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SolarWorld Circulates Petition for European Trade Complaint

By Miriam Widman, Contributor
November 16, 2011   |   24 Comments

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24 Reader Comments
Comment
1 of 24
November 17, 2011
It is amazing how quickly everyone wants to hate the Chinese.

Despite the remarkable progress, the global solar industry has more room to run. Placing protectionist barriers against more efficient and affordable solar cells -- whatever their origin -- discourages innovation and investment. Now is the time to move forward, not backward, on our clean energy goals. We must not walk away from one of the greatest opportunities of the 21st century.

Everyone should manufacture their products safely, taking into account all Western environmental practices, but the talk of manufacturing subsidies is uneven at best. SolarWorld took a 50% mfg subsidy in Oregon. Germany provided 50% of mfg plant costs in East Germany. Malaysia provides 4% interest financing and a tax holiday in its country. Furthermore, the $20B in credit was provided, but not taken by the mfgs, the cumulative taken is about $5B and the industry has to pay 8% interest on that money now because China has raised short term interest rates.

Instead of complaining, SolarWorld should learn from its customers. In the downstream space, companies must innovate or become irrelevant. China cannot afford to continue to subsidize a $75B industry anymore than the USA can continue to subsidize the World's health care any more. Lets figure out how to save the planet from Climate Change and harmful coal emissions.
Comment
2 of 24
November 17, 2011
China can afford to subsidise whatever it wants, it has an absolute mountain of cash. Just look at all the overseas companies and resources China has been buying up in recent years.

How exactly is the USA subsidising the world's health care ? In Europe, we have a thing called Health Insurance, which covers all of our health costs. Granted, it isn't cheap but there is no cash flowing from the USA to fund it.

Coal does not have emissions, can we please be scientific and not polemic ? Combustion of coal can produce emissions, and this is presumably what you are trying to reduce.

The issue here with the SolarWorld petition is to create a level playing-field. Chinese working conditions and safety practices lie far behind those that SolarWorld and similar companies, who produce in the West, are forced to adhere to. The desire to have cheaper solar panels regardless of what it takes to generate these is a bit short-sighted. What next, shall we have cheaper pharmaceuticals because we do away with safaety testing ?

How much R&D investment have Chinese PV manufacturers made ? The development has taken place in the West and continues do be done here, so these companies deserve IP protection, which they do not get in China, hence the need for some other protection.
Comment
3 of 24
November 17, 2011
On health care the USA has spent more money than anyone on cancer drugs etc. The drugs and then sold at a 50% discount to the Europeans because of their universal health care rules. Don't get me wrong I support the policy, but private companies will say that the profits they make from the US health care system drives more innovation.

This is the same in renewable energy and Europe where they have shouldered (with Japan) much of the early deployment spending to fund scale up.

On China, the SolarWorld complaint is not really saying that they believe the lower environmental standards are giving the Chinese an advantage. They are really focused on the industrial policy of China. I agree completely on Western environmental standards applying to China.
Comment
4 of 24
November 17, 2011
The problem with China comes from two directions.
First, it purposely devalues its currency in order to dump its products on the world market. From solar panels to baby formula, China has been dumping for decades and the world is only starting to wake up to this fact. Actually, a lot of countries have known about it, but no one had any balls to stand up to China because no one wanted to be accused of starting a trade war.
Secondly, China's policy of forcing foreign investors to relinquish intellectual property rights is what allows them to usurp a product's concept and then flood the market with similar, although inferior, product. That, and of course, their outright piracy of market products.
Any company or country that allows this intellectual theft, all in the name of chasing the almighty dollar, should have their collective knees broken.
Comment
5 of 24
November 17, 2011
So the question is if there are macro level concerns this should be taken up at the WTO. Individually signalling out solar is not helpful.
Comment
6 of 24
November 18, 2011
SolarWorld has been badmouthing competitors, and I do not find that a behavior of someone confident in its actions.

Chinese producers like Trina Solar support research in MIT:
http://www.pv-tech.org/news/trina_solar_joins_mits_industrial_liaison_program

Others also have collaborations with international research centers.

Without the efforts from China, I am not sure that SolarWorld and the supporters of CASM alone would have been able to take us to where we are today, in terms of market scale and technological innovation.

What is the goal in this dispute?

Not achieving a great mission (renewable energy) because of interest
conflicts would be a shame.
Comment
7 of 24
November 18, 2011
I have a solar company in Colombia and I buy american products but from now on I will never ever ever buy again american products, you are all petroleum companies owned and you have no guts to play same way as China, shame on you americans how China is doing far better in renewable energies just because they are not 100% oil companies rulling your country.
I will try to share these information with the 358 companies in Latin America to make a coalition against american solar companies because your so greedy, so incompetent and so sissy!
Shame on you! I really think these is a joke, but no, you American oil companies are really scared! Because chine doesn t need you!
let the people decide if they whant to pay cheap for solar panels.
Chinese are cheap because they are hard workers and they are not greedy like solyndra!
Comment
8 of 24
November 18, 2011
Way to go UZZI (comment #7). But keep in mind, big oil, controls a much larger portion of world politics than you might think. Do a search on international oil (watchdog@publicintegrity.org).

China has recently dedicated 1/2 a trillion in funding for solar for it's citizens. Isn't this what Americans pay them for interest on our national debt? Aren't we in debt in a large part to fund our war machine (weapons manufacturing and military suppliers) to control oil pricing? Isn't our military fed media machine beating the war drums towards Iran now? Didn't we just move troops into Australia? Nothing worse than a bunch of laid off Generals huh...

Boycotting the solar companies that are trying to push US solar prices higher might be appropriate. We would like to see pricing that allows the expansion of consumer owned rooftop solar to millions of Americans.
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Comment
9 of 24
Anonymous
November 19, 2011
Well if you think it so bad here why don't you just move to China? Or are you already there?
What is the use of buying a solar panel to save the planet, if during its manufacturing process they trashed the planet? It's no secret that because of China thirst for economic power has caused some very serous pollution problems. This results in causing severe illnesses and deaths among its population. Panels manufactured here in the US are of higher quality, and are manufactured in an environmentally friendly manor.
And as for warranty claims 5 or 10 years from now when those so called cheap panels quit working. What are going to do? The company that made the panels is on the other side of the planet. Oh here in the US we also have consumer protection laws.
Comment
10 of 24
November 21, 2011
Its great to see people from both sides of the isle comment on this. I urge those who state facts to try and back them up with more than just feelings. There are many truths and many falsities floating around this industry these days and it would be great if someone would make a website to get it more sorted out.
I think the best way to sort this out is by letting people vote with their hard earned dollars. I do think there are many people who only buy local and thats great but we have entered a world economy now and we must face the reality that we are all in this together.
As a born and bred American who lives in China I see the pollution problem here but its not so much associated with the solar industry at all. Just too many people combined with being the worlds manufacturing hub. Yes solar is included in this space but its contribution is minimal compared to the millions of other gadgets that are produced here.

Here are some great articles, one from Scientific America regarding a new energy economy for the USA. Seems great but highly difficult to achieve considering the current political and economic environment we now face. The other is from NREL regarding the payback time for a solar panel. This is the amount of energy consumed to manufacture it vs the amount of time it takes for the panel to generate that amount. About 3.75 years at the point of this article. Today it might be a bit less.


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a-solar-grand-plan
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/35489.pdf

I personally believe we need renewable energies more than a fair playing field. I wish we could have both, but can you have your cake and eat it too? Usually no...

I do wonder how long it would take for companies like Solarworld to sell their products for current Chinese module prices? Maybe 5 to 10 years? Maybe never? Seems like the situation is more about company earnings than clean energy.
Comment
11 of 24
November 21, 2011
If someone was to make such a website it would be great to do a calculation (using industry figures) about how many jobs will be lost vs gained if this protectionism was to go into place. I personally think more will be lost if you look at the whole pie. If you look at just one piece (the solar module manufacturing) then maybe there will be more. Hard to say without numbers from companies like Solarworld. And I am not sure if they are sharing these with the general public. If they are post it...
Comment
12 of 24
November 22, 2011
Hey anonimous coment Nr 9:

The real problem about pollution is you americans being just a little part of the world population and consuming about 5 times the rest of the world, chinese has millions of factories because you americans just buy shit things with your credit cards every day and you need a big truck to transport yourself and your shit things, consuming 5 times more oil per person than any other country in the world!
Before saying US manufacturers are better quality? according to ho? where did you get these fact? Have you ever been to a chinese factory? have you ever see bought chinese panels? stop being so ignorant.
And yes you have laws, you have as well the most millionaire public money going to oil companies, yes great you have that too! and just because of that money and greed you can go and attack Irak, afganistan wich is next? Dubai?
thanks for supporting expensive incompetent solar manufacturers that will keep you consuming hidrocarbures!
Hey you have so much money to spend in these panels....why don t you buy another planet and just move on with your specie!
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Comment
13 of 24
Anonymous
November 22, 2011
Its real obvious That Uzzi doesn't live here in the US, because he refers to the people of the US as "you americans". As for US manufactures having better quality this is based on person experience with Chinese manufactured goods. The pollution problem has resulted in large amounts of the drinking water being unsafe to drink. Info based on PBS show. It would be wise to invest in quality active carbon water filter geofmoser. As an owner of Sharp panels that were assembled here in the US I am quite happy with them so far.
The only thing that seems to be incompetent is uzzi angry response.
Comment
14 of 24
November 23, 2011
Hello Anonymous off course I don t live in the US I said I have a solar business in COlombia, DO you know where is COlombia? no no Columbia Colombia the country where you buy the coke, please try to read carefully (ho is the incompetent know?)
I work with chinese companys far now yes I don ´t have any problem with them, yes I boutgh as well US panels but they are the same quality than Chinese for a higher price. I work today only with chinese panels I won t buy ever US panels because they are just to greedy companies.I sell almost 350Kw year for off grid applications and no problem with chinese manufacturer, actually I had some problems once with some charge controllers 5 whent wrong, with the next shipment they send me another 5, end of the problem. Panels today are almost all same quality, you need to invest more than $3.000.000 dolar to open a small assemble factory .....do you think investing all that money to make bad panels? Do you really think that investing that money in China or in US is going to make your panels better quality just because you are white? yeah!
and off course I am anrgy! do you think that incompetent US manufacturers are just making trouble in a new-eco-healthy industry, why the complain? why call the europeans? europeans has no problems till now, they have their own market well developed.
You should ask yourself why....
Stop making panels, US manufacturers are not good at it! But don t complain because the only thing you will achieve is to make things a little more expensive.
I don t whant a big coallition against chinese because they are cheaper....I rather prefer the chinese modules because they are cheaper and I can assure you with the same quality!
And Sharp is not a US manufacturer they are just assembled there, don t be ignorant!
I don t whant to buy expensive panels just because Us manufacturers aren t happy!
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Comment
15 of 24
Anonymous
November 23, 2011
I said that the Sharp solar panels were assembled here. I never said that solar cells (made in Japan) them self are made in the US. You are the only person that is ignorant here. As business man you owe your customers a product that last. Some new upstart company may not be here in 5, 10 years from now. When the warranty claims start coming in what are you going to do? What I'm try to say go with companies that have been around for while. Don't make purchase decisions based on price alone. Established companies have the experience to manufacture panels that last.
And what in the world does race have anything to do with solar panels? A lot of the panels manufactured in China are made by new upstart companies that may not be here tomorrow.
Comment
16 of 24
November 23, 2011
Wow, For the first time in History Photovoltaic solar energy systems have reached and affordable level. The afforadable level means that you can expect an ROI within 5 years on most grid tied systems even without big feed in tarfiis like Gainsville, Fl. Now, Solar World is complaining about competitive pricing and China dumping their products in the U.S. to lower the price.
GET real. Haven't we seen enough of this. Stop crying and make an effort to reduce goverment regulations that control the cost of products in the U.S. The cost of hiring an hourly employee with all the state and goverment involvement makes it impossible to compete in any market. So who is to blame? Speak UP!
Comment
17 of 24
November 23, 2011
Sorry Anonymous....you are saying buy to US manufacturers and then you buy a solar panel wich cells where manufactured out of the US and then assembled in the US? Is that what you call a real manufacturer? why don t you just stick the price on it? and call that a manufacturer! jajajajaja you make me laught.Acording to you we should buy to Solyndra...jajajajaja yes they are big they are american and they ops...sorry for that! Where are my Solyndra panels warranty know? and what about Evergreen and Spectra Watt ....what about them?....yeah sure I buy from companies from the US that are huge ( in falling down)jajajajaja..........go call Solyndra for the warranty....and please stop being anonymous it s not funny to laught at nobody!
Comment
18 of 24
November 23, 2011
Hi uzzi,

Thanks for sharing your views, which obviously do not match
Anonymous views :-)

I support solar businesses and organizations that serve the
the rural areas in Latin America, Africa, developing Asia..

Hope to learn more about your operations,
and see if I can help with anything.

Thanks,
Yotam
(y.ariel@bennu-solar.com)
(www.bennu-solar.com)
Comment
19 of 24
November 23, 2011
In regards to Anonymous. I agree, be careful about the warranty. Its seems hard for the manufacturer to pick up a 25 year warranty...great for the end user. To solve the problem of new startups going out of business before the warranty is covered, ask the vendor if they have some sort of 3rd party insurance coverage. It does exist. Powerguard is a perfect example. If the manufacturer goes out of business then the 3rd party picks up the warranty.
Comment
20 of 24
November 23, 2011
I Have to make a coment about the warranty, here to make 1km of grid connection cost about USD8.000, cables post, transformer, after that you have to pay the bill for the rest of your life. With the same amount of money you can make a 800W system that provides for light, tv radio cell and small refrigerator. Thats all what a farmer needs in Colombia, just for buying the product they are saving money, warranty here is for 10 years, believe me, warranty is not a big issue.There are 2.500.000 million families without grid connection in Colombia and 25.000.000 people in Brasil....huge market where buying panels is always the best option!
Comment
21 of 24
November 23, 2011
Uzzi, can you contact me offline when your free?
We can discuss off-grid projects and projects in South and central America.

Thanks,

Geof

moser@realforce-power.com
Comment
22 of 24
November 24, 2011
Hi uzzi,

What are the import duties and VAT for solar in Colombia?

We pushing to eliminate it so that more villager can afford the solution.

There is a discussion here:
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Eliminating-solar-products-import-tax-3904407.S.53550455?qid=0e6a6f44-7dcf-46e2-82b5-4f19cad2b54f&trk=group_most_popular-0-b-ttl&goback=.gmp_3904407

And a public document where we gather data to here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1u5DoJT2UJnPRnKXN-n08K2K2HCj_BRCasxJs96n1s0E/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1

Hope you can share your insights,
and challenges or success.

Yotam
Comment
23 of 24
November 24, 2011
Hey Ynot

Well when you import solar panels to colombia you pay 0% tax + 16% VAT.
If you buy a solar lamp you pay 15% + 16%, so just bring the lamp and the panel separate and charge almost everithing to the panel and you save a lot of money!.
You can t import LED lamps unless you make an ICONTEC laboratory test in Colombia.(these is very expensive by the way)
charge controllers batteries and inverters pay 15%+16% a shame they don t understand that is part of the kit with the panels.
Of course if you importa from Mexico you pay 0% TAX + 16%VAT and the same is going to be with South Korea with the TLC.
Comment
24 of 24
November 29, 2011
Hi Uzzi,

Thank you so much!
Could you share the name of your company?
(if you need a website you can use - http://central.ly)

I will add Colombia and your information here:
http://www.bennu-solar.com/resources/latin-america

Are you also on LinkedIn?
It will be nice to connect and know more about
what you do.

Thanks again,
Yotam
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Miriam Widman

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About: I'm a journalist with more than 20 years experience in both radio and print. I was based in Oregon for many years but have been working out of Berlin, Germany s... more »

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