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Kyocera to Launch Solar With Li-Ion Battery Storage for Homes in Japan

Ucilia Wang, Contributing Editor
January 30, 2012  |  74 Comments

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A big energy-related disaster doesn't just leave horrible marks on people's lives; it also can propel better and quicker policy and technology adoption. Kyocera on Monday said it plans to start selling a system that pairs solar panels with lithium-ion batteries for the residential market in Japan starting this summer.

The system will include Kyocera’s solar energy equipment, including solar panels, inverter and software to monitor and manage energy use, with lithium-ion storage and inverter from Nichicon Corp. The battery storage, at 7.1 kilowatt hours and weighing about 200 kilograms, will feature lithium-ion cells from Samsung. 

Kyocera said it has developed hardware and software to control the charge and discharge of solar electricity and manage that supply and demand for both feeding the solar electricity into the home or the grid.

Kyocera and Nichicon said they are rolling out this new system because of demand for residential backup power supply following the Fukushima nuclear power plant disaster nearly a year ago. That disaster also has prompted the Japanese government to promote more renewable energy generation. Last August, it approved a plan to introduce feed-in tariffs for various types of renewable power, though it didn’t plan on deciding what the tariffs will be until this year.

The idea of pairing solar panels – or any source of clean energy – with energy storage for residential use is intriguing because it will help homeowners (or companies that own the systems and collect monthly fees from homeowners) to bank solar electricity and tailor its use. For example, the solar energy can be collected when there is no one at home and released from storage when folks return home from work and start using all sorts of appliances.

And, of course, the battery pack can provide backup power should there be a power outage.

While home energy storage sounds like a good idea, especially when pairing solar and storage, analysts don’t expect it to become widely adopted soon, at least not in the United States. Lithium-ion batteries remain expensive. So without government incentives, residential energy storage isn’t likely to take off quickly.

Could the idea take off sooner in Japan? It’s unclear, though of course Kyocera and other Japanese companies think there is enough market interest to launch products. Japan historically has been ahead of many countries in adopting solar and other clean energy technologies, so it could very well be a test bed for the solar-cum-storage pairing.

 

 

74 Comments

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Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
February 11, 2012
Thanks Anonymous for getting an old resume up here -- maybe I can get a new job!?

So, now you think you're ok to remain anonymous rather than just act the part of a snarky woos? Whatta ya gonna do next, 'big' guy?
;]
Justice Vanpool
Justice Vanpool
February 11, 2012
Don't get me started. It's amazing to me how these people say they want to be "internationalized", think independently, move forward, blah blah blah, but only want to do it in such a way as to not be noticed too much. Sheez.

Japan is a prime example of a country that both needs alternative energy resources (because it has none) and has the technological ability to develop them; but, to do such quickly requires an independent grass roots movement the likes of which is totally outside the range of so many Japanese' psychological vocabulary.

I just hope that a little blatant consumerism will get your average "Taro" to start voting with his wallet and circumvent the vested interests.

Admittedly the tsunami is a bit off topic, but much like the blind eye turned on the design of the reactors weaknesses vis-a-vis tsunamis, I think the "relaxation" of building restrictions back in the 80's or so is another prime example of how the elite (dare I say emperor-like) entities betray the self-inflicted trust given them by the populace.

All of this just to say that there is a lot more involved here than just economics and technology.
ANONYMOUS
February 11, 2012
I've been following Bill for years on this forum. He imparts very good information and has added value to the discussions. He's also a very nice person and I don't know why such an educated guy like yourself stoops to such low levels to try to prove how witty you are by calling and anyone that disagrees with your opinions ignorant. Are you aware that that's very insulting? You were wrong about islanding. Chris (NABCEP certified), Luke & I (highest grade on NABCEP exam in class) all pointed that out to you but you still aren't willing to admit that you're wrong. This brings into question your other opinions. You definitely need to be more respectful.
ANONYMOUS
February 11, 2012
I worked for the C.I.A in 1974...

Dr. Alexander Cannara is an activist in Menlo Park, CA. Dr. Cannara is spearheading a push to inform the public about the benefits of reducing solar heating from buildings and concrete through adjusting their surface color. Dr. Cannara is an active member in multiple green organizations most notably the Menlo Green Ribbon Citizen's Committee. He is also a distinguished electrical engineer, software & network consultant and educator.

Dr. Cannara is a founding member of the Menlo Green Ribbon Citizens' Committee. This is a group of concerned citizens from the city of Menlo Park, CA. Their goals, programs and actions aimed at the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions and the reversal of global warming. It is through this group that Dr. Cannara first began to publicize his research concerning the "heat island effect" in Menlo Park. Dr. Cannara showed researched based on how dark roofs and surfaces add heat to the atmosphere. Dr. Cannara's solution is the utilization of lighter colored roofs and surfaces to reduce this heat. Dr. Cannara has presented this information in print journalism and to the Sierra Club.

Dr. Cannara received his BSEE degree from Lehigh University, and received MSEE, DEE and MS Statistics degrees from Stanford. He eventually returned to Stanford for a PhD in Mathematical Methods in Educational Research and a Master of Science in Statistics.While at Stanford, Dr. Cannara designed analog and digital instrumentation, applying for a patent on one design. Dr. Cannara has taught courses in engineering, programming and networking at Stanford, University of San Francisco, InternationalTechnological University, Golden Gate and Silicon Valley University. He has worked both for the government and in the corporate arena with such organizations as Ballantine Laboratories, RMC Research, Zilog, Gibbons & Associates, Mitsubishi Semiconductor, AMD, 3Com, Network General, Vitesse, PacketMotion and Xambala.
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
February 11, 2012
Justice, we certainly agree on the influence of Japanese culture on hierarchically-caused error.

But, it can well appear in the 'renewabes' realm as well as any other. The govt. encouragement of rural families to use wood pellets for heat & cooking, at a net loss for both their forests & economies, is an example. There's a book by Mark Pendergast that includes that, plus other subsidized 'renewable' projects that achieved nothing useful.

Unfortunately, Japan is still managed by their axiom: 'The nail that sticks out gets pounded in'. So, folks complaining about corruption, collusion, etc. don't get far. The fact that the Japanese government allowed homes & factories to be built on Sendai plains known to experience previous, massive tsunamis, illustrates the power of the govt. over rational, independent thought. The involvement of the Yakuza with Japanese banking & companies is also hidden from most viewers, but sometimes explodes out, as the scandal surrounding the formerly great company Olympus illustrates.

So the families of the >18.000 dead from the tsunami and the thousands displaced by Fukushima radiation fears, are all owed abject apologies & full compensation by an arthritic government/industry coalition.

For a country founded on respect for ancestors to then have its govt. ignore clear stone markers saying 'Don't build here', is not simply negligent.

And the costs of making yet another mistake, will be even greater...
www.world-nuclear-news.org/NP_Japanese_trade_figures_reveal_cost_of_nuclear_shutdown_2501121.html
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
February 11, 2012
Then there's Bill -- oh Bill!
;]
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
February 11, 2012
And, you'll never make the CIA, or even the Podunk Police force, Anonymous. I got my PhD decades ago.

You're so easy, it's no challenge.
;]
ANONYMOUS
February 11, 2012
Couldn't find what C stands for on a few links but I googled Dr. Alex C nuclear and came up with Alex C Misner's Simulated Antineutrino Signatures of Nuclear Reactors for Nonproliferation
Applications Phd Dissertation 2008. You're a Beaver! That explains everything. You should have done your dissertation on anti-islanding.
William Fitch
William Fitch
February 11, 2012
Hi:

WOW!! A new day has dawned!!
In Ignorance DrC has spoke wisdom!!

"Not a 'nuclear' problem."

EXACTLY!!!! LOL....

.....Bill
Justice Vanpool
Justice Vanpool
February 11, 2012
Dr. Alex, I can attest to corporate inflexibility first hand. You may notice that renewables are taking more of an upper hand away from the perpetrators of the last disaster.
In the course of my job hunt here, I've noticed that mostly it's municipalities in regional areas (away from Tokyo) who are working on infrastructure and investment strategies to get at least their own part of the country working on solar or wind.
If Kyocera can get people to use hi-tech batteries that may trend technology toward distributed, safe, and independant energy, I am all for it.
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
February 11, 2012
Just to underscore the Japanse management problem, having worked for one of its largest corporations, this illustrates how stiff and unthinking executives & officials typically are:

30 March 2011, Agency France-Presse:
'The senior nuclear adviser to Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan submitted his resignation on Friday, saying the government had ignored his advice and failed to follow the law.'

Not a 'nuclear' problem.
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
February 11, 2012
As to Anonymous, my name is in several places here, try reading links.
;]
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
February 11, 2012
Jaja, it's interesting that a Japanese would dare to comment about US reactors, when Japan doesn't have an independent regulator like NRC. NISA is an industry group. It's interesting that Dr. Kaku fails to mention the many times TEPCO was in trouble for corruption (1992...) and poor management. He also could tell us about the Yakusa's relationship to companies that supply out-sourced workers to TEPCO and other nuclear operators -- those workers aren't well trained or managed. That's not possible in the US.

As for Indian Point, it just went through a record Earthquake fine, as did the N. Anna plant only 12 miles from the epicenter of the recent record quake in our East.

So, tell Dr. Kaku to contact me. I'll be happy to discuss the facts now publicly known about how the Japanese Govt., NISA & TEPCO, not only allowed poor design, but poor management to cause the Fukushima reactor problems. Remember, all reactors shut down properly upon the quake. For 40 minutes all was fine. Then, the poorly-placed generators were swamped. That's not a nuclear problem, that's management, design & regulatory problem.

But, even with all accidents anyone can find, nuclear remains safer than any other 24/7 power.

Here are a few TEPCO truths (please ask Kaku about them)...
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/5298-safety-on-the-cheap
http://tinyurl.com/4pqahtt
http://tinyurl.com/69yyh37
http://tinyurl.com/63pe99a
http://tinyurl.com/45mvlz7
http://tinyurl.com/3avkq62
www.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/world/asia/27collusion.html
www.readersupportednews.org/news-section2/338-177/5785-japans-nuclearadviser-
resigns-in-tearful-protest

Sadly many more. A friend was a nuclear safety engineer for GE as the plants were being built. The TEPCO folsk would meet with GE, listen nicely, then go off and do their own thing. That's why, unlike US, generators flooded (save 1 for reactor 6 -- it was up high :) cannara at sbcglobal dot net
Lawrence Carroll
Lawrence Carroll
February 11, 2012
In regard to nuclear power, I side with the anti-nukes, though I must say that on the surface (what is generally "seen" and acknowledged by the public), there doesn't usually appear to be any problem.

One (of many) of those who argue intelligently for at least a national debate on the topic is Dr. Michio Kaku. Here is an excellent interview in the wake of the Fukushima meltdown:

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/4/13/expert_despite_japanese_govt_claims_of

Here is a brief excerpt from that interview:

DR. MICHIO KAKU: I think there should be a national debate, a national debate about a potential moratorium. The American people have not been given the full truth, because, for example, right north of New York City, roughly 30 miles north of where we are right now, we have the Indian Point nuclear power plant, and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission has now admitted that of all the reactors prone to earthquakes, the one right next to New York City is number one on that list. And the government itself, back in 1980, estimated that property damage would be on the order of about $200 billion in case of an accident, in 1980 dollars, at the Indian Point nuclear power station.
Lawrence Carroll
Lawrence Carroll
February 10, 2012
Hey DrAlexC,

"Got it Jaja. And, at least your utility doesn't burn its customers alive, as PG&E does here!"

Yikes! I am familar with the Hexavalent Chromium (Erin Brockovich), so I shouldn't be surprised that they're also burning people alive!

Good luck!
ANONYMOUS
February 10, 2012
What's the C stand for? Might as well be Anonymous.
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
February 10, 2012
So sorry you feel picked on Anonymous, whoever you are, but haven't the gumption to reveal.
;]
ANONYMOUS
February 10, 2012
It's not pleasant reading your comments accusing people of being ignorant.
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
February 10, 2012
By the way,..
http://rt.com/news/germany-reactors-cold-weather-927/comments/?d=1?

www.world-nuclear-news.org/NN-Atmea1_safety_features_meet_French_requirements-0702124.html
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
February 10, 2012
Thanks Chris & Martin, it's not pleasant to see folks who can't even use a name think that they should be listened to. Or that someone like Bill, who obviously knows nothing of a particular field displays his ignorance so freely.

Anonymous doesn't actually understand local solar PV and islanding options, including the "anti" type!

But there's no aim to convince anyone of anything, just to prevent misinformation from polluting others' minds.
ANONYMOUS
February 10, 2012
I DO realize inverters have an ANTIislanding feature. It's the Dr. who doesn't. Beat up on nuclear? Put the pipe down.
Chris Mason
Chris Mason
February 10, 2012
Why don't you ask that linesman why he isn't working between grounds as he is supposed to be, and why don't you realize that modern inverters have anti-islanding, so it is a non-issue. By far and away the largest threat is back fed generators. Any form of power can be installed by idiots and cause harm.
Properly installed system, proper safety procedures and properly trained inspectors combine to make solar a safe proposition. It's the cowboys you have to watch for, on both sides.

Also, why is it that when there is a good topic about solar, there is always someone who wants to subvert the discussion to beat up on nuclear? It's possible to work in the solar industry and recognize the value of other energy sources.

Chris Mason
NABCEP certified PV installer
ANONYMOUS
February 10, 2012
Store it in "Dr"AlecC and martin-nicholson's backyard. It should prove beneficial.

Doc, ask a lineman (doesn't have to be from PG&E) if they think islanding is a good idea during a grid shutdown.
William Fitch
William Fitch
February 10, 2012
Hi:

Well as I said, there is no shortage...
I am surprised you two don't know each other...
You both have studied the EE area and have work experience in the I.T. arena and of course are both pro-N... but its a big world..
I particularly like the, "...might even be beneficial health... part" LOL...
...it reminds me of the old Marshall Institute cigarette ads saying...and some studies suggest it might even be good for your health... LOL...
I see Martin that you do allot of pro-N writing down under...
Good for you...
Personally I think the approach of piggy backing a pro nuke stance while coupling yourself with the RE areas is a very effective marketing tool... kind of a twist on a Trojan Horse concept...

Have a nice day...

.....Bill
Martin Nicholson (Author - ENERGY IN A CHANGING CLIMATE)
Martin Nicholson (Author - ENERGY IN A CHANGING CLIMATE)
February 10, 2012
Not sure why this discussion has drifted into nuclear power but I have to agree with DrAlex, much of the anti-nuclear material here is poorly informed or just outright spin. I prefer to believe international bodies like the UN before anti-nuke propaganda vis-à-vis accidents like Chernobyl. Likewise the LNT (linear, no threshold - the lower the dose the safer it is) approach to radiation dose is starting to be seriously questioned by radiation experts. Some even suggest that the kind of doses being experienced around much of Fukushima are actually beneficial for health and certainly no grounds for mass evacuation. I expect the science will progressive move in this direction.
ANONYMOUS
February 10, 2012
"William, you need to educate yourself, rather than display ignorance. If you ate a banana today, you exposed yourself permanently, via its Potassium, to more radiation than if you lived near any approved nuclear plant."

This might help with your education William...

Wikipedia

These are lists of nuclear disasters and radioactive incidents.

List of civilian nuclear accidents
List of civilian nuclear incidents
List of civilian radiation accidents
List of crimes involving radioactive substances
List of military nuclear accidents
List of nuclear and radiation accidents
List of nuclear and radiation accidents by death toll
List of nuclear tests
List of sunken nuclear submarines


Notable
2011 Japanese nuclear accidents
1986 List of Chernobyl-related articles
1969 Lucens reactor
1961 K-19 nuclear accident
1957 Kyshtym disaster
1957 Windscale fire
1945 Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki

Speaking of bananas...
William Fitch
William Fitch
February 10, 2012
Hi:

Not a problem Alex... I understand you have a unshakeable motive... there is certainly not a shortage of groups out there with a $$$ agenda...
I have read extensively on radiation.. You attempt to make your case by quoting parts of the truth and leaving out key concepts to 'SPIN' a result that supports your position.. I would say to you, educate yourself but education is not your shortage or problem. You are simply one of the dollar people who out of blind pursuit of such or 'extreme evangelical' style wack-o-ness, chooses to head down the road your on...
Not a problem really, you share lots of company...

.....Bill
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
February 10, 2012
Pile on there Jim, but not with uninformed statements. The cost of a nuke Watt is far less than any other source, including hydro, because: a) it's not subsidized as combustion is, and b) its power density is about 1,000,000 times that of any other source.

So, above, you just picked indeed a weak spot in present solid-fuel reactors -- they remove fuel periodically for re-processing to new fuel + waste (France) or for storage somewhere -- indeed we need to fix that. And we were told how in 1962: http://tinyurl.com/6xgpkfa

But, you display ignorance of the fact that the 18-month shutdown is for fuel rotation, not removal. Only some may be scheduled for a 4.5-5-year removal, and if so, some new fuel rods go in. But never more than 1/3 the rods are removed each cycle, so given the >3GWHr/lb power density of Uranium fission, very little material is actually involved. It's the 95% of what's removed after 4-5 years that's 238U, which is benign and could be used in breeder reactors later, so it should be saved -- it has about 100x the energy in it than was consumed in the reactor by fissioning the rare isotope 235U.

By the way, that nuke, running >90% of the time, consumes 10,000 Americans each year from coal emissions alone aren't in your figures? Why not?

Keep trying there Jim! Here's a hint, see if you can fins the 1998 Swiss evaluation of dangers & costs for all generation types.
Jim Stack
Jim Stack
February 10, 2012
Nuclear Education= 90% of the uranium used in the 104 nuclear plants in the USA is imported from foreign countries.

Nuclear plants have to be shut down and refueled every 18 months.

All the waste is stored on site with no long term solution in site. Most locations were running out of room so they requested and got permission to build more on site storage.

Not a single nuclear plant is built that can pay for itself. The governments has to loan the money and insure the plant.

Nuclear is the most expensive power ever made and the final cost is not yet done.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_mining
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
February 9, 2012
William, you need to educate yourself, rather than display ignorance. If you ate a banana today, you exposed yourself permanently, via its Potassium, to more radiation than if you lived near any approved nuclear plant.

If you had a dental Xray, you're now 50 times exposed as living near a nuke for a year. Average background radiation from rocks & soil is twice the Xray, over a day. Flying across the US or Australia gives you 8 times the radiation dose you got from your dentist, and so on. Living in a stone, brick or concrete house for a year is equal to 2 cross-country air trips, or living near 3-Mile Island when it was happening.

You might want to read actual science & medicine re radiation, because Ma Nature has been dealing with it for a few billion years, otherwise those fossils found recently in Aussie sandstones wouldn't have survived 3.3 billion years ago, nor would any life today.

Here's some reading, if you actually care to speak without making a fool of yourself...

Radiation and Health, T. Henriksen, H. Maillie, Taylor & Francis, New York, USA, 2003.

Radiation and Reason, W. Allison, York Publishing, York, UK, 2009.

www.monbiot.com/2011/11/22/how-the-greens-were-misled/
http://tinyurl.com/4xqwzjc
http://imgs.xkcd.com/blag/radiation.png

You really do a disservice to your fellow man by spouting from ignorance, regardless of your motives. You can man up & act responsibly -- your choice.
William Fitch
William Fitch
February 9, 2012
Hi:

The probability is that everyone will die from nukes sooner or later. Nuke plants unlike bombs don't kill you like a gas explosion or falling off a tower. The way radiation kills is far more insidious. Its more like smoking in a sense. You can be sitting there doing it and feel perfectly fine, for decades even until the damage to the cell replication shows itself. People just don't get it. Radiation is incompatible with life. That does not mean life cannot exist or even thrive with it around. It means that it is a constant negative that life has to fight against. The more of it that there is, the heavier the toll in death, malformation, etc..
But as the old saying goes, man does not suffer thy death of thy neighbor....
It is really a shame that we choose to put money ahead of our human existence when we have all the RE we would EVER need each and every day, free for the taking...

.....Bill
ANONYMOUS
February 9, 2012
and how many lives have been saved or at least improved because they provide electricity? You still don't get the islanding thing DrAlexC.
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
February 9, 2012
Yes, William, our dear PG&E has killed more Californians with gas (8 last year) than they killed with wind (2 last year). They've killed no one with their nukes, ever. But, it's really our fault, 'cause nukes are regulated by the NRC. PG&E is regulated by our CPUC, whose head is, you guessed, a former utility exec.
ANONYMOUS
February 9, 2012
"Every new solar project takes California one step closer to a solar future marked by cleaner air and energy independence," said Governor Edmund G. Brown Jr.

"PG&E is delighted to see our first utility-scale and -owned solar PV projects move from construction to completion," said Chris Johns, President of Pacific Gas and Electric Company. "These facilities demonstrate our continuing commitment to deliver renewable electricity to our customers. As California moves into its clean energy future, programs like this are providing local benefits, including green jobs, for the communities we serve."

"Today's dedication of three new solar photovoltaic generation stations is yet another step toward reducing our dependency on foreign sources of energy. We can diversify our energy portfolio and maintain millions of acres of agricultural land by supporting smart projects like these," Congressman Costa said.

http://www.pge.com/about/newsroom/newsreleases/20110929/pgampe_completes_three_solar_projects_to_deliver_more_clean_energy_to_customers.shtml
William Fitch
William Fitch
February 9, 2012
Hi:

Just out of curiosity, is that the same PG&E that was in Erin Brockovich..??..

If yes, is their behavior any surprise....

.....Bill
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
February 9, 2012
Got it Jaja. And, at least your utility doesn't burn its customers alive, as PG&E does here!
Lawrence Carroll
Lawrence Carroll
February 8, 2012
Hey DrAlexC!

"Jaja, we're in complete agreement, excepting only for the usefulness of the grid."

Actually, we're probably in more agreement than I meant to imply. I have a 6 KW grid-tie system, and I am quite pleased with it (though Southern Company does not pay what I think my electricity is actually worth).

What I was originally posting had to do as much with how the grid(s) were orginally formulated by the government, as so-called "natural monopolies." While there is certainly some justification for the creation of such monopolies, there is also a lot of justification for the criticism that such systems has received over the decades by both the Left & Right, even before they were put into effect, . . Without going into much detail, however, I will nonetheless say that some utilities in some parts of the country were created with a better intent for the public good than others were! (I have a friend who lived in Oregon and compared to Georgia, he was very pleased with the way customers were treated).

In regard to many utilities, they are given the privileges of monopoly, and while "regulated" by various state PSCs, many are able to reap vast profits far beyond what they need to cover both current and future costs, as well as lobby against the use alternative energy sources.

Southern Company bought a huge chunk of Britain's power infrastructure in the latter part of the 20th century. Because they depleted their capital doing this, they were unable to pay for necessary tree-trimming here in Alabama for several years until they received permission to raise rates from the PSC (and as a result there were a lot more power outages due that were tree related). This type of government created situation isn't fair to the user/payer even though it is we who fund this monopoly.

Likewise, property owners have no say on what technique the companies use to kill right-of-way weeds near powerlines. Many toxic pesticides are used. :(
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
February 8, 2012
Suggest you check the way in which "micro-inverters" (inverter-per-panel) work. The whole ides is grid reliability & stability. enPower is an example of these for typical installations.
John Bronson
John Bronson
February 8, 2012
You can't just tie PV directly to the grid indefinately. At some point (15%?) you're going to cause grid instability. This is already happening in CA, and HI.

http://www.smartgridnews.com/artman/publish/Technologies_DG_Renewables/Smart-grid-growing-pains-Hawaii-solar-hits-a-snag-3859.html

A better setup would be to require that PV connect to a charge controller for a battery bank, then have the inverter connected to the grid from the batteries. You can have a low voltage shutdown to keep from cycling the batteries, and still have an emergency grid disconnect for power outages.
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
February 7, 2012
Check BetterPlace.com's cooperative business model with users & grid.
William Fitch
William Fitch
February 7, 2012
Hi:

To me, using current battery tech for daily grid stability is not a very good option, especially if the owner of the battery bank has no stake in the power distribution network. All regular battery tech shares the issue of longevity which is HIGHLY dependent on DOD and cycle frequency. Increasing either or both reduces battery life significantly. If super caps could be engineered to almost a no leakage rate over time, and economies to scale vastly improved, they would be a much better option being almost immune to the two above issues. Those two issues are one of the reasons I question the idea of EV batteries being used to stabilize the grid. If increases in cycle frequency or DOD is any significant portion over normal CF and DOD for the vehicle, the owner of the vehicle has to bear the burden of more frequent battery replacement.
Second, using Li-ion where weight is not an issue makes no sense, costing far more per KW storage than Lead-acid or possibly redox tech etc... given enough size..
Battery for backup is a great idea since most of their life they are just being floated which yields max longevity.
Just my thoughts...

.....Bill
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
February 7, 2012
Jaja, we're in complete agreement, excepting only for the usefulness of the grid. As an electrical engineer, I'm well aware of how progress in storage is going -- even when it's cheap & sized right for our homes, the grid will still be needed to help with overall efficiency/reliability. There'll also be less need for those large transmission paths we don't like.

By the way, you tree planting is indeed commendable. Our scientists in the 1950s & 60s recommended the government establish a program of planting 200 trees/capita/year, while CO2-emitting power generation was gradually displaced by nuclear and solar means.
ANONYMOUS
February 7, 2012
jaja, Fantastic that you planted all those trees. You're contributing in many ways to keep the planet healthy. We need (many) more folks like you. Good on you!
Lawrence Carroll
Lawrence Carroll
February 7, 2012
DrAlexC, you might also consider the huge areas of land that are denuded that the grid uses for its powerlines and the structures that hold them up. These areas are also repeatedly sprayed with toxic synthetic herbicides to keep it denuded. You would think that the grid owners/managers might cover much of this area with stone/concrete to prevent the need for this constant upkeep (which uses a lot of fossil fuels for the trucks and equipment used in the process, as well as the petro for the herbicides like Roundup etc., but they don't).
Lawrence Carroll
Lawrence Carroll
February 7, 2012
DrAlexC, I removed the trees because they were a danger not only to my solar system, but also to surrounding buildings. In the 20+ years that I have lived at my current residence, I've had many instances where trees of the same species/age as those that I removed more recently have had limbs - or even the whole trunk - fall on my house etc.. Fortuantely my insurance has covered these problems - but nothing would cover my death or that of others who could also have easily been underneath. This happened because - like you - I hate to remove trees - but I have learned that when they get old it is often necessary to prevent them from hurting people/buildings etc.

Insofar as 'planting more trees,' that has always been an ongoing process my entire life, as I own a great deal of what used to be pasture land, but is now 'chock full' of nothing but trees. Back in 1996 a friend and I planted roughly 250 longleaf pine - the type of pine that covered 3/4 of the entire South East USA when DeSoto arrived, but which has been reduced to around 2% due to the greed of our predecessors. I have also planted - and hired others to plant - 100's of trees on areas outside my yard.

Despite the absurd advice that I have received from those who want to make money using their bulldozers etc. to clear the hedgegrow areas on each side of a dirtroad that passes through my property, I have instead left it as it is so that plum, blackberry, oak and many other species of plant and tree can flourish again, as it did there when I lived here as a kid, and as is now happening again.

In regards to the grid - you are assuming that storage methods will continue to remain static. If so, you are right in touting the grid as great! But if storage ever evolves beyond what is available now, then it will be progressively less necessary - and finally obsolete. This won't happen overnight for most folks, but for those already off-grid, it already is a reality!
ANONYMOUS
February 5, 2012
Islanding


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





Islanding refers to the condition in which a distribuited (DG) generator continues to power a location even though electrical grid power when the electric utility is no longer present. Islanding can be dangerous to utility workers, who may not realize that a circuit is still powered, and it may prevent automatic re-connection of devices. For that reason, distributed generators must detect islanding and immediately stop producing power; this is referred to as anti-islanding.

The common example of islanding is a grid supply line that has solar panels attached to it. In the case of a blackout, the solar panels will continue to deliver power as long as the sun is shining. In this case, the supply line becomes an "island" with power surrounded by a "sea" of unpowered lines. For this reason, solar inverters that are designed to supply power to the grid are generally required to have some sort of automatic anti-islanding circuitry in them.

In intentional islanding, the generator disconnects from the grid, and forces the distributed generator to power the local circuit. This is often used as a power backup system for buildings that normally sell their power to the grid.
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
February 5, 2012
Thanks for your reply, Jaja. Sorry you removed those trees -- they're more valuable to our current climate issues than present solar panels. Each mature, broadleaf tree is a 60kW cooling system in sunny climes. And each 20% efficient solar panel is an 800Watt per square meter heating device -- anything that heats the air or generates IR adds to global warming. So, I'd plant some trees again!

Being off the grid for a few days is nothing, Jaja. I grew up in NJ and we had times during ice storms when power was off for days or weeks. You were lucky!

The reality with local storage is that it's necessary, but it's necessary that it be grid tied, not just for when it fails. Just as a hybrid vehicle depends on braking in town to regenrate & charge its batts, a local solar installation needs to be anle to dump its excess, once its storage is full. Hybrid cars can't do that so on long, gradual downhills (405 south above San Diego), energy is wasted because braking then becomes thermal (mechanical). So the grid connection, plus islanding is the best future for local solar. Since there's no meaningful local wind, and wind is so inefficient and variable, we need no windmills, except maybe for remote farms, etc. Wind power also exposes us to the expensive world market distortions for jobs, materials, rare-earths, etc.

By the way, when my folks' NJ home was off grid for 2 weeks, we were indeed islanded for heat & cooking, because we had a coal furnace. Neighbors came by to cook their dinners & take hot showers. Islanding is great! The grid is great!
Lawrence Carroll
Lawrence Carroll
February 5, 2012
Hey DrAlexC.

Thanks for responding.

I have to disagree with some of what you say though I'm sure that centralized power is - in some situations - perhaps necessary (though hardly the "absolute" it is touted as being).

Your 1st paragraph seems pretty much on target - but it is referring to a large wind farm - centralized power (and the investors who want that "handle" you refer to pulled as a guarantee) - that I myself am targeting. Even if I prefer my centralized power (if it "must" be central) to be manufactured by benign sources like wind, I would rather have my own system than rely on the grid.

"When the tree falls on your solar panels & you need juice to watch the Superbowl or keep grandma's insulin cool in the frig, you'll understand what the grid is for and why we had to force utilities to include everyone possible on it. The grids is, in fact, the way energy will be moved around to & from small 'renewable' sites (rooftop solar), with or without storage & EV charge/discharge."

This is a good rebuttal (thanks), however it misses the main point that I made in my earlier post (though maybe I didn't articulate it well enough) -- that with truly good localized storage, the need for "moving energy around" - (smart grid) - will become less and less necessary. If I could store up the "gobs" of unused energy that I produce in a more efficient manner than what is currently available (starting with Lithium perhaps) rather than selling it back to the grid at a low price - I'd be self sufficent.

Insofar as the idea that a tree might temporarily destroy my system, you have to remember how in the SouthEast US that happens often with the grid, Hurricane Andrew (?) in the late 90's took out my grid power for 3 days (& in many places much longer). In addition, while I "love my trees," I had about twenty near my panels removed precisely to prevent such a disaster when it was installed. Proper planning like that is essential.
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
February 3, 2012
Jaja, glad you've gotten something here.

The reason large wind & solar folks don't include storage is that it's very expensive and means they have to become responsible interfaces to the grid. Particularly for wind, as happened last spring in the Columbia Gorge, the investors want their subsidized Watts to be accepted, even when not needed. They don't care about the rest of us paying the subsidies, or about the grid managers who must serve us all and keep their equipment up & available. Wind/solar 'farms' are thus like slot machines with guaranteed payouts, if the handle is pulled. The handle is only 'pulled' when the grid ISOs allow, thank goodness. That was the big stink last year on this site, when the Washington State windies wanted the ISO to shut a gas/goal/nuke or two so the handle would be pulled as a freak storm came to maybe blow $ into windies pockets.

As to the grid. Look back at the Rural Electrification Act, and similar 1930s acts that guaranteed farmers & other rural folks some benefits that utilities (power, phone...) were only giving to dense, easy markets in cities.

Those acts were responsible for huge prosperity increases in the US. And similar in other countries. The grid isn't bad, it's essential. When the tree falls on you solar panels & you need juice to watch the Superbowl or keep grandma's insulin cool in the frig, you'll understand what the grid is for and why we had to force utilities to include everyone possible on it. The grids is, in fact, the way energy will be moved around to & from small 'renewable' sites (rooftop solar), with or without storage & EV charge/discharge.

Storage will be there, and much less expensive than Li batts. But the grid must always be there too.
Lawrence Carroll
Lawrence Carroll
February 3, 2012
I really liked most of the comments here. I enjoyed going through these, even if some of them get into complexities I am not familiar with.

When GeraldR said, "If you have sufficient storage, there is little value to net metering . . . ", I think he hit on what for me (& perhaps many others) has been the main issue for a long time . . . being totally free of the grid.

With truly efficient, reliable, and safe storage, we'll finally be able to disconnect from the "beast" - heavily centralized and dominant power production. I can't help but look upon monolithic power companies and the governments that allowed them to exist and "regulate them" as somewhat fascist. Though called "natural monopolies" from their inception, I find them anything but natural . . .

Being free of the local ultilty would be a true blessing - and I would bet that is why the utilities have been so pro-nuclear, coal etc. and anti solar-wind (unless they own & control it).

In addition, I've wondered why the solar and wind industry haven't embraced lithium battery storage more - despite the high cost. After all, many folks invested in solar and wind systems for themselves long before there were tax rebates (or due to great distance from grid infrastructure), or other money-related benefits.

Surely there are many with FLA or sealed storage who would like to add extra independent lithium-storage (or metal hydride etc.) systems, or ultimately replace their lead-acid batteries with something newer and perhaps better . . . The cost may end up being greater currently than what most might find acceptable, but so what? The cost was certainly greater in previous decades when the only "profit" from producing one's own solar/wind power was that it was more benign than the coal, nuclear, natural gas etc. methods . . .
Louis Shaffer
Louis Shaffer
February 3, 2012
Germany FIT is now such that you get less for the power you send to the grid than the power you buy from the grid. (Still makes money to send power you don't need). What they have also done is that they now pay you MORE for the power you use that you generate. This delta is intended to drive the storage industry. There are some problems with the concept (people who just use power unnecessarily during sunny times), but already products like the one described above are on the market. Battery prices need to come down, but forecasts are that this will happen as Electric Vehical and Hybrid sales increase.
Justice Vanpool
Justice Vanpool
February 1, 2012
The technical and money saving/making rationals put forth here show little understanding of what is happening within this country. This product is for end users in Japan, most of whom know nothing about the intricate analyses above. I perceive as a layman living here in Japan that Kyocera is marketing to the possibility of more planned blackouts (they were common a year ago) and the extremely risk averse nature of this culture. It's not about making moderate amounts of money with your energy system, but merely keeping the electricity running. If people want to make money, the energy buyback policy is already quite attractive: you can sell your excess energy to Tepco for twice what you pay retail... no kidding.

Anyway, energy reserves have not taken a sudden jump and such blackouts are likely to happen once a week during the Summer for everyone, especially in metropolitan areas where a high concentration of businesses would make keeping your office equipment running even more attractive. People are taking this VERY seriously here. JR is actually displaying realtime total energy capacity on the trains during the Summer.

If you want to criticize the validity of this system, fine, but please at least get familiar with basic energy costs, usage habits, and grid capabilities here first.
Luke Divemaster
Luke Divemaster
February 1, 2012
Anti-Islanding Protection

Islanding is a condition that can occur if the utility grid is disconnected while the Sunny Boy is operating and the remaining load is resonant at 60 Hz (US based systems) and matches the output of the Sunny Boy perfectly. This condition is highly unlikely and had never been witnessed outside of a controlled laboratory. Nevertheless, the Sunny Boy utilizes an advanced active islanding protection algorithm to ensure that the system will not export power into a balanced 60 Hz resonant load while the utility is disconnected. The Sunny Boy periodically injects both leading and lagging reactive current into the utility grid. This method has been proven by Underwriters Laboratories to effectively destabilize and disconnect from a balanced island condition.
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
February 1, 2012
Mason & GoGreen, you're confusing some issues...

"for line maintenance safety reasons"
"Don't let a utility tell you this" -- it's not the utility, it's state & federal construction codes & perhaps contract requirements written for large producers..

The points made by others are correct -- "islanding" must occur. Local power storage & continuance is an option, independent of the grid, once the grid-connect device has "islanded" the site. The inverter doesn't "stop power production" it simply does either the minimum (island), or the additional step of feeding panel power to the site, perhaps with backup battery involved. With inverter-per-panel systems, each inverter produces AC output and senses loss of grid individually, or the actual grid connect opens..

You don't stop power production of solar panels unless you cover them with a blanket.
;]
Peter Sommerfeld
Peter Sommerfeld
February 1, 2012
Hi Anon, I'm in Ontario, Canada, in the KW area. All of Ontario has the same program, it's called microFIT. Just google that and you can find a ton of info on it. There's great websites on real return using these systems at this latitude floating around the web as well.
ANONYMOUS
February 1, 2012
psommerfeld

Where are you located? What's PV generated hydro?
Peter Sommerfeld
Peter Sommerfeld
February 1, 2012
The FIT program I am on here I think is one of the best in the world. I pay ~ $0.12/kWh from the grid. I receive $0.80/kWh for my PV-generated hydro - about 6.5x as much. I don't know why everybody with a rooftop didn't jump on this program. They are reevaluating the program now and FITs will dramatically decrease, but I think it will still be a good investment.
Jim Stack
Jim Stack
February 1, 2012
FIT Feed In Tarrif that pays more than you are charged for a kWh makes this a real smart idea. Using your EV battery for the back up makes it a bigger payback. Using V2G-101.com , Vehicle To GRID you can get paid to help regulate the GRID with short bursts of power in and out of the GRID. It tickles your batteries and you get paid.
The batteries can also supply back up if needed. A relay would automatically cut off the GRID if their power failed just like it can on any battery back up GRID Tied Solar system.
ANONYMOUS
February 1, 2012
From GoGreenSolar.com

What is anti-islanding on a grid tie inverter?

Linemen who work for the utility company have a dangerous job because they are the people who are dispatched when an electrical line has gone down. Even though most linemen assume the line is live when they reach the scene to repair a broken connection, its still important to think about their safety. That is why most grid tie inverters on the market have an "anti-islanding" function built into the inverter's software.

The term "anti-islanding" refers to a feature of a grid tie inverter that senses when there is an power outage and shuts itself down and stops the production of electricity. There is a common misconception within solar panel and wind turbine consumers that if there was a blackout their grid tied system would keep them going through an outage, well this is not true because of grid tie inverter anti-islanding feature will stop the production of electricity when the gird goes down. You have to realize that when you own a grid tie system, the energy is stored in the grid, so the system is as reliable as the grid itself.

When the grid goes down, the anti-islanding feature on the grid tie inverter will realize that either there was a sudden change in system frequency, voltage, rate change of frequency, increase in kW beyond normal levels, or a change in kVAR and shut down the inverter. When the inverter shuts down your system is no longer producing electricity for the safety of the people who will be working on the grid to repair it. There are grid tie inverters that are still under development such as the TerraWatt Power inverter which works during an outage because the inverter redirect the power being generated by a system back into the property without shutting down and keeps the linemen safe because the TerraWatt Power inverter does not send electricity into the grid when it senses there is an outage.
Gerry Wootton
Gerry Wootton
February 1, 2012
masonc .. thank you. There are many inverter/chargers available with legal islanding capability. In some jurisdictions, if backfeeding the line, you must also provide and external disconnect or an exposed meter which serves as an emergency off. This is beside the point as the main Japanese concern is QoS issues not net metering or FiT schemes.
UPS systems by their nature do not backfeed the line.

If you have sufficient storage, there is little value to net metering: once you deduct the various fees, stored locally generated energy is likely more valuable than if it was net metered even allowing for storage losses.

Ontario is a different thing. The requirement for parallel metering and separate disconnect applies to installations obtaining the FiT where solar energy fed to the line is paid for at greater than parity rates ($0.82) while power consumed is paid for at the normal rate ($.102). QoS is almost a non-issue. In any case, you may not combine solar with storage to obtain the FiT;- this would expose a loophole as rate classes are determined by system power rating (typically AC) with the FiT going down as power goes up. Microfit rooftop installations (<10 kW)pay at least $0.10/kWh more than larger systems. It's common to have a DC rating a bit higher than the rate class limit and clip peak power to maximize kWh over the day. Adding storage would further extend this allowing a larger array to fit through a 10 kW AC inverter without clipping - not allowed. UPS systems with additional (non-grid) power sources are perfectly legal in Ontario but they can't be used in conjunction with the FiT program and with an on-peak/off-peak rate differential of only 0.046 $/KWh there isn't much of a case for time shifing. Californians with access to a $0.18 differential or more with demand charges might be able to make a case for storage but not Li ion (possibly low maintenance lead-acid).
Chris Mason
Chris Mason
February 1, 2012
"for line maintenance safety reasons"
Don't let a utility tell you this, I get this line from utilities in the Caribbean every time I have meetings with them. FInally they are waking up to how ridiculous this is.
The technology that solved this issue is about 30 years old, is laid out in IEEE 1547, tested under UL 1741, and has been in use for about that long. Any UL compliant (or other Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory) inverter can safely export excess power to the grid. There are currently millions of residential inverters doing that every day. It is a non-issue.
Battery based grid tied systems are great but have three issues.
1) They cost a lot more, because the installation is much more time consuming, probably twice.
2) The batteries have a short life and replacing them kills any return on investment
3) The system is less efficient because of the voltage. NEC limits battery installations system voltage to 48V, and inverting from 48V to 240V is inefficient, this is why a grid tied system has a DC voltage of 600V in the US and 1000V in Europe. A typical grid tied battery system uses a 150V DC array voltage.
We sell and install Grid Tied Battery Backed systems (known as hybrid systems) but to compute the Return On Investment, the customer has to place a value on having a source of continuous power. If they have a computer installation or have frequent power outages, then the avoided nuisance and cost of generators/fuel can be used to justify the installation. It is entirely possible to build a hybrid system that will never run out of power, so for places such as the Caribbean Islands, it can be the main reason to install, with the grid tied export being a bonus.
Chris Mason
NABCEP certified PV Installer
steve hoffman
steve hoffman
February 1, 2012
Maybe I'm a little naive, but what i'm getting out of this is that the Japanese are charging the consumer to put power on the grid. We taught then well!!! If the consumer puts power on the grid then why does the power company not have to pay the consumer instead of the other way around. In California and apparently Canada if you put the power on the grid the power company has to pay you approximately the same thing they have to pay another power company for their power.My hat is off to Canada, if you keep trying, and you sell enough politician to big business, then one day you can be like us, we pay our banks to use our money and now we are going to pay our power companies to use our power.
Christopher Lee
Christopher Lee
February 1, 2012
As I've mentioned before, whatever the hard economics, a small amount of electrical storage would be easy to sell to householders in cold regions if it enables them to keep the heating system running during a blackout.

The item that's lacking is a cogenerating heating boiler, but the World's least efficient generator would provide the necessary amount of power (a couple of hundred watts from 10-20kW). There's a design challenge!

As usual, people writing about solar, wind, waves or whatever rarely pay more than lip service to the possibilty of using a mixture of technologies.
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
February 1, 2012
Matt & Martin, local laws will develop over time, and so here in Calif. it's actually required for home/business solar PV installations to "island" when a defect or grid outage occurs. If the system has storage, its inverter can then keep the building alive, while disconnected from the utility wires..

The islanding requirement protects power-company workers out fixing their problems.

Local storage makes great sense and, in fact, is already being exploited in Israel & Denmark by, for instance, BetterPlace, which also provides EV battery-swap stations. The EVs at home and the swap-stations' batteries are on-grid via their chargers/inverters, which are wirelessly controlled by a local agent. Thus the local power company can remotely dispatch either load (for charging) or inversion (to meet grid peaks). The result is a robust grid, with high efficiency.

With solar PV having at least another doubling of efficiency in the cards (to >40%), the need for solar/wind 'farms' will fade. there's more than enough sunlit human structure available to meet all daytime peak needs.
Martin Nicholson (Author - ENERGY IN A CHANGING CLIMATE)
Martin Nicholson (Author - ENERGY IN A CHANGING CLIMATE)
January 31, 2012
Gerald, in NSW Australia where I live to my knowledge you cannot connect a "generator" (like a battery) that puts power into the local grid when the grid voltage at the property is zero for line maintenance safety reasons. This means that solar panels cannot provide power to the home or the grid during blackouts.

I have batteries charged by my solar panels and if the grid voltage drops to zero the battery inverter is automatically (and instantly) connected to the house power circuit and isolated from the grid. So I can certainly use batteries during a blackout. I couldn't use batteries during a high tariff period without disconnecting the house circuit from the grid. Perhaps where you live the regulations are different.
Gerry Wootton
Gerry Wootton
January 31, 2012
martin - and yet I can buy competent / certified multi-channel inverter/chargers that combine line, solar, IC generators, wind mills, etc with storage for residential use in South Africa, Kenya, Australia, and elsewhere. In any case TOU and QoS are two separate issues, although, if your watching, inverter standards are going to change towards a more proactive approach to voltage and frequency regulation (ditto for EV charging stations). But, nothing says that just because you're grid connected you must ever feed into the grid;
in fact if you've got local storage, you wouldn't even be persuing the FiT/net metering model. The question is purely economic i.e. do you want to fiddle around with switch gear that only handles solar power at perhaps 2 kVA or do you want to handle the entire 24 kVA (as the aforementioned markets indicate, if there's sufficient demand there will be a cost effective product); otherwise, providing a safety-rated line isolator isn't that big of a deal. Implementing rideout and peak abatement capability for large industrial machines, I didn't find that there was any regulatory reason I couldn't use battery power during blackouts.
Peter Sommerfeld
Peter Sommerfeld
January 31, 2012
Maybe it's different in Ontario, Canada where I live. A "battery source" (in my case, rooftop PV), is direct-connected to the grid via bidirectional meter and, wrt to my house, is a parallel source to the grid. Nothing gets switched off, regardless whether the PV system is generating hydro or not.
Martin Nicholson (Author - ENERGY IN A CHANGING CLIMATE)
Martin Nicholson (Author - ENERGY IN A CHANGING CLIMATE)
January 31, 2012
Attempting to save TOU costs with battery storage is non-trivial. For safety reasons the battery backup system can only be used when the house is disconnected from the grid – such as with a blackout. So to avoid TOU tariffs, you would need to turn off the main power supply and then remember to turn it back on when the tariffs dropped. Unless the smart meter can do this automatically, I can't see it being very attractive to many.
Gerry Wootton
Gerry Wootton
January 31, 2012
Thanks jaja. Our cottage gets by on only 0.9 kWh storage but then we get away to get away. We have relatives down the lake who live there year round and make out just fine on 6 kWh and have everything including microwave, washing machine, sewing machine, big screen TV, etc. Their solar panels are rated at only 1600 Wp (plan to do a load of laundry during a sunny day) with cogeneration when the gas water pump is running.

Li Ion isn't the best choice for this unless you must be indoors. I did the numbers a few years back and Li Ion came in at 0.54 $/kWh/day over 20 years (assuming a daily demand/supply cycle) while ultra-batteries were 0.03 $/kWh/day.
We still use FLA which works out to 0.07 $/kWh/day for historical reasons - works great but needs a separate outdoor enclosure for safety plus a fluid maintenance system (has the advantage of a lower initial & replacement cost). Also, there is a supply of lightly used batteries from critical applications which cuts the TCO by about 40% (~$0.04)compared to new. Don't have a read on whether automotive Li ion will actually develop a second use market like this.

In any case, if size matters, that can be varied. Someone did a similar study of the German residential market and concluded that 10 kWh was the 'right' size. Of course, everything's bigger in Texas. Oh ... and Germany has a FiT program that includes credit for local buffering of grid connected solar power.
Lawrence Carroll
Lawrence Carroll
January 31, 2012
GeraldR: ' . . .7.1 kWh might seem small but keep in mind that Japanese are not profligate energy users like Americans . . '

Well put, GeraldR!

I often use less than 210 KWR a month (total consumption apart from what my 6KW solar array produces). That is less than 7 KWH per 24 hour period.

Before my 6KW system was installed I sometimes had a monthly usage as low as 80 KWH (or about 2.6 KWH per 24 hour period). And that is without 'going without' or using any kind of gasoline or diesel generator. I do, however, have several small solar charged lead-acid battery systems (and I heat my house and hot water using a Taylor waterstove).
Gerry Wootton
Gerry Wootton
January 31, 2012
Battery backup in a grid connected application does make sense. In jurisdictions that have TOU charges and in particular have demand charges, a battery backup system has a good ROI. Of course, QoS also drives demand. In many parts of the US, QoS is mostly not an issue(although the next big blackout could happen any time) but there are a few regions in the US where cycle stealing, brownouts and rolling blackouts are prevalent. In many other parts of the world, QoS is much worse (my daughter reports from her post in Kenya that they have electricity - they just don't know when).
An integrated solution has advantages: 1) controls, displays, etc. can multitask solar MPPT, battery management and time-of-use power sourcing. 2) this avoids double conversion loss e.g. solar to line, line to battery --> solar to battery 3) this avoids battery loss when solar coincides with demand e.g. solar to battery, battery to line --> solar to line.
The size of storage is obviously flexible. 7.1 kWh might seem small but keep in mind that Japanese are not profligate energy users like Americans (Japanese residential use is less than half per capita) and that the batteries only need to store the difference between solar generation and demand, not the whole sum.
Geoffrey Gunning
Geoffrey Gunning
January 31, 2012
'if a fuel cell/electrolyzer becomes economic .......'

The maximum efficiency we can expect from electrolysis of water is about 80%. The maximum efficiency of a H2/O2(air) fuel cell is 50%. Therefore the overall efficiency of electricity storage is around 40% - not very exciting. Some low-grade heat would be available for space heating from both devices, but 60% of the electricity is wasted. A battery is definitely better.
Peter Sommerfeld
Peter Sommerfeld
January 31, 2012
I'm curious why you think battery backup will never become economical, but fuel cells/electrolyzers will? I have not followed energy density/$ or reliability/$ trends for any of these technologies. Have you?
Rich Barbarics
Rich Barbarics
January 31, 2012
Battery backup in a grid connected application doesn't make sense and probably never will due to small sizing, recharge issues and maintenance costs. In the future, if a fuel cell/electrolyzer becomes economic and the scale larger than provided for small shedded loads, a solar hybrid is perfect. But then you don't need the grid at all - real distributed CHP generation. Long term infrequent disasters like Fukushima have no discussion merit on this topic.

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Ucilia Wang

Ucilia Wang

Ucilia Wang is a California-based freelance journalist who writes about renewable energy. She previously was the associate editor at Greentech Media and a staff writer covering the semiconductor industry at Red Herring. In addition to Renewable...
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