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Part 2: How Tariffs Could Impact Solar Industry

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28 Reader Comments
Comment
1 of 28
December 2, 2011
I guess I'm perplexed why I should care whether a solar panel is built in the US or abroad.

I have three criteria for solar panels:

1. Panel specifications
2. Price
3. Quality

Nation of origin is not on that list.
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Comment
2 of 28
Anonymous
December 2, 2011
Come on Ben Santarris!! Let us be men and not cry babies. If your company does not have the wherewithal to take on competition,you are not exhibiting any business savvy. There are risks and rewards in doing business and if you want things made easy, you need to get out of this solar space and join the devious wall Street crowd or pursue other "make-a-quick-buck" endeavor. Please don't be a deterrent to the much needed advancement of affordable and sustainable approaches to energy production. I am appalled that in this day and age, you guys are using imperialistic and subvertive approaches to impede progress. You guys need to think long term, not just to satisfy the Wall Street crowd who look for quarterly type results. Wrap your heads to beat your competition by looking at ways and means to improving efficiency of your operations, bringing your costs down by mass manufacturing, and by biting the bullet on you margins (and greed). The legal pursuits show your lack of preparedness to be in this business. SolarWorld disappoints me.
Comment
3 of 28
December 2, 2011
Let's not go overboard ... the presumption that China brings nothing to the table in terms of technology is not just wrong, it's dangerously wrong headed. It would be a mistake to assume that they can only compete economically.

This year's top 5 for commercially produced modules include:
- SunPower: USA
- Sanyo: Japan
- AUO: Taiwan
- Suntech: China
- Sharp: Japan

Just out of the top 5, Chinese heavies JA, Trina and Yingli. It's not like American companies dominate this list but kudos to Sunpower. If anyone should complain it's Germany and Australia who have contributed more than their fair share to c-Si technology.

Anyone who does R&D knows that a key ingredient is budget; budget derives from sales volume. The suggestion that Chinese solar companies can't or won't do technology development or haven't done any is misguided. However, it does seem to be a North American trait to make a big thing about speculative science (judging by press coverage) while totally ignoring the importance of product development and manufacturing technology. In any case, you have to be able to field a team in order to play the game and the growing shortage of engineers, scientists and technologists in the US (now north of 1/2 million) may make this moot.
Comment
4 of 28
December 2, 2011
@JoseyWales, your criteria are valid, but you must think longer term. If by violating international trade laws a company or, in this case, a group of subsidized companies, can bankrupt other competitors, then in the future it can raise its prices because it will then have no competition. It will have bought a global monopoly, in a sense.

Subsidized Chinese panels will not last forever. Either they will:
1) not be continued because China will agree to follow international trade laws, or
2) not be continued because China has put all competitors out of business and no longer needs to export artificially cheap (subsidized) panels.

We must think long term about this.

@Anonymous of comment #2, it is you who are not thinking long term.

In case anyone thinks I am associated with a US panel manufacturer, I am not. In fact, I am a fledgling installer.
Comment
5 of 28
December 2, 2011
If the Chinese want to avoid a tariff, bring the factories to America. It makes no sense to subsidize Chinese products with tax credits and grants.
Comment
6 of 28
December 2, 2011
Of course, one shouldn't discount the substantial contributions to the state of the art by NREL. This can only help the US to compete in this area. So ... why slash their budget when it would seem to be an important juncture to amp it up? According to nine congressional vandals 'NREL hasn't delivered on its promise of new renewable energy ideas' .. on what planet? Oh well, frack baby, frack.
Comment
7 of 28
December 2, 2011
I am all for American made modules if they can be made competitively.

Nobody is crying over (or trying to get tarrifs installed) on flat screen TV's or cell phones.

Those industries are completely turned over to Asian manufacturers. So what. Have they jacked up the prices? Answer: Of course not...Prices are still dropping and will continue to drop!

Why aren't those product produced in the US? Should we slap a tariff on those products? Why not on electronic watches?

This is just an emotional issue surrounding solar for some reason. We have already allowed "monopolies" on these other items, but for some reason "they" haven't yet jacked up the price. Because they can't. They are all competing with each other as well as the US. If one "overconfident" manufacturer tries to jack up the price they die just like the US auto industry.

Globalism is already here. Let the magic happen with solar as well and let's take over from brown energy. Don't throw wrenches into the mix by wrapping an American flag around "anti-globalism."

Chinese or Korean or Japanese or Vietnamese or US modules ALL move the Clean Energy movement forward.
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8 of 28
Anonymous
December 2, 2011
@orangehouse - comment # 4. You are looking through "colored glasses' (as your very print name may seem to suggest). Ironically, International Trade laws are drafted and enforced by bullies, in an unilateral fashion. Those laws are a matter of convenience and for predatory reasons and to make certain corporate profits are not jeopardized. As an installer of solar products, I am surprised that you are supportive of SolarWorld's protectionism principles which would only setback solar penetration, to the delight of the unsustainable coal and coal related service interest groups. Don't bite the hand that feeds you!!
Comment
9 of 28
December 2, 2011
'Those [television and cell phone] industries are completely turned over to Asian manufacturers. So what. Have they jacked up the prices? Answer: Of course not...Prices are still dropping and will continue to drop! Why aren't those product produced in the US?'

Because the 'job creators' in this country have leveraged their windfalls from the tax 'reforms' that started under the Reagan Administration to create jobs in China and elsewhere instead of here in the US.
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10 of 28
Anonymous
December 2, 2011
GeraldR,
AUO's panel is really a SunPower panel--joint venture.
Other than that, you should probably cite the source of your list of most efficient commercially produced moduled.
Comment
11 of 28
December 2, 2011
Imagine how much gasoline and oil the rest of the third world countries will NOT use because of these cheap Chinese panels. Imagine how advanced the rest of the world will be because they can afford solar energy.
As far as SolarWorld is concerned, I purchased enough modules from Shell Solar (Same factory as SolarWorld uses now in California)in 2004 to power my home. I have seen no degradation in these fine mono crystalline solar modules.
If I was still in the market, I would again buy SolarWorld's modules no matter how cheap the Chinese are selling their panels.
My concern is that competition between installers to deliver a good price, will undermine SolarWorld's market share and if I move, SolarWorld modules will not be an option. How sad!
Comment
12 of 28
December 3, 2011
Maybe Solar Wor** should go after the billions in oil subsidies...shouldn't our government give money to struggling new companies versus giving it to mature very successful companies? We can play the subsidy game just like china and have equal or actually lower priced modules as the shipping costs in the states are lower...labor is a fraction of the module cost anyway due to robotics.
I on the other hand see a much larger group of people being financially hurt by the rapidly growing US solar PV market and this group of people have now found a way to inflict damage.
Comment
13 of 28
December 6, 2011
You lost me with this statement: "Solar is now surpassing the big boys like coal and nuclear when it comes to utility expenditures for new power plants." and Talk about Chinese subsidies! What is it you call money the Federal Government; Obama; gives to Solyndra and others?
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14 of 28
Anonymous
December 6, 2011
SolarWorld is now dead to me.
The subsidies were all fine when SolarWorld was capturing the lion's share...pathetic.
Comment
15 of 28
December 6, 2011
ENOUGH with protectionist tariffs that would only benefit a very small group of manufactures.
If you want to support US industry, project level finance support is how it should be attacked. Lower rates for construction loans and project debt for those using US made components--the "green" infrastructure bank that so many have talked about for years. Then the market (developers) could decide--rather than tariffs that simply funnel money into a few manufacturers coffers.
Comment
16 of 28
December 6, 2011
There is no legitimate reason for this government to be subsidizing products manufactured outside this country with grants, tax credits or accelerated depreciation. Period. It is as simple as that.

One other thing needs to be said. Domestic panels can now be had for $1.30 a watt and foreign panels at $1.05 a watt. We are talking about a quarter a watt for panels and the government is subsidizing solar projects in excess of $1.60 per watt.

I would not support solar in America as a legislator if all the components were manufactured in the Pacific Rim and China. I suggest that the greedy installers that are feeding from both sides of the trough to get a clue. If this industry is not sustainable with domestic manufactured components, your subsidies will be gone and so will your business.
Comment
17 of 28
December 6, 2011
@hawkster ... so what's your take. Should the fed have bailed out GM given that so much of their supply chain is rooted in the far east? Should American military be depending on e-systems made in China? Should the fed be giving financial assistance and tax credits to companies that import their fossil fuel power generation equipment from China (easily 10X solar imports)? How do tax barriers on South American fuel ethanol protect the American consumer from high prices at the pump? Should there not be a huge tariff barrier against oil from non-democratic (some say unethical) countries, especially those that oppress women (or are we only permitted to dislike China)?

On the other hand, it had to happen. Governments are applying every restraint they can on renewable energy including caps on capacity, discriminatory curtailment, excessive regulation, red tape and down right bureaucratic delay, global warming apology and denial, etc. All they needed was an excuse to use more tax measures to stunt growth of renewable energy as if exhorbitant licensing fees, interconnect charges and production taxes on distributed power production weren't enough. While noisily spending a few hundred million on renewables R&D they're quietly spending 10X on coal and natural gas R&D. One might say 'more smoke and less mirrors'.
Comment
18 of 28
December 6, 2011
This comment is related to GeraldR comment above: 'Of course, one shouldn't discount the substantial contributions to the state of the art by NREL. This can only help the US to compete in this area. So ... why slash their budget when it would seem to be an important juncture to amp it up? According to nine congressional vandals 'NREL hasn't delivered on its promise of new renewable energy ideas' ..' The fact is that NREL did not support silicon cell and module development which is where China has provided more support which has led to their recent market success. NREL should be faulted for this lack of support. Instead, they bet heavily on thin film modules which history now shows was a mistake. However, they have supported the development of CPV and 40% efficient cells which repreents an area for US potential success in solar PV. However, what China did was support their solar industry stategic supply chain. The US DOE should support the US solar CPV industry. To do this, the DOE will need smarter management and a reorganization.
Comment
19 of 28
December 6, 2011
@Ifraas: good point: NREL hasn't been much involved in c-Si technology. Always, there's only so much one can do on a limited budget. Still, one can't discount the amount of thin film business they've fostered. On the other hand, if they'd been given as much do-re-mi as their siblings received for clean coal R&D, they might do more. To be fair, it's much easier to pick winners and losers in hind sight ... every time I think thin film is going over the edge, something comes along that puts them back on track - too soon to tell IMHO.
Comment
20 of 28
December 6, 2011
I'm with Tim Gulden above...are all of these tariffs so that fledgling American Solar companies can keep a few hundred people working a couple of years longer and their execs making millions, or so that we can increase thousans, or millions of Green Collar Jobs?

Just for kicks, what happens if in one year SolarWorld goes bankrupt and defaults on loans provided by American banks? Does this mean that we killed thousands of jobs because many citizens, businesses and utilities said that financially "the numbers don't work to go solar"? Don't Americans lose when Federally funded banks pay for defaulted loans with our hard earned Green Jobs?

Some economists need to do their homework here and see who is really losing out here when solar installers go out of business because they can't compete due to high solar prices? Either way, the government wins whether it is solar import tariffs, or taxes the thousands of small American Solar installers and their workers for doing well (who... by the way... pay taxes too!)

I say, let's do mediation with the Chinese government and businesses so that they don't turn around and do the same on the products we sell to them. I think the end game is not going to be American made solar modules with great 1) specs, 2) price and 3)Quality as mentioned above. This reminds me of Toyota and GM...go figure.
Comment
21 of 28
December 7, 2011
Let's make a check list. What is gained with import tariffs? A few manufacturers get to keep high profit margins. What is gained with import panels at increasingly lower prices? The shift to solar power accelerates at such a pace that supplies cannot keep up with demand. At that point prices rise slightly to reflect the demand unbalance. The use of solar power starts to offset dirty power and emissions drop, and health care costs start to drop. Since the cost of electricity is going down in stead of constantly going up from rising fuel prices, all home and business owners start saving money on electricity. The increase in solar installations puts millions of US people to work at meaningful and valuable jobs.
The advantages of low cost solar power outweigh the harms of cheap imports. Our country gains more by accelerating the installation of solar power than it does by increasing the profit of a few players.
Instead of complaining about the way China offers advantages to their companies, why not beat them at their own game? Our government should stop subsidizing fossil fuels and nuclear power. Our incentives for renewable energy should contain a bonus for using domestic products. We should subsidize our solar companies. We should eliminate excessive permit costs, and stop requiring redundant environmental reviews, since solar power is known to be the cleanest power system ever invented, why do environmental impact studies, when it is known that no other technology has less impact? Our government has many tools at it's disposal, but keeps the toolbox locked, mostly because of protectionism for fossil fuel interests, that also would be in favor of raising the cost of solar power.
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22 of 28
December 7, 2011
I agree that the best counter to China's subsidizing of their critical industries is to do the same thing ourselves, but where is the money going to come from? Our leaders (at least a majority at the moment) appear to be hellbent on cost-cutting our way back to be prosperity, as if that were possible. Of course, as you point out, that cost-cutting is very selective. Large money interests have ways of protecting their revenue streams to the detriment of everyone else. But hey, they are the "job creators", right?
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23 of 28
December 7, 2011
One place the money can come from is the savings from tax credits for Chinese panels.
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24 of 28
December 7, 2011
The only tariff that needs to be changed is the national feed in tariff F.I.T.. Allow Americans nationwide to insist that their local utility buy back the power they produce at a higher rate than they now pay. Consumers and small business owners with rooftop solar PV could all use the extra income that comes with producing free energy from sunshine. The American solar industry would be forced to ramp up production (at fair pricing) to keep pace with demand. If the Chinese can assist American companies in keeping up with the demand, more power to them. They will in effect, help us save trillions of military dollars now being used to control oil pricing.
Thousands of Americans could again become tax contributors (vs unemployment) via job creation. The side benefit of incidentally building a nationwide charging infrastructure for electric vehicles could also be good for our children and grandchildren.
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25 of 28
December 8, 2011
The constitution of the USA (Article 1 Section 8) relates to the trade between states. The Commerce Clause has historically been viewed as both a grant of congressional authority and as a restriction on states' powers to regulate. The "dormant" Commerce Clause refers to the prohibition, implied in the Commerce Clause, against states passing legislation that discriminates against or excessively burdens interstate commerce.
This being said. If we let the states put tariffs on each other then the USA would have surly ended by now. We just can't grow corn in Texas like we can in Nebraska or grow oranges in Vermont like in Florida. So why would Vermont put a tariff up against Florida...it wouldn't and it can't. This rule in and of itself protects us.
Now lets use the same commentary on whats happening with the USA and China with solar modules. Maybe they have an advantage. Their government chose to put lots of money into that particular sector. Great for everyone except Solarworld. The fact that this is a global society and economy must now be realized. If we can't do this then we are restricting the growth of the entire world.

Just a thought...
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26 of 28
December 8, 2011
I agree that protectionist tariffs are a regressive and ultimately doomed approach to the situation, and will likely trigger unpleasant unintended consequences, the worst of which could be military confrontation (most wars are economic rather than ideological). Matching subsidization with subsidization is IMO the only strategy that has a chance of succeeding, but in an atmosphere of promoting personal prosperity for some at the expense of the rest, it is very hard to come up with funding for such a venture.

Aside: I would be more happy (less irate) with the strategy of lowering taxes on the 'job creators' if there were mechanisms in place requiring them to actually create jobs. What they have historically done with their windfalls is invest in ventures that create jobs *elsewhere* and make more money for themselves on the backs of cheap labor in Mexico, China, Singapore, Malaysia, Taiwan, dot dot dot. Trickle down, my Aunt Fanny!
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27 of 28
December 29, 2011
I have an installation company but I support the trade claim despite any potential impact to my business. Here's my take:
1. China's view of trade policy is one of economic warfare whereby they slant the rules in their favor, seek to maximize only their exports, and erect artificial barriers to prevent others from importing to China. Unlike the rest of the world, where globalization and free trade is a rising tide that lifts all boats, they view trade as a zero-sum game where they take and give nothing.
2. If any global company (for whatever reason) wanted to sell modules at below market prices of say 50 cents / Watt into a Chinese project they would not be allowed to do so unless they were making them in China. Their system prevents fair competition. Some Chinese company would always win the bid.
3. More importantly, if a company from another country created a 40% efficient commercially available module that company would be prevented from winning any significant portion of the Chinese market for such products via imports.
4. If Chinese companies move the manufacturing lines to Taiwan or any other nation this is a victory for global trade. None of these other nations exercises unilateral market dominance.
5. If the Chinese want to really compete fairly in a globalized marketplace then they need to let their currency float like everybody else.

As citizens we must balance our short-term self-interest in purchasing goods cheaply with our long-term self-interest in confronting China's unfair trade practices. I support the brilliant effort by Solar World to expose unfair Chinese business practices and I further hope this initiative is expanded into Europe. I remain hopeful that other US industries are modeling similar trade complaints.
Comment
28 of 28
December 29, 2011
The simple solution is to tie tax payer subsidies of the industry to products manufactured in America.
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Steve Leone

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About: Steve Leone has been a journalist for more than 15 years and has worked for news organizations in Rhode Island, Maine, New Hampshire, Virginia and California. more »

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