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The Good News: Climate Change Doesn't Matter Anymore

By Tam Hunt, Contributor
May 31, 2011   |   27 Comments

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27 Reader Comments
Comment
1 of 27
STB
May 31, 2011
This article contradicts itself, although the author doesn't seem to be aware of it.

The claim (second paragraph) that "mitigating climate change" won't cause terrible damage to the economies of the developed world is preposterous. Why on Earth do you think that nobody is stepping up to the plate? Why won't China and India even pretend that AGW is a problem? Why do you think that countries who do buy into AGW won't keep the promises they made at Kyoto, and won't even make those empty promises any more (Copenhagen, Mexico City)?

The article then goes on to promote the idea of "Price-induced conservation", which is a euphemism for running our economy onto the rocks by dropping plentiful, efficient sources of energy (petroleum, natural gas, coal, nuclear) for some vague fantasy about supplying our base load with windmills.

And Tam, here's why people believing in AGW DOES matter to guys like you; because if you don't believe in the Climate Rapture then there's no reason to pour billions of borrowed dollars into Community Renewable Solutions LLC, or any of the other opportunistic climate-hustlers that have sprung up recently. Without AGW, it will always make sense to use plentiful, high-density sources of energy, and you and Al Gore will have to get real jobs.
Comment
2 of 27
May 31, 2011
@STB

Oil may be plentiful, but demand for oil is even more plentiful. Hence the high oil price. PV and wind are both cheaper than oil fired electricity now, even without tax incentives.

Consider the fact that the rest of the world wants to drive SUVs too. The Earth's hydrocarbon deposits are miniscule compared to the power of the Sun.
Comment
3 of 27
May 31, 2011
Yes, the simple fact that the current US Energy matrix is 55 % inefficient is enough reason alone to seek energy efficiency and localized renewable energy solutions.

As long as we have a centralize energy distribution model in place we can not hope to achieve true sustainability. Lets move towards sustainability for its own reason... that its the best option!
Comment
4 of 27
May 31, 2011
Typo: 'the U.S. has been a great [example?] of how improved energy intensity'.

I like the optimistic tone of this article but I really wonder about that elephant in the room (China): http://oi55.tinypic.com/s6rk1j.jpg

I just don't see China turning to windmills, do you? And if not, uh, why bother here? I mean if we made the windmills and solar cells here it could be a boon but to pay China to make them for us? Hmm.... That's lots of money not cycling back into our economy. And do we really believe as I point out in my 'Authority' poster below:

Pristine mountains look better
if industrialized with giant towers
(roads and power lines included)
that make sunrise and sunset cast
monstrous flickering shadows.

That you don't explain your opposition to nuclear is telling, given that until recently green energy was promoted as a way to avoid the End of the World. I like how Bloomberg, our mayor, describes his serious demeanor this week, at a carbon tax conference, which I must paraphrase for I can't find the article: 'we'll have drinks and a few laughs.'

One thing I you discount is the shear amount of built up anger green speculators have created in their opposition by the comparison of AGW skeptics to Holocaust deniers, something that continues to this day. Green energy has just lost exactly one half of the political equation. Oops! You failed to castigate Michael Mann and the rest of the corrupt hockey stick team when you had the chance. Now you still have them as your poster boys! Oops!

Here I present The Quick Glance Guide to Global Warming:
Denial: http://i53.twitgoo.com/vy17cn.jpg
Oceans: http://oi53.tinypic.com/35b9g08.jpg
Thermometers: http://oi52.tinypic.com/2agnous.jpg
Ice: http://oi52.tinypic.com/2upvlvm.jpg
Earth: http://oi56.tinypic.com/2reh021.jpg
Authority: http://oi53.tinypic.com/345bol5.jpg
Prophecy: http://oi52.tinypic.com/30bfktk.jpg
Psychopathy: http://oi52.tinypic.com/2wpmn83.jpg
Thinker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n92YenWfz0Y
Comment
5 of 27
May 31, 2011
The unreliability of both renewables is such that each must be backed up 100% with new conventional plant. The costs are thus always >2X up front. Then comes the maintenance, very high with wind and solar plant, and much higher for conventional ramped up and down than operated properly.

Load-balancing across geographic areas for fast fluctuations requires a massive transmission capacity increase. Etc.

Fool's gold, all of it.

What will actually remove the problems with renewables is their total irrelevance beginning about 5 yrs from now. See Lpp.com .

43crb
Comment
6 of 27
May 31, 2011
STB, there is no contradiction and you've missed my point. I did not promote 'price-induced conservation' - I noted it as a natural phenomenon, a response to higher prices, which I demonstrated with the meta-analysis of consumer response to higher gasoline prices.

I don't need to have any opinion on the merits or lack thereof of energy price increases to argue that conservation itself is a good thing. Conservation is good whether it's induced by higher prices or not.

And, more importantly, the price increases I mentioned have nothing to do with climate change mitigation. They relate to the ongoing structural imbalance that exists with respect to global oil supplies. See my previous articles on peak oil for more on this. It's not a question of wanting or not wanting higher prices - it's a question of how will we respond to higher prices that are inevitably coming?

As for your allegations about climate hustlers, this argument has already been won by the solar and wind power developers responsible for the many tens of gigawatts of new projects around the globe in the last decade. As I demonstrate, these trends are exponential and I think pretty unstoppable given the price improvements in these technologies over the last few years and given the size of the industries that have sprung up around the world.

Our transformation to a renewable energy economy has reached scale and it's not really a question anymore of you or I wanting (or not) more renewables - it's happening now in a big way and will get much bigger in the coming two decades.
Comment
7 of 27
June 1, 2011
BrianH, as I mention in my article, balancing variable renewables like wind and solar is not that difficult. Numerous studies have found that balancing penetration well above 20% costs no more than 10% on top of the price of power, and often less.

Here's the Lawrence Berkeley National Lab report summarizing these findings (see slide 55):

http://eetd.lbl.gov/ea/ems/reports/lbnl-3716e-ppt.pdf

It is simply NOT the case that renewables need anywhere near 100% backup, as you state. This is a common myth that has no basis in fact. Grids nowadays have a lot of redundancy built in (CA requires 15-17% redundancy) due to traditional generation problems, such as a large nuclear plant going offline due to unforeseen circumstances, a bad year for hydro, or much higher demand than forecast. Renewables are just one more dimension of the need for backup ("resource adequacy" or "planning reserve margins" in the wonk talk lingo) and not anything qualitatively different than traditional generation.
Comment
8 of 27
June 1, 2011
Well done Tam. I make the exact point when I teach at business schools. Whether you're a skeptic makes no difference to what we would/should be doing if CC was not so pressing. The convergence of a number of issues provides forward looking companies with few options. GE switched to RE ages ago...not because the believed in climate change, but because they know that oil is running out, RE is fast becoming a cheaper option, and if you sit around arguing a moot point forever you waste a lot of time that could have helped prevent the problem in the first place.
I really don't mind skeptics, it is healthy to debate. But then there should be debate and not a mud-slinging contest like the comments on such posts often end up being.
Comment
9 of 27
June 1, 2011
More on "Price induced conservation" that confirms Tam Hunt's statements . . . a paragraph from Jack Anderson's 1983 book, 'Fiasco'[page 89]:

"Among oil economists, it was the rule of thumb that each rise of 10 percent in the price of oil lowered consumption by 2 percent because some consumers would reduce their purchases. Now it was inescapable that the disciplined maintenance by President Nixon of quotas on oil imports would, as it tightened supply relative to demand, automatically cause a slight increase in the price from year to year. A price increase of 4 percent a year, which over five years would raise the price of a barrel of crude oil 20 percent--from $3.25 to $3.89--would by the economists' rule of thumb reduce oil consumption projected for 1974 by 4 percent, or more than 600,000 barrels a day. Hence the advice to the new President from the prestigiious ECONOMIST magazine in London, in March 1969: 'If adequate exploration is to continue, higher Domestic prices are required at a time when world prices are still falling. Only the government can decide what price America should pay for being independent of insecure Middle East oil supplies . . . . This is the question that will be faced now.'"
Comment
10 of 27
June 1, 2011
Tam, you write:

'A Yale 2010 survey found that those who believe human activities are primarily responsible for climate change dropped from 57 percent in 2008 to 47 percent in 2010. And it's probably dropped further since. US News & World Report mused about this trend in a recent article, asking rhetorically whether Americans care about climate change anymore.'

This paragraph is confusing two important questions. First, whether climate change is happening; and second, the cause. Many of us were raised to believe, "If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem." But it's hard to take the blame for global destruction, especially when there are still big questions about that on many levels. Perhaps a better expression would be, "We don't have to be of the problem to be part of the solution."

Kevin Parcell
http://sunmoney.org
Comment
11 of 27
June 1, 2011
Good article Tam,

NikFromNYC China's not turning to wind eh?! http://www.gwec.net/index.php?id=125.

I do agree with STB up to a point (although definitely not his climate scepticism), if this was cheap and easy it would have been done years ago. Don't see it as a contradiction in the article though.
Comment
12 of 27
June 1, 2011
Hi:

The perception problem is really very simple. By the numbers, people do not believe that a warming planet will kill them. This perception is fact (their perception not the reality), and is not surprising. Hell, people still smoke. They pay to poison themselves!! So, given that very simple observation alone, is climate denial surprising even when there is no business interest??

To me from a Psyc perspective the whole climate reaction is very Psyc 101 regarding human behavior...

.....Bill
Comment
13 of 27
June 1, 2011
The climate change battle is wasted energy. I agree with Tam that it is becoming irrelevant in the current market.

It would be good for those in the industry to strategically leave it in the wastebasket and move on.

I definitely see it as a "chicken little" scenario trying to drum up emotions. No different than Hal Lindsey drumming up apocalyptic visions for "publicity" or for "altruism."

It's all the same. A waste of time. We need to look at our current scenario and make wise decisions as we move forward.

The AGW "theory" is hysterical, as apocalyptic theories are. It was a poor strategy that early "greens" used to get some traction. It is a "theory" which is now emotionally swallowed by current "greens" as "proven."

Tam is correct that it doesn't matter. Why try to convince people of something that doesn't matter? Especially when it was initially based on apocalyptic overstatements (and outright fabrications in some cases). So what.

The path forward is to reduce paticulates and pollution (NOT C02). It is to promote clean energy because it works, because it is good for the planet, and because it is way less "expensive" (factoring in all externalities) than the quickly dimminishing... particlate producing fossil fuels.

Tam's point is that even if we don't factor in ALL of the externalities Solar and Wind are STILL better than current fossil fuels.

In other words... Don't allow C02 to be an externality. We don't need it (and there is legitimate debate as to whether it actually IS an externality) So what! Solar and Wind still are a great decision as an energy source.

Let's keep our eyes on the ball.

Randy
Comment
14 of 27
June 1, 2011
Climate warming yes, carbon forcing not so very much. Still we have to adjust and have started to do so. The economic situation is taking some pressure off, but only for so long. Pumping heat into a warming atmosphere is not the way to go. Doing without energy is not the way to go. We have enough technology to mitigate the damage WE have done with technology.
Low profile commercial buildings can be as significant a source of solution as WE have made them a source of pollution, without tearing up deserts or building transmission lines. Those businesses, so necessary to our society and its economy, can have the energy they need and reduce their utility load and fuel usage and their emmissions.
Comment
15 of 27
June 1, 2011
Finally someone states the obvious. I no longer discuss Global Warming on any level. Is it s scam fostered by "liberals" (what ever that means) as the "conservatives" (what ever that means) claim. Most things we hear promoted on both sides have their source as a scam and with the extinction of real investigative journalism being a true fact without debate, I have little method of knowing what is true anymore. Of course that is how the REAL POWERS like it. The authors' insistence that conservation is key rings so true,and the inane nonsense postulated by those who claim any attempts to really reduce our use of fossil fuels will lead to the extinction of the human species is just pure nonsense and not even worthy of comment. I can go into just about any building or home and reduce the overall power consumption by at least %50 and in many cases as high as %75. And you lose nothing but the ridiculously high power bills. I have even seen LEED Certified facilities that are still energy hogs. More nonsense? Not unless the results I have been getting so far in achieving these levels is due to some strange mushrooms I have been eating or perhaps it's my smoking 'wacky weed". NOT! Wake up folks.
No image available
Comment
16 of 27
Anonymous
June 1, 2011
Tam writes: "wind power is as high as 25 percent in Denmark, approaching 20 percent in Spain and almost 10 percent in Germany but negligible elsewhere"

One wonders where he gets this 10% value for Germany. In 2010 German wind resources generated ~37500 GWh of energy out of a total of 621,000 GWh--this would be 6.0%. 2010 was not a windy year; in 2008 wind had its biggest contribution generating 40,300 GWh out of 621,600 GWh of demand or 6.5%. Wind power has never been close to providing 10% of electricity in Germany. This makes one wonder about the rest of the statistics quoted in the article....
Steven

P.S.:
One compilation of German renewable energy statistics is at:
http://www.volker-quaschning.de/datserv/ren-Strom-D/index_e.php
Comment
17 of 27
June 1, 2011
Sorry, Tam, but you're just plain wrong. Yes, clean energy is a winning proposition regardless of the climate change issue, and yes, the industry is growing rapidly, but the truth is that no credible projections of global energy use show renewable energy and energy efficiency making a significant dent in the current energy infrastructure anytime soon.

The problem is the speed and scale needed to change our energy system before our carbon loading on the atmosphere commits us to "dangerous levels" of climate change (though there are some indications that it's already too late ... see the latest Arctic Report Card, for instance). It'll require a massive effort to shutdown coal plants and replace them with low-carbon energy sources. See this IEA news, for instance:
http://www.iea.org/index_info.asp?id=1959

Yes, things are looking better in the United States, at least based on recent trends. And although China is building lots of wind power (much of which, unfortunately, is useless because it's not connected to the grid), China is also starting up one new coal-fired power plant per week. Those are some massive infrastructure investments to go up against with only market forces.
Comment
18 of 27
June 1, 2011
Kevin, I guess your crystal ball is a lot clearer than mine. Look, no one knows how things will unfold exactly. What I'm suggesting, however, is that today's "credible projections" of renewables vis a vis other energy sources will be shown to be inaccurate (probably highly inaccurate) because they don't take into account the incredible exponential growth we've seen in wind and solar - or the undeniable linkage between more developed economies and energy efficiency or higher fuel prices and conservation.

The EIA and IEA are notoriously bad at identifying trends until they're right in their face.

Note that I couch my projections in clear caveats: if wind and solar grow at even half the pace they've grown in recent years then we're in for a very substantial percentage of our power coming from these sources by the 2020s and 2030s. Whether wind and solar do in fact grow at this pace, time will tell.

As for China, they are in fact now leading the wind and solar transformation (China now has the largest wind capacity and is also the biggest producer of solar panels) because they have countless companies now in this space that will be knocking coal off its pedestal in China rather soon - and doing the same in other countries over time.

How about a friendly wager? $100 bucks that wind continues to grow at least 20% per year globally and 35% per year for solar, on average, during this decade? I'll collect my money Dec. 31, 2020.
Comment
19 of 27
June 2, 2011
It's simple - if you haven't noticed that the weather has changed dramatically in your lifetime, you must be living underground or are less than 20 years old. It's happening regardless if we can't agree why. The tired arguments that we can't afford renewable energy or that they're unreliable can only be believed if one doesn't follow the money. Why else would corporate titans like BP, Westinghouse, Bechtel, Sharp, Hyundai etc. be mass producing and marketing solar components. Even if their motivation is only the profit motive, it doesn't matter as long as the shift is happening to a saner safer energy source. Whether we have credible figures or not yet that prove renewables will save the energy day, i don't much care. It's the right direction and time is of the essence.
Comment
20 of 27
June 3, 2011
Tam, it's a bet. Let's hope you win it.
Comment
21 of 27
June 3, 2011
"NikFromNYC China's not turning to wind eh?!"

Percentage wise? No, it is not.
Comment
22 of 27
June 3, 2011
"We can lead."

By committing economic suicide? Lead who? Certainly not China. How would shutting down our oil and gas industries "lead" China instead of merely concede to them?

Speaking of GE, uh....it's CEO at MIT this year said:

""If I had one thing to do over again I would not have talked so much about green."

It's main business these days as far as consumer products goes is subsidized mercury vapor lamps for use in normal homes.
Comment
23 of 27
June 3, 2011
Nik, see my article that I link to in this article on costs of renewables - wind power has been cheaper than fossils for many years now in the US. That is, it saves money. That is, it's good for the economy. The rapid expansion in wind power in the US is driven as much by economics as it is by mandates. And over time mandates will matter less and less.

China is currently less than 1% wind powered but they've been doubling their capacity approximately every year for the last five years. Doubling every year or so, as I demonstrate in my article, leads to very rapid increases in penetration. China's rate of wind power growth will of course slow down a lot, but even if it can maintain "only" 30-40% annual growth for the next decade they get to about 20% wind power. And after that, who knows?
Comment
24 of 27
December 22, 2011
Amazing amount of ignorance in a lot of these comments - especially on statistics and info on how renewables are growing. China is already leading in making solar, and moving up quickly on wind. They and India need lots of power, and it is pure economics that drives massive wind and solar (and bio and Geothermal and eventually tidal) as well as Hydro growth. Yes, it is part of a mix, and they are putting in coal. The model that people are using is central power (which is already there, but costly) for "base load" and renewables for peak load. The author is right that the main reason people will move to renewable eneergy is that it costs a whole lot less - especailly when you consider long term and infrastructure needs.
Comment
25 of 27
December 22, 2011
shafflo: "The author is right that the main reason people will move to renewable eneergy is that it costs a whole lot less - especailly when you consider long term and infrastructure needs."

That is very true - but only to the degree that people are intelligent.

If people were intelligent back when parts of the building industry were claiming that insulation wasn't necessary, they would have ignored said building industry "experts." I recently heard an old advertisement (probably from the late sixties) on public radio (probably either "All Things Considered" or "Marketplace" where this statement about insulation being gratuitous was played again, apparently from an advetisement from a window manufacturing company (??).

The same is true now. As long as the government continues its massive subsides of the oil, coal, and nuclear industries, the economics of wind, solar etc. will not be as apparent. Remember how many folks bought the gas-guzzling Ford Excursion because the Bush administration had placed such a high tax rebate on such vehicles? There were no gigantic protests at the time, though that tax policy was changed - but the same is not true of the long-standing in regard to subsidies regarding oil, coal, and nuclear . . . It should also be remembered that these type of subsidies or externalities are cumulative - such dirty industries will continue to thrive so long as the public remains apathetic to the removal of such favoritism, and so long as the building industry and the public as a whole remains only lukewarm regarding basics like super-insulation.
Comment
26 of 27
December 22, 2011
If a longer term analysis is done, Solar will keep growing significantly to become the main source when competitive storage is available. Before storage is solved, solar will still become a very relevant source (> 20%) in the next 15-20 years. Massive Distributed Solar (MDS) will also be a fact. The question is if it will be in 10 or 40 years, but there is no doubt about it.
The short term analysis (less than 20 years analysis) may be subject to many distracting trends and short term facts. On the other hand, long term (40 or more years)seems to me that there are no doubts about the relevance of solar.

Given all this, the tools to analyze the grid development in the near future should consider the technological changes (specially in energy storage) , MDS and improved energy efficiency.

Climate change, still is a good short term reason for getting away from fossil fuels. But I agree that it will not matter for the real change to Solar in the mid-long term.
Comment
27 of 27
December 23, 2011
jcmunozb, you and shafflo both have a great point - and it is one that I should have thought about more . . . As solar (and other clearner, alt. methods: wind, methane from waste, proper insulation etc.) becomes cheaper it will become more widespread - and this will prompt a larger move toward it.

That (in turn) will eventually destroy the public support (and subsidies) for the dirty industries I mentioned. . .

So the subsidies to coal, nuclear, oil etc. do not have to disappear first (though at least some reduction would be nice!!!) for solar to become much more popular.

After all, wind has grown so quickly in the past ten years - yet the subsidies for it do not compare to that of the oil, nuclear and coal industries, especially in a cumulative sense (i. e. since the inception of those industries).
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Tam Hunt

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About: Tam Hunt is managing member of Community Renewable Solutions LLC, a renewable consulting and project development company focused on community-scale wind and sol... more »

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