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Don't Miss The Great Solar Debate: Where Does the Global Solar Industry Stand? Click Here to Register! ×

Myths about Large-scale Solar Threaten Public Lands

Janine Blaeloch, Solar Done Right
April 26, 2011  |  69 Comments

The Interior Department and Department of Energy are currently engaged in a large-scale plan for solar development that proposes to open up 21.5 million acres of public land to permit applications by industrial-scale solar developers. Projects will include large-scale PV and CSP plants. Much of the land being targeted is in fragile desert areas that support rare and endangered plant and animal species. And while the developments are expected to have operational lifetimes of just 30 to 50 years, their impacts will be permanent, irreversibly converting the land to industrial zones.

As someone deeply concerned about this issue, I find it particularly vexing to hear the same myths used again and again to argue for the inevitability of this approach to solar development. These myths deserve to be looked at more closely.

“We can’t meet RPS without Big Solar.” One rationale for Big Solar frequently cited is that the states' renewable energy portfolio standards (RPS) cannot be met without building "some" industrial-scale solar projects. National environmental groups, for example, frequently state that it is proper and necessary for public lands to play a role in providing room for Big Solar.

Yet studies show that California's RPS, for example, could be met just with decentralized PV. To meet California's target of 33 percent renewables by 2020, about 2,000-2,500 megawatts of PV would have to be installed each year. Even with its small size and low solar insolation, Germany installed about 3,000 MW of mostly decentralized PV in 2009 alone—and in 2010, about 6,500 MW of distributed PV.   Studies of distributed PV potential in California have found more than enough capacity on rooftops to meet the RPS, and have also identified 27,000 MW in ground-mounted capacity near rural transmission stations.

Colorado’s biggest investor-owned utility, Xcel, amended its 2007 resource plan to develop about 30 percent less concentrating solar power than originally planned and is seeking to reduce it further, citing cost as the primary reason - i.e. remote solar thermal is not cost competitive and transmission is proving a major obstacle.  

“We have to put some of it on undeveloped public land.” The claim that utility-scale solar projects must proceed on some undeveloped public land is undermined by the fact that millions of acres of contaminated and degraded land inventoried by the Environmental Protection Agency have been identified as potentially suitable for renewable energy development. In California alone, EPA has identified 1.7 million acres --with 90 of the 215 sites in parcels larger than 200 acres--potentially suitable for such use. All told, EPA has identified 15 million acres of such land nationwide.

“Industrial-scale solar is far more cost-effective than DG.” The residential rooftop solar consolidator 1 Block Off the Grid (1BOG) demonstrates that distributed PV is cost-competitive, even before factoring in the costs of transmission. For example, compare 4 kW residential PV systems sold in the San Antonio area at $6.00/Wac to the capital cost estimated for a 200 MW dry-cooled CSP plant of approximately $5.50/W.

A Los Angeles cooperative called Open Neighborhoods announced a residential PV cooperative solar buy for $4.78 per Watt, almost identical to the price for industrial scale installations.

In addition, solar PV prices are projected to drop at a much faster rate than CSP prices over time. Both the California Energy Commission and the Department of Energy project that solar PV prices will drop by half between 2010 and 2020, while CSP prices are projected to decline much more gradually.

“We are in a race against climate change, and Big Solar will win it.” Another oft-cited claim is that the remote plants are our best chance to get renewables going "big and fast" to address climate change goals. But right now, California has commitments to complete about 6,000 MW of distributed solar PV by 2016, while the big plants lag behind in time and capacity. The 6 “fast-track” remote solar projects in California that have been approved so far will provide about 3,000 MW. 

In addition, due to the real and potential legal challenges to these projects based on environmental impacts, poor analysis, and possible violations of endangered species "takings" permits, their progress will be slow and uncertain.

Moreover, whether these projects can bring a net reduction in greenhouse gases (GHGs) is called into question when considering the GHG emissions associated with the manufacture and shipping of materials for the sites, as well as the release of sequestered carbon on desert sites—which one seven-year study found at least comparable to, if not greater than, sequestration in some grassland and forest ecosystems. Transmission associated with the remote sites will also include the use of sulfur hexafluoride(SF6), an electrical insulator used in high-voltage transmission that is the most potent of the six greenhouse gases regulated by the EPA, with a global warming potential 23,900 times that of CO2.

“We can do both” big, remote, concentrating solar power and distributed generation.  John Farrell of the Institute for Local Self-Reliance recently stated: “[F]inancial resources are limited, the system of regulations and incentives are skewed toward centralized solutions, and choosing …long-distance transmission of centralized generation… reduces the money available and future prospects for expanded distributed generation.” And even if we could, why be “even-handed” to accommodate both the right approach and the wrong one?

It is not too late to pivot away from the current trajectory that would make industrial zones of public land. A useful first step would be for those who support the policy to own up to the mythical nature of their rationalizations. Alternatively, they can lag behind while the public becomes more aware of the choices before them and the possibility of doing this right.

We can confront the climate crisis in a cost-effective, timely manner —with far less harm to the environment we hope to save. To do so, we must pursue distributed PV in the built environment and on degraded lands with the alacrity with which we are now pursuing Big Solar on public lands.

 

69 Comments

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Gerry Wootton
Gerry Wootton
May 5, 2011
Ideally, you should not build on pristine wilderness or even fragile ecosystems. All land starts out as public land at some point and then is either held, developed by the government, leased to private interests or sold to private interests. There isn't one bit of privately owned or leased land that was not, at one time, public land with the exception of isolated cases of pioneering.
What I don't get is, why the focus on solar? I see vociferous objection to solar but none to urban sprawl that is consuming land at a much higher rate than even the optimistic roadmap for solar development would do and a lot of that is or was public land not so long ago. Solar developers were even complaining about the thousands of new gas projects on public land sliding through the regulatory processes with little impediment while solar projects were being held back. Why is it okay to rip roads through sensitive public lands and even state and federal land preserves without objection?
I tried to find instances of Ms. Blaeloch speaking out against urban sprawl, road building, gas and oil exploration, weapons testing, hydroelectric projects, nuclear power plants, coal and gas power plants, etc. on public lands and/or ecologically sensitive areas and found very little. In one instance, she actually describes transmission lines and gas pipelines as compatible uses of ecologically sensitive areas. I don't think you can complain that power producers want to locate near transmission lines if your also going to say that siting power transmission lines on sensitive areas is an allowable use.
But the real story is that there's going to be development on public land - the only question is what you're going to favor and what you're not. Or, in the American tradition, what you're going to complain about and what you're not. You're always going to consume energy - if you're against one kind, you're for another.
Jochen Marwede
Jochen Marwede
May 5, 2011
Hi GeraldR,
indeed, if we can make it work here we should be able to make it work in much of the US. Do you have some typical and maximum kWh/kWp/a figures for the southern US?

Today PV topped 13 GW AC delivery in the german grid (http://www.sma.de/de/news-infos/pv-leistung-in-deutschland.html). That is significant in the overall picture and nicely irons out the daytime peak consumption (http://www.transparency.eex.com/de/). No wind today, though.
My own installation is also doing well today (http://home1.solarlog-web.de/12933.html).

sunny greetings
J
Gerry Wootton
Gerry Wootton
May 5, 2011
Sorry, JayM, I forgot you are from Germany. That's a long way north and has a much wetter climate. To see the same annual insolation as southern Germany we have to go to Moosonee Ontario. The capacity factor at high elevations in the US south west is very much higher than what you can get anywhere in Germany. The US has many areas where you can not only exceed PTC performance but can almost double up the Germans in power production (per STC peak Watt). If you can make solar work in Germany, you can easily make it work in the US.
Keiichiro Sakurai
Keiichiro Sakurai
May 4, 2011
@Anoymous,

If you take a look in the 'mitigation' part of the IPCC AR4 report, you'll immediately know that science also cares about technologies, costs, markets and policies on the GHG topic.

> Equating the tracking of policy and market trends with the juried scientific

Sorry, your knowledge is not enough to tease somebody like that.
Janine Blaeloch
Janine Blaeloch
May 4, 2011
Yes, Anon, thanks. SolarSci and others may want to look at this article from Bill Powers, PE, first published in Natural Gas & Electricity Journal.

http://solar.ehclients.com/images/uploads/01-dec-10_Nat_Gas__Elec_Journal_Powers_federal_government_bets_on_wrong_solar_horse-1.pdf

Over and out--thanks for the interest, all.
ANONYMOUS
May 4, 2011
@SolarSci. I don't mean to speak for the author, but I believe the central point of this article and much of the responsive commentary is this: there are CHEAPER, FASTER and SMARTER ALTERNATIVES to remote industrial central solar power plants. Large-scale PV in the developed environment is entirely feasible. The slight economy of scale possible from remote centralized solar (if there is one) is lost when new transmission costs and 7-15% electricity losses are factored in. Anyone who is sincerely concerned about climate change, species extinction and biodiversity knows that PROTECTING OUR REMAINING INTACT ECOSYSTEMS (and the species that depend on them) must be a PRIORITY EQUAL TO REDUCING CO2. In real time, species can only adapt to climate change if they have (a) viable populations, and (b) intact habitat to migrate too. What needs to die is the old energy generation model. I'm done arguing the point. If you don't get this, its because you have motives you're obviously not disclosing.
Keiichiro Sakurai
Keiichiro Sakurai
May 4, 2011
@Anonymous:
The price for all PVs would fall, of course -- I also welcome the increase of residential solar.
But still, that does not really justify to stop (or slowdown) large-scale PVs -- why are you insisting to slowdown the use of energy source that is predicted to become lower in cost? It's ridiculous.
Keiichiro Sakurai
Keiichiro Sakurai
May 4, 2011
@janine:
On the GHG topic, which is completely a scientific topic, I've already told you a review paper -- the ground of your argument is evaluated as questionable, compared to the global&urgent risk evaluated by IPCC (that's another scientific work I've already mentioned -- your excuse can't be justified here).
Unfortunately, since you pick only the exceptions and don't really mention about the typical data, your way of 'broad-view analysis' is NOT scientific.

You should at least show how much GHGs are stored in desert grounds, and evaluate 'to what extent' we should avoid the use, while decreasing the overall risks globally.
Without that, despite your additional comments, your post can be read as insisting 'stop all of them'.
ANONYMOUS
May 4, 2011
@SolarSci. Equating the tracking of policy and market trends with the juried scientific publication process makes me doubt you are a "real" scientist. Like it or not, technology and markets are decentralizing the utility industry. While 1BOG is not accessible to EVERYONE, it reflects basic demand/supply curbs operating in current solar markets. Forbes is predicting a 50% decline in the cost of solar PV in the next decade (http://blogs.forbes.com/alexknapp/2011/04/06/the-cost-of-solar-power-is-expected-to-decline-50-over-the-next-decade/)and even industry insiders, like David Crane, CEO of NRG Energy, a majority holder in BrightSource admits, "over the next three to five years the solar business will migrate heavily from a utility-sized solar business to a more distributed solar model driven by consumer demand not by government largesse" (http://blogs.forbes.com/toddwoody/2011/04/25/nrgs-david-crane-no-new-nukes-but-the-solar-business-looks-hot/).
Janine Blaeloch
Janine Blaeloch
May 4, 2011
My broad-scale analysis is that it is not necessary for us to place Big Solar on undeveloped public lands. Between the EPA sites, DG in the built environment, and other potential "degraded" lands such as old ag land, we have other options. Everyone who points to my lack of expertise on GHG or DG or whatever is welcome to do that and find other citations they like better than those I use-- but the gist and the central point of the article regards the folly of pursuing this on functioning habitat when there are alternatives--JANINE
Keiichiro Sakurai
Keiichiro Sakurai
May 4, 2011
The approach of the 1BOG project referred here as a ground to say something like 'there, we don't need large solar', is not applicable to all residential cases, thus NOT representing the majority.

Residential systems, especially when retrofitted, usually requires customized design for each buildings, thus increasing the costs. Each houses and residents has their own shape and taste, and each houses install PVs at different years. The 1BOG-style approach, like buying together at one time/same vendor/similar systems, would reduce these costs for customization, but it's not applicable to all residential systems. 1BOG is an interesting approach indeed, but it's not the majority -- it's exceptional.
The really typical costs are seen in the stats below -- they are way far from the costs that Jane had shown.
http://solarbuzz.com/facts-and-figures/retail-price-environment/solar-electricity-prices
However, Jane's post does not mention that she's quoting exceptional numbers. If we try to stop (or slow) big solar now, then it will raise the average cost, resulting in slower deployments (and endagering of the very deserts and rare species worldwide).

Jane, it's the same to your GHG arguments --- you are writing as if some limited number of EXCEPTIONAL cases are 'TYPICAL'.
You are picking the exceptional/minor/less-reliable data that fits your purpose.

I point it out here again. The intensively-reviewed IPCC report and numerous other papers in this field are evaluating large solar effective to fight against global&urgent risks. But what you're stressing here is a (sorry to say, but) relatively limited risk. If you wish it to be considered seriously enough to slow large solar, you must make quantitative and broad-viewed analysis, not picking only those EXCEPTIONAL cases.
Then, pass the refereeing of highly ranked scientific jourals and have it reviewed scientifically and quantitatively -- otherwise, you'll rather increase the very risks you're stressing here.
Janine Blaeloch
Janine Blaeloch
May 3, 2011
Here's my belated reply to Energy Action Network's query about the industrial solar cost I cited of $4.78 (comment 3). Sorry so late--I was on vacation when this piece was put out, so had limited access to my citations.

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/blog/post/2010/11/distributed-small-scale-solar-competes-with-large-scale-pv
ANONYMOUS
April 29, 2011
If we had all been better NIMBY's in the past quarter century, and not rushed headlong down the 'growth at any cost' path perhaps we would be living more in accordance with our planet's limits and needs. As far as solar energy goes, we should all be IMBY (In My BAck Yard) like Longwatcher and JayM. Big Solar proponents want a Business As Usual fix without understanding that's what got us into this mess. It's too late to avert an ~ 3c degree warm even if we plastered the desert with solar panels tomorrow and guilt-tripping those who point out the errors of BAU is simply shooting at the messenger.
Kevin Emmerich
Kevin Emmerich
April 29, 2011
I notice when the pro energy sprawl crowd gets a bit nervous, they like to say that we are going to be responsible for the death of millions due to climate change because we are obstructing the plans designed to save the planet. Sort of the same way the Bush Administration used terrorism to say, "you're either with us or against us.

Really Bob W, if you are this concerned about greenhouse gas, than the last thing you should be supporting are the fossil fuel intensive and dependent remotely sighted CSP plants. Big CSP plants are a commitment to natural gas backup for the next three decades. Support of this will contribute to the death of many...at least according to you.

And then there is that NIMBY stuff! I just love being called a NIMBY because I consider it a great compliment. Over the past three years or so, I have been repeatedly referred to as "NIMBY" (Not in My Back Yard). I have always been baffled as to why this is a bad thing. I remember the first time I was called a NIMBY, I was very proud. After all, why would I not love our back yard? Our back yard has desert tortoise,... springs , rare cactus, abundant cultural sites and sweeping views of the Mojave Desert. I love my backyard. Get over it!

John Muir was a NIMBY!
Tim Dolan
Tim Dolan
April 29, 2011
I feel the need to point out, MY house with its 8.1kW solar PV system on the roof is in a historic district and by covering almost the entire back roof, the neighbors all thought they look far better then they thought they would. Had I only done a partial roof it would not have looked as good (or produced enough power for my needs).

I would have not been able to get away with Wind, because that would have been noticeable.

For new construction, there is no reason solar (or wind) could not be part of the artistic design of the building. Just takes some smarter architects.
Tim Dolan
Tim Dolan
April 29, 2011
Last night I forgot to mention my opinion on one topic, but first let me state up front. If I knew or reasonably believed it was necessary to sacrifice the pristine desert areas to save the planet (or even the human race), bye bye desert. However, I don't believe it is even close to being necessary. And now on to my point.

I being a bit more cynical then in my youth, believe that it is quite possible the large moneyed solar projects are deliberately aiming for the pristine desert specifically to open it up for development. In fact if that is the plan, they will want to scatter the plants about the desert so as to 'protect the environment overall by distributing the damage' or something to that affect. The goal being to have some development in an area, which will make later development even easier to push through.

Knowing it is not necessary, I see no reason to give up the land to development. It was put into reserve by what were conservatives of their time so it might be available always. In my local area I am watching beaches become more and more off-limits to private development (unlike say California, beaches in Virginia can be privately held to the low-tide mark).

I grew up in the deserts of Southern California and enjoyed being able to get away from the rest of the universe so to speak. I don't want any development into those areas if it can be avoided and in this case it can be avoided.

I personally think that all we as a nation (USA) would have to do is mandate that all new construction after a certain date offset their energy use either by solar/wind or energy efficiencies, increasing the percentage until it reaches 100% offset. This would of course significantly reduce the amount that fossil fuel based energy companies make, but for the long term security of the country and the health of the planet it is a good thing.

And the best part, no taxes required and you can even eliminate the subsidizes.
Ceal Smith
Ceal Smith
April 29, 2011
@JayM, hooray for you and your Country for getting down to the practical business of making renewable energy a reality. Germany has clearly forged the way and (as Hermann Scheer pointed out) monopoly old energy IOU interests have too much power in the US and are obstructing real progress.
ANONYMOUS
April 29, 2011
@Bob_Wallace: As long as we are demanding answers: Please explain why we should destroy intact ecosystems and further endanger endangered species when there are more rapid, cost-effective alternatives that do NOT require these sacrifices? Do the ends justify the means?

@JM: The National Renewable Energy Lab (NREL) has good real time data for solar insolation in the southwest. I believe this is the right link: http://mercator.nrel.gov/imby/
Kevin Emmerich
Kevin Emmerich
April 29, 2011
Cooking the planet happens when you scrape the ecosystem to a sterile field of mirrors.

How about cooking local economies? Yes, just think about it. A small desert town with some scenic mountains near the Colorado River. People like to go there to take boat tours, view wildlife, drive backcountry roads, you get the idea. There are some small businesses who have been there years making money off of restaurants, hotels, tour guides, etc. They are not rich, but they do OK.

All of a sudden Duke Energy or BP files an application with the BLM for 350 wind turbines towering over 450 feet all over the hills surrounding the town. BP can get Federal tax breaks and grants to keep burning fossil fuel this way. Yes, 300 construction jobs will be created. Those people usually come from somewhere else. Construction lasts two years. Tourism numbers drop. There are less birds at the wildlife refuge on the river. River tours are not as scenic. The vistas are interrupted by huge industrial wind turbines and transmission lines. Star viewing is no longer any good due to flashing red lights on every turbine. After two years, construction is over and 5 full time jobs are created. Property values drop, tourism shifts to a more scenic area. They just replaced a sustainable local tourism industry with a boondoggle that only created jobs for two years. Little energy is produced. The company over estimated the wind potential for Federal grants. Welcome to the Boom and Bust Effect of subsidized green energy on small communities...AKA Wind Colonialism
Jochen Marwede
Jochen Marwede
April 29, 2011
@GeraldR comment #64
"Nice try jaym but STC is a total fiction. You're correct that 'You never get those conditions on an operating panel'."

We are saying the same thing. Coming from Germany I am biased towards 'you never get as much as STC' which you seem to have read between the lines, but even here we do sometimes get more than rated power on a clear windy winterday at temperatures way below freezing. My point was that STC performance plus sunshine data alone is insufficient to determine anual yield.

Nice explanation of all the factors playing a role in arid climates, thanks. On the bottom line, do you have a better yield estimate than 1500 kWh/kWp/a for the southern US states?

@longwatcher,
nice system running at 1400 kWh/kWp/a. Here in a moderately sunny part of Germany I get around 1000 kWh/kWp/a (14.8 kWp Solar Fabrik mono crystaline).

best regards
J
Jim Andre
Jim Andre
April 29, 2011
one is not mutually exclusive of the other, but you know that, right?

When you ask a rhetorical question, I suppose you cannot satisfy yourself with any answer other than your own.
Jim Andre
Jim Andre
April 29, 2011
First, I'm not willing to destroy quality ecosystems, not even recklessly destroy a few thousand as you would, as a first alternative - not when so many viable alternative lands and sites exist for solar facilities. To do so would be unwise. We should site renewables in the least environmentally impacting areas. That's the definition of green.

Cooking the planet vs. saving species? Impacts of global climate change, and climate change itself, is curbed by maintained healthy viable ecosystems. By siting solar development in the already degraded and built environment, not only do we accomplish goals to reduce GHG emissions, but also we protect our carbon-sinks and species diversity. The choice is ours.

That's the word count-limited answer to your inquiry.
Jim Andre
Jim Andre
April 29, 2011
Ok, a lot of words and hem and hawing, but you answered by saying "a few thousand acres" Thanks.
Jim Andre
Jim Andre
April 29, 2011
I earlier said 'Meanwhile the reality of thousands of species being chased from their homes at Ivanpah Valley as I type reminds me, this is not just a theoretical or philosophical question.'

you said 'Perhaps you mean thousands of individual organisms?
If it's thousands of species would you please provide a link?'

I see you're skeptical Bob, why am I not surprised?

Yes I meant THOUSANDS of species; billions or trillions of organisms.

Here's a quick estimate of the ISEGS project site alone and does not include indirect impacts to surrounding areas, which would double the numbers. This list is compiled by me (I'm an expert in the CA desert flora) and my colleagues here at UC Riverside with expertise in desert vertebrates and insects:

250-300 vascular plant taxa (simply reference the EIS if you don't want to believe me)
75-100 species of moss, lichen, fungi, algae
Numerous soil cyanobacteria and diatoms
25-30 mammal species (from kit fox, bobcat, badger, skunk and coyote to numerous mice, woodrat, hares, bats, squirrels, etc?)
22-26 herps (12-14 snake species, approx. 10 lizards and skinks, a frog)
75-100 bird species
250-300 moths
400-500 bees, flys and wasps
250-300 beetles and true bugs
500-1000 other invertebrates including nematodes, spiders, ants, etc?

What does that add up to?

And Bob, you still haven't answered my question from above. Here it is again. A simple acreage figure is all you need to provide: 'Just curious, and if you need to believe this as a hypothetical, feel free, but what acreage of pristine desert ecosystem are you willing to sacrifice given the same viable alternatives are available on rooftops, parking lots, vacant lots and degraded ag lands? 5,000 ac? 50,000 ac? 500,000 ac?'
Tim Dolan
Tim Dolan
April 28, 2011
Because some folks have been arguing over solar PV production. Some actually data from a 4.5 hour per day Zone (AKA SE Virginia)
My 8.1kW system (SunTech 270 watt panels) produced 11,318kWh over a 1 year period. It is not optimal placement, but close and it is shaded in early morning, although clears quickly and remains unshaded for most of the day. It had more morning shade, but I was concerned about my two oldest trees, since all my other older trees had already come down in storms, so I swapped them for some apple trees, which will never grow high enough to shade the roof. It requires no cleaning so far as we have more then enough rain in Virginia to wash off any dust.

Meanwhile I note the local power company separately argued that net metered distributed solar was/will be a burden on their grid, while simultaneously arguing that the project THEY were installing on multiple roofs in an area in Northern Virginia would lessen the problems on their grid.

I see no NEED for putting large solar arrays in undeveloped areas. but, I do see a need to preserve undeveloped areas.
I do recognize that so far energy storage seems to be best done by centralized thermal storage units, but the thermal storage, does not necessarily have to be in undeveloped areas. In fact I think you could maybe replace out of date coal plants with thermal storage plants. With luck maybe some even better form of energy storage will become available that be placed at the neighborhood level.

So short form, don't need large arrays, Power Companies speak with forked tongues, and the future is wide open if we use our brains.
Gerry Wootton
Gerry Wootton
April 28, 2011
Nice try jaym but STC is a total fiction. You're correct that 'You never get those conditions on an operating panel'. First, at high elevation and/or in an arid climate and/or away from smog you can get quite a lot more than 1000 W/m^2. Second, the operating temperature of the panel is generally many degrees above ambient but that depends on air density, temperature, wind-speed, inclination, back-side free-space and ground emissivity. Solar panels are also rated at PTC which is a fictitious combination of these parameters representing a typical installation. This gives a hint as to the potential real performance. California has some real beauty spots incorporating high elevation, low average temperatures, high average wind and high albedo soil where PTC performance can be easily exceeded. For ground mount over light soil, operating temperature might be 15 to 20 C above ambient resulting in a mid-day loss of 7 to 10%. That can be more than offset by a combination of altitude, less atmospheric content than assumed in the AM 1.5 theoretical model and more indirect light from ground reflection. Also, ambient temperature less than 25 C can also help - at 5C you're probably in the neighborhood of STC performance.
If you meant to say, you can't determine the AC capacity by simply multiplying the STC rating by the meteorological data typically given as kWh/m^2/year for a latitudinally inclined flat plate, you're right. But don't assume that it's going to be substantially lower in an arid location. In any case, it is what it is. That, by itself, is just a fact that plays into the economics but decides nothing. The fact that a natural gas peaker has a peak efficiency of 30 to 40% and an operational efficiency of 20 to 25% doesn't seem to be an argument against their use other than natural gas costs money and sunlight doesn't.
Jochen Marwede
Jochen Marwede
April 28, 2011
Hi Bob,
no, you cannot just use an insolation map and multiply it with rated panel power. There is more to it. Quite a number of variables go into the yield calculation which is usually simulated with computer programs. This is a great one for Europe and Africa http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/ (use system losses of 10% instead of default 14% to get realistic results). There must be similar sites for the US.

97% inverter efficiency is available and (nearly) standard nowadays (still a lot of 95% Models being sold, but not many below that). There are other losses though, that add up quite a bit. Don't have micro-inverter data at hand. The ones I have seen for new module inverters are also 96+%, but not tested widely in reality yet.

best regards
J
Dennis Houghton
Dennis Houghton
April 28, 2011
The Hanford Nuclear Reservation is sited on @540 sq. miles of central Washington desert. Technically it is called arid-steppe land but with <7" of rain per year it sure looks like desert. The site has been undergoing extensive and expensive Superfund clean-up for more than 20 years. DOE intends to open all but @40 sq. miles to industrial development. All the rest of that area has never been contaminated by radioactive or toxic chemicals. In fact having been protected by armed guards and fences it is some of the most undisturbed open land to be found anywhere. There are lots of creatures although they occasionally become contaminated and are therefore controlled within the exclusion zones. Despite 50 miles of waterfront on the last free-flowing stretch of the Columbia River it is highly unlikely to become a residential resort or even a desirable recreational destination. Agricultural development seems out of the question, except maybe biofuels. But big solar would work well here too.

All of the plutonium production facilities have been shutdown and decontaminated. Each was served by a high capacity substation/grid connection with direct BPA link to the California intertie via HVDC. Extensive hydropower and a nuclear plant are within a few miles. There is a skilled and environmentally aware construction force that works on site daily, trained and aware of potential hazards. The solar resource is actually pretty good and is far better than almost anywhere in Germany. What's not to like except it is not in the Southwest and perhaps plutonium plays into the bias.

BTW: Our friendly local nuclear plant claims to be carbon-free yet at any given time 24/7 there are 300-500 personal automobiles in the parking lot. The closest residential area is @20 miles away. @30-50,000 vehicle miles per day to operate the carbon-free nuke plant
Jochen Marwede
Jochen Marwede
April 28, 2011
Hi Bob,
you are off with your sunshine hours and resulting energy yield. The peak power of PV panels is rated at 1000 W/m2 at 25 deg C and an airmass of 1.5 (influences the spectrum of light used in the flasher tests used to rate the panels). You never get those conditions on an operating panel (if you get 1000 W/m2 the temperature will be way above 25 deg C leading to a derating of the power output in real life).
Also, the sun might shine for many hours, it only has full intensity for very few of them, and only rarely hits the panel at right angles.
On top of that effect you get cable and inverter losses.

All told, in sunny climates and with optimum, but fixed angle you get about 1500 kWh (AC) per year for every kWp installed.
Your 7 sunshine hours at full load would equate to an average yield of 2550 kWh/kWp/a. This is a factor 1.7 too high.

I have taken another bit off to account for some sub-optimal placement and used 1400 kWh/kWp/a in my calculation.

But given all the assumptions we both used, we are in the right ballpark.

sunny regards
J
Jim Andre
Jim Andre
April 28, 2011
@ JayM. Nice information thanks. I would add that opportunities for space are not limited to rooftops certainly, as millions of ac. of very degraded lands also exist. Meanwhile the reality of thousands of species being chased from their homes at Ivanpah Valley as I type reminds me, this is not just a theoretical or philosophical question. It's a call to action.
Jochen Marwede
Jochen Marwede
April 28, 2011
Dear all,
Let me give it a go (assuming the question is for real and not just a personal jab at jandre).

1 million acres (= ca. 40 x 40 miles) would take about 500 GWp worth of PV panels (cSi, 8 m2 per kWp) when laid flat and about 250 GWp when positioned at an angle with space between the rows to avoid self-shading. The latter is more reasonable and cost efficient. Depending on the type of panel 250 GWp equates to about 0.8 to 1.2 billion individual panels.

Annual global PV production in 2010 was ca. 27.2 GWp, end year production capacity was ca. 36.6 GWp. For 2011 this is set to increase to over 60 GWp, give or take a couple fo GWp either way (source: http://www.solarserver.com/solar-magazine/solar-news/current/2011/kw12/photon-global-pv-cell-production-expanded-118-to-272-gw-in-2010.html)

Diverting all global production capacity to the US it would take just over 4 years to produce the 250 GWp worth of panels, assuming no further growth of production, but a 250 GWp order from the US would surely trigger some expansion ;-)

Annual electricity yield from 250 GWp in southern US states would be about 350 TWh/a or ca. 10% of US electricity consumption.

You'd get a few grid issues if you tried this all in one place, and you'd need quite a bit of energy storage to flatten out the mid-day peaks.

My interpretation:
- there should be a million acres of roof space in the southern US
- timeline is challenging, but it could be done in 5 - 10 years
- we better get serious with solving grid management and storage issues
- get going!

best regards
J
Janine Blaeloch
Janine Blaeloch
April 28, 2011
Wow, it's hard to know how to respond to a dominant commenter who so bitterly implies that all the others are ignorant--I thought this website would be less conducive to that kind of posting behavior. Bob, et al., I will, as promised, try to fill in whatever citation blanks I may have left when I am back in my home town and have leisure to do so. In the meantime....I guess I am nonplussed that Bob would so vociferously and voluminously keep beating at the point of how little land area of the desert might be developed...it is not only irrelevant in ecological terms, but it seems to suggest an entrenched belief that we SHOULD do that, despite alternatives. Re Bob's response to andrej's remarks about the acreage--I don't think anyone would suggest that the full 21.5 million acres will be developed--but what the BLM has chosen as its Preferred Alternative is 33 times the size of its original plan, and that was the plan that was supposed to have been based on already vetted "no-conflict" areas. So one has to wonder--if they started out looking at 676,000 acres, which were subsequently to be whittled down to only the most appropriate areas, what does it say that they have now expanded that area so greatly? I believe it says industry is driving the process and demanded much, much more flexibility. Meanwhile, the public that is trying to review the proposal has less certainty and precision to work with than they did even under the 676K alternative. The worst part of all of this is that millions are being spent on this EIS process (and multiple millions more on individual permitting), and people are sweating bullets over the EIS's 11,000 pages-- while alternative sitings on the EPA lands and on rooftops are not being pushed at all.
Jim Andre
Jim Andre
April 28, 2011
just checking in, noticing bob spiraled into personal attacks in lieu of not being able to answer the question I asked of him. Simple logic question Bob, give it a go.
william mcdonald
william mcdonald
April 28, 2011
At long last I think I have figured out Mr. Bob Wallace, through the last comments between him and Mr. Andre.

Is it possible that he works or has an equity interest in large csp plants? Could that be the reason for doing absolutely all he can to shoot down the arguments on behalf of distributed power on rooftops, and not in the desert hundreds of miles from the users?

Call me naive, but why else would he work so long and hard on behalf the BrightSource's, the First Solar's of the world, here in this forum?

Look it really is pretty simple, it's all about greed and not about green, in my opinion.

Big enviro groups working hand in hand with the industrialists and their enablers, government bureaucrats, set up this system and got in place, with the desert painted with a huge bullseye before most people,even activists knew what was happening.

And now the desert pays the price, even though another branch of the government and others point out reasonable alternatives.

But I get the greed angle alright, and now with the BrightSource folks readying their initial public offering, without the project even 1/3 finished, you can bet the rest of the wanna be green "entrepeneurs" are hoping lightning will strike for them too!

Put up none of your own money, slap it all on the taxpayers, and let the environment and everyone else be left to hold the bag, long after you have run for the hills with all the loot!

Am I missing something here?

No matter how you gussy it up and talk up the high quality bread, if the filling is crap, that's all you got.

Crappy big dollar boondoggles to rust away in the sun.

What a great scam.
Jim Andre
Jim Andre
April 28, 2011
Millions of acres is what is on the table Bob, you can deny that if you like, and there's no point in arguing with you about it if that's that's your choice.

Just curious, and if you need to believe this as a hypothetical, feel free, but what acreage of pristine desert ecosystem are you willing to sacrifice given the same viable alternatives are available on rooftops, parking lots, vacant lots and degraded ag lands? 5,000 ac? 50,000 ac? 500,000 ac?
Jim Andre
Jim Andre
April 28, 2011
@ Bob Wallace. You're talking in circles Bob. You quote research by Barry Sinervo (a personal friend of mine) and yet ignore Barry's public outrage at the use of pristine public lands for solar facilities. What you don't seem to understand, he fully does. You cannot kill the planet to save it, especially when so much degraded land and rooftop acreage is available to accomplish the renewables goal.

Then you state, naively: "What I'm calling for is that people concerned with preserving the desert get 100% involved in 'best siting' facilities". As a Univ. of Calif. scientist, I have been involved in the "process" of siting facilities since the program's inception years ago, and I can tell you it's been quite boring because there has not been a process. It goes like this – applicant applies to BLM for permit anywhere they damn well please, EIS is completed with findings of significant impacts, CEC or BLM issues a decision of overriding considerations (lacking any scientific basis), and the project moves forward.

The process needs to be a comprehensive evaluation of all lands, including the built environment. My colleagues and I have been screaming for this to happen rather than the existing application process whereby every alluvial slope and valley in the desert is on the table. It's a process alright, but not one based upon an evaluation of the science and the land, but rather a political process whereby economic considerations (profits to corporations via taxpayer subsidy) are given full considerations rather than the land

Those who love the desert, or those of us scientists whose data and expertise is not being involved in these decisions, are outraged by the lack of a siting process. Rather than telling us to get involved in a non-existent siting process, you should be outraged for the lack of a process and try to do something about it (like we are).
Jochen Marwede
Jochen Marwede
April 28, 2011
Hi there,
a couple of years ago I was still sitting on the fence. By now the downward cost dynamic of PV is so strong that I believe CSP has missed the boat and will not catch up.

The one big technical advantage of CSP is thermal storage for electricity generation at a later point in time. For that you buy a number of difficult problems like needing big transmission lines and water use for cooling in arid areas. A big benefit (or disadvantage): CSP aligns well with financially strong industries.

But the german example shows that many people are willing to invest in distributed PV if the boundary conditions are right. We have close to 900 000 installations now and about as many owners (some own two or more installations, some installations are owned by more than one person). That makes roughly 900 000 power producing companies! You can see a real time estimate of PV power in the german grid at www.sma.de , last week around noon we had up to 11.9 GW of solar power in the grid (out of a total of ca. 40 GW). Grid issues are raising their head especially in the south of Germany, and ways to managing those are starting to be deployed and developed.

So what about storage? CSP stores energy in the form of heat. Distributed PV can do the same. In summer it correlates nicely with airco needs. You can run the airco compressor a bit harder when the sun shines (or when other cheap electricity is available) and store the energy in the form of 'coolth'. Check out www.ice-energy.com for commercial products doing just that (I am not associated with Ice Energy, I am just using them as an example).
Same works in winter with a heat pump and hot water buffer storage. Distributed PV has big advantages in reducing peak loads on the grid infrastructure and has already avoided grid strenghtening in California.
A huge advantage is that distributed PV does not need ANY new area to be dug up, plowed over, sealed or modified in other ways except maybe visually.
J
ANONYMOUS
April 28, 2011
Gerald,
Californians are not the people leaving the trash in the desert--the majority of that stuff is courtesy of the illegal drug and human cargo businesses that our government seems completely fine with subsidizing--food, water, transportation, and medical care for FREE for all "commers". Ultimately the CA political powers are looking for more voters in order to ensure their hold on power--Nancy Pelosi isn't as dumb as she appears while speaking.
Gerry Wootton
Gerry Wootton
April 28, 2011
Don't get me wrong ... I really like unspoiled nature. One thing I've noted about Californians in particular is that they leave garbage everywhere and they rarely follow the least destructive path - my California wilderness experiences have been dissapointing. Witness the typical nature lover in their heavy cleated hiking boots sitting by the trail crushing a patch of low vegitation while the wrapper of their granola bar flutters away on the wind. But soon they tire of tearing up the ground with their heavy trod and amble back to their parked SUV taking a shortcut through some brush breaking off some branches as they go. They love nature so much, they're prepared to love it to death. Kill every predator within a few miles of the backyards so that poor little tabby's life won't be in danger while she's out there killing birds. Turn up the AC (and put more coal on the fire)- don't see how that can hurt unspoiled nature when it's so far away. I'm not sure what Californians think unspoiled nature looks like but I'm pretty sure it has a parking lot in front of it and a road through it.
Kevin Emmerich
Kevin Emmerich
April 28, 2011
Post removed part again. This last post was in response to Bob W.
Kevin Emmerich
Kevin Emmerich
April 28, 2011
The development of large solar in the desert relating to species and climate change will require some thinking. Kneejerk reactions to place big, 4,000 acre renewable facilities in connectivity pathways will not preserve the tortoise or any lizard. Climate change is more likely to impact the tortoise than most desert lizards that have larger windows of adaptation relating to thermoregulation. But the point is, adaptation to changing climates will require long, un- interrupted movement corridors. To use climate change as a debate and excuse for the wholesale removal of habitat is counter productive to your debate. Indeed, placing the Palen project where they want to cuts off migratory pathways for Mojave fringe-toed lizards due to a removal of sand habitat, source of habitat and the actual pathway that would take several generations of lizards to reach the higher Pinto Basin if indeed they would need to migrate upwards. The study you posted proves that the large scale solar sprawl you support will expedite the extinction process that you are concerned about from climate change.
Gerry Wootton
Gerry Wootton
April 28, 2011
Apparently, several of the last commenters did not take aligatorhardt's advisement into consideration. The problem with EVs is their low resistance tires: it takes a lot of energy to make them and it produces some polution and they're not biodegradeable. Why can't they make them out of an environmentally friendly material such as wood or laminated corn straw?:) Almost every form of power generation except for wind and flat plate solar needs water - some more than others (most a lot more than CSP). Every power project developer wants to be near a transmission line so that he can sell what he makes - it's not like grid operators are motivated to help out power producers and, in any case, there are those who would oppose any new transmission line just as much as a power station (see above). Many power producers have even more requirements e.g. must be next to a large body of water, must be next to a rail line, must be near a road, must be near a gas pipeline, must not be near a fault line, etc. Many human activities threaten the environment - more tortoises get run over by eco-tourists and off-road joy riders than are threatened by a solar project. So let's protect them by getting out there in your ATVs or hiking boots and beat down the vegetation that tortoises feed on. HVDC transmission is the most efficient means of carrying power over any distance regardless of how the electricity is made - THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SOLAR (sorry for shouting but some of you seem to be deaf). If anything,it permits energy projects to be sited in the most appropriate spot without worrying too much about grid loss. And no, it's not practical to use bare wires. Even the use of bare wire and/or AC for conventional transmission is not ideal for efficiency, it's just cheaper to build. Ideally, nothing should be built on ecologically sensitive areas but, most large energy projects are built there, many on 'free' public land - nothing to do with solar.
Ceal Smith
Ceal Smith
April 28, 2011
Arguing for its own sake will get us nowhere. Janine makes many good and valid points that deserve serious consideration. She has obviously looked deeply into the issues.

By driving up the cost and controversy of renewable energy, and diverting scarce financial resources, Big Solar is holding us back considerably:

http://www.grist.org/article/2010-11-05-focus

http://energyselfreliantstates.org/content/centralized-v-decentralized-clean-energy-we-may-have-choose

CSP is a 19th century technology that is not competitive w/solar PV (and we have storage alternatives):

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/blog/post/2011/03/busting-4-myths-about-solar-pv-vs-concentrating-solar-power

And last, the vast urban-suburban and otherwise developed environment offers more than enough "solestate" to generate the clean, and green energy we need:

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2011/04/the-solar-golden-mean?cmpid=rss

There is no need to destroy our valuable (albeit unappreciated) deserts and push struggling species over the edge.
Fred Widicus
Fred Widicus
April 28, 2011
WHY are developers avoiding private land that is already "disturbed"?
The answer is: because BLM land is basically "free"--most developers can't juice up their development fees to where they want them on private land--these are FREE RIDERS in every sense of the term. They will want water rights as well.
Make no mistake, the extraction of $ is all that is underway--actual power production and value to grid security aren't major concerns--bottom line/IRRs and the ecosystem be damned.
Kevin Emmerich
Kevin Emmerich
April 28, 2011
My message got cut off about half way, here is the rest:


The applications for CSP plants are becoming dinosaurs mostly due to financing and the fact that even dry cooled desings are too water intensive. Developers not only don't care about wildlife, but often make plans to use construction, cooling and mirror washing water that have the potential to draw down local aquifers that impact small communities. Desert aquifers are usually not recharged and that even 50 acre feet of construction water has been seen as a threat to local communities like Desert Center, California.

Big solar applications are located in every desert basin. Each plant would use up 4 to 10,000 acres. There are hundreds of applications and the Obama Administration has fallen dreadfully short of developing this energy in an environmentally friendly way. They really do want over a million acres. That is too much. One 4,000 acre plant can destroy a whole aquifer, a population of threatened tortoise and ruin the view next to one of our favorite national parks.

We have often tried to provide a disturbed lands alternative. These are always rejected mostly because a solar or wind developer wants a good deal on public land next to a transmission line. It's all about using public lands for corporate welfare. The term "disturbed" has often been applied to very pristine land that only has one or two tire tracks on it. This applies to the Silver State Project, Palen, Genesis, Ivanph, Calico, etc, etc, etc.

We are at least lucky that the media and the public are now looking down on BrightSouce Energy and the Bureau of Land Management for approving the Ivanpah Solar disaster in some of the most critical tortoise habitat left in the Mojave Desert. That is not looking too good to their "green, ethical" investors.

Eight GW in Germany in the built environment. Are we learning yet?
Keiichiro Sakurai
Keiichiro Sakurai
April 28, 2011
Not only from the GHG-related point of view, this Jane's blogpost is illogical also from the economical point of view.

Jane quotes the word '[F]inancial resources are limited..' and says something like we should go 'cost-effective'.
But which is truly cost-effective in total? One can easily assume from the solarbuzz stats below.
http://solarbuzz.com/facts-and-figures/retail-price-environment/solar-electricity-prices

The electricity from large ground-based PV systems are about 20% LOWER IN COST than smaller rooftop systems. Why does she try to slow the deployment of systems lower in cost, within the same section caring about costs? This is ridiculous.
Kevin Emmerich
Kevin Emmerich
April 28, 2011
In response to the first post by Bob Wallace:

This is the kind of short sighted thinking that created all of these problems in the first place. This tired old, the desert is dying anyway, so let's develop it is really a cop out. Not too many people are buying the old "kill the Earth to save it" anymore. This dying population of lizards (it would be nice if you could give us the species name) in not likely to reap the C02 saving benefits of massive CSP plants anytime soon. Construction of CSP plants is C02 intensive, employing massive Earth movers, plant shredders, thousands of truck loads of supplies, commuters using gas powered vehicles for the next 30 years, SF6 gases (another greenhouse gas from transmission insulation) and removal of C02 storing soils and plants. Just how long is it going to take before we can measure the benefits of all this massive, fossil fuel intensive development? The Blythe Project builders, Solar Millennium, proudly boast that the project would use as much steel as to took to build the Golden Gate Bridge. Will they melt that steel with high powered magnifying glasses? I don't think so. This is a big commitment to fossil fuel. Why is it that the supporters of this new green revolution always support the most fossil fuel intensive ways to use green energy? The Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System (the one that is killing a bulk of threatened desert tortoise) has a big natural gas backup. In fact, the projected megawatts are only capacity. They never factored in summer monsoons and winter mountain shadows. In reality, BrightSource will probably be running C02 natural gas backup far more than they claimed. More C02 from the big green energy crowd!

The applications for CSP plants are becoming dinosaurs mostly due to financing and the fact that even dry cooled desings are too water intensive. Developers not only don't care about wildlife, but often make plans to use construction, cooling and mirror washing water that have the potenti
ANONYMOUS
April 28, 2011
Ah yes ... and McDonald's is responsible for all the fat people.
Solar is a good target: they're young and inexperienced and don't yet own many politicians.
Area-wise, less than the area of highways or access roads through the Mojave - some of which Ms. Blaeloch appears to have used (hopefully, she enjoyed tromping the much beloved cryptobiotic crust into oblivion as she rambled about - the problem with pristine being it only takes less than 5% of the effort to do more than half the damage). Less than the area occupied by pipelines. Less than one year's worth of urban sprawl expanding into the Mojave area. Sure, keep solar out of the 'prisitine' areas of the Mojave, otherwise it will get in the way of ongoing oil and gas exploration. Contrary to what andrej says, there are tailings pits larger than this in coal country - but who doesn't love coal? While we're at it lets blame the Chinese for choking off the supply of rare earth material - soon to be a major justification for digging up parts of the Mojave.
Jim Andre
Jim Andre
April 28, 2011
@Bob Wallace. Indeed, 1 million ac. not 21 million would likely meet even American's over-consumptive needs for electricity, and could quite easily be found on degraded lands, rooftops, parking lots, etc... So why is Salazar going after so much more? Why the land rush? Why the unrestricted selection of your most pristine and scenic public lands? You should be frustrated. But you're misdirecting your frustration at smart thinking and courageous writers like Ms Blaeloch for exposing the myth of big solar and whose ideas for fast clean and actually green solar development we should heed. You should be outraged by your govt for unnecessarily laying waste to America's natural heritage, complete with massive taxpayer stimulus subsidies to wealthy corporations. It's hard to blame Chevron, Brightsource, Texaco, they're being offered a deal so sweet they'd be crazy to pass on it. But if the same incentives were applied to developing solar on brownfields and the near-source built environment, we would not be having this discussion. We simply cannot let politics trump common sense when the consequences are this great.
Patrick O'Leary
Patrick O'Leary
April 28, 2011
All the commercial industrial roofing in this country is already built and close to a consumer. No siting issues, no transmission losses. OF course, that will mean fewer profits.
Janine Blaeloch
Janine Blaeloch
April 28, 2011
All, thanks for the comments! Bob, I do think you skipped over quite a lot if you believe I am trying to stop development of solar--or if you believe putting it in undisturbed sites is necessary. As you suggest I should do, I am trying to help steer the developments to more appropriate places, that is what's behind writing this piece--and Solar Done Right has been continuously reminding people about the EPA's contaminated lands because it seems so mistaken that the Administration would have that potential out there and pursue undeveloped public land instead.
There are some stats people have asked for, and I will try to get those up here. I originally wrote this piece with footnotes and had to convert all of those to suitable hyperlinks, and those two things are often not the same thing, so a layer can get lost in the process. I'm traveling over the next few days but will respond when I can.
Shaun Gonzales
Shaun Gonzales
April 28, 2011
Yes, climate change is an urgent problem. But there is a collective of profiteers who wish to use the specter of climate change to gain access to taxpayer backed financing and public land for their own bottom line. Renewable energy's promise is empty unless we can use its innovativeness and flexibility to truly protect our public lands, and not destroy them. Janine's piece argues for siting of utility scale on disturbed lands, and an investment in distributed generation. Otherwise our renewable energy" future" looks just like our past- giving up our natural resources to any private interest that comes asking.
Keiichiro Sakurai
Keiichiro Sakurai
April 28, 2011
Anonymous,

Still, Jane is insisting to stop some of the big solar, which would slow down the overall speed of deployment. Isn't she?
I've pointed out that her basis of this argument on this GHG topic is not robust enough to insist that. She would at least have to find a paper that shows a reliable estimate of the AMOUNT of the carbon sequested in broader areas, not a RATE measurement for a limited time and a few specific points.

I had mentioned only about the desert thing, but the same can be said for the SF6 argument. Even though the GWP of SF6 is larger than CO2, the CO2 emission from fossil-fuel-fired power plants are far more larger in quantity, thus also larger in overall effect on climate change (as analyzed by IPCC). That means, though the grid expansion indeed can increase the use of SF6, the resulting REDUCTION of GHG (plus pollutions) emission from fossil fuels easily overwhelm that -- which would do better for all the deserts round the world.

However, for both cases, Jane is arguing about the smaller, limited and questionable risks, while almost ignoring the larger risks that can be infinite unless we take actions quick enough -- the risks indicated by tons of evidences collected through decades of work, confirmed by thousands of specialists in that field.

As we live, it's unavoidable to damage the nature in some way. But we have the technology to reduce&limit that damage, quicker the better. However, Jane's endangering the very deserts, EVERY deserts in the world, by insisting to slow down that process, with far more questionable & less quantitative grounds.

Jane. Before you pull the legs of other people on this topic, you should make more quantitative analysis and pass the refereeing of Nature or Science. Especially when they have been working hard for over 50 years, to solve the biggest problems, including your very worries.
ANONYMOUS
April 28, 2011
PUT IT WHERE IT'S NEEDED - AT THE POINT OF USE in the VAST urban landscape that we've already claimed for human use, or those thousands of EPA sites that are already rendered uninhabitable. No costly (and inefficient) transmission lines. No corporate boondoggles. No long and protracted legal battles. Let the tortoises and all the other desert life live. What's the problem?
Jim Andre
Jim Andre
April 28, 2011
Several of the comments here (Wallace, alligatorhardt) imply that impacts from big solar are exaggerated or overstated, in part because there is a belief that the desert is vast enough that 20 million ac. is minimal. This is a common misconception.

The Mojave Desert is roughly 27 million ac. in size, with approx. 10 mil. dedicated to military bases and a few urban areas (e.g. Las Vegas). The remaining lands are (at present) quite pristine, and collectively represent THE LARGEST unfragmented and intact ecosystem left in the U.S. outside of Alaska. Landscape level processes (e.g., bighorn sheep metapopulation dynamics) are still functioning here. 10% of the plants remain undescribed by science.

So why be concerned with a few million ac. of solar panels? One problem is that approx. 200 proposed solar projects parlayed by Salazar's plan are pseudo-randomly distributed. A project will severely impact ecological processes well beyond its project footprint, causing indirect impacts to surrounding lands that include obstructed migration and gene flow, altered soils and hydrology and pollinator guilds, introduction of exotic species, etc. In a scenario where millions of ac. of land is bulldozed and 3 to 5 times that indirectly degraded, extinctions are inevitable. Surrounded by industry, places like Joshua Tree National Park become sterile islands that will slowly decay.

This scale of impact is indeed unprecedented. If big solar goes forward as planned, we will destroy more acres of land in 3-5 years than have been mined in the entire U.S. since the passage of the 1872 Mining Act.

Fortunately we do not need to destroy one ac. of our pristine public lands as the sun also shines on degraded lands and the already built environment. Ms Blaeloch does an excellent job of presenting the many viable alternatives to satisfying our renewable energy needs and reducing GHG emissions without killing off the last of our wild natural heritage.
ANONYMOUS
April 28, 2011
@Bob_Wallace RE: "We have no valid option other than the "old energy" model. Very, very few are going to be willing to do what I and a handful of others do and maintain our own private utility companies".

The utility industry is undergoing decentralization very similar to how the communications industry was revolutionized by the personal computer in the 80's. Google "Smart-grid", "energy storage" and "distributed generation" and you will be amazed.

As I pointed out earlier, even Big Solar CEO's are getting it.
ANONYMOUS
April 28, 2011
@Bob_Wallace RE: "Anon - why would large solar installations not let us cut our greenhouse reductions?"

The important point is, we don't know. A short imaginary walk through the "life of a Big Solar power plant" suggests a rather large footprint... Enter, tens of thousands of vehicles trips hundreds of miles to and from the construction site over ~ 2 yrs, permanent removal of topsoil, vegetation and normal carbon-plant-soil sequestration processes of square miles of desert, tens of thousands of concrete footings, three ~100x450' towers, miles of new transmission and SF6....you get the idea. Until an actual accounting is done, how do we know?
ANONYMOUS
April 28, 2011
.....that last sentence should read, "What if Big Solar [does not equal] Big GHG reductions.
ANONYMOUS
April 28, 2011
@SolarSci, RE: "Moreover, by citing this article as a reason to stop the big solar, you're ignoring the difference in future risks -- if we don't reduce the use of fossil fuels instead, we'll CONTINUE to emit more polluting gases and GHGs into our dearest atmosphere, which will become larger than the LIMITED amount of GHGs sequested in deserts".

A more careful reading would tell you that Ms. Blaelock is not suggesting we "stop the big solar", but rather that we put it in more appropriate places. In doing so, we not only avoid irreversible impacts to intact desert ecosystems and endangered species, but perhaps also save ratepayers and taxpayers considerable cost. Lower cost = more renewable energy, no?

The life cycle carbon balance of Big Solar is poorly understood. Until we have reasonable data, had we better not follow the precautionary principle? What if Big Solar ? Big GHG reductions?
Ceal Smith
Ceal Smith
April 28, 2011
Wow, JayM, that is incredible data - thank you! And thank you Ms. Blaeloch for your courage in questioning the short-sited path DOI/Salazar is taking us down with regard to public lands and renewable energy development. Entrenched near-monopoly energy/utility interests are lobbying hard to force solar energy into the "old energy" model and Salazar and corporate enviros have fallen right into step. THIS is the biggest obstacle to making the rapid, cost-effective RE gains we need to head off climate change. But technology and markets are working in our favor. Even David Crane, CEO of NRG Energy, a majority holder in the troubled BrightSource/Ivanpah Solar Electric Generation Station recently admitted to Forbes, "We think over the next three to five years the solar business will migrate heavily from a utility-sized solar business to a more distributed solar model driven by consumer demand not by government largesse".
Allen Gerhardt
Allen Gerhardt
April 27, 2011
I think the complaints against "big solar" are greatly exaggerated. And when the blame for wire insulation is handed to solar power it enters ridiculous. There is already agreements to change the insulation formula, but that is no different than the wire from any electrical generation.
When you block commercial projects, you are inviting and ensuring that coal or nuclear will get those dollars instead. The most serious threat to all life comes from coal pollution and nuclear contamination. Without cleaner replacements those truly dirty plants must keep running, and even increase in number.
As bob pointed out, we are talking about a very tiny amount of desert area. The impacts claimed about destruction of tortoise are unbelievable considering the small amount of area in question. When opponents use exaggerations and unrealistic projections, I must consider them to be irrational.
Janine Blaeloch
Janine Blaeloch
April 27, 2011
Bob, I agree that there have been multiple impacts in the desert, including from mining, development sprawl, and the ORV use you mention--all of which have fragmented the ecosystem so severely that any new footprint is magnified. This renders the calculation of percentages or square mileages irrelevant, in terms of ecological impact.
To respond to your question, I have spent a lot of time in the desert, starting in about 1986, and much of it has been in the flat creosote areas that many (especially if they drive past at high speed) would see as what you call "wasteland." I recently camped and hiked in the Ivanpah Valley, where the Bright Source solar facility is now under construction--delayed due to the discovery that the impacts to the desert tortoise population there have been underestimated. When I hiked across the area pre-construction, I found a truly astounding abundance of life, plant and animal.
I disagree that "no one is talking about pristine areas" for these developments. (Please note that in the commentary I didn't use the word pristine-a term I distrust- but "fragile," which I feel very comfortable with, considering the presence of cryptobiotic crust, and rare animal and plant species). I know the BLM is looking at fragile areas--this is evident now-- and it's prudent to assume undeveloped, even "pristine" areas will be up for grabs, as the agency has gone from an original proposal to open 676,000 acres of "conflict-free" land to 33 times that amount--the 21.5 million acres referred to in my commentary.
Finally, I know it makes sense to many, off the bat, that we confront climate change with the biggest stuff we have, and make some sacrifices--as in giving up desert "wasteland." But what if a faster, better, more effective, more democratic, far less environmentally damaging alternative existed--and we could employ both the nurturance of the existing ecosystem AND renewable energy working in our favor? This seems eminently sensible.
Tom Budlong
Tom Budlong
April 27, 2011
Bob Wallace asks how much of the desert has been messed by ORVs. But ORV mess is no reason to mess the desert more. And most projects are on pristine or near pristine desert. I toured the Genesis site. The ORVs have not been there. Palen is identical. Ivanpah has seen no ORV 'mess', perhaps because of the dense plant life that will now be scraped and mowed. Ivanpah proponents are now learning that the unique high-density tortoise population they were told was there is indeed there – two thirds of the project is now in suspension. Blythe is an exciting site, with a few non-destructive ORV tracks, pockets of delightful microphyll woodland, still-visible tank tracks from General Patton's war-time training, and most important, prehistoric intaglios that will be either destroyed or highly impacted due to their proximity to the project boundary. Intaglio destruction is an extreme insult to those who were here before us.
The fellow who created Desert Magazine in the 1930's, Randall Hederson, started off with an editorial describing two deserts. The first is unbearably hot, everything sticks, bites or stings, and is to be avoided. The second is full of wonder and mystery with hospitable weather most of the year, and is for those who take the time to tarry and understand. Nothing is more intriguing than a kit fox investigating your camp in the evening. We are destroying that second desert. We can be more clever. We can use our intelligence more respectfully.
Tom Budlong
Tom Budlong
April 27, 2011
Notice that the government must support almost the entire cost of big desert solar, through direct cash grants from the ARRA program and then by taking all the risk through government loan guarantees to finance the balance. Private money won't touch the risk, especially with the government's willingness. Essentially, the government has decided this is the way, and dangled no-risk profits. The hedge funds, whose sole purpose is to make money, gravitate to such risk-free profitable programs just as coyotes are attracted to eating rabbits. Two billion dollars per project is a lot. Stacked up and laid flat, two billion dollar bills would be some 150 miles long – two hours to drive past at current freeway speed. Imagine if that money were spent on subsidizing solar on rooftops as part of the mix of energy generation, instead of big desert solar. No desert destruction and industrialization, no long transmission lines using more desert and using more resources and money. Rooftop solar is not imagination. The LA Times regularly carries fliers in the Sunday paper from companies making a living installing it. If it were promoted as vigorously as desert big solar it would become a vibrant industry on its own, permanently employing more than the temporary construction jobs to build desert solar. The competition among suppliers could only be beneficial, as opposed to big solar's competition to get to the federal monetary incentives to large investors and construction companies. The slogan has changed from NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) to YIMBY (Yes In My Back Yard).
Tom Budlong
Tom Budlong
April 27, 2011
An analogy to these big desert solar projects is the blockbuster industrial projects Russia created when it started industrializing. The lure of BIG as a solution seems irresistible. I'm frustrated that we do not apply more cleverness than using up, spending, our heritage. One problem is that untouched deserts as a valuable resource are not understood by most in this country. Few live near them, and many who do have not taken the time. If you get to know these deserts you find wide vistas as attractive as many in Africa, and an immense almost pristine assemblage of plant and animal species far greater than most any other place in the country, species that have figured out how to live there. These species consider their environment normal, our preferred environment extreme. Our deserts are not wastelands to be converted to industrial because it's easier than other less damaging and less intrusive solutions.
Jochen Marwede
Jochen Marwede
April 27, 2011
Hi all,
some data from Germany:
- as of end 2009 5.5 GWp of a total of 9.9 GWp were from PV installations smaller than 1 MWp (source: Table 5, page 22 of this document http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/BNetzA/Sachgebiete/Energie/ErneuerbareEnergienGesetz/Statistikberichte/110318StatistikberichtEEG2009.pdf?__blob=publicationFile
- don't have a neat breakdown of the smaller than 1 MWp component, you can take a look at real 2010 data in the spreadsheets posted at http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/cln_1912/DE/Sachgebiete/ElektrizitaetGas/ErneuerbareEnergienGesetz/VerguetungssaetzePhotovoltaik_Basepage.html?nn=135464#doc149586bodyText3.
- I have eyeballed the Oct - Dec 2011 data and found 50% of cumulative capacity installed in this time was from installations smaller than 60 kWp.
- a 100+ kWp PV installation fully installed can be had at 2 Euro/Wp or 2.8 US$/Wp (DC). 10 kWp is 2.3 to 2.7 Euro/Wp (3.2 to 3.8 US$/Wp).
- Feed-in tariff is 28.74 Eurocent/kWh for smaller than 30 kWp and 21.57 Eurocent/kWh larger than 1 MWp.
- Costs and feed-in tariffs are set to decrease by 10% per year for many years to come on the basis of increasing mass production, automation and technology development.
- Next reduction of feed-in tariffs of up to 15% is scheduled for 1.7.2011.

Hope these numbers help understand the real state of the PV industry and give a glimpse of where it is heading in the short to medium term.

sunny greetings from Germany
J
Benjamin Peters
Benjamin Peters
April 27, 2011
I will have to respectfully disagree with most of the content of this article.

First off - the way your comments switch between discussing PV and CSP is reckless. They are two very different technologies and lumping them together is a bit self-serving and does not contribute to the conversation we should be having about the impacts on these lands.

Second - please cite a source for the cost of industrial solar at $4.78. Someone would make a ton of money on that deal (if it were indeed a fact).

I also enjoy the German stats that are paraded around continually - please quantify "mostly" and "about" when citing statistics...just check the wikipedia list of pv power stations.

What I think isnt being discussed is the concept of "Federal Land" - how much "Federal Land" is there in Germany?

I agree that projects should be done right, and in some cases the environmental concerns should prevent projects from moving forward.

I do not agree with Environmental Conservatives whose stall tactics to delay and deny projects are unproductive when confronting the issues of a new era.
Keiichiro Sakurai
Keiichiro Sakurai
April 27, 2011
Considering the "sequestration in some grassland and forest ecosystems", the article quoted to question the GHG reduction, cannot be used as a robust ground to deny the GHG reduction by big solar. The original article itself sites these words: ' "We don't want to say that these ecosystems will continue to gain carbon at this rate forever", Wohlfahrt says. The unexpected CO2 absorption may be due to a recent uptick in precipitation in many deserts that has fueled a visible surge in vegetation.'
It is true that some part of the world's deserts can gain CO2 for a while (and thus, if possible, rooftops can be better), but you cannot say, even for a limited time, that every deserts does better than big solar.

Moreover, by citing this article as a reason to stop the big solar, you're ignoring the difference in future risks -- if we don't reduce the use of fossil fuels instead, we'll CONTINUE to emit more polluting gases and GHGs into our dearest atmosphere, which will become larger than the LIMITED amount of GHGs sequested in deserts.

FYI: A review paper on this topic, also siting the article you've mentioned, is available.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.agrformet.2010.01.002
stop killin our wilderness
stop killin our wilderness
April 26, 2011
Absolutely right, Ms. Blaeloch. It is unforgivable how Big Enviros have taken the side of Big Energy against the planet and its beautiful fragile wild places when there is a much better, cleaner, faster and more affordable alternative! We trusted them to do the right thing and once again, they sold out so they could feel like big players on the national scene. It would be laughably embarrassing if it weren't so destructive!

Time for people to hear the truth. Decentralized, democratically owned solar power is the future. No dead wilderness, no wasted water, no billions of taxpayer dollars subsidizing Chevron and Goldman Sachs, no monopolies manipulating the pricing and supply of our energy, no line losses/failures, no SF6, just clean, efficient, affordable power, right where it is needed.

Keep up the great work!

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Janine Blaeloch

Janine Blaeloch

Janine is founder and director of the Western Lands Project, a Seattle non-profit that has worked since 1997 to prevent privatization of federal public land. She is also a co-founder of the coalition Solar Done Right, which seeks to move...
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