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Location, Location, Location: Where Is Best for Solar Success?

By Richard Baillie, Contributor
November 15, 2011   |   15 Comments

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15 Reader Comments
Comment
1 of 15
November 15, 2011
Early on you point to labor costs as a potential driver in location selection for solar module factories, but you do not address the point later. As a reminder, it takes ~1000 people to make 100MW of c-Si and ~200 to make 100MW of thin-film module. Additionally, labor costs play a relatively minor role for a thin-film module manufacturer.

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/stat-of-the-week-0.02-percent/
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Comment
2 of 15
Anonymous
November 16, 2011
I think good article, but can we rely on China in the future??? I donot think so at all.
In my perspective we should focus on a more balanced spread of the industry globally. Europe has a significant PV production infra structure, which is being distroyed at this very moment due to the (so called) positive cost effects of China. In a few years China will have lost its leading position, since costs will not be the only factor. Total cost of ownership will be leading. A distroyed industry in US and Europe will cost more at the end of the day.
How can we safe these industries from disappearing? And..... do not just focus on costs!

Cheers.
Math
Comment
3 of 15
November 16, 2011
I commend Richad Baillie for his excellent article. While in the context of the modern era of globalization 'Location' would lose its significance, in light of the elaborate commentary made by Richard, it's evident that the solar industry has been, unfortunately, bruised by the relevance of location. In the global perspective, the resources, (be it land, material, manpower) that come from the one-&-only living planet Earth, shall get the attention than anything else including the price consideration. So, why should it matter if the solar equipments 'Made in China' cost less than those made anywhere else on the world? Nevertheless, there's certainly a catch here; Chinese products are really 'cheap'. Meaning, the quality of the modules/cells are awfully bad and hopelessly degrading. In this context, I cannot agree more than Mr.Math who has brilliantly brought out this aspect by saying, 'In a few years China will have lost its leading position, since costs will not be the only factor. Total cost of ownership will be leading'. If China can hold on to the quality norms and yet make the products with lowest price tag, China should get its due on the face of world competition.

America and Europe are losing grounds as they are simply making manufacturing equipments very pricey. The facilities created in Solyndra and Evergreen Solar factories costed 3-4 times more than that built in China, perhaps. No wonder these facilities faced the early epitaph writing. Remember: we do not need a gold-plated comb; a plastic comb is more than enough. In the globally competitive world we should learn to cross the borders and hug those regions best suited for the purpose keeping the dwindling resources in mind.

DT Barki
Comment
4 of 15
November 16, 2011
Arizona, the best Sun with clear days all year.

A few mega PV plants are now in operation in the Gila Bend area. Every home and company has roof tops that can use the PV shading and power use right on site.

There are also 60 chip companies all making silicon wafers just like solar cells. The biggest and best is Intel who is expanding in the area.
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Comment
5 of 15
Anonymous
November 17, 2011
DT Barki,
How can you tell Chinese products can not meet the quality norms ? just get heared from someone ? did you check the related quality standards manufacturer provided ?

Obejectively speaking, there are some one with less quality norms, but we ususally get sth compared among same level of price, and with characters I think that is more reasonable, and also I got wanted tell you that there are a number of products with excellecnt quality which made in China too.

Truth is China do have a lower cost on labor employed, but you can not take it as one kind of strategy China using to attract more investment, lower cost on labor is not decided by China, just by sth... you know.

Actually,up to now, we still do not know how many benefits the rest of countries around world got from products "made in China", with Chinese product participating on competitive, you got the really cheaper products which also enrich your life.

In a words, Lower labor cost in China just like two-side of edge, bring us good and bad aspects....
Comment
6 of 15
November 17, 2011
To my Chinese friend!
(May I know your good name please?)

It's undisputed fact today that the Chinese products are very cheap (low price). Whole world knows about it. We should be happy about it. Why not?

I would rather suggest and recommend that let China be the 'world's factory' from where rest of the world could source the products. China has the mighty ability to make things cheaper owing to its Govt policies and also due to the vast manpower available for less cost. But our concern is about quality and reliability.

Though China has some companies that maintain certain quality standards but it has NOT demonstrated consistency yet. There are couple of companies who have got the TUV, IEC, UL and CE certificates. But most Chinese companies' products come with inherent 'infant mortality' signs. In the price-sensitive world, China has made its dent with regard to the pricing, but unfortunately products have not performed. Quality cannot be a variant of price.

If and only Chinese companies control the quality and give attention to performance, they can make a killing in the world. Will they?

In the context of the article, 'Location, Location,...', who cares about the geographical choice if German & Japanese quality cells/modules are available at great Chinese-price! If the solar industry as whole has to grow it should shun the regional caps such as domestic content. I wish to repeat what I had said else where: It's not enough to think globally, we should act globally. In the world of finite resources, we cannot afford to paint the products with the brush of nationality. Shall I, therefore, say: One Sun, one earth and one quality & one cost! Difficult? Lot of old problems are pending. New problems are being added. We need NEW solutions, the solutions that not only increase industry's growth trajectory but impact it in a sustainable way.

DT Barki
Comment
7 of 15
November 17, 2011
South East Europe is very good location for solar activities. Plenty of Sun hours (more than Germany for shore), competitive market, one of the highest incentives and prices and above all cheap but educated labor force. Macedonia buy 1KW for 32 euro cents, so do the math.
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Comment
8 of 15
Anonymous
November 17, 2011
The first two sentences of the first and third paragraphs are the same.
Comment
9 of 15
November 17, 2011
China is not necessarily producing more inexpensively; rather the government is subsidizing their solar equipment production massively in order to capture the world market. The thing of it is that these massive subsisidies should be directed inward, towards production for the Chinese domestic market. Having seen their air quality firsthand, no nation needs renewable energy more than China.
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Comment
10 of 15
Anonymous
November 17, 2011
DT Barki, Per your understanding, what is your know about Chinese government policies of this ?
Vast manpower can be used that is truth to China, but lower cost on labor will be end gradually in the future in compared with before, I believed.
High quality and reliability that is also what all of companies are in pursuit, competition in the global market can made them catch up even if there are some companies bring some products with less quality, if someone always provide its dent products, I think at this time we can have one surveillance institution to get it monitored or products sampling frequently and something else, to get it in control...etc.
I know some of sino-companies did made its dent with regard to the pricing on products, but not all of Chinese companies are like that, even if we encounter sth, I prefer to re-consider & re-design the whole process on operations(involve mfg process, surveillance system and sth on biz operations...etc but not limited) associated with this product, instead of just blaming and complaint....
I am one guy with characters like you, disgusting the companies without responsibilities to our society, if we really expect to get it changed, then what we need to do is not to come here, sending out the blame....etc, got do something as possible as you can to avoid old problems occurred again if you can.
I got hoped & expected you are or will be one biz man, always provide all of us products with excellent quality, high reliability at a reasonable price, if so, I think everybody will welcome you always.
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Comment
11 of 15
Anonymous
November 17, 2011
And, I got said please do not show people your views without any proved root of anything (if you did, I got thinked people will ask you, did you have ever saw that in your eyes), you can go to venue, feeling the things in your eyes, instead of just hearing.... if there are or is some or one companies/y made people its dent products, I really really expect you can get it changed fair, and brainstorm one way to control it, that will be good to society, to people around world.

At the beginning of development of any projects or things, things you can see is not good as you think and expect, but as one person with responsibilities to society need to do is to figure out how to get it better.... or comment your suggestion...
Comment
12 of 15
November 17, 2011
Firstly, thanks Richard for the informative article.
Now to the point...I am from the USA and would like to see more investment in Renewable manufacturing in the USA. That being said I think its difficult with all the political hogwash and monetary barriers surrounding business development in the USA now to set up solar manufacturing and make it competitive with China. Solar consumers do want quality but they also want a good price. USA can offer good quality but price will be high in comparison to the USA. I see Walmart as a good example of the challenges the USA faces. We want jobs but we want cheap. Seems both are difficult to get unless we close the USA off to the rest of the world and start protectionist measures...Solarworld?
I worked in TUV Rheinland in Arizona and saw many modules come in from many companies. Simply put, there are good products from many companies from all parts of the world. Currently I work for a Chinese Manufacturer of solar modules cause I needed a job that fit my skillset. That being said, I have seen many factories and quality in many is not a problem. Many use state of the art equipment made in Germany and materials sourced Globally, many from the USA. If you don't believe me contact me and I will set up a factory tour for you to see for yourself.
Someday in the near future the whole manufacturing line will be completely automated and human error will be almost eliminated. I have seen this already in a couple of Chinese manufacturing facilities. So...if you think making modules in the USA will add jobs then think again. Maybe a few management positions and hire ups but otherwise machines will do the rest. As a side note I have seen the jobs in the factories and don't think most Americans would want them. They are tedious and boring. The better and more interesting jobs will come from installation, design, and maintenance. The jobs problem is not China's fault its the American Gov'ts fault.
Comment
13 of 15
November 21, 2011
Given my understanding on Solar product manufacturing, especially on manufacture process for solar panel, most of process on making solar products is automatization way of production insteaded, not like other manufacturing factories like electronics product process need a lot of labors involving, and with Richard's info from this article, most factors lead to the cost and selling price to be higher seems the crucial reason is not labor, but from techniques and others.

How about that, if we get USA-based, or other-based enterprises allied with China-based companies, and then we can have a number of products with variety features (such as on efficiency), as Chinese companies can make the selling price cheaper that is merit, but they do not have the best techniques yet on solar products that is demerit, and USA-based or others is contrary on those two points, so if we get allied, no or less competition, and get different price on selling with different feature products for customer to picking as needed.....
Comment
14 of 15
November 22, 2011
Further to my previous comments on this article, I had highlighted the important but critical role of Chinese companies in thrashing down the solar prices and that no one else other than Chinese could bring out this 'price war'. But there has been a catch: if Chinese are left un-checked, the 'quality & performance' aspects would take serious beating. So, to succeed, we, as serious solar community, must have eyes of both on price & quality. We cannot colonize solar anymore nor leave it into the hands of 'white elephants'.

I wish to quote what Jefferies International has to say in this context: 'There were accusations of "dumping" and "unfair competition" against Chinese companies by German executives. Our opinion is different. We believe without Chinese competition, we would still have prices of €3 per watt. Our view is that much of the German solar industry [and rest of the world (ROW)] have failed to understand the competitive forces within solar and as a result have wrongly positioned themselves.."

Let us treat the world solar industry as a universal solar company in which we have several departments of this global solar company in several countries depending upon their strengths: US: R&D Dept, Germany: Engineering & Technology Development, China: Production & Mfg dept, Japan: Quality Assurance & Control Dept, India: Software Development and so on! Do you think this is something that's idealistic thought? Most Americans do R&D and get them made in China. Let us accept the reality and forge ahead, if we are really serious about preventing the earth from further damage. Let us usher in a new era of economy: Let ecological assets and liabilities form the central theme of modern economy. That's the only way to be serious of what we talk: sustainable development.

DT Barki
www.solarnest.net
Comment
15 of 15
November 22, 2011
dave, adding prisims or other lenses to enhance the sun makes the solar panels burn out very fast so they don't last for 50 years or more. Adding coverings also need tracking and other items that add to cost and reliability.

PV works great as it is and makes more than we use in a sunny area. My 4 kw system runs our home, 100% electric car and still gets net-metering credits each month. We help the utility with clean power using no water during peak hours, then also help them by using their excess at night when they can't store or use it.
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