500 MW of California Solar Shifts from CSP to PV

I wish this guy explained how / why - what are the benefits, reasons for going to PV.

With one CSP system the current tax benefits more than cover the cost of the system - this not only means free equipment, but can actually put money in your pocket: (url removed)

Cost. CSP requires all the infrastructure & systems that traditional power require. Steam, Cooling, Condensate, Lube, Demin. All the systems & equipment, tanks, pumps, piping, structural steel pipe racks, Instrumentation & Controls, DCS etc.etc. PV Has virtually none of this.
It's all about return on investment.

Tax incentives or DOE loans guarantees don't cover the cost and are far from "free". Long term CSP is best but currently no one appreciates the thermal storage element & production after the sun has set. Give em' PV til they see the the benfits of CSP.

Very well said, Anonymous! I have to imagine that maintenance is a lot lower on PV as well since it has no moving parts. Will have to replace the occasional panel or inverter - but that's fairly easy to do.

Until there is enough strain on the grid to justify the premium for CSP which includes storage, the rapidly dropping costs of PV will prevail in the short to medium term.

It would be interesting to compare the cost of PV with some small amount of storage to smooth out the system's output on cloudy days with CSP.

Thanks Anonymous. It is not free or no cost to build, but is to the tax payer - participant, as he saves more on his taxes than what he has to pay. It is just a very good way for any tax payer to get something for his tax payments (other than feeding a cancerous government) - turning that liability into an asset - investment for him. If you owe, for example, $10,000 to the IRS for the current year, and they say - if you will purchase $7000 of ownership in this solar project, then you do not have to send us the $10,000, which is the greatest benefit to you?

And thanks too Drees. Does anyone have rough costs on an average, and the lowest cost per watt installed and current life expectancy for PV? The maintenance cost on this new solar thermal tech is very low, with life expectancy of 30 years or more.

Here's my grid-tied, 10KW PV system installed at $3.5/watt cash price, $1.4/watt after tax credits:

https://picasaweb.google.com/115162333107690986192/A54KWHDay

With 7 cents/KWH payment from my local (Central Georgia) utility for excess power, it's making/saving me about $1000/year, so it's a 14-year payback on a 30-year warranty system.

I've yet to find a lower-cost installed residential 10KW array. But I'm confident the unsubsidized price will fall to $15,000 or so by 2015.

In fact, I've written about mass-market solar economics here: https://sites.google.com/site/freemarketsolarpower/home

The gist of what I advocate: Enable end-user (hence, residential-level) solar arrays, not big fat 'solar subsidy farms,' because folks will buy what they consume and thus they'll net-reduce mass electricity consumption, which is consistent with conservation efforts. This, in turn, will obviate the need to radically and expensively alter 'the grid' to handle variable power spikes (which is what the mega-solar-PV installations create). Finally, subsidies only create market bubbles and spikes, let the free market sift/sort winners and losers like with PCs, smart phones, etc.

Interesting. That's the lowest cost on PV I have ever heard of - and something worth it for every home owner to do. This solar thermal deal is great for anyone wanting to do something beneficial with their tax dollars and who cannot employ them for PV on their home, etc.

Good points Gumby. There is a company now providing Solar Thermal - Heating combined with PV to get people completely off of the grid and fossil fuels - AND AT THE SAME COST AS WHAT THEY WERE PAYING FOR THEIR UTILITIES - an awesome program. They actually save even more because of the increased value of their home. With that and eliminating your taxes with the other program can make a big difference in peoples' lives - and get prepared for the coming crisis / caos. For more info., contact here: powertaxcredit.com

From Solar Trust's own info, the power output was 2.2 Million MWh/yr, which is the equivalent of a 251 MW capacity power plant running full time. So the capacity factor was only 25%. Furthermore, it ws not designed with enough storage to run overnight, and required NG on 50 cold nights/yr to keep the system warm. So why not switch to PV? Not only is the system much, much simpler, but the operating personnel become nothing more than low-paid window washers. The 30 full-time jobs go "poof".

Then there's the 800MW CPV Sentinel open-cycle gas turbine project, designed to firm up the wind and solar facilities.
http://energy.aol.com/2011/08/04/breaking-ground-on-a-great-enabler/

God Bless for the Spotlighting Solar Energy. Photovoltaics Free Energy from the Sun. Most all Renewable Energy is good in one way or another.

The Technology of Photovoltaics PV will very shortly lead the world in Home owners and most company businesses worldwide as the Leading Energy. Thanks to the Dream of one Man.

"(It was his Dream that the Day would come that. All the World would use it for the good of all) Albert Einstein."

"Albert Einstein received the Nobel Prize in Physics For his discovery of the law of the photoelectric effect for the Year 1921. For His work for 1901 to 1903 and giving it freely to the world and all that would listen from 1903 to 1907. Free Energy from the Sun."

This Solar Energy needs to be on the front cover of every School Science Book in the World. Not evolution by Charles Darwin That has ignored more then over 200 years of scientists discoveries. Clearly Showing that evolution is wrong.

Why do we let the wicked teach any SH to our young at all.

United We Stand In GOD WE Will Always Trust
True Patriots

The Lord's Little Helper
Paul Felix Schott

Actually, Mr. Schott, Dr. Martin Green of the University of New South Wales has been credited as "The Father of Modern Photovoltaics". His obituary and kudos from industry leaders have been illustrated in these very pages.

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3228140.htm

The photovoltaic effect itself was first DISCOVERED (not invented) by Alexandre-Edmond Becquerel in 1839. It took 50 years for the first primitive (<1% efficient) cells to be produced by Charles Fritts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cell
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Fritts

Actually Steve Fortuna, Albert Einstein was working with Solar Energy before Dr. Martin Green was even Born in 1948.

i Think you need to READ MORE ABOUT Telstar communications satellite, Daryl M. Chapin, a American Scientist Helped Make the first practical solar cell for USE IN OUTER SPACE. Back in July 10, 1962 it was sent into orbit around Earth on a Rocket from Cape Canaveral, Florida. i was there.

Mr. Gumby, your string of 5 or 6 comments was 'censored' before I was able to comment that they were, in fact, nothing but 'hot air' and non-factual assertions, of no value to anyone. Sorry.

Dear Gods Little Helper. How on earth did you entwine renewable energy and a denial of evolution! Its miraculous!

I am happy to see PV come down in price, as well. For those who tout free-market politics, PV would never have reached the point they are at now without government subsidies. Government subsidies spurred tremendous investment in manufacturing capacities over the last several years. It's the open ability to compete among manufacturers and the decided entry of Chinese companies competing for sales into subsidized markets that has forced prices down. Without those subsidies, we would still have very little PV at this point, and it cost several times what it does now.

Me thinks "god's little helper" has been eating himself a 'heepin helpin' of that good old Right Wing Brain Death Elixir known as Faux News and the Limbaugh Clones ,as well as that old standby of fairy tales, myths and reality denial known as the bible.Renewable's flavored with a dash of Flat Earthism. AH! A dish fit for a KIng.

You are part right - prefersolar, but overall wrong. The gov't helps promote PV, BUT, because they have also subsidized greatly the oil / Fossil fuels, those resources are much lower than they should be as well. Without the gov't meddling the best techs would rise to the top. The Gov't overall greatly distorts everything, and in sum is a great burden - and why the economy is tanking. We are much worse off than if we could shut it down. But too many people think the gov't gives them something for nothing and go along with that crap - essentially selling their votes - not realizing that it will cost them much MUCH more eventually. Obviously it would be justified for the gov't to attach some form of fee / fine / tax to the production / use of polluting fuels (because they are damaging everyone else) and then give some support to clean alternatives which would propel and would have propelled them to where we would not have the imbalances and oil addiction / dependence and pollution problems we have today.
Because of the immense corruption and distance from the constitution, this government, along with the economy, is collapsing, and needs to - the only way to get things straightened out. But it is going to be very painful, and much more so than most expect - as they still pay so much attention to mainstream "anal-ists" and media, etc. Things will not begin to turn around until the country gets behind people like Ron Paul and we get rid of the scamming FED.

Man, this thread is all over the place! I can hardly remember what we were talking about! Oh yea, it's their money, they can buy whatever they want, as long as it is clean and renewable, it's all good to me. The commenter on evolution reminded me of a comment I saw before, when one guy said...." I don't believe in evolution; I have never seen an animal evolve". Like it was spontaneously going to change from a lizard to a bird right before his eyes! Man, what is in the water these days?

RTagain, I would say that you are part right, also. I firmly stand by what I say as far as solar not at all getting off the ground if not for government subsidy. At some point, yes, solar will reach grid parity and directly compete with fossil fuels, but until then, government is the fairest entity to promote what is good for us, namely, an energy generating source that does not pollute, provides individuals with a measure of self-sufficiency, and adds to our communities'/country's self-sufficiency. Where I agree with you, is that large entities like power and energy companies also take advantage of government and put those in power who are friendly to polluting industries and take resources that could go to individuals.

From a business standpoint, it seems to me CSP will become obsolete and be surpassed by better competing technologies such as CSP hybridized with geothermal, into thermophotovoltaics, etc..

Lower cost per watt PV which may be modified later for heat capture also fits into this list of competing technologies. But ultimately it depends on the business model the utility chose to go with to be successful.

I'd be interested to see how much CSP and other heat generating power sources can be used to lower the costs of thermal industrial work in a two, three or multiple tier system.
This seems viable considering that it is more efficient to heat your home with solar thermal than to provide heating via PV to electric heat.
Think vertical stacking similar to bamboo steamers used to cook multiple dishes simultaneously.