. A sort of internship.
Therefore, the training program should be designed accordingly, depending on the candidate's previous knowledge / experience.
Certification grades / accreditation could be given only after some experience is gained and skills acquired by the candidates.
Comment
3 of 20
June 4, 2010
Continued education is needed, Certifications are needed on not just the Contractor but installers. The State lic. Dept in Ca. does not qualify to my standards, so 3rd. party is needed. A Natl. org. is best, but who that is could be determined by the Manufacturer. I know this sounds like a can of worms, but the debate/turf war could take place in that venue. doesn't the mfgr. have a vested interest in quality,endurance and safety? After all they create the word on installation, application and are the expert on that product. The "listing" of the product could/is based on that anyway.
Greg Chick
Comment
4 of 20
June 4, 2010
The original equipment manufacturer and the liability carrier have seat-of-the-pants interests in seeing that competence and safety are ensured. Both have much to lose if installations are not properly done.

Callbacks and accidents affect their reputations and bottom lines.

In addition, there are now on-line places for customers to register their reactions. Many prospective customers may be checking these before going forward with projects.

An astute installer is going to be aware of all this.
Comment
5 of 20
June 4, 2010
In 2000 characters it is going to be very difficult to make any sense out of this post.

I started my career as a Quality Engineer quite by accident when my employer assigned me to work in a Quality Control Dept. Everyone who was getting promoted was a member of the American Society for Quality and if you wanted a promotion - you joined LOL. Some hard work, some education and a test and I became a "Certified Quality Engineer [CQE] by the American Society for Quality". To maintain maintain your certification you needed to earn Recertification Units [CU's] just like many other professions. You were given some credit for work, some for education and some for things like attending conferences but you could not become recertified by doing just one.

It should probably not be much different for someone working in the solar energy business. Standards change, products change, materials change all of these should lead to some form of certification. Codes and standards are normally written to protect the public from harm. Certifications on the other hand are normally done to ensure workers know how to safely do their work.

As a CQE I have come into contact with literally thousands of codes and standards. Some of the more common types are ASME, UL, IEEE, ASTM and others like ISO which are international standards. The ISPQ International Standard 01022 contained in this article is such a standard - it is an international standard.

There is nothing wrong with an international standard except for the fact that it is just a standard - it does not carry the force of law - unless it is changed into a law by codification. Codifications is a process whereby a nation, state or city adopts the standards and makes it a law. Some UL standards have been codified into enforceable laws. A CODE is the law and can result in a fine, penalty or even imprisonment. A standard is a recommended practice but is not enforceable by law. Out of characters.
Comment
6 of 20
June 6, 2010
ok this ridiculous do they understand that there are unskilled workers who who are going into this field to feed there familys. as well i took the nabcep and believe it or not its not all its suppose to be.. as well it is written for those who have phds, not for the common folk who are struggling to make ends meet this interview,is one for the records nabcep ulimate goal is to control a industry that fits there bylaw and governs a certain type of worker, they forget that this country was built open the backs of those who where educate and did not take a tests, but to learned from one another, dont get me wrong we do have to have certification but test the on hands portion part not just the theory side,i have been working in field for quite awhile learned everything from an exerienced C10 and i do not need the Nabcep due to my experienceand most consumers dont even know who nabcep is but yet they know what contractor is, listen i have been trained by the best in the field and learned at each job what to do how to design and how to put a safe system on anyones home or commercial business as if it was my own. The people i train now know this safety is the first thing in dealing with any renewable energy product. Oh by the way the accredit school that are not bootcamps should have over 300 hrs of training theory and hands on... not 2 days or 5 days, and guess what nabcep approves the 2 and 5 day school and allows them to a have crash course to pass the nabcep... a credited installer is one who takes time to show there expertise and trains those individuals side by side on the roof and on the ground your interview with all three of the reps, is really a sour can of pickles talk to the men and women of the industry and see what they say...instead of those who continue to sit at a desk arguing over test scores... get real.. and train those who want to be trained.. and stop this bicking of who has the best certs.and training we need a ground force of men and women in pv.
Comment
7 of 20
June 6, 2010
xmanv22 excellent post and you have identified some of the problems facing the solar industry.

If you were a high school graduate who wanted to start working in the solar field you would probably need quite a bit of training. Electrical theory, work practices and safety, knowledge of manufacturers products, knowledge of building codes and of course actual work experience. Someone with this experience level might need at least 10 days of training and a lot of that should be hands-on actual installation experience. You can teach ohms law in 5 minutes. It can take 5 hours to teach someone how to do roof penetrations to prevent leaks.

If you were a journeyman electrician with 10 years of residential and industrial experience the need for training is going to be significantly different. A couple of days would probably be more than enough in this case. Some specific knowledge needed for roof and ground mounting systems, manufacturers unique requirements and inverter to disconnect and local building code metering and connection requirements.

BOTH OF THESE examples have one thing in common. Accepting everyone for the same class or training sessions is a HUGE waste of time. The first 'A' in the ADDIE [see above] process requires that you evaluate the student to determine THEIR needs. This can be accomplished by the documentation of work experience, license examination, interviewing or by testing to determine knowledge levels. This however does NOTHING to prove if the candidate for training can actually DO THE WORK. Some evaluation of ABILITY should be done before training by actual hands on or interviewing processes at models or mock-ups of actual solar system.

Why is this kind of stuff important? Solar is going to explode in the U.S. and thousands of installers will be needed. I hope they all have the knowledge and skills necessary to correctly install system safely. Out of space. tomgarven@hotmail.com
Comment
8 of 20
June 7, 2010
An entrance exam could be required. Levels 1,2,&3 could be taught and tested. Therefore contractors could see/know who is qualified to do what tasks by the cert the worker holds. An inspector or Project supervisor can control workmanship quality. I am a SME for Ca. State CSLB and been trying to get CSLB to step up to this level of cert. by requiring cont. edu. (PDU) Control of who does work is needed.
Greg Chick Lic. Green Plumber USA, Ca. lic. 315036
Comment
9 of 20
June 7, 2010
Excellent post gregchick.

As you stated, the type and amount of training could be based on an entrance exam. I would be even more stringent and say 'SHALL' be, LOL. When someone first enters training we have NO IDEA what their level of knowledge is. No different than someone entering college. Entrance exams determine WHERE they belong in the educational process. However, entrance exams for individuals who want to work in the field of solar energy would be entirely different than a college exam. The exam should probably focus on determining WHAT someone already KNOWS and what they can already DO as it relates to the solar industry task analysis for the job they want do. Significantly different than someone beginning a 4 year career path to say a degree in engineering.

As far as workmanship quality; NO ONE in the world can do better work than an American. There are MANY reasons why companies like Hyundai, Toyota, Subaru and others build plants here in the U.S. and quality of workmanship is just one. As someone who has worked in the quality field for over 30 years, I can give you hours and hours of examples of why QUALITY starts first with the individual doing the work. Instill a quality work ethic in the beginning and you will never be disappointed by someones performance.

tomgarven@hotmail.com
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Comment
10 of 20
Anonymous
June 8, 2010
My, my. There are allot of installers protecting their vested interests. To me, it comes down to the installation. That is what is needing insurance, right. Everyone has poor performance days, even a nerd with many degrees or someone having spent bundles on training. That does not insure an excellent installation, PV or thermal, both of which have many testable interfaces. For sure, even posters on this blog may not have the skills to proof their own posts. For those reasons, I recommend that installations have a code of quality installation to proove to, no matter who does the work. The "good ol boy, in crowd" method of certifiying people is extremely flawed in so many ways. Let those who need training get training, and those who already know the trade do the work and have the installation checked by a certified field inspecter. I see some young installers armed with certifications who believe they do not have to do actual labor or get their hands dirty to do an installation.
If you have accumulated skills and ingenuity you should not have to pay another to teach you what you know already, or give you approval to do your work, and charge you plenty to do it..
The same could be said for product certification. Having one high buck product certifying organization in the USA is positioning it ripe for corruption and cronyism. The big companies win. The working class is extorted by the "intelectuals and certifiers and teachers".
Just a thot, ey?
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Comment
11 of 20
Anonymous
June 9, 2010
That is exactly the way I believe anonymous. I am a licensed master electrician and licensed electrical contractor. Have been in the electrical business since 1978. I am also a businessman, and want some training or continuing education for my trade, so I am up to date on any new ideas and wiring methods, but at my discretion and decision. This certification process has gone way overboard. I can legally and knowledgably wire a 40 story building or a small house and everything in between. I took a NABCEP course and learned guess what? Exactly the same stuff that I already know. Not one thing more.

Now I think the people at NABCEP are doing a great job. They are training non electricians the right way to wire up solar. I think they forget what NABCEP stands for. It stands for North American Board of Certified Practitioners. I am already certified as a master electrician, and I am already practicing the trade. So before they go crying about causing confusion and two standards, its too late they better look in the mirror. They have already done that. I am not saying I am better than NABCEP. The misconception that their's is the only way it should be done.

In the State of Texas you must be a licensed Electrical Contractor to install any electrical apparatus, wind, solar or any other electrical apparatus. A solar license is good if you don't have a contractor license in 14 other states. Thats good for those people who are being retrained for a new trade. But why must I get more certification? Because NABCEP has sold this as a solar training, when really all it is electrical work, sizing wiring, load calculations, voltage drop, etc. All this is doing is creating confusion in the marketplace NABCEP, oh sorry thats what NABCEP is crying about. Ohh I feel better now, I am going back up on the roof and install more solar/electric.
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Comment
12 of 20
Anonymous
June 11, 2010
I am a big supporter of the UL certification program that requires Electrical Licensing before sitting for any certification examination. I am also a long time Licensed Electrical Contractor actively doing business in seven States including the PV market. The bottom line is PV systems are electrical generating plants no matter how small and should be installed under the direction of a licensed electrician. This does not mean you need a licensed worker to do the roof penetrations and the racking systems that is what apprentices and roofing contractors are for. The UL certification program being developed with the NECA and IBEW gives an electrician who is unfamiliar with PV the proof of knowledge he will need. It is just another specialty, among many in our trade, an E.C. can decide to go in. I know of no State or Utility that will allow a PV system to be activated or grid connected that the final connections are not done by a licensed electrician. I am tired of pool and thermal solar contractors including trainers that are part of NABCEB claiming all this solar experience it is completely different technologies and shouldn't be tolerated. Lets train the next generation of electrical contractors the right way and that is through well established apprenticeship programs that will result in the ability of the individual to get a State license at the end of the day. Otherwise they will be spending a lot of money on certifications that will result in them always working for somebody else.
Comment
13 of 20
June 12, 2010
Very well said! I have told the Contractors Lic. Board just that!, additionally I am a Green Plumber USA Certified Trainer (another one of the cert. orgs. we are blogging about) But you hit it right on the head. Additional education is needed for contractors, training is needed for employees aren't these different certs" a good product for that?
Greg Chick
Comment
14 of 20
June 13, 2010
Hi All:

Post #11:
"The same could be said for product certification. Having one high buck product certifying organization in the USA is positioning it ripe for corruption and cronyism."
God, you do not know how right you are. SRCC holds the strings for thermal certs. The only lab in the USA is FSEC. They can do or say anything they want and are accountable to know one, except the US Government via the DOE who "aids" them. They can prevent you from being in business even though you have an excellent product.
This link is my story that began with a letter from FSEC on Dec 14, 2008 and is still not resolved.

http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/01/31/srcc-certifications-an-unexpected-reality/

I have tried to get REW to do a story on it, but so far they seem not interested... There are linked videos I have done as well with combined views of close to 7000 on 12 different video sites. The kicker is that all the state tax programs have jumped on the SRCC bandwagon as well, so the combined credits make is IMPOSSIBLE to compete with...

.....Bill
Comment
15 of 20
June 14, 2010
I tried to read most of the opinions, I did watch the video – it was a little embarrassing – and it's very interesting that the origin of this thread comes from an ex-Fortune 500.
Imagine if instead a State, GE, EATON, Schneider, or Siemens could deliver a journeyman electrician certificate or contractor licenses. Again, imagine if NFPA or IEEE went to deliver journeyman certificates or contractor licenses. Same goes for NEMA, or NECA, or UL. Neither situation seems acceptable because they are parties into the electrical industry. Some of them set standards, other makes products, sometimes they work in harmony and sometimes they compete to capture a segment in their particular market. Only a bureaucratic institution tied to the public interest as a government office can do the job without being suspected of partiality. To guarantee a level of excellence and technical pertinence, a committee made with professional and trade associations should oversee this office and make public evaluations about its performance and, if needed, suggest modifications to the evaluation material and procedures.
Unfortunately, in California – the case I know a little about – the certification exam is just a hundred questions about the NEC after a number of hours working for a licensed company or electrical contractor under the supervision of a certify journeyman… I receive in my classroom "donkeys" – please forgive me – that have the certification but are unable to wire a three-wire control, set a VFD, or perform a basic calculation of electrical loads. About safety… zip = zero = nada… So although I defend a public certification system, the one I have at home is far from effective.
In the "training side" it's fine, and almost desirable, to have many private institutions competing. That helps a lot to elevate the quality of the training and education delivered.

My conclusions in the next post.
Comment
16 of 20
June 14, 2010
From post #16

In summary, I think it is not a desirable situation to have private or industry-driven institutions delivering certificates of professional proficiency. This particular segment of the electrical trade – PV systems – should be incorporated into the State journeyman level exam, and this exam should be greatly improved and overseen by the guys who know the science behind the subject and the actual needs under field conditions
Comment
17 of 20
June 14, 2010
Good points, that is why I said what I said earlier in this blogg, But if we can not get the CSLB or AHJ to implement such level of qualifications, we need to do so in our own industry. L am a Cert. Instructor for Green Plumbers USA wanting to educate my industry only after giving up on the State of Ca. doing so ....Any Education is good and may be a ladder step to next level
Greg Chick Instructor GPUSA.
Comment
18 of 20
June 14, 2010
With almost ten years of experience installing, designing and manufacturing rooftop PV systems, I couldn't resist chiming in. Many of these posts are historical (OK, some hysterical) in nature — and simply do not take into account where the PV industry is going. It's important that we train towards the future of our industry, not the past.

Plug and play AC panels are what the future workforce will be installing on residential rooftops. As one wise man already said, the biggest danger with an AC panel is if it falls on your head. Training on high voltage DC systems, inverter selection, string sizing, etc. will only be needed for large commercial and utility scale installations.

So with this transition in mind, here is my summary of what we need for the vast majority of rooftops:

1. Basic safety training — particularly ladder safety, fall protection and electrical wiring.
2. Residential AC wiring
3. Filling out paperwork

As previously mentioned, it only takes a few hours to learn how to attach panels to the roof and make the mechanical connections. The rest of these skills are already possessed by solar contractors, as well as existing electrical and HVAC contractors.

We don't need to re-invent the wheel with new training courses. NABCEP and apprentice programs are all good. Most contractors already have the right skills. Unfortunately, the hardest part for these skilled installers is the paperwork — let's try to fix that.
Comment
19 of 20
August 13, 2010
agreed
Comment
20 of 20
September 30, 2010
Solar proficiency is intrinsically connected to proficiency in electrical systems, since that is, in effect, what it's part of. Issues like grounding, wire ampacity, etc. clearly tie the two together.
In most states, the homeowner can do his own electrical work. That
usually includes solar system installation. To the extent that new technolgies and policiess like microinverters, and net metering, have vastly simplified the assembly of and reduced the need for knowledge to design these systems (they have become very, very modular andd almost plug-and-play) there will be far less knowledge required on the PV side of the equation.
Technologies most quickly advance when they become not so cumbersome and complicated, as were solar PV systems just a few years ago. Quite frankly, technically the most difficult task these days is to figure out where and how to mount the panels, on a roof usually pointed in the wrong direction.
As for quality of installation, that is what our inspection system is there for. It shouldn't matter who built the thing - the important point is how it was built, which an inspector can determine. As with the electrical trade, the inspectors are the ones we really want to see fully qualified. And there are far fewer inspectors required than installers, so the issue of PV system competency is really not that daunting.
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Stephen Lacey

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About: I am a reporter with ClimateProgress.org, a blog published by the Center for American Progress. I am former editor and producer for RenewableEnergyWorld.com, wh... more »

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