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DOE Loan Program: Time Running Out and Questions Remain

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7 Reader Comments
Comment
1 of 7
September 29, 2011
It doesn't take a genius to understand why some very good states for solar are under or totally non-funded. Opposition to solar in Oklahoma is monumental in its stupidity! It is just unexplainable why a state like Oklahoma that has perhaps the third highest number of solar hours of ALL states in the USA, would totally wash out of efforts to start solar here. What could be the reasoning of this odd phenomena? Not conservation or conservative values, since Oklahoma is even more conservative than Missouri and strongly concerned about education, despite being a Republican state. So is politics the reason Oklahoma is not a HUGE solar state? It can't be due to return on investment, because solar has real-time examples all over the USA to prove that isn't a valid excuse, so why? Because it is an oil and natural gas industry state! So, here you have huge oil and gas interests and even coal interests, vying for a smaller market that has no saturation of solar power! No saturation! What is keeping solar out? Economics, based on the non-oil and non-gas based interests is the answer! Though oil and gas provide great high paying jobs in Oklahoma, they do not have the spinoff jobs that offer economies of scale in Oklahoma, so those with the highest need for and desire for solar, have the lowest incomes. It can then be explained better by access to financing for solar systems, since the return on investment is clearly established to be at worst case, 12 years for repayment and finally, free energy independence. It is a long time, and that seems more than anything the sticking point of getting solar started. Solar Thermal is making greater inroads, with a 4-5 year return of original investment, they are starting to be more common in wide areas of Oklahoma. But, oddly, not in Oklahoma City, where the larger incomes are available for immediate purchases even with a federal 30% credit for purchase! So, what keeps solar down? Poor marketing, No education, no support from Solar...
Comment
2 of 7
September 30, 2011
Parties over, turn out the lights.

Renewable energy is going to have to compete in the marketplace on its own merits; the federal pig trough is drying up.

As for Oklahoma, there is lots of cheap natural gas in the region and no good reason to spend money on solar. While long range, it is difficult to forecast the price of natural gas, it really doesn't matter. When and if solar becomes very low-cost and natural gas becomes expensive, it will be easy to quickly install the needed solar technology, which will have been fully developed and available more or less off the shelf as a low-cost commodity. To be blunt, no reason for to spend our money on solar at this time, as other (largely Asian countries) will have already made the necessary investments. Welcome to the world economy and hard-nosed economics.
Comment
3 of 7
October 1, 2011
Big Oil and Natural Gas companies would love for Solar PV and Solar Thermal to quit and go away, but this is a market that is emerging. The reasons for solar are not as much to do with up- front costs but have a lot to do with long-term benefits of Solar PV and Solar Thermal,as well as in-home Hydrogen fuel cell technologies. Sure natural gas is relatively cheap to buy on the open market, but OneOK and OG&E do NOT buy on the open market. They have been sued so many times it's hard to keep track of, simply because they fix the prices very high for their customers, even though they do not pay nearly as much in reality. The result is the customer is dug for nearly double the cost of the natural gas due to something called delivery charges...another term for molonopy pricing. Sure they will be willing to fix prices for a year, set at even higher margins, what do they have to lose? And that is the reason Solar Thermal will make huge inroads on the natural gas markets in the years to come, since the natural gas industry has become greedy and overstepped their justifiable margins. Both the Corporation Commission and the Governor's office will be forced to investigate just how excessive those are. In the mean time, Solar Thermal units cost about $4,000 for a two unit set, installed, and the costs over 5 years balances the cost of natural gas for the same thermal units, so Oklahomans will break even pretty quickly, especially if they chose to use radiant heating as an additional alternative to using natural gas to heat their homes. Then backup solar PV can provide any additional electrical energy necessary to suppliment heating a home, thus cutting out natural gas entirely and saving thousands of dollars over a 10-12 year period. So, the rationale is just not there to NOT switch. Instead, it is a cost effective way to reduce and even-out costs over a long period, thus reducing the costs of energy in such a way, that it won't matter how much the costs of natural gas.
Comment
4 of 7
October 1, 2011
Keller writes

Parties over, turn out the lights.

Renewable energy is going to have to compete in the marketplace on its own merits; the federal pig trough is drying up.

As for Oklahoma, there is lots of cheap natural gas in the region and no good reason to spend money on solar. While long range, it is difficult to forecast the price of natural gas, it really doesn't matter. When and if solar becomes very low-cost and natural gas becomes expensive, it will be easy to quickly install the needed solar technology, which will have been fully developed and available more or less off the shelf as a low-cost commodity. To be blunt, no reason for to spend our money on solar at this time, as other (largely Asian countries) will have already made the necessary investments. Welcome to the world economy and hard-nosed economics

See the correction below

Renewable energy is already competing on its own merits. Federal investments are insuring our energy future.

Party is just beginning turn up the music.

There is good reason to spend money on solar because we know the price of natural gas will only go up in time and an investment in solar now is an investment in our collective future.
Solar is quickly becoming low cost and easy to install which in turn is helping to bring down the cost further with R&D and economies of scale.
To be blunt the reason to invest in solar at this time is so that we have made the necessary investments to insure regional supply and manufacturing so that all our hard earned money is not flowing overseas like it is with oil consumption.
Welcome to the world of practical and intelligent forward thinking
Comment
5 of 7
October 1, 2011
There is simply no good reason for the public to bankroll solar energy because: (1) it has essentially no impact on global CO2 emissions, regardless of whether or not you believe in the speculative theory of global warming; (2) it has no impact on oil use (transportation fuels); (3) we have ample electrical supplies; and (4) we are out of money. Further, if renewable energy is as great as touted, then it does not need subsidies and can stand on it's own two feet.

The comment on synthetic natural gas is difficult to understand. Technically, making gas is over an one-hundred year old technology, with cities in the mid 19th thru early 20th century routinely lighted using "coal gas". Synthetic natural gas can and is made from coal (Google "methanation") and is a relatively old technology as well. As I recall, the process is an off-shoot of Nazi Germany's use of coal gasification to create gasoline and diesel fuel during World War II.

There is simply no question the renewable industry relies much too heavily on crony capitalism by a corrupt administration and Democratic party providing favors (using taxpayer money) to those who helped get politicians elected, and that includes academia. This is becoming increasingly apparent to public and a large backlash and overreaction will be the inevitable result, which is unfortunate.

Further, folks really need to stop resorting to shallow "feel-good" glib statements that have no basis in science, logic and economics. Renewable energy can be valuable (as in save the consumer money), when used in the right application and right location, with lower costs (driven by market competition, not government handouts) the key to success.
Comment
6 of 7
October 2, 2011
Odd Mr. Keller, that you would believe that solar is ineffectual, since in just one year, it has not only doubled its footprint in America as an industry, but has surpassed nuclear energy as a power source, according to Time, and a dozen other magazines. Even the Atomic Scientist magazine identifies solar as nuclear Energy's most competitive opponent, not just a competing market. So solar is opposed, not just competing for energy market share, which clearly explains your giberish about natural gas, oil and synthetic gas, and gas via coal methane. It is all a distraction of what is clear about solar that is never true about fossil fuels. Solar is renewable, fossil fuels are not, solar is good for the environment fossil fuels are not, and solar does not need to be rented as a fuel, while all fossil fuels have to be replaced to maintain or to stay energized. Big Oil does not offer energy independence, just substitution of foreign dependence for domestic dependence. Those are the issues you can't win. In addition, solar MUST have a fair return on investment to make it worthy of support in the form of subsidies or refund offers from the government, and to date, it has met those conditions, whereas oil and natural gas do not meet any of them! Oil is glutting the world and the national and international markets are concerned, for real, about their loss of share, and your remarks are a small portion of the flashback, to prevent any competition, not just inhibit it. Solar will still find support as education defeats the frequent slanders of big oil that tells the nation 'solar isn't worth it', when in fact it is much more than worth it, it is necessary for our future growth as a nation. And I am certain it will slowly get there, if subsidies are not enlarged or maintained...but oil concerns will try to delay it as much as they can, for profit's sake, not for the benefit of America.
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Comment
7 of 7
Anonymous
October 3, 2011
Mr. Gregor,

You didn't give me enough informaiton about why Oklahoma did away with the incentive program. What type of incentive was it? As an example, in NY, we have a 25% tax credit capped at $5k. With the federat tax credit of 30% with no cap and upfront incentive money from NYSERDA, we have a very good program. But please remember, a tax credit is a dollar lost to the state budget. It may be possible that if Oklahoma can not afford to give a tax credit to people due to the economy. Now I work in the PV field and work in sales. But due to the economy, I can understand why a state would due away with the tax credit, even if it was only to be Temporary. Please give me more information about what Oklahoma's incentive program was for PV before i start blame oil.
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Steve Leone

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About: Steve Leone has been a journalist for more than 15 years and has worked for news organizations in Rhode Island, Maine, New Hampshire, Virginia and California. more »

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