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Don't Miss The Great Solar Debate: Where Does the Global Solar Industry Stand? Click Here to Register! ×

What's Profit Got To Do, Got To Do with It?

Paula Mints, Navigant Consulting
April 27, 2012  |  39 Comments

As the losses add up for leading PV industry manufacturers, and as manufacturing capacities are idled, it is important to remember that the current correction taking place the PV industry could not necessarily have been avoided. But the severity of the current climate may have been mitigated and the landing made softer if new entrants and participants had paid attention to, and learned from, PV industry history. Manufacturers in China, currently dominating industry demand at 46 percent, might have been more circumspect with capacity growth had they understood that incentives are temporary.

If officials took the time to study PV industry behavior — like an anthropologist studies civilizations — and then designed incentives, they might have developed more cautious programs with controls to stop overbuilding.  Concerning the construction of incentives, dams provide a reasonable analogy: Incentives need to be designed and constructed like a good dam with solid floodgates and levees to control the flow of incentive money. In this regard, we must avoid situations where the market runs amok and doors are slammed shut before the resulting flood devastates everyone and everything around it.

It is important to remember and understand PV industry history because the good times will come again, and when they do, these lessons might help mitigate irrational optimism and curb overcapacity.  Some things to keep in mind are:

  1. Incentives and subsidies for solar are designed to time out.
  2. Industry behavior has evolved in a start/stop incentive environment so the basic economic supply/demand principles do not necessarily apply and the resulting market behavior is not orderly.
  3. PV technologies (thin film and crystalline) all follow the twin paths of increasing efficiency and decreasing manufacturing cost. Changes are incremental, that is, there is likely no black swan technological change that will swoop in and change the fundamentals overnight. More than likely, the black swan technology has been in a university lab for years waiting to hatch, and has years to go before it does.
  4. Yes, the point is the system, but balance of systems technologies need an equal focus in terms of cost and efficiency improvement.
  5. Yes, again, the point is the system and installation practices should continue to become more efficient — while labor costs increase, time to install can decrease.

Revenues

The top ten manufacturers for 2011 may have sold the most technology, but most, if not all, suffered losses.  Examples are Suntech, $633-million loss, JA Solar, $67-million loss, Yingli, $510-million loss, Trina Solar, $38-million loss, and Canadian Solar, $91-million loss.  These companies serve as examples of many other companies, some of which failed in 2011 and early 2012.  In 2011, shipments of technology to the first buyer grew by 35 percent, from 17.4-GWp in 2010, to 23.6-GWp in 2011.  In contrast, technology revenues increased by 4 percent in 2011, to $32.2-billion, from $31.1-billion in 2010.  The low price for technology was the reason for flat revenues in 2011.  Price pressure continues in 2012, which continues the margin pressure and leads manufacturers to idle current capacity and cancel building plans.  Figure 1 presents PV technology revenues to the first buyer from 2001 through 2011, with revenue forecast to 2016. 

Figure 1: PV Cell/Module Revenues, 2001 - 2016

Capacity

Global capacity increased by a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 61 percent, with shipments increasing by a CAGR of 64 percent over the most recent five-year period, 2006-2011. Figure 2 displays a picture of industry shipment and capacity growth from 2001 through 2011, along with capacity utilization information and an estimate of capacity in 2012.  The shipment data in Figure 2 is based on an accelerated estimate.  Given current capacity reductions, it is expected that capacity will increase only slightly in 2012, unless, of course, a robust incentive appears that stimulates significant activity.   Capacity utilization numbers appear near each year’s shipment bar in Figure 2.

Figure 2: PV Industry Manufacturing Capacity, Shipments and Utilization

Recovery

It is currently in vogue to cast aspersions on the PV industry as too expensive along with suggesting that it has not fulfilled its promise.  Critique of this type is a fad, and this too will pass.  From 2004 through 2010 hype surrounding the industry was prevalent – and hype is just as dangerous as harsh criticism.  Another history lesson and apt critique: the bigger you are, the harder you fall. PV, along with the other solar technologies, reliably and cleanly generates electricity with minimal running costs for at least 20 years after it is installed — but in reality, even longer. There are PV systems still in operation after 30 years.  Solar needs to better manage expectations, but make no mistake — it is one of the technologies of the future. The day will come when no one remembers that there was an argument about this — that day is far off, but it will come. 

Image: Martin D. Vonka via Shutterstock

39 Comments

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James Desmond
James Desmond
June 26, 2012
Right. And the question is, why? I asked the EMC's head and he said 'because [my power] is too variable.' A grid operator friend tells me that's BS. Meanwhile, why is New York dumping big bucks into utility scale solar: http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2012/06/solar-in-new-york-its-strategy-to-make-solar-shine. I have a section on variability here, and I would welcome more research on it, because Brown Power Establishment guys keep citing variability as a reason for nixing Solar PV: https://sites.google.com/site/freemarketsolarpower/home/electricity-storage/solar-power-s-variability-problem
Osha Davidson
Osha Davidson
June 26, 2012
Yep, I read those posts. EMC doesn't seem to be embracing distributed renewable power.
James Desmond
James Desmond
June 26, 2012
phoenix sun: I'm the only one in my electric membership cooperative's (EMC's) zone (find 'Gillis Springs' on Google Earth), about 85 miles inland from Savannah, GA. It took me over a year to get them to play ball with me, I had to remind them that the law required it. I detailed my experiences here: https://sites.google.com/site/gridtiedsolarpv/. My EMC at first paid me $.07/KWH but then, about a year later, raised it to $.08 (never said why). They at first imposed a special $12.50/month 'admin fee,' but lately it's disappeared from my bill (I'm not complaining). I'm guessing if a bunch of others teed up systems like mine there would be some more barriers. Georgia law does impose caps, but it's in the aggregate -- my EMC can say no after a certain number of customers go solar. Otherwise, I can sell them all that my 10KW array can produce, but I can't grid-tie more than 10KW or they could say no (it's 10KW per "residence," so I could split my farm in two and build a small cottage if I wanted to run another 10KW on the other side of it, ground mount arrays are OK, too). I've detailed that in that site I've just given you. Many states have similar 'turf protecting' laws.
Osha Davidson
Osha Davidson
June 26, 2012
Thanks for the reply, Free-Marketeer. I hadn't realized that Georgia had a pay-above-consumption program. They're certainly not pushing it -- I read (in your blog) that you were the first person to sell PV power to your utility. Do you know if there are others? In Arizona, individual producers are only paid for up to 125% of their total connected load. The caps, extra fees and the bureaucratic gauntlet likely discourage many folks who would like to do what you're doing.
James Desmond
James Desmond
June 26, 2012
kfenske: We're in agreement. "If it makes better economic sense" -- that's up to each of us to decide. Made sense for me to "overproduce" given my circumstances and the tax credits then available.
James Desmond
James Desmond
June 26, 2012
kfenske: My 10KW system is a "central inverter solution" and sure, hire someone who can wire that up: https://picasaweb.google.com/115162333107690986192/A54KWHDay. But I'm against regulation REQUIRING me to do so. I put my system up in a no-zoning, no code, no NOTHING rural Georgia county. I had the freedom to do what I wanted and thus was spared up to $5000 in "permitting" costs. I built ABOVE code, as I did my building, but that was my choice -- just as it's my choice when I buy an A-C system or electric hot water heater from Home Depot (the cashier doesn't stop me and demand to see permits, a license, etc.). Solar PV is simply NOT that hard to do, and I'm in favor making it as cheap and E-Z to do as possible. Country folk find a way....
Ken Fenske
Ken Fenske
June 26, 2012
James, This is similar to my experience. I get about half the amount of money for excess production as I do for replacement production. My point is that with that huge difference it makes much better economic sense to replace usage than to overproduce.
James Desmond
James Desmond
June 26, 2012
kfenske & phoenix sun: I get paid $.08 KWH for all that I feed into the grid and save $.13 KWH for all that I self-consume. Yes, I make money every month, see my calculations here: https://sites.google.com/site/freemarketsolarpower/home/my-open-letter-to-mage-solar. Meanwhile, I say to each his own on how much capacity to install. If you want to 'overbuild' and make money on it, do so. If not, then don't. I do NOT favor regulators telling Joe Six Pack what to do. Everyone can do their own math and make their own economic decisions. Now, how much the reverse-meter rate should be -- THAT's open to debate since overpaying me for my power is a de facto tax on my fellow ratepayers. I've never advocated inflated European rates, though many do. In that regard, here's some info on Net Metering and Feed-In-Tariffs (FITS): For FITS: https://sites.google.com/site/freemarketsolarpower/home/feed-in-tariffs. For Net Metering: https://sites.google.com/site/gridtiedsolarpv/home/net-metering-defined. Please share with me any sources you find on what's a fair reverse-meter rate. Many say peak-load pricing's fair, I guess that makes sense to me. Don't know about including a value for spared-pollution.
James Desmond
James Desmond
June 26, 2012
kfenske -- look here: https://sites.google.com/site/freemarketsolarpower/a-look-at/best-known-10kw-grid-package-deals. It's the May 5, 2012 entry If that's not right tell me and I'll fix it.
Ken Fenske
Ken Fenske
June 25, 2012
To Free-Marketer, I looked up your site but I didn't see a link to my kit http://www.anapode.com/products/10000w_10kw_Complete_Solar_Panel_Module_Kit_DIY on the site as you mentioned. I certainly saw the super cheap one for 6770 but there's got be be some concern on that one. It's sold to you where it is in China FOB. Few people can navigate the paperwork necessary to get it from China to them on a boat, through the import process and now, also pay the tariffs on the panels. I'd also have concerns for the buyer in that any warranties are likely to be short and worthless to try to use. Finally, this is a central inverter solution so out of the reach of Joe Sixpack due to complexity and danger.
Ken Fenske
Ken Fenske
June 25, 2012
I received a check for $71 from my utility in May for my excess production. Be warned though, they pay you for generation only which where I am is $.07/kwh. When I'm spinning my meter backwards I'm making $.135/kwh because it is rolling back generation, transmission & distribution. Therefore, the most financially sensible amount of solar to produce is just what you use and no more.
Osha Davidson
Osha Davidson
June 25, 2012
Free-Marketer, Very interesting thread. From your post #1: "Hence, I operate a positive-energy home (makes me money every month)." Do you actually make money every month, i.e., can you sell power to your utility as they do in Germany, or do you just get to zero-out your power bill?
James Desmond
James Desmond
May 5, 2012
Here are photos of my array and farm:

https://picasaweb.google.com/115162333107690986192
James Desmond
James Desmond
May 5, 2012
kfenske & oltoboy:

$1/watt and cost-feasible electricity storage may never happen, that's true. I'm just telling you what will work and what won't. Joe Six Pack's not going to find the money to erect a Solar PV system on his roof or in his backyard without a 7-year payback cycle (about the longest length of a car/truck loan/lease).

Bribing him to overpay (via subsidies at OUR expense) ain't the way to go. Removing permitting costs (see my DIY note above), eliminating trade barriers to 'donated Chinese labor' Solar PV, and making it plug-and-play simple to weekend-install his own system (even better, store and use his own energy) IS the way to go.

Meanwhile, budding inventors have a whole new, low-cost investment channel to tap (kickstarter.com, etc.), as well as crowdsourcing for free research. I have an example here:https://sites.google.com/site/freemarketsolarpower/home/a-crowdsource-invitation

Never in history has the innovation field thus been so fertile. It is for simple consumers like me to therefore illuminate what will sell and what won't, and thus guide entrepreneurial inventors accordingly. Indeed, I'm doing more than that; I've created a 'showroom' site for low-cost Solar PV and have written about and documented the results.

I say get the politicians and their bureaucrats out of the way and let this sector's Gates-wannabes flourish, then stand back and let Solar PV take off. I invite all who are interested to contact me though JamesChristopherDesmond.com to visit my positive energy farm and inspect Central Georgia's only positive energy home built for LESS than the cost of a conventional, negative-energy home.

Special note to kfenske -- When I started my 'Free Market' site I urged precisely the company you now operate -- bring commodity-level Solar PV 'kit' pricing to Joe Six Pack. I applaud your efforts and have plugged your site into mine: https://sites.google.com/site/freemarketsolarpower/a-look-at/best-known-10kw-grid-package-deals
James Desmond
James Desmond
May 5, 2012
(Cont'd from last post)

Nanny Governmenteers will rail against my DIY advocacy, citing safety concerns. Of course, the same argument can be made for outlawing small cars and requiring beefier cars because it's undisputable that more people die in small-car crashes than in big guzzlers. We accept risk for higher rewards, and we are free to make those choices.

For that matter, I had my system double-inspected (by a nuclear power plant engineer and my utility's top electrician), and I built it above code, as is my practice with everything I do (adds market value, for that matter). Inspectors in my area, in that regard, foment only false confidence and validate the maxim that those who can't teach, and those who can't teach inspect. I therefore assist others in DIY in my area, and that includes overcoming legal/regulatory obstacles.

I say society should accept more risk for more green power, even at the claimed lower-safety price, because plenty more die from brown-power's pollution than the occasional homeowner who hurts himself with DIY (seriously, does the Home Depot cashier stop you when you buy an electric water heater for a DIY install and demand proof that you're going to have only a "licensed plumber" install it?).
James Desmond
James Desmond
May 5, 2012
Anonymous: Invective is a poor substitute for analysis. Of course electricity storage is a 'recycled' idea. So what? I'm just telling you what works. I've put my money where my mouth is and have built a 10KW positive energy, near-zero-maintenance home for LESS than the cost of a conventional, negative-energy home. I can show anyone real, documented data. Can you?

I'm also a simple consumer, and thus have standing and reason to conclude what will work at the mass-consumer level: $1/watt systems with $2,000/unit electricity storage.

Others say $1/watt is impossible, but remember what Xerox and other executives said in passing off the opportunity to develop a PC for everyone (Xerox basically gave away its Graphical User Interface; IBM failed to outright buy a commonly used operating system).

By the way, I'm in the business of making things happen. With simple household-handyman skills, I built what I claim to be the lowest cost 10KW system in America. I chose a no-permit jurisdiction (permitting costs up to $5000 and more per system in many areas) and went head-to-head with my local utility to connect my array to its grid at a fair reverse-meter rate. You can see my efforts at JamesChristopherDesmond.com

There you'll also find that the Do It Yourself (DIY) market will flourish first (the only chance of getting a system up for $1/watt). My DIY model skirts costly regulation (requiring you to hire 'solar installers' and pricey electricians) by having the OWNER do his own work and hire, as 'casual labor,' guys like I hired to do the discrete parts (I paid a smart friend $3000 to mount the inverters, do the wiring, and set the set-screws, then I and my buds put the rest together, like an erector set, and it was pretty easy, I otherwise had no trade skills).

(Cont'd next post)
James Desmond
James Desmond
May 5, 2012
Sun2Energy -- Your analysis is dead-on, and tracks my research and analysis here: JamesChristopherDesmond.com (click on 'Free Market Solar Power'). My $35,000, 10KW system went up on 10/2/10 and 65% of it was subsidized by the federal and state taxpayers. Even at that (net $14,000 cost to me), the system (at $.07/KWH reverse meter credit) is making/saving me $1000/year.

Will the mass-consumer settle for a 14-year payback? Maybe, especially if he adds the increased equity value to his home into the equation. At $1/watt it's 10 years less that equity step-up -- an offer no savvy homeowner could refuse. Even better if he can store and use his own energy (saved retail electricity price). Sure, those prices may never happen, but I paid $2600 for a used PC in 1981 and $260 for one many times more powerful in 2010.

It is of course outrageous to subsidize brown power, but subsidizing green is ultimately a fool's errand (creates bubble-bust cycles and Solyndra-corruption, as noted in my 'Free Market' piece). Just because brown-power bribologists corrupted Congress for goodies doesn't mean two rights make a wrong.

Still, the subsidies have in no small part fomented a critical mass of ramped-up Solar PV production, and over 1 billion off-grid folks (much of Africa) are now forming a free market for consuming lowered cost (thanks to mostly Chinese and German gov't subsidies) Solar PV because it's now cheaper than liquid-fuel (diesel, kerosene) energy. So, I'm of two minds on the whole idea of subsidies.

At my site I'm advocating an X-Prize for the electricity storage system I envision. That's a form of performance-based subsidy that I discuss in my site's 'If We Must Have Subsidies' subpage.

Anyway, if subsidies (having birthed a mass-market sector) were tapered down now and the free market was allowed to flourish, we might see some substantial positive results planet-wide here. I cite 'Africa' and related examples in my "Free Market" JCD.com piece.
Johan Buys
Johan Buys
May 1, 2012
Some subsidies are non-cash. Ask an insurer what the insurance for NG fracking outfit would be if Dick Cheney had not arranged exemption from the Clean Water Act... Priceless!

Back to the article, agree that this too shall pass, surplus capacity will be matched by demand soon. Even a tiny country like South Africa is rolling out nearly 4GW in couple of large 25c/kwh FIT farms.

But forget $1/watt: PV will not survive below $1.25
BaBa Gates
BaBa Gates
May 1, 2012
GreenSunNJ
You are right on. We do installs in California and Hawaii in each case we have more manhours in paper work than in actual installs. SCE, PG&E, SDG&E and HECO all have different standards and paper work. Each AHJ uses different dated NEC books. Additionally it is the standard for most installers to give the customer credit for the rebates which we then collect from the IOU at often take six months.

We sell standard package systems sized in 0.5 kW increments so that all the designs are standardized but still every application for permit is treated as new design even though the AHJ has seen our system designs a 100 times before. Each IOU has their pet standard also that often conflict with the AHJ.

As you all know I rail against subsidies because they in reality drive up costs, distort markets and promote bureauracy.
We sell 70 plus systems a month so I see first hand what does and does not work. Believe when I say that our industry does not need subsidies to survive. Subsidies are distorting our market and are impediment to success. Those that critize fossil fuel the subsidies they get do so because they believe fossil subsidies distort that market,the same is true for renewable energy subsidies distort our market as well.

The best way to drive renewable energy is to get governmemt out of the way and free market will sort out the rest.

That said there is a place for government in R&D but not when the government is picking winners and losers, or should I say loser only since they have shown they have a good eye for losers.

Some on this blog have suggested a monetary award for developments that meet goals, that is a involvement of government we should support. Incentives are at the core economic development not penalizing your competitor.
ANONYMOUS
May 1, 2012
Well said GreenSunNJ.
Glen Koedding
Glen Koedding
May 1, 2012
Thanks for putting together a very well through out article! I would like to ask that Renewable Energy World consider detailed paper on a subcategory of what you classified as Labor Costs --- "Yes, again, the point is the system and installation practices should continue to become more efficient — while labor costs increase, time to install can decrease." A great way to cut down in labor costs is to cut down on paperwork, bureaucracy and inconsistent interpretations of code by local inspectors.

Here in New Jersey, we are suffering from the wild west of the AHJ... each of whom have their own pet peeves, interpretations of code, etc... As a Solar Installation firm, we spend more time processing permits (and calling to check in them), sitting around waiting for inspectors to show up sometime between 9am and 3pm, and making adjustments to installations (because an inspector in township "X" likes to see you do "Y" even though the way you did it is aligned with the code and you have done it a hundred times).

Then we can add insult to injury --- have you ever tried to process an interconnection application in New Jersey? talk about total inconsistency across the electric suppliers!
Will Deliver
Will Deliver
May 1, 2012
@Sun2Energy; Your comment #14 is bull! Fossil fuels have been getting millions in subsidies for 100 years. Last year the oil industry received $4 Billion in subsidies! The developing countries will use the least expensive, most available energy. As a developed nation we can bring the cost of renewable energy down so undeveloped nations can more afford it too.
Elctrical storage is expensive, but in northern climates where heating is a big expense, thermal storage is an economic answer. Solar thermal heat collectors can be designed to store the heat energy in water tanks or rock storage. This is what 'Free-Marketeer's Clay Mass heating-cooling effect' is all about. When you can average temperatures inside your home using 'thermal mass', you need less energy from outside.
ANONYMOUS
May 1, 2012
Check you facts on your own time since they are all wrong. I kill 10X the solar projects I "approve".
"The facts are that renewables already have huge tax and subsidy advantages that real working people and their children will be paying for for the rest of their lifes"--ITC ends in 2016 you moron. Unless you know the world is coming to an end then, your statement is a joke.
BaBa Gates
BaBa Gates
May 1, 2012
Anonymous
Go ahead show me where I am wrong. I know you have a product you try to sale on the blog and it hurts to see the truth but I have open mind so support what you have to say with complete facts not just feel good hype.
The facts are that renewables already have huge tax and subsidy advantages that real working people and their children will be paying for for the rest of their lifes.
I support renewable energy it is the future but I live in the real world where only commerically viable businesses survive long term.
Solar PV needs no subsidies when competing with oil. Most of the developing world use oil for power in the form of diesel generators with no polution control. If we focus our industry in these areas we would have the most effect on the environment and people.
Think like an economist,subsidies to replace the sources of energy in the USA are not the best use of our dollar is my point.
ANONYMOUS
May 1, 2012
Sun2Energy-
Perhaps the most one sided piece of crap I have read in a while. Your math and facts are completely inaccurate. I won't waste my time correcting your figures since they are similar to what a small child could come up with after reading a children's book on energy.
BaBa Gates
BaBa Gates
May 1, 2012
kwdavis
Coal, NG and solar get the same subsidy via the federal tax code for investment write offs. Solar PV gets a added 30% via the tax credit at the federal level. Most states have a added tax credit, FIT or grants equal to approx. 35%. In addition the utilities have to give renewable energy sources free access to the grid which coal and NG do not get. Adding up all the incentives renewables gets, that fossil fuels do not get, then renewables are subsidized an additional 65%+ over conentional energy sources.
The facts are that renewable energy sources have a huge advantage over fossil fuels when it comes to subsidies and still can not compete in most markets today.
These subsidies are paid by real people everyday. If you pay income taxes you are subsidizing renewables and if you pay no taxes these subsidies are embeded in every product or service you buy.
If all subsidies were removed from all energy sources renewables would die and coal and NG would survive.
ANONYMOUS
May 1, 2012
Freemarketer-
You barely scratch the surface regarding solar and yet you think you have the "answer"--more and more that appears to be the American way. The "storage" theory is recycled info and not the answer you portray it to be.
ANONYMOUS
May 1, 2012
Kfenske-
"I was excited about the Westinghouse Solar system for a while and I still think it's a great idea."
It wasn't an idea that Westinghouse thought of. Attaching a micro inverter to a PV module is not a "proprietary" product as Westinghouse would want people to believe. They simply buy equipment and contract manufacture the two pieces (module and inverter) together and slap a Westinghouse sticker on that Chinese PV module/micro inverter combo and mark it up a lot--thus you pay a "Cadillac" price.
Buyer beware.
Ken Fenske
Ken Fenske
May 1, 2012
kvdavis,
I was excited about the Westinghouse Solar system for a while and I still think it's a great idea. I spent a long time talking to them at SPI Dallas last fall. The problem is that they are charging Cadillac prices for their system, don't believe their ads. I've actually priced out several actual systems with them and the PPW is pretty high. The technology is good though.
Kimberly Davis
Kimberly Davis
May 1, 2012
Re: solar incentives - can anyone recommend a credible study evaluating subsidies for coal and natural gas (I omit petroleum because until we get EV penetration, it is not comparable)? We (readers of this column) all want solar to be cost-effective and sustainable in the market - but we should seek "subsidy parity", too! Or at least understand it.
Jim Case
Jim Case
May 1, 2012
Free-Marketer

Well at least it is on its way. The plug and play solar is already available at Lowes. pull up their site and search westinghouse solar. They sell DIY grid tie ready kits there, even though they are a little above $3.00 a watt. The enphase microinverters, wiring connections and ground are built into each Instantconnect panel. See westinghousesolar.com Just like the electronics industry it will come to economy of scale.
Ken Fenske
Ken Fenske
May 1, 2012
I sell plug & play DIY AC-solar for handy people like you mention in your Home Depot solar isle idea. I think $9999 for a 10kw system $1/w for DIY solar would be amazing but that is still a long way off. I can prove that at my current 2.5/w DIY price ($1.75/w after current federal tax credit) that a average homeowner can make significant money now installing their own solar in a weekend. http://www.anapode.com

I'm very impressed with your energy efficency. I used 41kw a day two years ago before I got into solar. One reason it's so much is I run a software company with 5 employees from my home so there's a lot of computers and a server drawing power. Another reason is the house is 200+ yrs old and there's only so much I can do to insulate it.
I met 85% of my energy needs with a 10kw solar system and have been changing out lights, computers and servers to reduce my load.
At this point I am net positive with a 20% overage or about 12kws a day excess. While the utility does pay me for this it pays a low generation rate so ideally I think just meeting my needs would be ideal and that's what I advise people who ask.
When summer comes I will use more for AC so we'll see how that works out this year.
Energy storage is important and a breakthrough is needed. Load management is also a useful technique. My utility is giving a 10% electric bill reduction to people who have full-AC and will allow them to attach a device to cycle it during period of high demand. This kind of demand management also had significant payback potential.
I enjoy your posts, them make me think.
Amet Kianin
Amet Kianin
May 1, 2012
FIT equals First Insulate Thoroughly,reduce your load, and than contemplate Solar Energy..Dont jump on the Hype and retrofit even if Paul Getty is your uncle.
The Black swan hatched long ago and will soon be here...
James Desmond
James Desmond
April 30, 2012
Oltoby:

Yes, you've grasped it -- Solve the electricity storage problem and EVERYONE will want Solar PV. Here's the conclusion from the link that you read:

-- there must be availed, in the mass-market channel: Interchangeable plug-n-play Solar PV panels + energy-storage packs (cubes, whatever). Those two components will form a mass market for grid-tied, residential/rural Solar PV on the hundred-million (think TV sets, water heaters, A-C systems) scale.

That market's Take-off Price: A 10KW, grid-tied Solar PV system for $9995 out of the Home Depot "Solar Aisle," plus $1995 for an "energy cube" that can be snapped in and out of a garage or closet storage unit and swappable (like propane tanks for grills).

More on building a free market for solar power here:https://sites.google.com/site/freemarketsolarpower/home
James Desmond
James Desmond
April 30, 2012
Quint,

You'll note that my building has a metal skin and the living section's built on tons of extra clay for a solar mass heating/cooling effect. Inside the walls is 4' Artic Foil pouch insulation (what they use in ice rinks). So the building's like a big refrigerator thermally speaking.

With the windows up and zero shade (hence, full sun) on a 94 degree day it's about 82 inside -- with no air-conditioning! So a 10,000 btu window A-C unit will cool down the 900 sq. ft. of general living area, and two individual, 5000 btu units cool each bedroom (keep the bedroom doors closed during the day since I'm not in them).

Winter's a snap -- just a couple of space heaters (hey, it's South Georgia -- our seasons are: Summer, More Summer, Christmas and Summer again).

I of course use energy efficient lighting, and that's been augmented by a solar foil ceiling (increases ambient light and thus decreases the need for artificial light) that a talented friend designed/installed -- I got the idea from dopers and thus bought the 'grow room' light-diffusion foil that they use.

And yes, there a few other tricks that I do to keep my monthly power bill in the 50-60 KWH range on the consumption side.

In that regard, I'm averaging over 1000 KWH/month fed into the grid on the plus side of my net meter (passed 22,000 KWH a little while ago, and that's since the system went live 10/2/2010).

I'm emailing you with an invite to come visit and see for yourself since you live within a day's drive.
Quint Young
Quint Young
April 30, 2012
Free-Marketeer, I have a question. Your home uses less than 64.6 kwh of energy a month? How? That's amazing! I use 44 a day so I can only dream of being as energy efficient as you. I think that my heating/air unit is very guilty as is my clothes dryer. Oh well. I'll just have to keep trying to improve. Quint
ANONYMOUS
April 29, 2012
It is sheer folly to ignore the profit aspect. Without the incentive of profit there will be no private investment and thus no capital to start or grow the business.

The economics of PV solar do not currently make sense in most of the world. Manufacturing in low labor cost countries like China is not enough. Since manufacturing of silicon PV solar cells is very energy intensive, a better approach would be to move the process to a location that has an abundant supply of cheap electrical power. Some place like Iceland maybe.
Jim Case
Jim Case
April 29, 2012
I could not agree more. I read your intire link. Thanks. I have a small off grid system that has 2 220Amp Hr. AGM batteries and I know what it would cost to store enough energy for a 10KW system. I only use it to power my computer and TV or can switch it over to power light circuits in the event of a power outage. To effectively store enough to run a house with the most efficient appliances available woud cost an arm and a leg. Not to mention that they would have to be replaced ever 8-10 yrs.

Jim
James Desmond
James Desmond
April 27, 2012
I would put all public investment in Solar and other renewables on hold until cost-feasible electricity storage is developed. And if we must subsidize green power (hence, Obama gets re-elected), then I'd use the X-prize approach only (use only performance-based subsidies).

Much of my information, by the way, comes from real time operations. I own and operate a 10KW, grid-tied, Solar PV system: https://picasaweb.google.com/115162333107690986192/A54KWHDay

This past Monday it produced 64.6 KWH, which is more than my home consumes in one month.

Hence, I operate a positive-energy home (makes me money every month). At (some project this by 2020 or so) $1/watt unsubsidized (mine cost $1.40/watt subsidized), I'd erect 40 more KW in a heartbeat if I could cheaply store and thus self-consume what my system makes. Maybe (change my state's turf-protecting law) even sell some to my immediate neighbors.

And I'm guessing my utility, which is forced by law to buy my power, would find it more attractive if I could base-load style feed that power into its grid, rather than variably spike it.

Once my neighbors see my operation and my payback numbers, this entire sector would take off -- without any need for subsidies.

Hence, the sea-change moment for Solar PV, at both the small and large-scale level, will occur when cost-feasible electricity storage is developed. More on that here: https://sites.google.com/site/freemarketsolarpower/home/electricity-storage

I thus welcome further research on that sector: JamesChristopherDesmond.com

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Paula Mints

Paula Mints

All Solar, All of the time -- I started my solar market research career with Strategies Unlimited in 1998, moved to Navigant in 2005 and am now I am excited to announce the founding of a new company, Paula Mints Solar PV Market Research....
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