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EIA Report: Renewables Surpass Nuclear Output

Ken Bossong, SUN DAY Campaign
July 05, 2011  |  102 Comments

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According to the most recent issue of the "Monthly Energy Review" by the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA), renewable energy has passed a milestone as domestic production is now greater than that of nuclear power and is closing in on oil.

During the first quarter of 2011, renewable energy sources (biomass/biofuels, geothermal, solar, water, wind) provided 2.245 quadrillion Btus of energy or 11.73 percent of U.S. energy production. More significantly, energy production from renewable energy sources in 2011 was 5.65 percent more than that from nuclear power, which provided 2.125 quadrillion Btus and has remained largely unchanged in recent years. Energy from renewable sources is now 77.15 percent of that from domestic crude oil production, with the gap closing rapidly.

Looking at all energy sectors (e.g., electricity, transportation, thermal), production of renewable energy, including hydropower, has increased by 15.07 percent compared to the first quarter of 2010, and by 25.07 percent when compared to the first quarter of 2009. Among the renewable energy sources, biomass/biofuels accounted for 48.06 percent, hydropower for 35.41 percent, wind for 12.87 percent, geothermal for 2.45 percent, and solar for 1.16 percent.

Looking at just the electricity sector, according to the latest issue of EIA’s "Electric Power Monthly," for the first quarter of 2011, renewable energy sources (biomass, geothermal, solar, water, wind) accounted for 12.94 percent of net U.S. electrical generation -- up from 10.31 percent during the same period in 2010. Non-hydro renewables accounted for 4.74 percent of net U.S. electrical generation.

In terms of actual production, renewable electrical output increased by 25.82 percent in the first three months of 2011 compared to the first quarter of 2010. Solar-generated electricity increased by 104.8 percent, wind-generated electricity rose by 40.3 percent, hydropower output expanded by 28.7 percent, and geothermal electrical generation rose by 5.8 percent. Only electricity from biomass sources dropped -- by 4.8 percent. By comparison, natural gas electrical output rose by 1.8 percent and nuclear-generated electricity increased by only 0.4 percent while coal-generated electricity dropped by 5.7 percent.

102 Comments

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Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
July 28, 2011
Someone unable to rise above "Anonymous" talks about "honesty"? Really. 10,000 comedians out of work and what do we have!?

Then we have the religious advertiser -- what can one say about a self-appointed "God's Little Helper"?

Your obtuse remarks suggest you know your own weakness of argument.

Those of us who understand the value of facts support many sources of power, including local solar & improved nuclear. Sorry to be concerned with reality rather than ignorant bias. But relax, you'll benefit from the many others who do in fact work from honest appraisals of nature.

Oh, and keep eating those bananas -- their 40K will mask any radiation you pick up from Fukushima or even Chernobyl.
;]
Paul Felix Schott
Paul Felix Schott
July 28, 2011
I will take note if i need one that is a mouthpiece for the nuclear industry that has been payed to speak about what the world no longer wants. We know where you are. Solar Energy Is a bright Light to the World why be part of the Dull Scope.
The world (disapproval) of Nuclear is something you cannot accept. Financial advisers and consulted for Nuclear are now a DIME A DOZEN and boring Look for a new Brighter Career Solar Energy. i to have been a mouthpiece, many times for are Lord GOD Jesus Christ
and the Good never taking a penny for it.
The Lord's little Helper
Paul Felix Schott
ANONYMOUS
July 28, 2011
Hi:

The good doctor likes to tout honesty. What about twisting facts and leaving out important concepts. Tainted sprouts will never work their way through the DNA food chain for decades upon decades like C137 does.
I would rather play Russian Roulette with a water pistol loaded in every chamber, than a real gun with 1000 chambers and one lead bullet.
The simple problem that anyone knows with the Nuke option is when the worst happens the damage is non reversible and horrific in its symptoms to life, forever.
Since you are so IN LOVE with the nuke option and its potential for profit, why don't you go buy some land around Chernobyl or Fukushima and live there with ALL your family members.
It would be great to have willing subjects. After all, what's to fear!! We can study you as you slip away from cancer to cancer, operation to operation.. They could make a reality show of it. They can call it, 'The Atomic Subjects: Death during Life.', to air on the Fox network.... Its a hit, I can see it now...
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
July 28, 2011
Paul's enterprising alert to dangers of mismanagement is laudable. Let's see, how many died at GE's plant?

In contrast, the Germans' "alarm horns" also failed to sound as many folks there were fed tainted sprouts from Saxony. 18 or so died.

How many German's have ever died working in, or living near, German nukes? You know the answer Paul -- same as at your GE site.

So, indeed: "How smart are we if we play like we are the smartest yet lose your Soul" to fibbery & misrepresentation & disingenuousness? Paul?

Honesty about reality is the mark of true science & engineering, and is their soul. Remarks like Paul's are political propaganda, which we know have no soul.
Paul Felix Schott
Paul Felix Schott
July 21, 2011
Homeland Security Daily Open Source Infrastructure Report for 21 July 2011

Nuclear Reactors, Materials and Waste Sector
9. July 19, 2011 – (North Carolina) GE unit halts nuclear fuel output over alarm hitch. General Electric Co's nuclear fuel unit Global Nuclear Fuels (GNF) has suspended manufacturing since July 14 at its North Carolina facility after warning horns failed to operate properly during a safety system test, GNF reported to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC). The report posted on the commission Web site explained that the alarm system at the facility north of Wilmington failed to immediately activate the horns as designed during the test. GNF said the problem was a hardware failure, specifically a capacitor on a circuit board, and the system had been repaired. All production activities were shut down and personnel were being kept away from the manufacturing area, the company said. In its report to the NRC, the company said it had determined that problems with the warning system had existed at the time of previous tests in May and June, but at the time they were "not adequately identified and thus not reported". Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/19/nuclear-ge-idUSN1E76I0JA20110719

How smart are we if we play like we are the smartest yet lose your Soul.

The Lord's Little Helper
Paul Felix Schott
david walters
david walters
July 20, 2011
It is OFF TOPIC. You could post this nonsense to any blog on the web with your POV. I want to discuss renewable energy, not god, gods or godesses. It is an intellectual arrogance for you to try to HIJACK this discussion.

The term for this is "pollution". When you introduce a theme in a thread that is *obviously* outside the parameters of any discussion. Stop, please.
Phil Manke
Phil Manke
July 20, 2011
You may think this complicates our world view, but I disagree. It makes it far easier to grasp in my own mind. If I accept that I made the world, (in my mind), I must also accept that I am responsible for it, this world I see. As such, I am free to change the world I see,nand accept that my opinion of the world is only that, my opinion. It is not reality, just what I think I see of it.
I see so many minds attempting to establish omniscient world views for government and energy production on the REW blog. yet, perhaps many can work in their own way, if we accept that they are attempts at achieving happiness, which all world views reach for.
We may reach a concensus that there is a conciousness in us that has a common acceptance in mind beyond the separate one we made. When this happens, a rapid escalation of world co-operation may ensue. At the least, it may occur for those who accept it and extend it as their own. Contrary to some often held belief, their is no fear in this mindset, which I believe is what limits advancement. Fighting what we think is wrong is wrong. We can just let it go, and merely support what we believe is right instead. The essence of democracy, I feel. Perhaps it is best summed up in this way;
Nothing real can be threatened.
Nothing unreal exists.
Herein lies the Peace Of God.
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
July 20, 2011
Gotta love it: "because we do not understand" gets rephrased as: "belief in what we think we are determines what we believe, and what we believe this world is for."

Convoluted? Self referential? Apart from the hubris, for a species very new to this planet (and not doing so well), the writers play with words with abandon, apparently not realizing both the incompleteness all our thinking entails.
david walters
david walters
July 20, 2011
Introducing religious themes here, god-belief, etc is totally outside the bounds of this discussion. It's a distraction from the serious issues raised in THIS entry. Really, take it someplace else. If you notice no one is responding to any of this.
Phil Manke
Phil Manke
July 20, 2011
Well, it may not seem appropriate for this blog, but at the same time, everything hinges on it. I.E., the belief in what we think we are determines what we believe, and what we believe this world is for. ( I had another (over)2K char's deleted on this). Our spiritual makeup and understanding is crucial to getting along in an ever more populated and seemingly diverse world. Yet, as many differences as we seem to have, there are certain common characteristics that are humanly universal. Until we understand this more fully, we may not be able to get along with the common respect necessary on this crowded rock. I must balance this with the perception that I am some sort of "know-it-all". Not so at all. I am merely tapping into the conciousness that we all have within our "God given Mind".
Why look at it? Because not understanding this, is the reason, or rather the lack of reason, that brings us all the pain and suffering in the world today, and it will get worse before it gets better. Their is an expression in the ministry that says; "the egos tolerance for pain is high, but it is not without limit". This tipping point is reached in many of our minds at various times.
My point is that we must continually look at our "stuff" we generate to decide what of it is real and what is not. Every thot comes under one of two catagories in the mind of man, if sanity is valued; real or unreal. Only what is real is true. Only what is false is not true. On the face of it this must seem obvious, but yet many of us believe in partial reality, and this gives us a split in conciousness that can only be described as insanity because it expects what is impossible to happen, and yet for the mind versed in illusion, it can almost seem to be true, so good are we at making illusions seem real. We begin this process at a very early age, and call it "loss of innocense". Perhaps because "in no sense" is it real. (and college philosophy only looks at many "theorems of reality").
William Fitch
William Fitch
July 20, 2011
Hi:

Normally once I EOL a thread, I do not return.... and I don't break this rule... however in this case I will comment not on the topic of the thread but Phils last "remarks". JC Phil.!! Where are you going with this..??.. Don't get me wrong, I loved Philosophy in College... one of my best subjects... however all this has nothing to do with the progression of special interests in this country in ALL areas, not just energy.
FACTS:
The middle class is being systematically wiped out.
The Tea Party is the party for corporations.
The Democratic party is a party for corporations.
The same puppeteers hold the strings. They make them appear different for the illusion of choice, but in the end game all that is left is those on the inside of the castle walls and those on the outside... no middle.
We are in the beginnings of a real class revolution in this country. The current fabricated debt ceiling fiasco is going to gut main stay programs for the middle class and poor while benefiting corporations. The illusion of reps vs dems with the dems being the good guys is a rouse, so that when the dems finally get "their" choosen package, the masses will think all is well and fine. Remember Wall Street was/is one of Obama's biggest contributors. Look at the ban on Fracking in NY being lifted by Cuomo!! His tall Blonde girl friend food channel success and who she is the paid mouth piece for!! This list is endless and is taking this country down. The pay off is in from the Supreme court on down. No place in Government is left untouched!! Remember the movie, "The Pelican Brief". Compared to what has already been done in the real world, that movie is a bedtime fairy tail of "light" proportions.
Your above concerns... OK fine but get with the real devastating problems that are right at the door step. They are 100% real, in your face with NO DOUBT or belief required!!!

.....Bill
Phil Manke
Phil Manke
July 20, 2011
Oh my. "Must banish talk of gods because we do not understand." Such is the fear of people today. If you, or I, or anyone, believes God is unneccessary, the advancement of the human race is non-existant. The thot of not understanding God, who understands you, means we fear the idea, and are believing in nothing, because fear is the belief that closing off is beneficial, and being separate is valued. In the fearful mind their is no thought, only memory of the past, which is not creative at all. Yes, all the ideas of the world you believe you see with your eyes are nothing because they are based on belief in the past, that is remembered by a flawed and false mind. The false mind is so because it is insane, believing in two separate ideas about itself. The mind can heal the body, it is the only thing that can. But the body, which the separate mind believes in, cannot do anything without the direction of the mind. Yet, you did not make the part of your mind that is real. It was given to you before you thot of your will to make the mind apart, which free will gave you the right to do, even tho it is not real. This is the ego. It is not real because it is not shared or extended, which the one true mind does. It is not shared because it is not real. Only the true mind, or God, can be shared, because it is the only true mind, being based in truth itself.
Much false information about God is bantered about today, largely because of religion, which is a set of collective ego ideas to make a set of beliefs seem real. I feel better in a mind of de-ligion. All belief is a prison, and makes thot ridgid and unyielding. These ideas may seem to contradict all you have learned about the world, and this is largely true, because the world, as you believe it is, is an illusion made in your mind, and supported by all your thots and experiences from your past. Only reason supports what is true, and this you had when you began this life in a body.
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
July 20, 2011
Interesting that "DOD" is but one letter away from "GOD".
;]

Despite that, talking about God (or Gods) is unnecessary and irrelevant, even weakening one's expressed opinions here.
Paul Felix Schott
Paul Felix Schott
July 19, 2011
News From the Pentagon Clean Fuel Energy From the Sun July 19, 2011
In Hawaii The Department of Defense will start to cover its Military Family Housing with Solar Energy. This will greatly help stop the need for Oil in the Hawaii Islands. This is just the start to the D.O.D. reducing its 4 billion dollar need for Dirty Energy. From now on the D.O.D. will look to Renewable Energy, Clean Energy. The Hawaiian Islands will see the Largest Solar covered homes and housing Roofs in the World 6,000 units. Thanks to William Lynn Deputy Secretary of the Defense and Steven Chu Secretary of Energy and to many others. The D.O.D. has some 300,000 building the day will come when all will be powered by Clean Energy. i can not thank all that made this happen enough.
GOD Bless
United We Stand In GOD We Will Always Trust
Story By
The Lord's Little Helper
Paul Felix Schott
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
July 18, 2011
And, Paul, those of us engineers, environmentalists & scientists who've been working one way or another to see PV assume its very natural, reasonable place within & on communities, are happy too.
Paul Felix Schott
Paul Felix Schott
July 18, 2011
The United States Solar Energy Industry with its more cost effective PV and quick timely thinking by its CEO's into the Fastest Growing Industry in the World. Will in North American more then double that of 2010 by the end of this year 2011. Making photovoltaic installations the fastest growing jobs in us History.

Thank GOD
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
July 18, 2011
Thanks for that health physics ref Rod. And for anyone wanting to read more on the subject, comment 33 above has more.
Rod Adams
Rod Adams
July 18, 2011
@clee

The initial evacuation of the area immediately around Fukushima Daiichi was a prudent decision and it was well managed considering the circumstances.

Targeted evacuations of areas with measured radiation dose rates high enough to exceed normal nuclear worker allowable dose rates would probably make sense - those allowable limits are set way below the level at which any health effects can be detected.

Circular evacuation zones remaining in place months after reactors are shutdown is patently political and being used as a distraction by a government that is embattled because of many of its other poor decisions. Keeping people from their homes and telling them that it is because you are worried about their safety because of something done by the 'big bad power company' is a good way to deflect the criticism that the government deserves to receive.

The health effects of low level radiation have been widely exaggerated for many decades. Here is a link to a recent post about just one of many peer reviewed papers that are challenging our current standards and regulations as being based on very conservative assumptions made long before we knew much about the actual effects.

http://atomicinsights.com/2011/07/a-little-radiation-can-delay-cancer-until-after-you-are-dead-anyway.html

Those conservative assumptions were then gradually tightened over the years to make clean ups more expensive (that provides more revenue for the contractors who are doing the clean up) and to increase the cost of nuclear energy so that it would be less competitive with fossil fuel and stop taking so much market share from the dominant fossil fuel companies who considered the sales that nuclear was making 'theirs'.

Back to the main point - virtually no one should still be evacuated and kept from their home if the home is not otherwise damaged by the earthquake and tsunami.
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
July 18, 2011
Just a comment on "negative affect of nuclear power is that it is of a centrally controlled nature" -- actually, not at all the necessity. Each of our nuclear-powered ships has a very modest reactor right in the midst of a captive community of as many as thousands of sailors.

Russia has had such as icebreakers for decades and is now floating a fleet of 300MW reactor ships to serve their arctic reaches, now that we've burned enough coal to melt the place.

Every spacecraft we send beyond the asteroid belt holds a nuke of some form, simply because solar out there is inadequate.

The military has long wanted reliable, shippable, nuclear power for theater support. And, the original salt reactor was designed for an atomic plane. There's no reason why safer versions of fission reactors can't be of industrial size and positioned close to such loads. This, in fact, is one of the goals of DoE's Generation-IV reactor designs, one of which is molten salt, capable of eliminating Uranium mining/processing & most waste.

Efficiency, local solar PV & storage and safe, local nukes fill the bill for thousands of years.
Rod Adams
Rod Adams
July 17, 2011
@clee

While LILCO was certainly not blameless and its experience with a failed nuclear project was not completely unique, there were some special circumstances associated with the Shoreham Nuclear Power Station.

The unions were corrupt. Often, the day shift found that the night shift had torn apart the work that the day shift had just completed.

There was a well funded and dedicated group of opponents that made every step take longer and cost more money. I have a post on my blog of an ad taken out in a local Long Island paper trying to scare people about nuclear energy, encouraging them to fight the plant and telling them that solar was a much better solution. At the bottom of the ad is a credit for the sponsor of the ad - the Oil Heat Institute of Long Island.

http://atomicinsights.com/2010/01/smoking-gun-part-18-an-oldie-but-a-goodie-oil-heat-institute-of-long-island-ad-using-scare-tactics-to-fight-shoreham.html

After about 15-20 years of difficult slogging, LILCO finally completed the plant and got a license to perform low power critical testing. However, when they we ready for their operating license so they could finally begin to generate at least some revenue from the plant, the a local or state official (I cannot remember which) named Cuomo refused to sign off on the evacuation plan. That prevented the plant from ever operating.

$5.9 billion down the drain because of a silly decision. The reason it was silly is because there would never have been any need to evacuate the area to protect human life. There were enough layers of protection to do the job, even with cascading failures of increasingly unlikely nature.
ANONYMOUS
July 17, 2011
Hello:

The biggest "devil" in this case I was referring to is actually the IAEA. They were/are in charge of any report from the UN as well as the WHO. The WHO has had an agreement with the IAEA from the 70's that any report they are going to issue that has a Nuclear aspect to it, must first be reviewed by the IAEA. Any studies that come to light outside this Fox guarded hen house gets ridiculed and down played if the data doesn't line up to their promotional agenda. It is a censored and controlled release of information much like the main stream journalists embedded with the USA forces in the Iraq war. All info released was filtered and areas of information restricted as well as even the physical areas they were even allowed into. So the news was always controlled and spewed the meanings to fit the "picture" the USA and allies wanted.
Aside from that overriding factor which is huge, there are many interesting areas to the report which people are free for themselves to look at providing they can get a clean download.
I remember seeing someone on this thread suggesting a pointless to argue aspect to conversing with pro Atomic people. I think I will take that to heart.
Rod Adams
Rod Adams
July 17, 2011
@phil-manke

You, of course, have every right to that opinion. However, most Americans seem quite happy to off-load the responsibility of providing reliable electricity to others. They like having power whenever they want it, with the rather simple and affordable task of paying their bill each month. My dad, one of the most admirable and generous people I ever knew, was an electrical engineer with the local power company. He was proud to take part in storm training every month so that he could help restore electrical service after the hurricanes and tropical storms that occasionally knocked down the power lines in our South Florida home.

In addition to providing reliable, cost effective service to customers, most of the profits of the large enterprise that Dad worked for went to stockholders - at the time, electric utility stocks were favorites for widows and orphans because of their reliable dividend checks and non volatile prices. My widowed mother still gets checks from the stocks that dad bought in his employee investment account.

I happen to have been fortunate enough to have had a very close personal relationship with a rather modest sized nuclear power plant on board my submarine. It was a terrific and reliable shipmate.

Over the years, I have met several people who served at even smaller nuclear facilities in Antarctica and Greenland - those plants were tiny, with fuel rods that were only about as long as a man's arm. They were assembled in months, not years.

There is nothing about nuclear energy that is inherently centralized.

Everyone who fights against its use without understanding its nature is either purposely or unwittingly selling fossil fuel because that is the only alternative source if you really need reliable power. Industry, including the industry that produces solar panels, absolutely depends on having reliable power in order to do its work.

Rod Adams
Publisher, Atomic Insights
Phil Manke
Phil Manke
July 17, 2011
Perhaps the greater negative affect of nuclear power is that it is of a centrally controlled nature, apart from the end user, and proffitably extractive of end user valuing, (going to whom?). You who favor it's use surely must have that profit motive in mind. It cannot be your will for perfect happiness, because their is fear in it, which is the same as any form of attack or war, no matter the cause.
Everyone who does not approve of nuclear produced energy is not a fossil fuel pusher. Previous statements about nuke safety are valued like hogwash, no matter the plethora of your "facts and non-proveable proof". It is of absolute corporate and government control, and that alone makes it murderous to the free will of man.
Rod Adams
Rod Adams
July 17, 2011
@Anonymous (BTW - I really wish that people who want to engage in serious discussion would use their real names.)

My point is that even with all of the incompetence (or planned malice of forethought) associated with the destruction of the Chernobyl Unit 4 nuclear power plant, the consequences are no where near as bad as some people have aggressively promoted over the years.

Yes, there were several dozen deaths, many of which were caused by sending untrained people into dangerous areas without proper protective equipment. Many of the people who died as first responders were performing tasks that did not need to be done, especially at the risk of life. (I spent some time as a first responder and team leader for fires, flooding and other casualties while in the Navy.)

The general public outside of the gates of the facility were exposed to a dangerous, short lived radioisotope called I-131, which tends to concentrate in the human thyroid. If there are excessive levels of that isotope around, we know what to do about it - take potassium iodide tablets. (Do not do that unless there are elevated levels of I-131, however.) Do not drink milk and do not eat leafy vegetables until the material has had a chance to decay. It is completely gone in about 80 days.

Otherwise, there is no real risk to the general public. They should not have their lives significantly disrupted any more than they would be for a fire at a refinery or a leak at a chemical facility.

Nuclear energy is far safer than the alternatives for reliable power. The consequences of even the worst possible accident have proven that it acceptably safe.

It is also cleaner and cheaper.

Petroleum pushers have spent decades and tons of money convincing you otherwise.

Rod Adams
Publisher, Atomic Insights
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
July 17, 2011
Just in support of what Rod has valiantly tried to get through, anyone bringing Chernobyl into a discussion of nuclear power anywhere else int he world simply exhibits ignorance or deviousness. No one but the Russians ever designed & ran inherently unstable reactors like those used in Chernobyl.

To cite Chernobyl as anything but evidence of designer, operator and emergency-responder incompetence is to suggest one take up fire breathing as a profession, and inhale.
;]
But, if someone actually wants to learn about the realities of natural & artificial radiation, these are useful...

Radiation and Health, T. Henriksen, H. Maillie, Taylor & Francis, New York, USA, 2003.

Radiation and Reason, W. Allison, York Publishing, York, UK, 2009.

And, a nice comparison of 3-Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima CT scans & bananas is here...
http://blog.xkcd.com/2011/03/19/radiation-chart/
Rod Adams
Rod Adams
July 17, 2011
@Anonymous:

And here is what the UN Scientific Commission on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR) study on Chernobyl says about solid cancers:

"(d) Conclusions
D196. There appears at present to be no persuasive evidence of any measurable increased incidence of all cancers combined or breast cancer alone among the general populations of the Russian Federation and Ukraine. There also appears to be no pattern of increased incidence of solid cancers among the inhabitants of the areas deemed contaminated compared to the inhabitants of the areas deemed uncontaminated, and no difference in the trends with time for areas with different levels of radioactive deposition.

D197. The evidence regarding any increased incidence of solid cancers among recovery operation workers is mixed. Although some groups showed elevated SIRs, statistically significant quantitative risks of increased cancer incidence per unit of additional dose have not been reported. In contrast, two Russian studies reported a dose dependence of the solid cancer mortality rate with a corresponding statistically significant ERR per unit dose."

After describing limitations and cautions, it continues:

"D199. Assessments of statistical power, based on the follow-up to date and using findings from the study of the survivors of the atomic bombings and other studies summarized in annex A of [U1], would suggest that doses in the general population are too low to yield sufficient statistical power to detect any measurable increase in the risk of all solid cancers combined among such individuals exposed to radioactive deposition after the Chernobyl accident. Certainly, empirical studies to date do not suggest that risks are substantially greater than those predicted by risk projection models."

By my way of understanding the world, the studies are saying that there is nothing worth worrying about compared to all of the other hazards of living on earth.
Rod Adams
Rod Adams
July 17, 2011
@Anonymous:

Are there any particular details you think are valuable extractions from the 5.3 MB, couple hundred page document that you linked to? You quoted one of the sayings that Admiral Rickover often repeated - "the devil is in the details", but some people have a tendency to obfuscate with details when the conclusions disagree with their long-held catechisms. The report acknowledges a relationship between thyroid cancers and early exposure to I-131, especially for children.

Here is what it says about leukemia:

"D180. The interest in leukaemia arises because of its known sensitivity to induction by ionizing radiation and also because of its short latent period. So far, no persuasive evidence has been found to suggest that there is a measurable increase in the risk of leukaemia among those exposed in utero and as children. This is not unreasonable given that the doses involved were generally very small, and therefore epidemiological studies would lack sufficient statistical power for an effect to be observed.
D181. Amongst adults, the most meaningful evidence comes from the studies of recovery operation workers. At present, there is some evidence of a detectable effect among a group of recovery operation workers from the Russian Federation, but this is far from conclusive. It would therefore be premature to make a direct comparison between the data obtained from these studies directly with the risk estimates obtained from studies involving high doses and dose-rate (such as of the survivors of the atomic bombings). The limitations discussed earlier of the studies of the recovery operation workers must be borne in mind. Nevertheless, future results from studies of the recovery operation workers will, hopefully, provide meaningful data that can be compared with those from other studies."

Translation - "We did not find evidence of a significant effect after 20 years. However, keep giving us money and maybe we'll find something."
ANONYMOUS
July 16, 2011
Hello:

You might try actually reading the final report. As usual, the devil is in the details...

http://www.unscear.org/docs/reports/2008/11-80076_Report_2008_Annex_D.pdf
Paul Felix Schott
Paul Felix Schott
July 16, 2011
Arizona is going Solar with a collaborative effort led by the Arizona Corporation Commission and implemented by the Electric Utilities in the State of Arizona. Many other States are going to soon do the same.

Montalto di Castro, a town where Italy's last Nuclear Power Plant was built before a two-decade ban, its people is now fighting against a return to atomic power and staking its Future Energy on Solar Energy and will be Hosting Europe's Largest Photovoltaic Park.

GOD Bless them
Paul Felix Schott
Paul Felix Schott
July 16, 2011
Google is helping Lead The Way In Promoting Home Solar Power.
Paul Felix Schott
Paul Felix Schott
July 16, 2011
The United States Department of Energy

RESIDENTIAL RENEWABLE ENERGY TAX CREDITS
Consumers who install solar energy systems (including solar water heating and solar electric systems), small wind systems, geothermal heat pumps, and residential fuel cell and microturbine systems can receive a 30% tax credit for systems placed in service before December 31, 2016; the previous tax credit cap no longer applies.
Paul Felix Schott
Paul Felix Schott
July 16, 2011
The United States Dep. of Defense appropriations bill that U.S. President Barack Obama signed into law contains a provision requiring the military to buy only American made Solar Panels. Lawmakers added the provision over concerns that China unfairly subsidizes its Renewable Energy industries.

This provision was drafted it would be compliant with the World Trade Organization (WTO) Rules, UPI reports.
Paul Felix Schott
Paul Felix Schott
July 16, 2011
Schools around Australia would be able to become more energy efficient following the allocation of $51 million in Federal Government grants announced by the Minister for Climate Change and Energy Efficiency, Greg Combet, and the Parliamentary Secretary, Mark Dreyfus.

The grants of up to $50,000 ($100,000 for multi-campus schools) have been awarded to 1,226 eligible primary and secondary schools around Australia to install solar and other renewable power systems, rainwater tanks and to help implement a range of energy efficiency measures.
Paul Felix Schott
Paul Felix Schott
July 16, 2011
PEARL HARBOR NAVAL SHIPYARD
CONGRESSIONAL & PUBLIC AFFAIRS

Pearl Harbor shipyard photovoltaic system
cuts electricity cost by $89,000
By Marshall Fukuki , Pearl Harbor Naval Shipyard Public Affairs
PEARL HARBOR, Hawaii – The summer sun is helping Pearl Harbor Naval Shipyard go green and reduce its electric bill by $89,000 a year. A $1.7 million photovoltaic (PV) system on the rooftop of Building 167 was completed June 1. About 1,300 solar panels were installed that together will generate at least 250 kilowatts of power during peak daylight hours, or more than 455,000 kilowatt hours of energy annually.
"Hawaii depends on petroleum for nearly ninety percent of its energy requirements and all of that oil has to be imported," said Shipyard Commander Capt. Brian Osgood. "This photovoltaic system uses the power of the sun as a long-term source of environmentally clean, renewable energy. It's another step toward making the Shipyard and the Navy less dependent on oil."
Rod Adams
Rod Adams
July 16, 2011
@PaulFelixSchott

The international community of scientists and medical professionals that performed detailed studies of the health effects of the Chernobyl accident do not agree with your tales of woe.

http://www.unscear.org/unscear/en/chernobyl.html

"Apart from the dramatic increase in thyroid cancer incidence among those exposed at a young age, and some indication of an increased leukaemia and cataract incidence among the workers, there is no clearly demonstrated increase in the incidence of solid cancers or leukaemia due to radiation in the exposed populations. Neither is there any proof of other non-malignant disorders that are related to ionizing radiation. However, there were widespread psychological reactions to the accident, which were due to fear of the radiation, not to the actual radiation doses."

Here are the study's conclusions

"The accident at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant in 1986 was a tragic event for its victims, and those most affected suffered major hardship. Some of the people who dealt with the emergency lost their lives. Although those exposed as children and the emergency and recovery workers are at increased risk of radiation-induced effects, the vast majority of the population need not live in fear of serious health consequences due to the radiation from the Chernobyl accident. For the most part, they were exposed to radiation levels comparable to or a few times higher than annual levels of natural background, and future exposures continue to slowly diminish as the radionuclides decay. Lives have been seriously disrupted by the Chernobyl accident, but from the radiological point of view, generally positive prospects for the future health of most individuals should prevail."
Paul Felix Schott
Paul Felix Schott
July 16, 2011
Many that lived in Belarus some only three years old at the time of the Chernobyl disaster were diagnosed with cancer then of the lungs and uterus from the air and water. According to many of the local doctors in this region large areas of Belarus, Ukraine, Russia and beyond has seen a huge increase in childhood cancer cases since the Chernobyl disaster. They all were contaminated in varying degrees from the Chernobyl disaster.

The Nuclear Age is ending and all with good wisdom know this only the wicked fight for evil. The World's ability to choose and inspire others to use Renewable Energy. Is why Solar and Wind is the Fastest Growing Industry In The World.

May our Lord God Bless all that do good for others in His name.

The Lord's little Helper
Paul Felix Schott
Rod Adams
Rod Adams
July 16, 2011
@Anonymous:

I suggest additional research. Here is a starting point:

http://atomicinsights.com/2011/07/a-little-radiation-can-delay-cancer-until-after-you-are-dead-anyway.html
ANONYMOUS
July 16, 2011
Hello:

I admire a person who can follow their passion. However, your blood cells, and your children's health (if you have kids) may give you their opinion down the road.
Nuclear energy is slowly poisoning our planet. Like a snails movement it is happening at a pace that mostly goes unnoticed by the masses. Studies that show the connections over the decades have a hard time making it to light due to the controlling business interests. Killing ourselves with our byproducts of energy acquisition is hardly limited to nuclear energy. You will find those that believe all this is known and being allowed because it is a way to control population growth and make money at the same time from cause implementation through treatment. After all since we have not controlled our numbers in an agreed upon fashion, seemly blameless approaches are viable. I will not weigh in on whether this reality is deliberate or not.
RE offers energy with a substantially reduced "poison" trail from cradle to grave. Not to make this one of our number one goals is travesty to all that inhabit this planet.
Rod Adams
Rod Adams
July 16, 2011
@Anonymous

Oh how I wish that my Atomic Show and my Atomic Insights hobbies paid well.

I have a dog in the fight - I am an engineer/analyst working as part of a large team of well-educated and trained professionals who are designing an integral pressurized water reactor called the B&W mPower(TM) reactor. I joined the team in September 2010 after retiring from the US Navy.

I once left the full time Navy and joined the part time Navy so I could pursue an idea that I developed in my spare time. The mission then (1993-1999) was to design closed cycle gas turbine power plants heated by pebble bed reactors. The Adams Engine(TM) was a little early out of the blocks - we were trying to build small modular reactors at a time when there was little interest. Natural gas was selling for about $1.80 per million BTU and "everyone" was predicting that it would only slowly increase in price over the next few decades.

About the time I went back into the full time Navy, gas prices started to do what we had been predicting for several years - they climbed rather dramatically.

Just before high energy prices contributed to the economic collapse of the world's economy, the price of natural gas in the US peaked at about $14 per million BTU, 7 times the level that drove AAE into a deep sleep.

That is my story. I remain convinced that fission - the stuff that allowed my 9,000 ton submarine to patrol the oceans for 14 years on a mass of fuel that weighs a bit more than I do without producing any emissions at all - is the best source of heat for the world's economy.

I also remain convinced that most people marketing renewables are either knowingly or unwittingly working for multinational petroleum pushers who know that fission is the only competition that can drive the profits out of their obscenely prosperous enterprise of feeding society's addiction to reliable energy.

Rod Adams
Publisher, Atomic Insights
Host and producer Atomic Show
ANONYMOUS
July 15, 2011
Hello:

Rods with the Atomic Show Podcasts et all. No wonder you are so pro nuke. It has paid you well over the years I am sure. It is always good to know ones perspective, from which they speak.

Renewable Energy for a safer future.
Rod Adams
Rod Adams
July 15, 2011
@David - excellent points. The complexity of the cost comparisons between various sources of energy lead me to believe that the only correct answer is "it depends."

That is not true with regard to the reliability issue. I have put my life into the hands of the reliability of the power from a single nuclear reactor. I would NEVER dream of doing such a thing with regard to any so called "renewable" power source.
David Bradish
David Bradish
July 15, 2011
Clee, you said: "New nuclear isn't looking so cheap from the NEI's numbers."

The first source you cite from our report, with or without nuclear risk premium, actually comes from MIT. We also cited EIA in the report as well as the National Research Council and several utilities. If you read our report closely, the cost of nuclear (as well as all technologies) depends on a large number of factors. In some places nuclear is competitive, in other places it's not.

Since May when we published the cost report, some new numbers have come out which are quite telling. SCANA which is one of two utilities in the lead for building the AP1000 shared their cost estimates with investors. Here are the highlights: http://neinuclearnotes.blogspot.com/2011/06/scanas-analyst-day-new-nuclear.html

And here is some text:

"SCANA provided their all-in cost estimates for nuclear ($76/MWh), natural gas ($81/MWh), coal ($117/MWh), offshore wind ($292/MWh) and solar ($437/MWh). For them, 'new nuclear continues to be the low cost alternative for customers.'"

The pictures are pretty sweet at the link above, you should check it out.

One more thing, you obviously didn't notice but the "unnumbered" pages in our cost report were actually numbered in the top left icon of every page. I'll pass that along to our Creative Services division to see if we could make that more obvious for the next update.

This is a great discussion. If you want to see another perspective on EIA's renewable and nuclear numbers, see here: http://neinuclearnotes.blogspot.com/2011/07/top-secret-eyes-only-blog-post.html

There are charts on renewables and nuclear at the link above to show how energy production has changed over time. They can explain the numbers much better than words.

Best,
David Bradish
NEI
david walters
david walters
July 15, 2011
Bill, I'm not twisting what you said. I'm responding to your seeming advocacy here of "personal solutions" instead of understanding that we need a *societal* solution to generating electricity. That "you do this" is wholly irrelevant to this discussion. It solves nothing as the majority of Americans live in areas that can't do what you are doing. I can't. Industry can't. The development of human civilization has always been predicating on utilization energy in ever more efficient, abundant, cheap and denser ways. In order to run the steel industry in the mid-west or the auto-industry in Ohio and Michigan or a high speed rail network or making refrigerators (and using them) we need a grid that is powered by cheap and reliable energy.

The blog entry here doesn't lead in this direction, it leads away from it. That was point.
William Fitch
William Fitch
July 15, 2011
Hi:

Didn't say off grid was THE goal, wasn't promoting it. All that I said was I would be off grid capable.
Once again as I mentioned above, paper tigers, twisting what a person says, etc.. are all tired words about a situation that doesn't have to exist.
And BTW, I am not rich, I do everything myself and my payback will end up being about 8 to 9 years with monies available, about 16 to 17 years if there was no help at all.

EOL...

.....Bill
Phil Manke
Phil Manke
July 15, 2011
"Good On Yah, Willie'Fitch", I make over twice the power we use here, and the Ute still nicks me $10 a month because of dollar-a-day "connection charges". So I install more.
I sympathize with (lftr in #62). I've saved my whole life for this, so now I do it. Not everyone can, I know, but not everyone sees the need to provide a cushion for the lies of poluticians and commerce (read "wall street"). Still, I am lucky, and grateful for some vision. You still have a voice, and a vote. If we had a national SREC program with a substantial solar carveout we could all, (that is, whoever had the will to) have solar energy production equipment at home siomply because it would be immediately cost effective, including the cost of the money.
Consider the 1930's when the government instituted the Rural Electrification Authority. In a few years the whole country was gridded with wires. Why don't we encourage a Public Production Subsidy Program which would reward electric production or Heat Production Wattage rated solely by production, not gold standard equipment, and pay out accordingle, with large producers receiving wholedale prices and home scale systems getting much more. We would see massive solar addoption in a few years, as Germany, Spain, and Italy has seen "when they maintained their programs".
It amazes me how many people vote for politicians who are screwing them and bragging to them about it. One definition of stupid is "The deliberate cultivation of ignorance". If you cannot change your mind, nothing else will change either, and you will see "hell" as your reward. It is really that simple. The way out of hell is to change how you see the purpose of the world, and the entire universe changes direction in an instant. No need to ask for God's blessing, you already have that, all you need, really. Ask rather to see things differently, and it is done. Seeing is not done with the bodies eyes, you know.
david walters
david walters
July 15, 2011
Bill, how nice for you. Good to have money, huh? I live in foggy Pacifica, CA. I make a working class income and with some financially motivated CF bulbs, my total electric bill is $45 a month. I've ask two of the very few homeowners in my town that have PV how long it will take to pay it off. They said, basically, never, as they have only halved their bill by (40%). But then I, me, my neighbors, paid for this little boutique luxury they have through our taxes.

"We have the ability to relegate most of our total energy load to solar, wind, geo, hydro and RE biomass today" Bill, IS a lie...it can't be done which is why there is not a country in the world doing this. You are speaking terms of 'empty rhetoric' and fantasy.

Of course without the grid they couldn't do their PV as there simply is no way to store the amount of power they need throughout the dark foggy nights. The *entire* basis of PV is having it Grid Integrated. There would be no solar PV industry *at all* without the regulatory legislation that mandates money back from PG&E.

The factories that make PV can't be powered to even 10% by PV itself...they need the grid. Try making copper and aluminum with "PV". You need a grid 24/7 to make the *massive* industries capable of making everything you use in your little Oz there. Thank the gods for the Grid.

Go "off grid" is a middle-class yuppie fantasy that isn't applicable where most of us live. We can neither afford it nor does it do a damn for lowering carbon emissions. You've presented ZERO facts about saying we can
William Fitch
William Fitch
July 15, 2011
Hi:

"As a customer you may feel helpless and have no control over the ability of any particular plant to operate."
As of early next year I will be producing 125% of usage, not only powering my res but an electric car down the road. Just an FYI.
I cannot control the plant down the road, but I can give back more than I take.. and yes I will be off-grid capable as well.
I just find this whole discussion funny and sad at this point. The solutions are obvious and the revolvement around money vs engineering in most arguments is stale. We have the ability to relegate most of our total energy load to solar, wind, geo, hydro and RE biomass today. All nukes could go away and allot of the coal. CO2 would be brought under control, the threat of a Fukushima level disaster eliminated and a better world for all.
Instead its the same tired rhetoric, denial of well know facts and severe risks for profit and possibilities of problem solving implementations ignored. It is like watching weeds grow in a way. You pull them out but they keep popping back up. We have the answers to solve our problems.
It is the fact that we built a world on currency that stands in the way of knowledge being implemented. So, we will continue to ignore solutions for profit until such a time that we don't. We are at a turning point here in the USA. Corporations own the gov. so people no longer have a REAL voice. Rights are being stripped away, simultaneously truth and accountability are being removed for the controlling business entities. Binding arbitration being slipped into all kinds of contracts for the masses mostly under their RADAR. Unions under attack, statesmanship a lost phylum which has given way to "reality stars" for president (unbeliveable).
The time is not business as usual but a culmination of a progression which was started long ago.
You may choose to blow it off as politics, what else is new, it's the way it is, etc. or what ever "sound bite" is to your liking.

.....Bill
Rod Adams
Rod Adams
July 15, 2011
@Anonymous

I am with you with respect to wanting proof of the pudding. Please wake me up when there is a wind or solar plant that is selling power to the grid that does not require at least 30% of the cost to be borne directly by taxpayers, a mandated set aside and an elevated guaranteed price for power that is produced at the whim of the weather.
Rod Adams
Rod Adams
July 15, 2011
@DrAlexC:

I never pretend to speak for anyone else, much less the wide range of people who favor the use of nuclear energy.

I am personally adamantly opposed to the use of solar energy as currently implemented because it is a huge waste of my money. Every single project that is built requires enormous subsidies - in some cases as much as 90% of the cost of the installation is paid for by taxpayers.

I have a produced a video about one such project in Boston where the owner of the installation is a wealthy heir to a real estate fortune who received 60% of the cost of a large installation from state taxpayers and 30% from federal taxpayers, yet he claimed that the system was a great advance. Another part of the story is that this particular solar "entrepreneur" spent several months in jail after trespassing on private property while protesting the construction of a nuclear power plant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHpte0umrUE

@Clee

You did, in fact, quote NEI and apparently believe that the number with a "risk premium" is the accurate one. That may be true, but I wonder about the precision of the numbers associated with natural gas and coal. Take a look at the price history of those fuels and tell me how anyone can predict what they will cost in the future. 90% of the cost of owning and operating a gas burning plant is buying the fuel. For coal, fuel cost drives between 60-80% of the total ownership cost.

@william-fitch

As a customer you may feel helpless and have no control over the ability of any particular plant to operate. On average, however, nuclear plants in the US have been at 90% of their maximum capacity year over year for the past 10 years. Each year there are a dozen or more plants that run at 100% power for the entire year; commercial nuclear plants only need to be refueled every 18-24 months. In contrast, every solar plant in the country has at least 365 outages lasting 10-15 hours every single year.
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
July 15, 2011
Well, Clee, your likening us to "Jehovah's Witnesses" & agents of Catholicism (which JVs aren't), etc. seemed to imply a blinkered view on those of us who recognize nuke power's benefits and range. But, having already been condemned to Hell by a neighborhood priest when only 7, perhaps I'm just too sensitive?
;]

And, you do exhibit wanton nuclear ignorance by citing the NEI, which is an LWR industry organ. It has indeed been part of the great uptime improvements for nukes over the last decades -- via innovative ideas, like cooperative training & sharing of safety procedures. Yet it represents only a narrow part of nuclear power -- the part we were to be rid of a decade ago.

But you don't care about facts like that, right? Again, what bond will you post to cover any success you may have in preventing our successful competition with China on safe, cheap nuclear power and water systems marketing across the world?
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
July 14, 2011
Unfortunately, for William & Clee, the argument isn't that solar power is not a key future source. So, arguing pro-nukes folks are anti-solar is, how to say it, a lie.

However, we must indeed deal with variability of all renewables, and you both know this. We have improving storage, which will also benefit vehicular designs relatively soon. There are many promising, safe storage options, and there is inevitable improvement in solar PV efficiency.

But, if the environment, food production, clean water, etc. are indeed important, we need long-term, 24-hour, high power-density sources as well. Solar cells will never fly a transport jet, for example. So, honest appraisal, rather than weak derision, is what we all need.

Continuing to hold up the earliest nuclear technology as the standard example of cost/danger is dishonest, especially when many wise folks decades ago knew LWRs should be temporary and so told our governments.

It only detracts from arguments like the above from W & C that they seem to not understand what "nuclear power" means. And, worse, they seem not to care. So, we know not to rely on what they say.

Unfortunately, others may be misled too, so we, and the rest of the world, may indeed end up buying safe nuclear power and water sources from China, as they proceed with all the non-LWR R&D we did long ago, that delivers kWHrs for 1/2 of any of Clee's numbers above. Or, maybe C & W consider the Chinese dumb?

The question then, for folks like C & W, who mislead from ignorant bias, is how much should you commit to pay the rest of humanity for future effects of your bad advice?
William Fitch
William Fitch
July 14, 2011
Hi:

OK, the answer is simple, the real solution is...
wait...GD.. the power just went out, this is unbelieveable!! The Susquehanna Steam Electric Station (Berwick Nuke) which is about 5 miles down the road from me, has been off line for more than two weeks, not producing a shred of electric energy do to cracked turbine blades found when refueling the one reactor, so they had to shut both them down as a result. There goes that over cautiousness again...
Will get back to you when the power comes back on...

.....Bill
Rod Adams
Rod Adams
July 14, 2011
@william-fitch

Glad to provide you with high quality laughter. However, please share the explanation for your mirth with all of the rest of us. I have watched the weather with great interest for more than half a century. Jobs like lifeguard, camp counselor, sailor, and Naval officer all require significant awareness of ambient conditions.

Though I have admired the great variability of the weather, I have never figured out how to control what I saw.

If you have a way to control the power output of the wind during high pressure periods or the sun between daily setting and rising, please share.
William Fitch
William Fitch
July 14, 2011
Hi:

Wow... another good read with lots of smiles and laughs.
Phil, buddy, you are beating your head against a wall trying to dialog with pro nuke interests. It is pointless. Would you try and dialog with a Jehovah's Witnesses that came to your doorstep about the attributes of Catholicism??? I hope your answer is NO, LOL!!! There are so many FULLY supported documentaries on all the illness and death from our whole "Nuclear experiment" in this country for the last half century, it is almost an insult to even discuss it in the format of a question. Phil, you have to remember that with people like this, you could take them in person to the places and effected people, face to face with indisputable proof and witness, and they would still say that Nuclear was not to blame. They have vested interests and will never, never, NEVER publicly admit any real fault to Nuclear. As above its the JW exercise in futility.
All that aside though, I have to give credit to the two consecutive sentences that made me laugh for the longest period of time. My laugh meter went right off the scale!!! So, for first place in the funny absurd category, I give the following text and blue ribbon to #21!!

"The wind and sun had their chance and failed to deliver. They will always fail to deliver on demand power because neither humans nor automated control systems can tell the sun to shine or the wind to blow."

This is truly priceless!!!! It deserves NYT front page!! LMAO X 10 to the Googlith power!!
BROVO!!!

.....Bill
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
July 14, 2011
(continuing)...

Third, commercial "renewables" have already killed more American technicians just this year than nuclear has killed technicians in 50 years. But, that's easy, since 0 have been killed by nukes.

We all realize that blind bias rarely is convinced to think honestly, so there's no effort here to convince Paul/Phil, etc. of anything. Rather, the effort is to discuss facts honestly so that those who are willing to think openly can have good information, and have that majority crowd out ignorance. If that doesn't happen, we're all lost.

Here are some references that an honest person can use to understand why Fukushima is a management disaster...

http://tinyurl.com/4pqahtt
http://tinyurl.com/69yyh37
www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/world/asia/16contain.html?_r=1
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/5298-safety-on-thecheap
http://tinyurl.com/45mvlz7
www.itworld.com/business/140626/legacy-1800s-leaves-tokyo-facingblackouts
http://tinyurl.com/3avkq62
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=13226179
www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/04/03/japan.nuclear.tepco/index.html?hpt=T2
www.nytimes.com/2011/04/18/world/asia/18japan.html?_r=1&nl=todaysh eadlines&emc=tha2
http://tinyurl.com/3avkq62
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=13226179
www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/04/03/japan.nuclear.tepco/index.html?hpt=T2
www.nytimes.com/2011/04/18/world/asia/18japan.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha2
www.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/world/asia/27collusion.html
www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-japan-anger-
20110429,0,7071068.story
www.readersupportednews.org/news-section2/338-177/5785-japans-nuclearadviser-resigns-in-tearful-protest
www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/19/japan-tsunami-2011-tepco-tsunamiphotos_n_864168.html#s280815
http://tinyurl.com/3lp4o5k
http://tinyurl.com/3j6ysja
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=13700905
http://tinyurl.com/6dvnxun
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
July 14, 2011
Thanks Phil & Lois. I'll correct my knowledge of the Idaho event & pass it to others who knew no more than I.

For Paul to think on, re facts...

"...disaster at Fukushima is more then a wake-up call to the World that Germany, Italy, Switzerland, and other nations have heard loud and very clear. They are now saying no to nuclear energy. Many Nations are looking more into Rewenable Energy."

First, having a friend who was the 1st GE safety engineer at Fukushima's construction, and having read the many accounts of what caused the disaster, saying it's a "nuclear disaster" is like saying the DUI killing of a relative is a "street disaster" -- true only in syntactic sense, semantically vapid.

There are many links to recent disclosures of TEPCO's mismanagement, Japan's co-opted regulators, etc. I'll put some below. Those are facts. As my GE friend witnessed, their long meetings on design & safety with TEPCO staff & management were respectful & thorough. Then the meetings would adjourn and TEPCO management would have its staff do whatever they wished, as cheaply as possible. Thus backup power exposed to the sea, a sea wall that ignored height suggestions from prior tsunami analyses over hundreds of years, etc.

Fukushima is a wakeup call to energy management, not nuclear reactor design (although those were ancient designs). The reactors all shut down properly upon the quake, long before the water arrived to ruin both emergency power & fuel-storage systems, courtesy of TEPCO management, which had long been involved in various errors & scandals.

Second, Germans/Swiss naively shutting down reactors that are run safely is too a wakeup call to foolish management, due to naive politics & ignorance of reality. Germany admits that 50 megatons/year of CO2 will be unnecessarily added for us all to deal with, because of their ignorant unwise decision. Defending them is a fool's errand. They'll be dependent on French reactors, which are also safely run.
Paul Felix Schott
Paul Felix Schott
July 14, 2011
The Nuclear Power Plant disaster at Fukushima is more then a wake-up call to the World that Germany, Italy, Switzerland,
and other nations have heard loud and very clear. They are now saying no to nuclear energy. Many Nations are looking more into Rewenable Energy.

Soon stock holders and their executives of Oil, Coal and Nuclear Power will be paying, and not the taxpayers.
The best natural resource is out of this world. The Sun. Solar Energy is the best way for all to strive for our environment,
protection through cleaner growth. The wealth of free energy from the SUN will very soon eliminate most of the need for coal, oil and nuclear power plants.

While Washington D.C. has got on board and eased the taxs on Renewable Energy till the end of this year 2011. Some of the cities in the states that these Legislators come from have worked against these tax credits. By adding their own tax to them. By doing so they are showing their true objectives. That they have stock in some power plants and do not want to lose all that money they have been taken out of your pocketbook for too many years, by taxing you on your energy bills. They want to control power and tax every thing they can. Not let the People be free. To get their own power from the top of their own roofs.

These city leaders think that this will take away the incentives to harvest the Free Energy from the sun. The public awareness and ability for all on Earth to use the natural Solar Energy, is contributing to production of solar energy products.

Making the Solar Energy Industry the Fastest growing Industry on Earth.
Helping make some of the poorest on Earth the Richest.

The Lord's Little Helper
Paul Felix Schott
Lois Tyli
Lois Tyli
July 14, 2011
A friend of mine was in utero within site of TMI when the accident happened in 1979. She grew up in the area and her parents still live there. She tells me that all their lives, she and her classmates have been befuddled by all the bogus claims by antinuclear activists that there have been serious health effects in the area. After all, the small children, babies and the fetuses of the time would be among the most susceptible, right?

TMI shouldn't have happened, but it proved that the worst thing that could happen to a nuclear power plant in the US has far fewer consequences than a major accident in many other industries that we depend on. Plus, the abysmal response by the company and the government led to changes in emergency plans and communication with the public. Those are positive results of the event.

And, care to take a guess of what my friend from Pennsylvania chose as her profession? She's a nuclear engineer! :)
Rod Adams
Rod Adams
July 14, 2011
@phil-manke

Judging by your icon photo, I am guessing that you never spent much time in the military. There is no likelihood at all of any significant issue remaining hidden. The US 'military' is a very large institution through which 100,000 - 1,000,000 new entrants cycle each year (depending on what is happening in the world). Since the total force levels do not oscillate very much, that means that an equal number leave the service at the end of their enlistments, their obligated service or retire.

Even if you just limit your implication that health effects related to nuclear energy are somehow covered up, the number is more like 2,500 - 5,000 new nuclear trained navy people every year. We have been using nuclear energy in the Navy since 1953 when the prototype for the USS Nautilus started operating. Just imagine how many people would have had to be convinced to be quiet about health effects in order to produce the result you imply.

DrAlexC is correct in stating the extent of the accidents within military nuclear power - though the SL-1 accident to which he refers occurred in Idaho, not Washington and the 'love triangle' aspect is a legend rather than reality.

http://atomicinsights.com/1996/07/caused-accident-plenty-of-blame-share.html

There is a dated, but informative video about the accident on YouTube that has been a part of nuclear power training in the military for about 4 decades.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIBQMkd96CA

Other than that, no fatal accidents and no cover-ups. Just 5.5 decades worth of lots of ships and submarines powered safely and cleanly with atomic fission. It is demanding, but rewarding work.

Rod Adams
CDR, USN (ret)
former nuclear submarine engineer officer
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
July 13, 2011
Actually, 3 military folks died because of a love triangle, when they were maintaining a small reactor out in the Washington State (I think) boondocks -- the unhappy member pulled the control system and they all died from burns or radiation.

Now, how many people have our lax gun laws killed?

What about friendly fire that wasn't friendly?

How many have our lax Interstate bus regulations killed?

What about escalators? (Google it)

Here's a fun fact: 'To reflect the seriousness of the dangers of escalators, there is an entire organization devoted to promoting awareness ... the Elevator Escalator Safety Foundation'

Just because one doesn't like something they don't understand doesn't mean they're right in dumping on it.
Phil Manke
Phil Manke
July 13, 2011
There are many reactors in military uses also. I'm just guessing here, but I'd wager that much of what happens in the military stays in the military.
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
July 13, 2011
"The Lord's Little Helper" needs to go to confession -- there have been 0 deaths due to civilian nuclear power in the US since the 1st commercial reactor was started in 1957 in Shippingport, PA.

My folks lived downwind from 3-Mile Island. No one was ever diagnosed with any illness from that event. Why? Because emissions from it were less than what each of us gets from the Potassium in our bones, or from eating a banana a day. Yes, bananas concentrate 40Potassium and it stays in our bones while it decays within us for decades. Just as other naturally-occurring radio-isotopes do. And, if you smoke, well now you're really exposing yourself more than Fukushima neighbors -- Polonium is a natural decay product of natural radio-isotopes in fertilizers farmers use on tobacco -- so much so that Polonium concentrates on the undersides of tobacco leaves, which get chopped & rolled into smokes. Draw hard on that next cig baby!

CT scans also expose us to far more than any 3-Mile Island event could have, even if we lived next door to it. And GE is in trouble for not properly regulating such exposures.

So why aren't we all riddled with cancer, or dead? Hmmmmm.

Our cells are confronted with far larger threats than radiation every second of every day -- heard that we should eat foods rich in anti-oxidants? Well, Oxygen is an anathema to proteins & RNA/DNA. Life didn't begin in an Oxygen-rich atmosphere.

So, guess what, Ma Nature evolved DNA-repair systems within all cells. In fact, as you've read this, your 10 trillion or so cells have performed many trillions of DNA-repair actions. Nice that DNA coding is redundant, much like computer memory/disc codings. So, until radiation levels reach beyond the 1-repair/second of cells, radiation has no bad effect. In fact, it appears to exercise the repair mechanisms, much as exercise improves our muscles. Reality!

Again, always better to share accurate info, rather than blind bias.
Paul Felix Schott
Paul Felix Schott
July 13, 2011
The Commercial Nuclear Power plant Three Mile Island accident 1979 it's cleanup cost was
more then $1 billion.
Causing The Evacuation of more then 150,000 young children and mothers to be. From many
miles around the area. No one has put a cost to loss of school time and to the lives of
those that lived in the area around Three Mile Island that stayed away for more then
two weeks from their own homes. Many surveys have clearly shown that less than 50% of
The American People were satisfied with the way the Three Mile Island accident was handled
by the Government.
To add inslut to it all, The Pennsylvania House of Representatives. Told the people they
were doing something about it and had conducted their own investigation if you could
call it that. Which some of the Representatives said focused on the need to improve
Evacuation Procedures.
As if one can run from it in time.

There are so many known events that are involving nuclear devices and
facilities under The United States jurisdiction, many of them involving fatalities.
More then Twenty of them from Nuclear Power plants.

June 2011
An Associated Press investigation did revealed that three quarters of all Nuclear Power
Plants in the United States were found to be leaking radioactive tritium. More then half
the Nuclear power plants studied had concentrations exceeding the federal drinking
water standard some by more then 100 times. The public has been told many of times by
leaders none had reached public drinking supplies. Even though leaks at three plants had
contaminated the drinking wells of many nearby homes in the area,
and only the Deaf and blind did not know of this around there.
Open your eyes and ears to the truth.
Read The Bible you will get to know the truth, not sh from the Wicked.

The Lord's Little Helper
Paul Felix Schott
david walters
david walters
July 13, 2011
Phil, you need to read more. Can you point to spent nuclear fuel being "mismanaged" in the US? Commercial nuclear plants store their SNF on site. There has never been even an incident regarding it. Yet we dump millions of tons of coal waste *everywhere*, unregulated except for river pollution and coal kills 30,000 people a year that we know of according the NIH. What again are your priorities here? They are DEAD because of coal, Phil. I'm only 'yelling' with all caps because I think most renewable energy folks simply don't "get it".

There would be half-million or more alive today if we had phased out coal with nuclear 40 years ago. But no...you are 'afraid'.

You are not keeping up on the reading. If we reprocess, as the French do, we can keep deriving energy from the SNF for decades longer. Gen IV reactors like the Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor don't even use uranium, they use thorium, 4 times as abundant. The world, Phil, is passing you by on nuclear technology. Just read more about it.

Right now solar is "boutique" because it still sucks up subsidies for every KWhr produced. You are, unfortunately, pushing more fossil fuel as your last statement clearly indicates. Nuclear is *expanding* in China, Vietnam, Korea, the USA, France, England and other countries. The future looks to be quite "mixed" regardless of the solar-utopians wishful thinking.
Phil Manke
Phil Manke
July 13, 2011
The pot calls the kettle black with opinion as fact. Lowest volume with greatest toxicity? How is that a valid comparison? It absolutely must be seriously "managed", (mismanaged). It isn't managed at all, just stored.
Last time I checked, the sun still shines, however smoggy, on these cities. Energy storage is being developed, and needs more development. I cannot "run" these cities' power needs, but many of the people there could, if given the $ supports now given to industries. Many people, IMO, would install solar heating and PV if they could receive an ongoing income from it. It will not be for everyone by far, but many will overproduce.
Anyway, your nuke energy solution can only be a temporary solution at best, since it has a finite fuel supply, and finite toxic waste storage problem. Until there are energy storage solutions worked out, the conventional energy provisions will be relied on to fill the gaps.
david walters
david walters
July 13, 2011
Phil, I'm afraid all you are doing is presenting your own opinion as 'fact'. You really can't back up anything you say. Especially on the health effects, or lack there of as the case may be, of nuclear energy. We *know* what fossil fuel does in terms of both the immediate health effects of coal and natural gas and the long term effects on climate change. Nuclear outputs the *lowest* volume of toxic waste than *any* industry. It might be dangerous, but it's the only one that is at all seriously managed. Chinese solar cell production? Dumped in the countryside.

"Distributed generation" is totally supported by all the subsidies from private Fortune 500 companies from GE to Westinghouse. These companies support any gov't subsidized hand outs especially with feedin tariffs s generously handed out.

But are you going to run...New York City or San Francisco on "Distributive Generation"? Are you? How? How much will society invest to do this? The wind farms are not "distributive generation". They are diffuse...but highly centralized in their ownership and control.
Phil Manke
Phil Manke
July 13, 2011
It has not proven to be a low cost fuel at all. It is rather a cost deferred fuel, just as burn=tec fuels have been. This is, at least in part, because of a health care system that profits from the various sicknesses incurred by the populace working in league with environment sacrificing companies. The nuke industry itself is motivated by the profits of a few, perhaps like your "board", over the general well being of the world's people. This is an offering made continually at the "altar" of capitalism.
Distributed generation is the bane of investors who seek profits by leveraging the needs of others against their overall well being through deceptions called advertising. The accumulation of a world of "facts" and "proof" cannot replace the idea that toxic waste accumulation, however unattended to, can and will destroy any civilization through the devaluing of trust necessary to obtain viable agreements needed in the functioning of a peaceful world.
In other words, I, and apparently many others, simply do not believe you or trust your motivations.
Rod Adams
Rod Adams
July 13, 2011
@phil_manke

The cost data that I quoted from NEI shows that nuclear power plants are operating reliably and have a low ongoing cost compared to their competitors. You implied that NEI was a biased source. The Nuclear Energy Institute has some biases - it is, after all, the trade organization for the companies that own and supply today's fleet of nuclear power plants - but those biases do not result in a desire to under report or under estimate the cost of operation.

A significant portion of the members of NEI are regulated monopoly utilities that are prevented by law from charging market prices for their output. Instead, the prices they charge are based on a fixed percentage of allowed profit above the cost of producing power. What would motivate a profit-seeking company under that form of regulation to under estimate costs?

You also imply that there are no investors willing to fund nuclear power projects. That is incorrect.

I am part of a group of several hundred people funded by investor capital that is developing a refined light water reactor. We have a letter of intent for six units and a large group of very interested potential customers that are logically keeping close track of our progress and waiting to see the proof that we can work our way through the thicket of government regulation.

It's not easy. The guide to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission reviewers is 4600 pages long. The typical design control document runs to about 16,000 - 20,000 pages of technical text. The process to obtain a license to operate takes about 5-10 years from start to finish and can cost in excess of $100 million in fees to the government.

However, our board has determined that the market for emission free, on-demand power that uses an energy dense, low cost fuel (about 60 cents per million BTU for commercial nuclear fuel compared to $4.50 for natural gas) is large enough to be worth the risk of the investment.

http://www.babcock.com/products/modular_nuclear/
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
July 13, 2011
Indeed it's interesting that the German political (not scientific) decision on nukes is reported to mean 50 megatons of new CO2 emissions per year, as well as some dependence on French nukes.

If only other countries managed their politics as well as we do.
;]

And, the Chinese move ahead (with our R&D and treasury bills)...

www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/01/china_thorium_bet/
http://energyfromthorium.com/2011/01/30/china-initiates-tmsr/#comments
www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8393984/Safe-nuclear-does-exist-and-China-is-leading-the-way-with-thorium.html
www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=are-new-types-of-reactors-needed-for-nuclear-renaissance
www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=china-goes-nuclear-to-avoid-coal-burning
http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/04/china-academy-of-science-annual-budget.html
david walters
david walters
July 12, 2011
Jim, there is no 'consensus'. Sure in parts of Europe there is strong majority support for phasing out nuclear. Give it a few years and people will see the increase of their carbon footprint...like what is happening in Germany with their 'phaseout of nuclear' equaling 23 new coal plants and twice that many natural gas plants.

If the 'concensus' was for nuclear...would you agree to move toward it?

The world is still going nuclear Jim, not as fast as before, but more and more countries see this as a carbon-free source of energy. Its quite the mixed bag out there.
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
July 12, 2011
"respect people who can allow a change of mind when the evidence or even just the probability stacks up" -- laudable. Practiced?

Again, the straw man of present LWR nuclear was supposed to have been gone a decade ago. If one wants to be fair and circumspect about nuclear power, then they must at least read what we were supposed to have been doing about that 49 years ago.

If biased and unthinking, then don't read. But, don't then expect an opinion to carry weight with others.

The document is in comment 30, just in case.

And again, for those who respect fact and mind changing -- how many folks have died from US nuke plants? How many from French, German, Canadian...? How many from escalators? From hospitals? From busses? From coal plants? From illegal guns? From Love Canal? From Union Carbide in Bhopal? From GE in Poughkeepsie? From windmills just this year?

Only the nukes above have 0 victims.

What was that about "people who can allow a change of mind"?
Phil Manke
Phil Manke
July 12, 2011
It seemed to me that the reporting was very carefully worded to include only data that would make nukes look better than ALL the data might.. But hey, if you know of investors who wanna build them, go right ahead, but it is unfair to use government capital when the consesus is "No Nukes".
The German Chancelor has recently ruled that nuke plants will be done with by 2022 with no loopholes for continuance. Maybe they like the only planet we have available better than options and margins to feed their kids. I can respect people who can allow a change of mind when the evidence or even just the probability stacks up. The story that we so desparately need nuclear electricity to be "competitive" is just that; a story. It only has the meaning that we give it.
Lois Tyli
Lois Tyli
July 12, 2011
Phil,

Sure NEI is nuclear's trade organization, but I checked the link provided and the data comes from Ventyx, a subsidiary of ABB. ABB sells services, software and equipment to just about everyone in the energy business--they have no special dispensation toward nuclear.

Do you also automatically challenge favorable data for wind production from the American Wind Energy Association or is it just NEI you question without actually checking the reference?
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
July 12, 2011
Thanks Paul. As an NJ native, I witnessed rampant environmental destruction decades ago, and encouraging protections more recently, such as the Highlands Bill.

As a kid, going to NYC museums, we'd drive through NJ marshes (remember the Godfather?) holding our breath as the garbage piles were burning. NYC dumped its garbage in NJ and we burned it, sending the smoke back to them.
;]
But, the damage to NJ is not nuclear. And, if our govt. & industry had indeed followed the 1962 recommendations to JFK, we'd not have any fuel rods, depleted-U waste, etc. lying around anywhere...
http://energyfromthorium.com/pdf/CivilianNuclearPower.pdf

We'd also have needed no windmills, desert solar, etc. And, the world would not have a fresh water problem.

Of course, we'd still have chemical-waste problems, which are more lasting, in NJ and anywhere else.

We only make progress when we study reality honestly.
Paul Felix Schott
Paul Felix Schott
July 12, 2011
Department of Justice
Office of Public Affairs
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Tuesday, July 12, 2011
Justice Department and EPA Officials Focus on Environmental Justice in Newark, New Jersey
NEWARK, N.J. – Senior environmental enforcement officials from the U.S. Justice Department and Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) toured sites in Newark, N.J., today and met with federal partners and with environmental and community organizations to discuss mutual efforts to address environmental challenges and enforce environmental laws, and in particular efforts to achieve environmental justice.


Officials included Ignacia S. Moreno, Assistant Attorney General of the Environment and Natural Resources Division; Paul J. Fishman, U.S. Attorney for the District of New Jersey; and Cynthia Giles, Assistant Administrator for the EPA Office of Enforcement Compliance Assurance. They were joined by Judith A. Enck, EPA Region 2 Administrator; and Lisa F. Garcia, EPA Senior Advisor for Environmental Justice.



The goal of environmental justice, a major priority of the Department of Justice and the EPA, is to provide all Americans – regardless of their race, ethnicity or income status – full protection under the nation's environmental laws and protection from pollution, hazardous waste and toxic substances.

"The people of New Jersey understand the critical importance of environmental protection, and the real world consequences of industrial pollution," said Assistant Attorney General Moreno. "By enforcing the nation's environmental laws in a fair and even-handed way, we are taking steps to ensure that we achieve environmental justice. We are listening to communities and giving voice to those that have too frequently suffered an unfair burden from pollution in America."

"New Jersey has seen an unjust share of environmental damage, and we have the opportunity and obligation to do something about it," said U.S. Attorney Fishman.
Paul Felix Schott
Paul Felix Schott
July 12, 2011
lftr i wish you were right put you are not. There are a little more them 100 sites Total in all Military and Civilian if you can call them that,in all in the United States All fall short of being safe by the US Energy Department and The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. If you went to as many meeting as i have you would also know the report that was given to all even the news years ago. That is that most all of the 100 + sites will never be completely safe. i have helped with many things in my life even Chair to one of the largest Coalition in the USA Helping advances to our nation's economic, environmental, and Energy Security. With out ever taking even one penny for doing so. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and the US Energy Department i am no stranger to. The US Military will always be my second home.

The Lord's Little helper
Paul Felix Schott
david walters
david walters
July 12, 2011
You are talking about US Dept. of Energy/Defense MILITARY WMD sites, not civilian sites.
Paul Felix Schott
Paul Felix Schott
July 12, 2011
For all of you that can not open your eyes as big as your mouth. The United States of America DOE is expecting to spend more then $175 billion over the next 50 years cleaning up Nuclear Spent Fuel Radioactive Soup from more then 50 sites across the United States of America. That has found its way into the Ground water from 55gal fuel drums deteriorating in aging Basins. The Disturbing number of Birth Defects in these areas no one can but a Dollar amount on. Scientists around the Earth are telling their governments Nuclear is far more costly then Solar Energy.
The Young Ladies in Japan and the young Ladies serving in our Military there. Know first hand the cost from the week and slow in mind. The price these young pay is way too high.
My Youngest is Proudly Serving in Japan in the United States Military.
United We Stand In GOD We Trust
The Lord's Little Helper
Paul Felix Schott
Phil Manke
Phil Manke
July 12, 2011
Responce to comment 20; Your data comes from the NEI, and I woud hardly expect them to report anything less than great for nuke electric. The short answer is that they do NOT report government subsidies accurately, just electric production after the plants are built and operating, hardly an accurate cost.
Attack all you want and cherry pick your "evidence" as needed, but anyone with an adequate "seperator" knows nukes are neither cost effective or safe on this rock. Processing costs of the radioactive and extremely toxic fuel are never entered into nuke costing either. You may have made poor investment decisions in the past, but continuing to do so for the same reasons is the definition of stupid.
david walters
david walters
July 12, 2011
doggydogworld, yes it is unlikely any such low cost nuclear energy is available in the immediate future. But *no* form of energy is built today without certain guarantees, most notably wind and solar, which could *not* be built without massive subsidies for *every* KWhr produced and/or *mandated* by legislation that a certain % of generation in a system, regional or state, be from these sources. How is that "good economics"?
DoggyDog World
DoggyDog World
July 12, 2011
"Merchants have no incentive to build more plants because more production lowers the market price."

This is true of every market in every industry we have. Yet merchants build new stuff all the time. We aren't building nukes because the economics don't work. I wish they did, because I'm a fan of nuclear. But wishing doesn't change the facts.
DoggyDog World
DoggyDog World
July 12, 2011
Nuclear costs 2.14 cents/kWh because our plants were built when a new car cost $2000. Energy sources with low fuel/op costs, such as nuclear, hydro, solar and wind, offer terrific inflation protection. Economically speaking we should continue to operate our existing nuclear plants as long as safely possible. Unfortunately new plants cannot be built using 1972 pricing. Serious attempts to build new nuclear plants in the US come with with extremely high price tags - from $5 up to $8/W. 2 cents/kWh is a fantasy for such plants. Even 10 cents/kWh is not possible at these prices. That's what stopped nuclear in its tracks here, even before Fukushima.

New plants are a great idea if we're headed for another bout of high 1970/80s-style inflation. No way to know that, though.
Rod Adams
Rod Adams
July 12, 2011
@aligatorhart:

Humans have known that the wind and sun are energy sources for as long as there have been humans on the planet. For hundreds of thousands of years, humans were dissatisfied with the lives they could live by being dependent on those sources. They learned to burn wood and made things a little better, but still had to deal with a lot of nasty side effects like choking and the risk of being burned. They also found that any decent concentration of humans could wipe out the local wood supply. The solution was migration - trees could be replanted but they grew at their own pace while winters came with great regularity and meals needed to be prepared every day.

In 1942, when my father was already an adult serving in the Navy, Enrico Fermi and a small band of scientists and laborers stacked up some graphite bricks and lumps of natural uranium to produce the first ever self sustaining fission chain reaction.

By 1955, just 13 years later, fission was pushing a submarine around the ocean. By 1990, fission based power plants in the US were producing more electricity every year than the entire US grid produced in 1960. By 2000, the production from US nuclear plants was the energy equivalent of 4 million barrels of oil per day. Sold as electricity, that power is worth between $40 and $80 BILLION per year. World wide, nuclear energy production is equivalent to 12 million barrels of oil per day. That is roughly the energy output of Saudi Arabia PLUS Kuwait.

Nuclear energy opponents play into the hands of the global fossil fuel industry by restricting energy supplies, keeping prices higher and keeping the air dirtier. The wind and sun had their chance and failed to deliver. They will always fail to deliver on demand power because neither humans nor automated control systems can tell the sun to shine or the wind to blow.
Rod Adams
Rod Adams
July 12, 2011
@phil_manke

I hope that you have some means of employment other than financial analysis. Otherwise, I am fairly certain that all of the rest of us are having to support you.

The "all-in" cost of electricity generation from the average nuclear power plant in the United States in 2010 was 2.14 cents per kilowatt hour. That compares favorably with coal at 3.06 cents and natural gas at 4.86 cents. I feel sorry for those folks in Hawaii, Alaska, Puerto Rico and Guam who are nearly completely dependent on burning petroleum - the average cost of that came in at a wopping 15.18 cents per kilowatt hour.

http://www.nei.org/resourcesandstats/documentlibrary/reliableandaffordableenergy/graphicsandcharts/uselectricityproductioncosts/

If a 1200 MWe nuclear power plant operates at an industry average capacity factor of 90%, it will produce 9.4 billion kilowatt hours per year. If that plant is a merchant generator in a market where the wholesale price of power is 7 cents per kilowatt hour, it will produce an annual profit of $460 million over cost. If that plant is in a market where the wholesale price is 10 cents per kilowatt hour, the annual profit increases to $740 million - nearly doubling with no additional effort.

If the nuclear plant is operating in a regulated market, however, the owner does not sell at the market price, but at a price of 12% or so over cost. All of the low cost benefits accrue to the customers in the form of lower electricity prices.

Merchants have no incentive to build more plants because more production lowers the market price. Regulated utilities have to work hard against organized opposition and then have regulators that often change the cost recovery rules in the middle of the game. The losers are the people who breathe the air, the people whose local mountains were blown up for coal, and the people who pay higher gas and power bills because others made it too hard to build nuclear plants on a predictable cost and schedule.
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
July 11, 2011
If "biomass/biofuels accounted for 48.06 percent", then we're going nowhere good -- emissions and resource consumption are both worse for them than just burning oil. Amazingly, plants didn't evolve to give us energy!

The recent tripling of international corn prices has raised malnutrition worldwide, while subsidizing an impossible industry (as the Senate has recognized finally). The net use of solar input by biofuels is <1%, when measured as the thermal energy of their stored carbohydrates. Then, feeding combustion engines with them loses another 60+%, netting overall biofuel efficiency at under 0.4%. Of course the subsidized farmers & distillers don't care.

The 'renewable' marketing hoaxes continue to pile up, only gradually being exposed for the greed behind them.
Lois Tyli
Lois Tyli
July 11, 2011
Anonymous, when you say "Nuclear power is the most subsidized power ever in the history of man" can you provide some objective references that compare nuclear to other sources? I see you mention enrichment facilities but utilities do indeed pay for the services they have bought from the government. In fact, they have also had to contribute much to the decommissioning of such facilities even though they didn't originally build them. Furthermore, are you comparing "subsidies" in terms of dollars per kW-hr delivered to the grid or by some other unit?

You also say, that "The long term storage of nuclear waste is reason enough not to continue with nuclear power when other, renewable alternatives are available...In that sense, it's nuclear power one way or the other, but without the long term radioisotope waste if we gather energy from the sun." Are you aware that the production and use of soalr panels generates toxic waste that is much longer term than any nuclear waste because it never decays? Just want to make sure we're comparing apples to apples and applying the same criteria to each energy technology when we evaluate them.
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
July 11, 2011
Very good, GoNuke. Facts are always a problem for those with other agendas.

By the way, if anyone really wants to honestly evaluate 'renewables', here's one place to start: www.withouthotair.com.

PS, GE's reactor price list in 1963 or so listed the delivered cost of a conventional reactor as $159/kW. Those tricky industry boosters!
;]
Paul Wilson
Paul Wilson
July 11, 2011
Some facts about this data:
1. conversions to primary energy are misleading because of inconsistent conversion factors
2. in the electricity sector, all renewables (including hydro) are just over 50% of the total generation of nuclear
3. of the renewables across all sectors: 30% was hydro, 25% were liquid bio-fuels, and 25% was solid biomass used primarily in the industrial sector

Conclusions: non-hydro renewable electricity generation was 1/6th of nuclear generation in the same time period and hydro was 40% of nuclear.

More importantly, aligatorhardt said:

I just read about the new solar projects with loan guarantees from DOE, where $4.5 billion buys 1300MW of solar. This is less than the cost of nuclear power even before you consider the lack of fuel costs and extremely low maintenance costs of solar power.


But this is NOT the correct comparison. It is true that $3500/kW is lower than most current estimates for nuclear power plants. However, nuclear power plants have a 90% capacity factor (proven) and solar plants are bound to be more like 30-50% (optimistically). The solar plant will have 1/3 to 1/2 as many opportunities to earn that money back. Thus, a better comparison is to consider this solar plant to be between $7000-$10500/kW : more than a new nuclear plant.
david walters
david walters
July 11, 2011
You know...when I see "The solar industry has grown by more than 50%!"...it makes me laugh. When you start from, say, .01 of all energy produced to .015 (a 50% increase) it's quite silly to use either "50%" or the exclamation mark.
david walters
david walters
July 11, 2011
There is a little bit of 'weezel wording' here. "Renewables" as a statistic is quite 'dead'. That is, it doesn't really reflect what the gov't is or should do, where social investment should go.

The above cited statistics really don't reflect the growth of 'wind and solar' per say, since it's built on the basis of hundred year old hydro power. Since investments are not generally directed toward hydro as it's already built out, the very small amount of wind and solar...the REAL issue here, doesn't look as good relative to nuclear.

It is quite unclear in the blog whether one is talking about "capacity" or "capacity FACTOR"...that is the real power generated or just as in the case of 'capacity' the theoretical name-plate MWs. This is a huge difference for wind and solar on the one hand, and nuclear on the other. Nuclear isn't going away, you have to get used to this.

What is really growing is very dirty and dangerous natural gas, which is married at the hip to solar and wind. Something to think about.
Jim Scherrer
Jim Scherrer
July 11, 2011
Nuclear power is also now considered a renewable resource because the fuel rods are now able to be recycled, over and over again. Let's add nuclear power to our list of Renewable Energy sources to solar, wind, geothermal, biomass and more.
Phil Manke
Phil Manke
July 10, 2011
I hear tell that even more valuable than He3, yah, critical, and many of the other fusion products, some toxins yet un-named, are the vessels necessary to contain them.
So reactors produce millions of $ in revenue for billions in cost of opperation. Hmmmm.. thats a good deal....? If reactors are a money maker the corporate money would be making them. Truth is, without government guarantees and backing, NONE of them would be cost effective. Hard to tell if the NRC or NASA is a better money pit....... Good thing the MICE has appeared to settle that.
(Military Industrial Congressional Establishment).
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
July 10, 2011
For Phil -- actually, what's inside the used fuel of even a conventional nuke is worth a lot more than the salvage value of a windmill. And, with the liquid salt reactor, all these isotopes are easily removed,particularly gasses like Tritium, 99Mo... Just the medical value of fission products is vast. For Homeland Security, physicists, the 3Helium produced in a reactor is critical -- check its price! So an operating salt reactor provides $ millions of income each year -- small compared to the electricty income, but crucial to science, security & medicine.

For Anonymous -- Lumping all nuclear together is incorrect, as you must know, if you did work with GE and the failed Sodium cooled fast-neutron reactor. Ir's a very different, more dangerous beast than any of the thermal reactors, as you must also know.

So the growing reality of DG PV and the safety of unpressurized salt reactors is what we can indeed proceed with, without wasting land & sea on subsidized xyz 'farms'.
Chris Nelder
Chris Nelder
July 8, 2011
Actually, after crunching the EIA data and charting it, I concluded that no, renewables really didn't surpass nuclear. We just had a wet winter. See http://www.getreallist.com/have-renewables-surpassed-nuclear-in-the-us.html
Paul Felix Schott
Paul Felix Schott
July 7, 2011
The Solar Energy Industry in the year 2010 has leaped ahead farther and faster then any other Industry on Earth. The Solar Industry in the United States of America alone, has grown by more then 50%. The benefits of Solar Energy is clear clean air view in major cities as improving air quality.(Clean Cities)By all that use there brain for good. View it as protecting the Environment and Freedom From OIL and the Power Grid. Renewable Energy like Geothermal, Wind and yes Solar is starting to replace the old, world wide. If you can not see this then open your eyes.

The Lord's Little Helper
Paul Felix Schott
ANONYMOUS
July 7, 2011
Nuclear power is the most subsidized power ever in the history of man. The need for uranium enrichment, provided by government paid-for plants and operated by Big Business, would make nukes unaffordable if Big Business built and operated these plants on their own nickle. Nuclear power exists because it is the best (most quiet and undetectable) way to power the US Navy, and it is indeed very effective in that venue.

Having worked on the LMFBR (breeder reactor) when I was employed as a nuclear engineer at GE, it is a shame that it wasn't built. But France went that direction with the Phoenix and Super Phoenix breeder reactors and I don't think that either one is in operation today.

The long term storage of nuclear waste is reason enough not to continue with nuclear power when other, renewable alternatives are available. Let's pull our heads out of the 1950s and move ahead with renewable energy. Solar has a long way to go to catch up, but if we start today, we'll get there sooner than if we delay.

Besides, that big bright thermonuclear fusion reactor in the sky is a terrible thing to waste. In that sense, it's nuclear power one way or the other, but without the long term radioisotope waste if we gather energy from the sun.
Phil Manke
Phil Manke
July 7, 2011
Dralex #5; I'd trade the salvage value of a wind generator for a nuke plant anyday! And as this article points out, distributed solar is 'just begining' to make a dent in energy provision.

Time to let go of the investment in nuke tec. Save it for future space missions, after we have learned to live peacefully as a life form.
Dr. A. Cannara
Dr. A. Cannara
July 6, 2011
As Jim & Doggy... indicate, renewables are misrepersented here, likely for profit or out of ignorance.

Note how the author mentions 'domestic oil production'. We consume 12 million barrels per day, 2 from Canada, 1 from Saudis, etc. Measuring progress of 'renewables' against domestic is fibbing.

Then comes nukes, -- anyone claiming to know anything about nuclear power had better have read the report JFK requested and got in 1962. It clearly stated we should be done with the current water-based nuclear rector designs by 2000, instead using safe power from breeders that need no Uranium, etc. This didn't happen because of the Cold War politics and industrial resistance -- GE, Westinghouse, etc. had no incentive to move to safer, cheaper reactor designs.

The Chinese are, however, proceeding to complete our 1960s work left undone, but now public. They already know that wind varies, as their westerm wind 'farms' already experience in both losses and decreased output. They also know that hydro won't do the job. And, they know safe nuclear power also means clean water supplies. So, we'll either wake up as they proceed, or cede the worldwide energy & fresh water markets to them.

The subsidy issue is funny, because it too is a fib -- nukes pay up front per kWHr for de-commissioning. Do wind farms pay into funds for removal of their 700 tons of fossil-fuel-processed material per MW? In Calif., they haven't, which is why Kern County is such a delightful mess to site see through. Do they make up for their permanent 10% power loss in transmiussion?

So, local solar PV & water heating (DG) has enough structural area available to supply all our peak daily needs. With local storage, we have a robust grid, little transmission loss, and an environmentally neutral footprint. We even have 2 more efficiency doublings coming in PV, which already outsrips wind's measly power density. Safe nuclear provides the base + water. Wind/wave/massed solar -- ciao.
DoggyDog World
DoggyDog World
July 6, 2011
Nuclear did not have "a 60 year head start on renewable". Renewable output exceeded nuclear throughout our entire history until 1990. Nuclear then pulled briefly ahead of renewables as nuke uptime improved and hydro and biomass suffered declines. Nuclear maxed out around 8 quads a decade ago, however, and will not go higher unless we build new plants.

The real story here is hydro's fluke-ish Q1 and biomass's continued resurgence. Wind's impact is smaller, but noticeable. Solar is still just a rounding error.
Allen Gerhardt
Allen Gerhardt
July 6, 2011
Nuclear power has had a 60 year head start on renewable energy other than hydro. After all that time nuclear cannot prove itself worthy, even with constant subsidies and unrealistic safety expectations. It is clear that we can replace nuclear power and never look back. I just read about the new solar projects with loan guarantees from DOE, where $4.5 billion buys 1300MW of solar. This is less than the cost of nuclear power even before you consider the lack of fuel costs and extremely low maintenance costs of solar power. Add the real safety of disaster proof solar power, and there is no reason to want to build nuclear power.
DANIEL MARTIN-RIOS
DANIEL MARTIN-RIOS
July 6, 2011
Solar ,Wind ,Hydro and Geothermal energy are the solution to a growing American goverment trade deficit and debt!
Jim Jenal
Jim Jenal
July 5, 2011
I am as big a proponent of renewable energy as anyone out there, but I find this post somewhat misleading. It is true that the raw numbers between renewables and nuclear are accurately stated, but what is not reported is that the contribution from solar is a miniscule 0.026 of those 2.245 Quadrillion BTUs - just over 1% of total renewable energy production. Put another way, nuclear contributed 81 times as much energy in the first quarter as did solar.
From the same EIA source we see that nuclear provided 20.5% of all electricity generated in the US in March of this year, compared to just 5.2% from the combination of solar, wind, geothermal, biomass and "miscellaneous" sources. In raw numbers, solar (both PV and thermal) produced 110,000 MWhs compared to 65,662,000 MWhs for nuclear. Which means that nuclear's contribution to electricity generation in the US in March was 596 times that of solar. Ouch.
I look forward to the day when solar energy production exceeds nuclear, but we are a very long way from reaching that goal.

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Kenneth Bossong

Kenneth Bossong

Ken Bossong is the Executive Director of the SUN DAY Campaign. The SUN DAY Campaign is a non-profit research and educational organization founded in 1993 to promote sustainable energy technologies as cost-effective alternatives to nuclear...
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