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Florida Innovates with Its Eucalyptus and Citrus for Biomass Production

Bruce Dorminey, Correspondent
January 11, 2013  |  30 Comments

By taking full advantage of both its natural subtropical climate and its own citrus resources, Florida's fledgling biomass energy sector looks to be finally coming into its own.

Two recent initiatives tackle biomass conversion from very different angles, however.  The one that is arguably further along in its financing will convert biomass from Eucalyptus trees into electricity for input onto Florida’s power grid, while a second project aims to produce commercial ethanol from citrus waste.

U.S. EcoGen (Ecogen), a Florida- and Maryland-based bioenergy company, has signed an agreement with Florida Power and Light (FPL) to provide 180 MW of electricity created from the conversion of Eucalyptus biomass via synchronous steam turbine generators. 

FPL says such woody biomass should provide enough power for as many as 50,000 of its residential customers beginning in 2019.

Pending approval by the Florida Public Service Commission, U.S. EcoGen (Ecogen) plans on building three power plants at a cost of $900 million, which will be located in the Florida counties of Martin, Okeechobee and Clay.  A fourth $300 million Ecogen plant, which the commission has already approved, is set for Polk County, Florida and will deliver as much as 64 MW to Progress Energy Florida, Inc.

FPL projects its own agreement with the three Ecogen plants should, over three decades, save its customers as much as $167 million. 

“This will be the first time FPL has purchased biomass feedstock specifically grown for electricity power production,” said FPL spokesperson Sarah Gatewood.  “The majority of our energy comes from natural gas and nuclear power.” 

As Ecogen’s CEO William Quinn explains, Eucalyptus grandis is a woody biomass tree species that grows easily in subtropical climates like south central Florida.

“The metrics we consider — BTUs per acre per year or tons per acre per year — just make the decision of planting eucalyptus in this climate compelling,” said Quinn.

And unlike some species, even after harvest, a Eucalyptus tree can regenerate from its own stumps.

Ecogen’s plan is to acquire as much as 10,000 acres per power plant in which to grow sustainable Eucalyptus while at the same time financing the four plants’ construction. 

While waiting for the company’s new Eucalyptus plantations to fully mature, Ecogen will use what it terms “bridge fuel” feedstock; that is, biomass from existing tree resources for conversion into electrical power.  The first Eucalyptus will be ready for harvest two years after planting.  But for sustainability, harvests will subsequently be rotated on a four year basis.

When Ecogen does fully switch to Eucalyptus, Quinn says, it will be chipped and combusted in what Ecogen terms a closed-loop system.  That means the company will use biomass grown and harvested in close proximity to the plant as fuel to generate some 565,000 pounds of steam per hour.

“All four of our plants,” said Quinn, “will combust the biomass in a boiler to create high-pressure, super-heated steam that then will move through a 60-MW steam turbine to generate the electricity.” 

Quinn says that most nuclear and coal power plants are equipped with 300- to 400-MW steam turbine generators, so from Florida Power’s perspective, this could seem like a boutique project.

Even though 180 MW represents less than one percent of Florida Power’s total generating capacity of 24,000 MW, Gatewood says that the agreement still represents an important renewable initiative for FPL, Florida’s largest utility with some 4.6 million customers.

“The most difficult thing is attracting capital during the development period; a period which requires a lot of engineering and environmental work,” said Quinn.  “This has also been a very difficult environment to raise capital because financial institutions haven’t had liquidity.”  

As Quinn readily admits, the road to raising capital to fund the Eucalyptus project has been a hard slog.  But he says it’s still inherently less risky than basing a biomass energy project on more volatile liquid commodities like ethanol.

However, a 2007 plan to turn a portion of Florida’s citrus waste — mostly peels and membranes from grapefruit and oranges — into commercial-quality ethanol caught the attention of FPL Energy, LLC, one of Florida Power’s subsidiaries. 

It was to have been the first-ever commercial scale citrus waste to ethanol plant.  And it was to have been headed by David Stewart, a Boca Raton-based entrepreneur whose Citrus-Energy, LLC had an agreement with FPL Energy to produce ethanol from an estimated 5 million tons of the state’s annual production of citrus waste.  Heretofore, such waste has traditionally been used as low-value cattle feed. 

Estimates are that a fully-mature citrus waste to ethanol industry in Florida alone could produce over 60 million gallons of ethanol per year, or about one percent of the state’s annual gasoline consumption. 

Although Stewart’s project never saw fruition, which he says was due to both lower oil prices — that made the prospect of citrus-based ethanol less attractive at the pump; and, the 2008 financial crisis — which Stewart says caused FPL’s enthusiasm for the project to wane.  However, the entrepreneur maintains that once oil hits more than $120 a barrel, such citrus-based ethanol could become viable.

Yet retired USDA research chemist Karel Grohmann questions whether Stewart’s research was even far enough along to actually create ethanol in the first place.

The Florida-based Grohmann has been working on the conversion of citrus peel waste to ethanol for the last two decades.  He says the biggest financial sticking point for the process has been the untenably high cost of the enzymes needed to actually convert the peels’ carbohydrates into sugars.  It is these sugars which are then fermented into ethanol, technically a form of alcohol.  

But Renewable Spirits, LLC, of Delray Beach, with Grohmann as Principal Investigator, has found a way to drastically cut the amount of enzymes needed for the citrus waste to ethanol conversion.

As a result, Renewable Spirits now has an economically-viable pilot plant currently processing and funneling some two tons of citrus waste into 10,000 gallon ethanol fermenters.  

Grohmann says that his own company’s ethanol can be made cheaper from citrus waste than corn, and notes: “So, right now, we’re looking for commercial partners.”

Even so, as Quinn notes, with the massive uncertainty of such liquid commodities markets, there’s no guarantee on pricing in what he terms a “marketplace dominated by large international oil and gas companies.”  

In contrast, Quinn says Ecogen’s current plans to use Eucalyptus biomass for the creation of bio-energy is a more financeable and risk-averse way of proceeding.  “With all these biomass products, there are commodity and price risks,” said Quinn.  “By growing the biomass on our own, we at least solve the commodity risk.”  

Quinn says that thus far, his own company has also been smart about negotiating long-term contracts. 

But no matter which project sees commercial fruition first, Ecogen and Renewable Spirits should both enhance the “long-term” future of the Sunshine state’s biomass to energy sector. 

Lead image: Florida sign via Shutterstock

30 Comments

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terry hallinan
terry hallinan
January 24, 2013
"Knocking $40 per ton out of biomass costs, the green way"

http://www.biofuelsdigest.com/bdigest/2013/01/24/knocking-40-per-ton-out-of-biomass-costs-the-green-way/

Actually it is easier than pie to do much better.

The article does a tattle-tale on land taken out of production when food was in great surplus and planted with crops to improve the land only. But let old bioengineers tell their own story:

"Introduced grasses and legumes were planted on 71% of the hectares during the first 11 (annual) signups…As these pasture grasses became more established, number and diversity of plant and wildlife species generally declined over time..."

Far far better than agricultural monoculture or even the multiculture proposed is to let Mother Nature grow the crops and remove the dead waste becoming the lethal greenhouse gas methane as well as the pestilence of invasive species that foul Mother Earth. Makes for abundant fuel the greenest way of all by giving Mother Earth a helping hand rather than a plow in her dirt.

Best, Terry
terry hallinan
terry hallinan
January 24, 2013
fred-linn-151968,

"I think we had best just go on without him Bob."

Bob rejects quite adequate solutions as well while insisting unreliable sometime energy can do the job somehow relying on "peaking" fossil fuels. Bob is certain you need to grow biomass crops instead of mining dumps and landfills and removing pestilence and even utilizing waste heat. Bob rejects what is working as not workable.

Prime example from Chena, Alaska's 400KW geothermal plant:

"Reduced local cost of power from 30¢ to 5¢" [kwhr that may be reduced to 1¢ with current efforts]

See page 22 of presentation @
http://tinyurl.com/a69s3a9

Cliff isn't the only dreamer with his head in the clouds. You might even want to check out Mark Twain's mummy power used for fueling the Trans-Egypt Railroad [see "Innocents Abroad"] from a very long time ago.

Naturally denialists continue to deny.

Best, Terry
Fred Linn
Fred Linn
January 24, 2013
-----" So, you don't have a workable solution for our energy problems, Cliff.

What you have is a hypothesis. "---------

I think cliff's solution is to maintain the status quo.

I think we had best just go on without him Bob.
Bob Wallace
Bob Wallace
January 24, 2013
So, you don't have a workable solution for our energy problems, Cliff.

What you have is a hypothesis.

Generation technology which doesn't exist can't be installed. We have a problem that needs a solution right now. It's too dangerous to wait decades to see if someone can make some sort of a Gen IV reactor work and, if one might work, we have no idea if it would be affordable.

Remember how pebble bed reactors were going to be the solution? And how they simply didn't work out?

One day we might power ourselves with fusion. But not today. We cannot power our grid with technology which does not exist.

Now, can you act the competent engineer and describe how we get off fossil fuels with the tools we have in our box?

Please give us a solution and not criticisms.
terry hallinan
terry hallinan
January 24, 2013
cliff-claven,

Mother Earth provides the only safe nuclear power. It is called geothermal.

Geothermal also has a small footprint besides having a huge cost advantage. You rightly deplore the monstrous footprint and intermittency of the favored wind and solar.

I wonder how many have stood underneath wind turbines and not found the whoosh of the blades discomforting. I admit I didn't find any dead raptors or bats underneath but they still do a job on flying friends.

Cleaning up waste and even utilizing waste heat is not a bad thing either. One could classify it as even a negative footprint.

Thank you for your thoughts even though we have a large item of disagreement.

My son was a Navy nuke. He claims nuclear power could be made ultra safe but it doesn't matter. Humans, being what they are, will always find ways to short circuit safeguards - and do as we have seen over and over.

Best, Terry
Cliff Claven
Cliff Claven
January 24, 2013
Our best energy solution for today is a blend of much higher EROI, much higher power density, much smaller environmental footprint energy sources that Eucalyptus or tidal buoys, whose evidence of those advantages is a much lower price per kWh. The government gets us there by switching off all subsidies and making each power generation source responsible for restoring its own grey water and grey air and grey soil so the external costs are captured. It initially looks a lot like we have today, but moves toward what is stronger and cleaner as the competitive forces are allowed to work. (BTW, that actually has been happening despite government meddling throughout our history). There is a completely new generation of nuclear power not based on uranium or plasma fusion that is going to emerge in the not too distant future. Some think it is LFTR, but I think it is going to be based on LENR. Regardless, once it has achieved the necessary scalability and safety and small environmental footprint and high EROI, its advantages over all other alternatives will naturally migrate us away from fossil fuel and deliver the energy we need without industrializing great swathes of our landscape with monster wind turbines and tidal buoys and solar farms, and the smaller but still ugly footprint of open pit mines and oil wells and offshore platforms. This vision is not to far from what Hubbert wrote in his famous 1956 paper on peak oil that was actually titled "Nuclear Energy and the Fossil Fuels."
terry hallinan
terry hallinan
January 24, 2013
How about an orange peeling car for one viable solution, Fred Linn?

http://greenworkslinks.blogspot.com/2009/06/orange-day-keeps-eco-car-peeling-away.html

The nifty little car designed for Ft. Lauderdale where there are no oranges that anyone knows of and would have required that the peelings have extract squeezed out of them will never be built though it got much attention and has numerous descendants that can be fueled by anything that burns:

http://imageshack.us/a/img353/875/eatr2.jpg

This cartoon drawing of DARPA's EATR (Energetic Autonomous Tactical Robot) has an engine but no brain. Hard for even DARPA to build a brain for the robot scout that would browse on desiccated vegetation. Other military applications of the engine are hidden behind a security wall and a racing car will get to Bonneveille Salt Flats - sometime.

All that is needed is funding when financiers are short of funds because they need to squeeze the citizenry to first pay enormous salaries to needy executives and can squeeze out little for loans.

Despite our friend's difficulty in seeing viable solutions, all he is in need of is glasses like so many others.

Best, Terry
Fred Linn
Fred Linn
January 24, 2013
And what is your viable solution?
Cliff Claven
Cliff Claven
January 22, 2013
If corn ethanol biorefineries have been losing money on every gallon since June 2012 when benefiting from all the active and historical subsidies and infrastructure investments already made in US corn, how does eucalyptus ethanol hope to come out of the blue to compete? Time to dump FPL stock. They obviously don't have any concept of the fuels industry or due diligence for their investors or high-school chemistry or basic economics, and are about to throw away 1.2 billion dollars on an unproven entrepreneur's promise (at least it's not the $900B typo in the article).

BTW, Tidal power density based on proposed projects is < 0.5 W/m2 -- a little better than corn ethanol (0.315 W/m2) but only 1/12th that of PV solar (6 W/m2). A bit higher capacity factor than solar panels, but a whole lot more maintenance of a whole lot more plant in a very harsh environment. Gonna need hundreds and thousands of square miles of those noisy nautical surface and submarine hazards to navigation to make a dent in US electrical power demand. All those anchor chains will be ripping up the bottom day in and day out with every tide and wind shift. More Jacobson and Delucchi fantasy land proposals to industrialize the whole Earth with an energy footprint hundreds of times larger than fossil fuel. Not a viable solution to any of our problems.
terry hallinan
terry hallinan
January 22, 2013
Bob_Wallace,

No arithmetic lesson? Just old news?

>"AltaRock Energy today announced that it has created multiple stimulated zones from a single wellbore at the Newberry Enhanced Geothermal System (EGS) Demonstration site.<

Whoop-te-do. It is not the first time that a single well has created multiple reservoirs and it is not deep geothermal, etc.

Whenever you get done with your arithmetic, do post it. It has to be good for a laugh.

Best, Terry
Bob Wallace
Bob Wallace
January 22, 2013
Oops, I left too soon. Look what just appeared in my email...

"AltaRock Energy today announced that it has created multiple stimulated zones from a single wellbore at the Newberry Enhanced Geothermal System (EGS) Demonstration site. Creating multiple stimulated zones from a single well will dramatically increase the flow and energy output per well for the completed system, which will include soon-to-be-drilled production wells. The overall effect will be to lower the cost of geothermal energy production by as much as 50 percent. This is a major advancement for EGS and has the potential to move geothermal energy from a niche role to a major player in AltaRock's energy portfolio.

...

In the spring of 2013, AltaRock will test for permeability, flow rates, and heat capturing properties of the created reservoirs. After that, production wells will be drilled to intersect the reservoirs about 1,500 feet away from the injection well. Once a connection between wells is made, the well system—one injector and at least one producer—will be flow-tested to determine if the system can support a commercial plant. If it is determined that a commercial plant is feasible, a design will be developed, and construction permits will be submitted to regulators."

http://www.fortmilltimes.com/2013/01/22/2449552/altarock-energy-announces-successful.html

We seem to have moved a step closer to enhanced/hot rock geothermal.

Obviously no guarantee that it will work, but the odds just improved.

I'll re-exit now....
Bob Wallace
Bob Wallace
January 22, 2013
They're gone in Vietnam as well, at least in South Vietnam. And while I didn't use the toilets a lot in the Metro last spring, the one or two times I did I found them quite clean.

Now once more Terry I'm going to have to bid you À la prochaine as you have dug yourself into yet another hole by making claims that simply sound incorrect and you refuse to do what a reasonable discussant should do and bring facts to back your position.

It's a waste of time trying to have a reasoned discussion with someone who apparently simply makes things up.
terry hallinan
terry hallinan
January 22, 2013
Bob_Wallace,

I said nothing about the sidewalk open air pissoirs in France that were quite common in Vietnam. I mentioned the ultimate beast in whatever they call the large transportation network in Paris. You and your wife couldn't have been there or Hercules cleaned the human stable. Or you have no sense of smell from what I have been told. You don't have to go to Nepal or Uzbekistan or wherever to find primitive toilets. Go to any large outdoor antique market for a week and you are likely to want to return to Nepal.

There are no reliable figures for what has not been done nor even attempted on a large scale because of fixation on dreamy technology like deep, deep EGS.

While the ivory tower types at MIT were dreaming of what might be in some long distant future, a graduate student did a study of low temperature geothermal power at the [well-named] Warm Springs Indian Reservation. It was ignored of course but considerably more worthy. I bet you could google it - but won't.

A large geothermal complex in New Mexico [where EGS began long, long ago] that grows roses and tilapia hatchlings is finally about to generate power.

http://tinyurl.com/b58edf9

Growing alligators commercially in Idaho and bananas in Iceland or tropical fish in New Mexico is or keeping the Ice Museum in Chena frozen in summer is no trick at all and now neither is generating power with modern technology.

Where is such geothermal available?

Most anyplace on planet earth.

As to power from waste:

You can add up all the energy available from sewage and solid waste and various weeds and forest tinder and pests and maybe include the rabbits the Vikings in Sweden used for heating [only a Viking would take on PETA] and throw in waste heat yourself but it is a fool's errand.

When do we see your arithmetic homework? I bet it's classy.

Best, Terry
Bob Wallace
Bob Wallace
January 22, 2013
Terry, no one loves stinky, dirty toilets, but I'll have to say that my wife is a trooper. She likes going interesting places and sometimes that means that you leave behind the comforts we normally expect. Our first trip to Nepal required that we ride in the back of a dump truck, along with crates of chickens and a half-load of hay in order to get to one particularly scenic point. We had to spend the night in what had been, at one time the family barn.

I was in Paris less than a year ago. I can assure you that the sidewalk pissotieres of old are no more. The present sidewalk toilets are technological marvels which clean themselves after each use.

But, you digress. Yet again.

Are you afraid that if you research the amount of biomass, geothermal, and tidal available you'll come up short and have to manger à vol d'?
terry hallinan
terry hallinan
January 22, 2013
Bob Wallace,

"Terry, I've been many, many remote places many times. The toilets you describe would be a step up in what some of the rest of the world provides for our amusement."

Does your wife also think stinky, sticky, busted toilets are also for her amusement? She would perhaps love the Paris metro toilets then but I will only ever read about the reported overwhelming stench.

Give you numbers? You haven't even provided your arithmetic homework while announcing you love stinky, sticky, busted toilets in the dark but know all about all that renewable stuff, whatever it is. I prefer a bush in an open field to a stinky, sticky, dark toilet and real discussion rather than assurance you know all there is to know but won't tell.

Just my druthers.

Best, Terry
Bob Wallace
Bob Wallace
January 22, 2013
Terry, I've been many, many remote places many times. The toilets you describe would be a step up in what some of the rest of the world provides for our amusement.

Your taking a trip to see a geothermal plant does not give the right to skip doing the research to back up your claims.

Show us some data.

How much electricity might the US/the world reasonably produce from biomass? For tidal? For geothermal?

Look up some numbers please, don't just snatch some words from your hinter-regions.
terry hallinan
terry hallinan
January 22, 2013
Bob Wallace (Continued),

My wife and I were invited to Nicaragua to look at development of a major geothermal power project. It was an invitation that excited me but I showed my wife a description of an airport bathroom in the north that was more frightening than the machete-wielding gangs looking for gringos in drug-infested region. Another woman described a bathroom with a busted toilet with overwhelming stench with the lights out and everything she touched was sticky.

Near the power plant, tourists were advised to pay little kids to guide them through the mudpots and fumaroles - presumably so the little kids would fall in first. That scotched that deal for her though we would have had no trouble if we visited the head engineer who drove to the plant from Costa Rica.

Later the whole crew was fired by money men who knew nothing about the technology led by an engineer from Ormat, of all things, who nearly bankrupted the company and now proffers advice on the internet about geothermal. Costs have tripled but somehow the company is still alive - barely.

But you know all about this stuff.

Yeah. Right. Sure you do.

Best, Terry
terry hallinan
terry hallinan
January 22, 2013
Bob_Wallace,

"Terry, I'm well up to date on tidal, wave, biofuel and geothermal.

I also have a basic understanding of their limits."

Sure you do. You just have trouble expressing yourself. LOL!

You don't even bother with biomass that is quite different from biofuel.

The limitations are in your head, sir.

I have already said I am not real big on tidal power but it is at least semi-baseload unlike your favorite weaklings that get all the hype and lion's share of funding.

All the world's knowledge is not contained in the best promotions on the internet. I was taking my life in my hands looking at the The Geysers development over 50 years ago and have done a bit of the same in old age.

If you don't know what the roads are like in the Mayacama Mountains and meeting a semi on a hairpin turn where one of us has to back up, there is no point in trying to tell you.

I have been graced with the opportunity to speak to people doing real things instead of just promoters pushing frivolity and not at some conference where the partying is the main thing.

Continued
Bob Wallace
Bob Wallace
January 22, 2013
Terry, I'm well up to date on tidal, wave, biofuel and geothermal.

I also have a basic understanding of their limits.

I really don't think you do.

Do this, Terry. Spend some time and dig up some reliable data on how much is available. I've already given you some leads on biofuel in this thread.

There's all sorts of good information that can be found via searches. For example I found this very quickly -

"Tidal stream energy is as of yet a largely untapped resource with no commercial size application, although some are very close. According to a DTI report, the world's accessible tidal stream resources are around 90GW, representing 3% of the total tidal stream energy. That's less than the globally installed wind capacity in 2010. The best sites can be found in Korea, UK and North America. In fact, in the UK alone there is potential for 5 - 16GW that could account for up to 15% of the UK's electricity."

http://www.greenrhinoenergy.com/renewable/marine/tidal_stream.php

Now one would need to check multiple sources to see if there is widespread agreement with this number or whether something larger or smaller is more likely the case. But if it does hold then we know that the UK, which has a relatively large tidal resource, could get only 15% of its electricity from tidal.

Nepal and Austria could get none.
terry hallinan
terry hallinan
January 22, 2013
Bob_Wallace,

"Terry, you really should learn to do simple arithmetic."

Math was a co-major in college. I believe I can handle arithmetic quite well if you show me some of your homework.

I won't ask you for your education and experience because I have no intention of embarrassing you more than you do yourself.

>The Atlantic ocean off Cornwall and the west coast of Scotland show the greatest promise for generating electricity from the waves that crash around the British Isles, according to new research.

The regions came top in a report which maps, for the first time, the sites around the UK with the most potential for wave power. Some of the highest waves, in the Rockall Trough to the west of Scotland, measure up to 29m from crest to trough.

Rows of wave "farms" up to 1,000km long facing the Atlantic could generate around 11% of the UK's current power generation, the Carbon Trust analysis suggests. While the theoretical resource is as high as 18GW, around 10GW of capacity is more realistic given practical and economic constraints, it said.

Stephen Wyatt, the report's author, said: "The promise is huge. The UK has become the world's proving ground for wave and tidal energy. The potential home market for wave power while significant is even greater abroad. The International Energy Agency have estimated a global market of up to 200GW of marine power by 2050.<

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/oct/17/cornwall-scotland-uk-wave-power

Theory is fine but the proof is in the doing. An autonomous power buoy off the coast of New Jersey has been generating power for 15 years through tsunamis, hurricanes and now hopefully it has survived a superstorm.

Hadn't heard had you?

Best, Terry
terry hallinan
terry hallinan
January 22, 2013
Bob,

"If you were to take every gram of crops produced anywhere in the world..."

I didn't even mention crops. I mentioned invasive pestilence that grows in great abundance without encouragement.

It can help if you concentrate rather than repeating dreary disinformation that is not pertinent.

I am certain you produce a great deal of biomass and gaseous effusions, as we all do, that would be great for producing energy and reduce your own burden on the environment.

Paying attention can produce huge dividends in avoiding repetitious wasted effort as well.

Best, Terry
Bob Wallace
Bob Wallace
January 22, 2013
"If you were to take every gram of crops produced anywhere in the world for all purposes — and that includes every grape, every ton of wheat, every ton of soybeans and corn — and you were to use that for biofuels and essentially stop eating, those crops would produce about 14 percent of world energy," says Timothy Searchinger, an associate research scholar at Princeton University.

G. Philip Robertson and colleagues at Michigan State University's Kellogg Biological Station have been looking at plants that don't require farm fields.

"First, we discovered that the grasses and flowers that take over fields once you stop farming produce a fair amount of biomass, especially if you provide them a little bit of fertilizer," Robertson says.

Robertson and his colleagues surveyed the Midwest acre by acre and identified 27 million acres of marginal farmland where these plants could grow, and where the acreage falls into a compact enough area that someone might want to build a refinery to produce biofuels.

They figured that it would become too expensive to transport this heavy and bulky plant material more than 50 miles, from field to refinery.

"At the end of the day, we discovered we could produce enough biomass to supply 30 or so of these potential biorefineries," Robertson says.

The 27 million acres identified in the latest study would provide less than 0.5 percent of (US) national energy demand,

http://www.npr.org/2013/01/16/169538570/could-some-midwest-land-support-new-biofuel-refineries

Around 200 million tonnes of waste is produced in UK every year which is capable of producing 4% of the total UK's electricity and water needs.

http://s.tt/1yFiH

Not included is the possibility of algae grown on land which is of even poorer quality. But this is not a proven energy source, simply one of several hypotheticals.

Biofuel can be a niche player, but with increasing numbers of people to be fed, biofuel will likely be only a small niche player.
Bob Wallace
Bob Wallace
January 22, 2013
"Great indeed you have discovered baseload renewable energy and in power sources with more muscle than air and star beams"

Terry, you really should learn to do simple arithmetic. The amount of energy that comes from the Sun vastly overwhelms other physical forces we might harness to meet our clean energy needs.

Tidal and wave are potential players. But they don't even start to meed the world's energy needs. They, like wet rock geothermal are location limited.

--

Terry, you are on the side of the good guys. You realize that we need to get off fossil fuels very quickly in order to avoid worst case climate change. But you degrade your standing as a serious person when you post things like -

"regulators beholden to the Madison Avenue mythology of solar and wind power"
terry hallinan
terry hallinan
January 22, 2013
Hi Bob_Wallace,

"Florida needs to be dropping some tidal generators into the Gulf Stream. There's major 24/365 potential just waiting to be harvested right off the beach."

Great indeed you have discovered baseload renewable energy and in power sources with more muscle than air and star beams but tidal power remains rather tricky.

Wave power is intermittent but "on" far more than solar and wind and best of all is where most of the people are. This terribly neglected power source is fast coming on stream and has commercial applications available today. Cost is expected to be much less than the vastly over-promoted inferior alternatives but, as usual, has to fight wars with regulators beholden to the Madison Avenue mythology of solar and wind power.

Best, Terry
terry hallinan
terry hallinan
January 22, 2013
Has nobody told FPL about kudzu, the plant that ate the South?

Nobody has to grow kudzu. It grows itself and wouldn't be missed at all when it's gone.

You can't just chip and burn kudzu but you could harvest and disintegrate kudzu at least as easily as the Minnesota Alfalfa Farmers Co-Op are doing with alfalfa already and you don't have to separate the food quality parts for feed pellets.

If it's trees you want, what better than the terrible pest melaleuca planted in Florida to dry up the Everglades. Assuming you would rather the Everglades were not dried up and do not need impenetrable forests that feed no native animal life but harbor pests like lobate lac scale:

>Another reason to remove melaleuca from your
property is that the tree harbors lobate lac scale.
This tiny insect, first found in Florida in 1999 and
native to India, attacks over 200 species of trees
and shrubs in this state. The effects of this insect
are potentially devastating to many ornamental
and fruit-producing trees and to natural communi-
ties. Melaleuca trees can act as a reservoir for this
insect, allowing the scale to infest surrounding
trees<

http://tinyurl.com/aaxj79k

Oh yeah, melaleuca trees with all their natural oils feed wildfires like no other tree while threatening to exterminate endangered species.

Why plant any other biomass when volunteers are so plentiful and clearing them is so good for the environment?

Best, Terry
terry bowring
terry bowring
January 22, 2013
Glad to hear Eucalypts grow well in Florida. In Australia we too have a fast growing tree called the mallee Eucalypt. It grows in dry conditions of 125 mm pa and at 550mm pa it will yield at the rate of 10 drytonne/ha/pa. When coppiced the tree will return to full height in 3 yrs from a bare stem. If anyone is interested we have developed special harvesters for this multi stemmed tree and also have long term plans for renewable fuels and energy from harvested biomass.

terry bowring
t.b.a@bigpond.com
Mark Smolinski
Mark Smolinski
January 15, 2013
Yes, the right plants make for remarkable renewable energy. I have residences in two places. In NY, the same thing is being done with willow trees. In FL, I have an orchid tree in my back yard that was planted as a 1-2 inch yearling in 1997 when the house was built. The trunk was approximately a foot in diameter when Hurricane Charley broke it in half in 2004, just 7 years later. The tree was sawed down to a stump. After the hurricane, I watched the tree regenerate from that stump and chose one sprig to become my new tree. After 8 years, I again have a tree whose trunk is over a foot in diameter. I have not fertilized it or cared for it in any way. Its wood could easily be harvested for fuel- and be replaced again, with zero energy consumption in another several years. You cannot get any more renewable than this!
(The irony is that FL has since banned the tree from being planted, probably due to this type of 'invasive' growth; If orchid trees were again sanctioned, it could add to the available biomass options)
Bob Wallace
Bob Wallace
January 13, 2013
Growing trees for fuel can be sustainable in the right conditions.

If the trees can be grown with no supplemental water or fertilizer, in places where soil erosion is not a problem and the ash returned to the soil then we should be able to grow in a sustainable manner.

We should also consider whether the land might be better used for food production.

Do the harvesting and hauling with electricity.

If there is a reasonable positive EROEI (energy returned on energy invested) ratio then we could get some of our energy this way.

I suspect that once we get storage at a better price wind + solar + storage would be a cheaper alternative.
Randy Krillion
Randy Krillion
January 13, 2013
Do we need to spend resources to develop methods to grow and harvest trees for fuel? This is not a sustainable method of generating energy.
Bob Wallace
Bob Wallace
January 11, 2013
Florida needs to be dropping some tidal generators into the Gulf Stream. There's major 24/365 potential just waiting to be harvested right off the beach.

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Bruce Dorminey

Bruce Dorminey

Bruce Dorminey is an award-winning science journalist who is a former Hong Kong bureau chief for Aviation Week & Space Technology magazine and a former Paris-based technology correspondent for the Financial Times newspaper. However, he...
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