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Geographic Diversification of Wind Power Has No Bearing on its Variability

This alarming fact should serve as another reality check for wind power investors.

John Petersen, Contributor
April 13, 2011  |  47 Comments

Last Wednesday I stirred up a hornets nest with an article titled "A Reality Check for Wind Power Investors" (link at the bottom of this article) that included two graphs from the Bonneville Power Administration, or BPA, which manages a four state, 300,000 square mile service region that's home to over 40% of the installed hydro capacity and roughly 12% of the installed wind capacity in the US.

The first graph tracks the BPA's regional load and power production from hydro, thermal and wind facilities over the last seven days and shows why the region is one of the largest power exporters in the country.

Click to view larger version

The second graph provides stand-alone tracking data for wind power in the BPA region over the last seven days.

Click to view larger version

My concern was that the BPA graphs clearly contradict widely accepted notions that:

  • Wind turbines will generate on average 30% of their rated capacity;
  • The wind is always blowing somewhere and geographic dispersion will eliminate instabilities;
  • Periods of widespread low wind are infrequent; and
  • The probability of very low wind output coinciding with peak electricity demand is slight.

Until I saw the BPA graphs I assumed that wide geographic dispersion of facilities would ameliorate the erratic nature of wind power. The graphs proved my assumption wrong. Once it became clear that broad regional dispersal wasn't enough, I began looking for comparable data on a nationwide basis and couldn't find it – ANYWHERE. 

Yesterday, Jack Lifton pointed me in the direction of a March 2011 "Analysis of UK Wind Power Generation" that was commissioned by the John Muir Trust, Britain's premier wildlands conservation charity, and found that:

  1. Average output from wind in the UK was 27.18% of capacity in 2009, 21.14% in 2010, and 24.08% between November 2008 and December 2010 inclusive.
  2. There were 124 occasions from November 2008 through December 2010 when total generation from the windfarms metered by National Grid was less than 20 MW from an average capacity of over 1,600 MW.
  3. The average frequency and duration of a low wind event of 20 MW or less between November 2008 and December 2010 was once every 6.38 days for a period of 4.93 hours.
  4. At each of the four highest peak demands of 2010 wind output was low being respectively 4.72%, 5.51%, 2.59% and 2.51% of capacity at peak demand.

The study's most startling conclusions were that:

  • The nature of wind output has been obscured by reliance on “average output” figures. Analysis of hard data from National Grid shows that wind behaves in a quite different manner from that suggested by the study of average output ... or from wind speed records which in themselves are averaged.
  • It is clear from this analysis that wind cannot be relied upon to provide any significant level of generation at any defined time in the future. There is an urgent need to re-evaluate the implications of reliance on wind for any significant proportion of our energy requirement.

While the complete set of 28 monthly tracking graphs that accompany the UK Analysis are less colorful than the BPA's, the erratic and wholly unreliable character of the UK's wind resource is remarkably similar to the BPA's resource.

Click to view larger version

My undergraduate degree was in accounting and I understand statistics well enough to know that data from a single region does not disprove the theory that geographic dispersion of wind facilities will solve the intermittency problem. However, my accounting professors taught me that when two substantial samples from regions as diverse as the UK and the Pacific Northwest leave room for reasonable doubt, prudence requires a larger sample and a more granular analysis.

The idea of geographic dispersion is so inherently plausible that it's accepted without question. What if it's a lie? We know it doesn't hold water in the BPA region and we know it doesn't hold water in the UK. The raw data almost certainly exists. Compiling the hard data into a national landscape would require little more than an Excel spreadsheet, particularly if we assume away the need for a robust and flexible interstate transportation grid. The only reason I can imagine why nobody has published results from such a study is that the results are dreadful and they disprove the theory.

I would love to be proven wrong on this point because my preliminary conclusions are damned inconvenient. The time for platitudes and calm assurances from advocates and promoters is past. We need detailed analysis of hard day to day data if we ever hope to have a sensible energy policy that works in the real world.

In light of the clear data from the BPA and confirmation from comparable analysis in the UK, I continue to believe that investments like the First Trust ISE Global Wind Energy Index ETF (FAN), the PowerShares Global Wind Energy Portfolio ETF (PWND) and a host of publicly traded wind power stocks should be avoided like the plague.

Disclosure: None.

This article was originally published on AltEnergyStocks.com and was reprinted with permission.

Editor's Note: To read a rebuttal of this article, check out Tom Konrad's Why Geographic Diversification Smooths Wind Power.

Related Links

  • A Reality Check for Wind Power Investors

47 Comments

Register To Comment
stephen browning
stephen browning
April 26, 2011
The Production account hhr energy profiles are translated into individual Generation unit schedules at various stages. The operator monitors these schedules and uses them in the transmission modelling and Power matching software to ensure the system is operated correctly.

What we need to end up with is set of 'nested' simulations of plant commitment, schedules (on/off timing) dispatch and outturn, with all the relevant commercial, generation and customer dynamic constraints applied (ramping capability, minimum time on/off or for sets and for trade etc). The Transmission assessment suite has to be run in parallel at all stages and for multiple times (different generation mixes) to ensure security is maintained. The whole lot should show if there is a feasible solution with the proposed generation fleet, what it will cost and whether we are heading for 'disruption' or 'destruction'!! However, I'm not sure who will sponsor such investigation with our unbundled Electricity industry. A VIU has of course the responsibility for all areas from Generation through to the customer.

Without diagrams it is difficult to convey the impression of how 'tight' you have to run the generation-demand Power match to keep a major AC system stable which is unique to this industry. I have some documents available which attempt to show the principles and other ideas on Future Power Systems.
stephen browning
stephen browning
April 26, 2011
The big Continental Europe (former UCTE) interconnected AC system (Portugal and Spain through to Germany, East to Poland and South to Italy and the Balkans but excluding most of Denmark and its wind) has a max days peak demand @390GW, trough @250GW. I think they currently have @71GW of Wind installed ( http://www.ewea.org/index.php?id=1486 Page 4 and https://www.entsoe.eu/system-operations/regional-groups/ ).

GB ends up with wind output varying from a very large to a very small percentage of demand on an intraday basis. We are also go from having large amounts of synchronised conventional units connected (which provide inertial response) to a having a large proportion of asynchronous wind machines on the bars.

Power/Reactive matching and System robustness (fault levels, security, dynamic and transient stability) need to be modelled fully with variable generation at this level. What definitive overview studies cannot do is to determine if the Trading and Operational processes can 'cope' in real time with plant of variable output and variable predictability to give a stable result. The only way to do that is to mount 'real world' walk through simulation exercises.

For GB we start off with the buying and selling of half hour energy between party Production accounts (Generation unit Portfolios and Interconnection Imports) and party Consumption accounts (Supplier demand with embedded small generation portfolios and Interconnection Exports) on the wholesale market, both by long and short contracts. We need to move through time with changes in forecast outputs for the wind generation and how that will be dealt with by the traders in shorter timescales. We also have 'Smart' retail customer participation and more rapid and shorter term Interconnection trading to consider.
stephen browning
stephen browning
April 26, 2011
What we have underlying the Poyry reports (see comment 19 above) is comprehensive, partly derived, data for historic actual wind speeds at existing and proposed sites (onshore and offshore) in the areas studied. They have then carried out time period simulation studies (on single sets of definitive data) to try determine the impact of future plant combinations on the markets across time. I used to run similar large GB System-fuel annual models to determine predicted fuel burn and merit order prices for each power station.

What is somewhat worrying is that the EU and GB studies both show serious variations in total output from the big Wind fleets expected in 2035 (GB 35GW, the section of the EU studied @200GW). There are some very low predicted outputs and big spikes , even allowing for a wide distribution of locations. However, as noted by others, high GB wind is due to depressions crossing the Atlantic and can be more variable than in locations where it is thermal based.

As regards the Power data, the GB max winter weekdays have a Peak around 60GW and Trough @39GW. The Summer minimum is @25GW. We currently have just 5.2GW of wind generation. However, with all the proposed installations, I would expect variation between 5GW and 25GW, although Poyry's data seems to indicate an even bigger range. That indicates major swings in the output requirement for the remaining conventional generation from day to day with ramping at all different times.

Incidentally we only have 3.3GW of Pumped Storage at best 78% efficient and 2.2GW of that is short duration (max 5 hours on full tank). We also have 1.4GW of pure Hydro.

All in all I'm still convinced that major innovative storage is needed to keep our discrete AC system stable with this level of proposed wind.
Bon Ray
Bon Ray
April 23, 2011
GregorGiebel

> Funny that should come from you, after your comment 36.

I can assure you I did not intentionally misconstrue what you wrote. I responded to it directly - and refuted with evidence.

Wind energy is displacing fossils and nukes. There are multiple lines of evidence in this thread to show that. Nothing you have offered - and certainly nothing from mitch3 - refutes that evidence.

> Your comment that Spain and Scotland show otherwise is interesting...

I think you might be not have understood me. Spain and Scotland provide yet more evidence that wind displaces fossils and nukes and therefore has a capacity credit

* Spain Generated 3% of its Electricity from Solar in 2010. Despite the solar fallout, Spanish solar systems are delivering billions of kilowatt-hours to the country. Wind power is now bigger than hydro and coal in the country. http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2011/01/spain-generated-3-of-its-electricity-from-solar-in-2010?cmpid=rss

* Scotland's renewable electricity target for the next decade has been raised from 50 per cent to 80 per cent. http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2010/09/23134359

Again: I find real world results far more reliable that commentators on the internet who contradict that reality.
Gregor Giebel
Gregor Giebel
April 23, 2011
Blue Rock,

>I keep forgetting some people will always attempt to misconstrue what others write.
Funny that should come from you, after your comment 36. I'm talking about a well-defined capacity credit, and it is true (and in scientific circles undisputed) that a fully qualified capacity credit assessment shows that wind power has much less capacity credit than a coal fired power plant of the same rating.
Your comment that Spain and Scotland show otherwise is interesting - you probably have a link to show this.

That aside, your intervention that de facto there is a lot of wind and solar coming in, and quite some coal going out, is not incompatible, since you're talking about different issues. But on the causal connection I'm siding with mitch3 of comment 39 - there's a lot of old coal and nuclear going out of the market, and the opposition to new plants of those types is quite large.

BR Gregor
Bon Ray
Bon Ray
April 22, 2011
mitch3

> You're not listening, numerous new plants are being built, some in the process and more planned.

Now you're battling a strawman based on a quick comment I made that did not fully qualify the situation. I keep forgetting some people will always attempt to misconstrue what others write.

Of course some new coal / nuke plants are being built. That's obvious reality. The key issue that you are seemingly in denial of - despite the mountain of evidence - is that *more* renewables are being deployed globally than nukes.

* Renewable energy generation exceeds nuclear power. Global power generation by renewable energy sources outpaced that by nuclear energy for the first time in 2010 - EXCLUDING hydro. http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/85866.html + http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/nuclear/nuclear-energys-grim-future

> Do your home work.

Done it. You can tell that by the copious links I have supplied supporting my arguments.

You, on the other hand, just keep throwing out evidence-free nonsense (or nuke propaganda blogs) in your desperate campaign to deny the growing reality of renewable energy.

Here's some more to fire up your cognitive dissonance:

* European Commission report projects that 41% of all energy installations in the next 20 years will be wind. Another 23% will come from other renewables like solar, biomass and hydro. 17% of new capacity to come from gas, 12% from coal, 4% from nuclear and 3% from oil. http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2010/09/wind-and-solar-the-action-continues
Garth Barker
Garth Barker
April 22, 2011
You're not listening, numerous new plants are being built, some in the process and more planned. Do your home work.
Bon Ray
Bon Ray
April 22, 2011
mitch3

> European wind isn't replacing coal and nuclear, the facts are old plants are being decommissioned due to age, not shut down because of new wind.

lol. And why are new ones not being built? Because renewable energy has been deployed that makes new coal / nukes unnecessary.

It's not *that* hard to understand. ;)
Garth Barker
Garth Barker
April 22, 2011
BlueRock...
Like you said; "reality does not match claims on the internet."
European wind isn't replacing coal and nuclear, the facts are old plants are being decommissioned due to age, not shut down because of new wind. See: http://www.nuclearpower-europe.com/etc/medialib/nuclear-power_europe/documents.Par.46103.File.dat/Nuclear%20Europe.pdf.
In fact in some European nations new coal and nuclear are planned as is natural gas combined cycle. Some nations will not build nuclear however they are buying nuclear power from their neighbors. New pumped storage is planned as is better transmission to contend with capacity issues from variable renewable energy development.
Wind has its place, as does all other forms of clean energy and in view of Japans problems nuclear is going to have a hard time getting built; for example Italy refuses to build nuclear but they have no problem buying from their neighbors. BUT your slant that wind is replacing coal and nuclear is deceptive probably because you just didn't look deeper for the facts and reality.
Variable energy has a problem that won't be cured by just building more; better transmission and storage is its savior and that's reality.
Bon Ray
Bon Ray
April 22, 2011
plindsey:

uvdiv is an extremely dishonest nuclear propagandist and a raving wingnut libertarian. I wouldn't trust him to tell me the time of day.

He used to post on reddit as uvdiv_blog but admin banned him for some reason. The usual reason is manipulating votes with sockpuppets. That would be about his level.

I'm not going to waste my time clicking on his blog, but here's a credible report in preference for his spin of reality:

* Atlantic network of offshore wind stations could power Massachusetts to North Carolina. Simulation using 5 years of data from 11 meteorological stations shows that output of entire grid did not change more than 10% in any given hour and never dropped to zero during the entire five-year period. http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/04/wind-power-chain/
Paul Lindsey
Paul Lindsey
April 21, 2011
uvdiv at The Capacity Factor examined an analysis that said that wind farms along the US eastern seaboard would be "roughly constant". Uvdiv included the report author's own plots, which show that even along the east coast, wind power is not geographicallly diverse enough. http://uvdiv.blogspot.com/2010/10/how-to-spin-transmission-line.html
Bon Ray
Bon Ray
April 21, 2011
GregorGiebel

> The conclusion is, wind power does not replace a lot of capacity...

* EU Replaces Coal Power with Wind Energy. In 2009, Europe installed more wind power capacity than any other electricity-generating technology - and that new wind capacity replaced fossil energy. Europe actually decommissioned more coal, nuclear and gas plants than it built. http://cleantechnica.com/2010/11/26/cap-and-trade-works-eu-replaces-coal-power-with-wind-energy/

Spain and Scotland provide even better examples of wind providing capacity credit. So, once again reality does not match claims on the internet.
Gregor Giebel
Gregor Giebel
April 21, 2011
John, for exactly this case I wrote a paper (peer-reviewed, though the journal doesn't look like it) summarizing some 50 studies on wind integration and the so-called capacity credit of wind power. It includes a chapter on smoothing, with 12 (slightly older) studies just on the geographical dispersion aspects.
The conclusion is, wind power does not replace a lot of capacity, but the cross-correlation of wind power time series decays on a typical scale of 750 km. On a side note, the same decay length scale for wind power forecasts is about half, meaning that geographical dispersion helps even better to smooth out the forecast errors.

http://ejournal.windeng.net/3/
Bon Ray
Bon Ray
April 21, 2011
crtoca:

> The utilities and/or grid operators are responsible for building enough capacity into the system (natural gas peaker plants) to meet their load requirements. Wind energy, when the wind is blowing, replaces the "dirty" energy with "clean" energy.

Is there ever a time when all wind energy sources are not producing when spread across a wide geographical area?

Is there any energy source that is not intermittent and must have backup capacity in a modern grid?

Although your anecdotes are superficially persuasive, I find that reality is a more reliable guide for what is possible - especially physical deployment and multi-billion $$$ global investment. Talk on the internet is cheap.
Garth Barker
Garth Barker
April 21, 2011
Thank you crtoca,
one has oly to read PacifiCorps' wind integration plan then their 2011IRP to understand the costs associated with wind integration. Aside from the results which don't reveal the emissions AND cost of added capacity to integrate wind, they ignore the simple fact that storage would allow the wind integration to remain "clean" and reduce the overall cost for rate payers. Regardless of what terminology the AWEA applies to wind energy, reliability standards, grid parity, etc, are required if the system is to work. The cost of capacity alone drives up emissions and rate payer costs if accomplished thru the use of natural gas instead of storage. It's simple math, even if wind remains ignorant.
Charles Toca
Charles Toca
April 21, 2011
As an early proponent of the vanadium redox flow battery, I was tasked with attending meetings of the Utility Wind Integration Group (UWIG) 5 years ago. We thought bulk storage with wind would be a good thing, allowing wind to be dispatchable by utilities and as reliable as any thermal generator.

I was quickly taken to the schoolhouse by a representative of AWEA (American Wind Energy Association). He tried to explain the seemingly contradictory positions of AWEA that 1) No "back-up" for wind is necessary, but that 2) Wind is an "energy" resource, not a "capacity" resource. The utilities and/or grid operators are responsible for building enough capacity into the system (natural gas peaker plants) to meet their load requirements. Wind energy, when the wind is blowing, replaces the "dirty" energy with "clean" energy.

The theories of wind as a capacity resource at 30%, geographic dispersion reducing variability, wind forecasting, etc., came into play later as wind proponents tried to convice grid operators that wind variability can be easily and inexpensively integrated. However, regardless of how much they tweak the system to respond to the vagaries of wind, we still need something - storage or peakers - to respond when the wind isn't blowing.
Bon Ray
Bon Ray
April 21, 2011
mitch3

That's fascinating.

Wind is being deployed faster than any other energy source in multiple industrialised countries. The reasons for that are clear for anyone who is incapable of doing a little reading and thinking.

Is your meandering, simplistic opinion correct? Or is reality? It's not a trick question.
Garth Barker
Garth Barker
April 21, 2011
BlueRock...
Compare apples to apples;Outside the US nuclear is coupled with storage as is coal. As far as subsidies go coal doesn't need them but who turns down money. Nuclear doesn't need subsidies either; again why turn down free dollars. This has nothing to do with why wind does need subsidies; without them wind would be dead. Without the PTC wind could barely survive, if utilities didn't have to accept variable renewable energy, they wouldn't do so.
Because its far easier to install wind than license hydro, which is base power, and even those small RoR hydros on irrigation facilities have 60% of name plate, this is better than 27% that wind claims, wind has been offered a free ride but will soon have to face reality. Look at BPA's draft record of decision concerning environmental re-dispatch; wind gets curtailed when all other integration avenues are exhausted. The wind folks cried that curtailment would kill them and want legislation that the PTC's would continue even if the wind was blowing but they were curtailed due to congestion or no load. To correct this, large storage is the only answer or at the very least the cheapest and most sensible one.
Bon Ray
Bon Ray
April 21, 2011
mitch3

> If wind without storage is so good why the subsidies.

You don't appear to be reading what I write. Again:

"If *NUCLEAR* without storage is so good why the subsidies."

Same applies to fossils.

Your simplistic beliefs do not match reality. Which is flawed? Your beliefs or reality?
Garth Barker
Garth Barker
April 21, 2011
BlueRock..

Now look at how the UK employees their wind resources, pumped hydro.
If wind without storage is so good why the subsidies.
Without subsides, wind wouldn't be built, without RPS goals wind wouldn't get built.
Here's another statement you can argue, "when the US gets around to adding storage to the grid, we will see air quality improvements and better rates for customers, and wind can realize its true contribution potential".
Bon Ray
Bon Ray
April 21, 2011
mitch3

> I could send you the wind charts of two solid years that show wind is about 27% of name plate capacity

No one is disputing that wind (and solar) have 'low' capacity factors. That does not mean they are not viable. You do understand what capacity factor is and that it is not the only criteria that determines viability of an energy source?

> The time line also shows that MOST wind blows at the wrong time;

* Wind Power and the UK Resource. "Wind power greater in the winter and during the day; wind power delivers around two and a half times as much electricity during periods of high demand as during low periods of demand. ... Low wind speeds affecting 90% or more of the UK would occur in around one hour every five years during winter". http://www.eci.ox.ac.uk/publications/downloads/sinden05-dtiwindreport.pdf

So, you're completely wrong. Again.

> If wind had to follow the same guidelines as hydro and transmission and do it without subsidy wind would be dead.

Funny how wind is being deployed all over the planet at a rate that exceeds every other energy source in many industrialised countries.

Also, apply your logic to nuclear and not one nuke would ever be built again.

> If wind wants to become a viable resource they are going to have to couple with storage...

Repetition of the same ignorant nonsense does not improve it.

* Most comprehensive assessment on intermittency ever undertaken finds reports suggesting renewable energy is costly or limited by intermittency are out of step with majority of expert analysis. http://www.ukerc.ac.uk/support/tiki-index.php?page=0604INtermittencyrelease

Wind (and other renewable sources) are being deployed worldwide because they work and because they make economic sense. Either everyone involved in that is mistaken or you are. Occam's Razor.
Garth Barker
Garth Barker
April 21, 2011
BlueRock...
I could send you the wind charts of two solid years that show wind is about 27% of name plate capacity but it's easier for you to look it up. The time line also shows that MOST wind blows at the wrong time; there are exceptions in the northwest. That being said it's obvious you've never tried to license a project with the FERC, not only do you have to follow their guidelines you have to deal with the bureaucratic government agencies AND state agencies. Public health and safety have a role but the section 7 consultations plus ESA, CWA 404, 401 permits and the list goes on, are not only redundant in many cases they're unnecessary if a project is sited right. But the agencies are after mitigation dollars which can kill any project. If wind had to follow the same guidelines as hydro and transmission and do it without subsidy wind would be dead. If wind wants to become a viable resource they are going to have to couple with storage; regardless of what their lobby organization AWEA says. The alternative is to continue to try and balance wind with additional gas peakers which reduces the cleanliness of wind by 40% AND cost wind dollars for that integration service. Storage is a far cheaper alternative and wind needs to recognize that sooner rather than later.
Pat Gill
Pat Gill
April 21, 2011
It is amazing to my mind that some wind energy advocates are so married to subsidy that they cannot see the fact that wind and storage = grid parity on cost and dispatchability, particularly if pumped hydro is the large scale storage option.
I am part of a project in Ireland called Spirit Of Ireland, www.spiritofireland.org which will be able to balance not only Ireland's wind output but a large part of the UK's wind output.

And yet here too, a lot of wind operators would prefer to be subsidy animals.

Does this industry wish to mature or not
Bon Ray
Bon Ray
April 18, 2011
mitch3:

> Not assertions, just stating the collective results from a few reliable studies.

You provided no evidence. You just made an evidence-free assertion. As you are doing again now.

> The US needs to catch up on that front and relax the expensive and time consuming licensing process for storage.

Yes, everyone needs to relax those pesky safety and health regulations to allow the corporations to make money.

> ...without storage wind will never see its full potential.

Funny how people on the internet keep saying that but entire countries are deploying massive amounts of wind energy any way. ;)

* USA: at 35 Percent of New Capacity, Wind Moves From Alternative to Mainstream. AWEA's annual report shows that wind represents a third of the nation's new power and that the industry has had an average annual growth of 35 percent for five years. http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/is-wind-still-an-alternative-energy/
Garth Barker
Garth Barker
April 18, 2011
BlueRock...

"Just repeating assertions without a shred of evidence and in contradiction of credible evidence provided is not very persuasive."

Not assertions, just stating the collective results from a few reliable studies. When using the UK for sake of argument remember the hugh amount of storage they already have and are building more. The US needs to catch up on that front and relax the expensive and time consuming licensing process for storage. The simple fact that when electricity is produced it has to be used at the same time - unless it is stored in some manner; without storage wind will never see its full potential.
Gerry Wootton
Gerry Wootton
April 18, 2011
I don't think you can call geographic diversification a canard. If there were no geographic diversification, weather would be the same everywhere at all times. That's clearly not true. We know that weather systems are characterized by air circulation (i.e. wind) and that weather systems cross the continent at a more rapid rate than they evolve. The issue, is that the total energy in all weather systems combined at a given time may be lower than at others. There is certainly some seasonality in this and perhaps some shorter scale fluctuations. Keep in mind the physical scale - weather systems are typically very large with the average distance between fronts being about 1200 miles. This seems a large distance but if you can haul electricity from coal fired plants in Utah to customers in Ohio or from hydroelectric projects in northern Manitoba to customers in eastern Ontario, this can't be much of an issue.

On the other hand, site specificity should be considered. There are some locations where the terrain creates local patterns where wind is equally driven by local factors making it somewhat less dependent on weather. Within the concept of geographic diversity, this is a secondary factor that can optimize the resource and reduce variability, at least down to a diurnal cycle or half-diurnal cycles. Currently, siting of wind power is often dictated by availability of transmission capacity rather than best geographic choice.

Unfortunately, there is insufficient data to even say how much variability there is or how much geographic diversity can help. And, there's no place in the world where the geographical span is sufficiently large or the site selection optimized for geographic diversity so there are no practical examples that can be used as examples. Also, operating data reveals more about the complexity of dispatching and PPAs than the underlying resource. In the above example they ramped thermal power while curtailing wind and water - surely for good reasons.
ANONYMOUS
April 15, 2011
Now those are some Inconvenient Truths! And there are more and more of them piling up in official statistics with every passing day because the operators are finally being forced to cough up some real data.

The traditional grid operators must be getting fed up because they seem to be the only ones producing real numbers.

Another day, another myth revealed to be totally without foundation: the "geographic diversity" canard is nothing more than another example of wind industry propaganda fueled by wishful thinking.
Gerry Wootton
Gerry Wootton
April 15, 2011
Kevin: The NREL study shows a bit of the problem: there isn't enough rich data to really get a good picture. It's a good first crack and it produces some plausible data that can be used to work a plausible scenario for grid integration. But it's just about that. It really does little analysis on weather system movements. The study itself is based on real time data from 10 stations for Eastern US at a height of 80 meters integrated for 1 hour. In several cases, the sample for a particular terrain is just 1 (with several cases not represented). Sample size 1 doesn't make for great statistics. Since measurements are at a single height, the vertical windspeed gradient must be estimated rather than known even though this plays into the efficiency of a wind mill. Also, it's not clear whether air density was factored in. It's more clear that elevation, due to the sparseness of the samples may have created some difficulties (but we can't check because the identity of the sample locations is a secret). Two sites in particular showed some interesting anomalies. And while the samples represent a fairly broad geographic spread there's just not enough data to determine any directional trending or local specicifity. The study does some musing about boundary layer interactions but not much more. We know that contour, relative wind direction, surface texture, surface albedo, etc. all have effects. Since most fixed weather stations that publish data record wind speed at a lower elevation, it's a guess as to how to fit this to the NREL data.

http://www.nrel.gov/wind/integrationdatasets/pdfs/eastern/2010/aws_truewind_final_report.pdf

Also interesting: the assumption is the US will de divided into 3 independent parts (no supergrid).
stephen browning
stephen browning
April 15, 2011
HI there - two points.

If you are really considering diversity right across the lower 48 with large power transfers enabled to make the concept work, that is going to require one hell of a lot of 'heavy metal' and some really slick trading processes between systems...

The GB (and EU) position has been more accurately studied by the Poyry group, using wind data for existing and proposed locations (most of the big stuff will be offshore). The Muir report ratios up the existing data which is predominantly onshore sites.

There is a Linkedin Dicussion thread with links to the Poyry papers via
http://lnkd.in/5bxN5w
I believe the group is open so you dont have to be a Linkedin member to see this. As well as the paper cited at the start of the thread, Stephen Woodhose has a comment lower down with links to their other reports. There are also some pretty heated debates on operational impact.

Le me know if the link doesent work and I'll try something else.
Bon Ray
Bon Ray
April 15, 2011
mitch3

> I'm all for wind however to make the grid work in a secure reliable manner it needs storage at all levels.

Just repeating assertions without a shred of evidence and in contradiction of credible evidence provided is not very persuasive.

* Most comprehensive assessment on intermittency ever undertaken finds reports suggesting renewable energy is costly or limited by intermittency are out of step with majority of expert analysis. http://www.ukerc.ac.uk/support/tiki-index.php?page=0604INtermittencyrelease

* Can we rely on intermittent wind energy? The criticism that extra spinning reserve is neccesary to take into account the intermittent nature of wind is not valid. Spinning reserve will always be needed to cater for unexpected unavailability of the largest single power source, and not just to cater for the currently low levels of electricity generated from the wind. http://www.bwea.com/energy/rely.html

* "...if interconnected wind is used on a large scale, a third or more of its energy can be used for reliable electric power and the remaining intermittent portion can be used for transportation (i.e., to power batteries or to produce hydrogen), allowing wind to solve energy, climate, and air pollution problems simultaneously." http://www.stanford.edu/group/efmh/winds/aj07_jamc.pdf

* etc.
Thomas Gearing
Thomas Gearing
April 15, 2011
Mitch-
' due to the wind, is asking for rate increases to build more gas' - guess again! Due to INCREASED DEMAND, they will ask for a rate increase to build more of whatever source. What if they build a new coal plant? 'more natural gas peakers' for wind, so you admit that they already do build these plants for coal. If you are building more overall capacity, then of course you will build new peakers. The question is how many new peakers for new coal versus how many new peakers for new wind.
Since adding a million extra kWh of production per year with wind cost less than for coal, we can spend the savings on a few 'extra' extra peakers, and have a much cleaner mix. For the same cost.

PS - just saw you statements on storage and I agree completely with bringing storage online.
Garth Barker
Garth Barker
April 15, 2011
KevinEber...

read into NREL's study on 33% integration, the bottom line is... for this to work an expansive IT system AND total compliance from ALL generation sources is needed. Meaning if over generation is happening the regulator will shut down generation, the system requires that complete control is given to the regulator. The market approach to integration is gone and extensive buildup of transmission is needed. The simple approach is to use storage, then no one gets curtailed.
Kevin Eber
Kevin Eber
April 15, 2011
The National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) has published two studies that looked at potential large-scale wind integration over large parts of the eastern and western United States. Both studies used three years of real weather data, parsed at 10-minute intervals, to determine the output from posited wind plants, with the aim of evaluating how well large-scale wind power could be integrated into the grid.

Both studies found significant benefits to geographic diversification in terms of leveling out the power output from wind plants. As other commenters have noted, this is on a much larger scale than the Pacific Northwest or the U.K. See the studies at:
http://www.nrel.gov/wind/systemsintegration/
Garth Barker
Garth Barker
April 15, 2011
Blue Rock..
I'm all for wind however to make the grid work in a secure reliable manner it needs storage at all levels. Not just because of wind but to defer transmission congestion, time shift variable generation, follow load and act as load when wind and other variable generation OR unused base energy is being wasted. If we want to address emissions, storage coupled with variable energy, removes the need to balance and firm with gas. Wind has been afraid of storage due to the uncertainty of cost, wind also needs the support of ITC and PTC to stay in business; storage can change that. Even coal is being cut back at night when the wind blows BUT they're not shutting down the furnaces just the water. Again storage can tap into that unused energy and it does make coal about 3% cleaner. Following with gas not only increases the emissions during that time but- when not following but offering spinning capacity in idle mode they're still putting out unwanted emissions. Common sense says make wind dispatch-able, reduce the need for combustion generation, reduce line loss, defer additional transmission development and create a more secure grid. Again wind folks should seek storage developers and work together, it would mean an increase in dollars for all concerned EXCEPT gas.Fossil fuel based utilities are fighting the development of storage; it cuts into their asset base and removes the need for rate increases. When large storage is added to the grid in the near future the energy industry will not be as we know it now.When storage is added to local utilities for frequency control, demand response etc, the distribution grid will not be the same either. When storage is added to neighborhood dispersed generation systems home grown energy systems will become a plus rather than a thorn in the side for regulators. Over come denial and work together.
Bon Ray
Bon Ray
April 15, 2011
mitch3:

> It seems that proponents of wind are always in denial; the variable-ness of wind does cause integration issues.

It depends what you mean by the vague assertion of 'issues'.

* 'None of the studies reviewed in our assessment suggest that intermittency is a major obstacle to the integration of renewable sources of electricity supply. At the levels of penetration foreseeable in the next 20 years, it is neither necessary nor appropriate to allocate dedicated 'back up' or reserve plant to individual renewable generators when these are integrated into modern electricity networks.' http://www.ukerc.ac.uk/support/tiki-index.php?page=Intermittency

Given the *reality* of continuing rapid deployment of wind all over the planet, it seems that it is actually the anti-wind gang who are in constant denial.
chris eddy
chris eddy
April 15, 2011
"Geographic Diversification of Wind Power Has No Bearing on its Variability"

I'm sorry, but this is absurd on its face. Of course geographic diversification has SOME bearing on variability. Whether this bearing is enough to make wind meaningfully more reliable is an open question. A question which cannot be answered by studying two areas (BPA, UK) that offer almost no geographic diversification.
Garth Barker
Garth Barker
April 15, 2011
It seems that proponents of wind are always in denial; the variable-ness of wind does cause integration issues. If that wasn't true why would so many utilities be installing more natural gas peakers to balance the wind? PacifiCorp just finished their Wind Integration Report and due to the wind, is asking for rate increases to build more gas so the can accommodate the wind. (They also put a integration cost on this.) If wind developers don't start contacting storage developers and get together curtailment is going to become very common and we know wind doesn't get it's PTC if its not generating. Coupling with pumped storage brings the value of wind up from approx. 30% to near 60%. The projected wind development in the west needs storage to become a dispatch able product.
Thomas Gearing
Thomas Gearing
April 15, 2011
3522 * 0.3 = 1056.6 an as an accountant you should have gotten this number, too.
Yet you state the second graph clearly contradicts the 30% capacity factor. (first of 4 'contradictions' you claim).
That is so blatantly false, even the average 12 year old can see the average is above 1056.6. Is there sarcasm in my reply? Yes.
Is it an insult to all your readers for you to lie big-time? Yes. So we're even.
Gerry Wootton
Gerry Wootton
April 15, 2011
I think its already been said but, take a look at any BBC weather report: weather systems span very large areas, typically something like half the width of the continent. Geographic diversity implies a distribution of at least half that.

One flaw in looking at utility production stats is that this does not represent the resource directly but only the result of dispatching. In general, 100% consumption of capacity doesn't ever happen as any regulating mechanism needs headroom to operate properly. It would be interesting to investigate what happened on April 7 when hydro power was maxed even though demand dipped below normal - how much of this was lack of wind and how much was curtailment?
Bon Ray
Bon Ray
April 15, 2011
'Geographic Diversification of Wind Power Has No Bearing on its Variability'

The title might be accurate if it were:

'Geographic Diversification of Wind Power Has No Bearing on its Variability (over the geographic region I have considered)'

It requires no complex technical analysis to understand that two wind turbines on the same hill will stop turning at the same time when the wind drops.

Two wind turbines that are 100 km apart are very rarely, if ever, going to stop at the same time.

* Wind Power and the UK Resource. 'Wind power greater in the winter and during the day; wind power delivers around two and a half times as much electricity during periods of high demand as during low periods of demand. ... Low wind speeds affecting 90% or more of the UK would occur in around one hour every five years during winter'. http://www.eci.ox.ac.uk/publications/downloads/sinden05-dtiwindreport.pdf

> ...I continue to believe that ... publicly traded wind power stocks should be avoided like the plague.

It's funny how many people on the internet make similar claims, while the people with the money are investing heavily and deploying wind at a phenomenal rate.
a b
a b
April 15, 2011
john Petersen is correct to say that geographic diversification has no bearing on it's variability. As he illustrates, the wind can die for 5 hours stretches at any time in his illustrated area. That is why a 46 million people arid country like Spain has BIG pumped up hydro storage facilities to cover those short periods when the wind isn't blowing. By the way, Spain's wind turbine power is now the single biggest electricity generator in their power gen mix. Spain derives MORE than 40 % of it's electricity from RE, of which 21% is wind turbines, and this in a country the size of California, and with a bigger population than California. The Iberic electric geography region consisting of Portugal and Spain is pretty much insulated from the rest of Europe, given the few transmission grid lines going through the Pyrénées mountain range to France and the rest of Europe.

http://www.ree.es/ingles/sala_prensa/web/notas_detalle.aspx?id_nota=180


In a recent company address, Iberdrola Chairman Ignacio Galán outlined the company's plans for 2011. He said that in Spain, the company will continue to work on major projects, such as the extension to the 2000 MW hydroelectric plant at La Muela near Valencia, making it the continent's largest pumped-storage complex. Galán also talked of major hydro development in Portugal with construction of the Upper Támega complex, with a capacity in excess of 1000 MW.

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2011/01/roundup-of-hydro-activity-in-europe?cmpid=WNL-Friday-January28-2011
Nigel Morris
Nigel Morris
April 15, 2011
If you look at the relative size of the UK compared to the USA, or North America, but more importantly to the size of major weather systems that pass over the UK, you will see that the UK is relatively small. It is entirely feasible for one weather system to sit over the entire UK and Ireland, either a high or low wind system. So we know that UK wind can be so variable without much diversification benefit. But nobody has seriously said the UK is large enough to get enough diversification to overcome major adverse wind systems settling over it for a few days.

To gain from geographic diversification you need to diversify over an area larger than one weather system size. Nobody has ever said that diversifying from Rhode Island to Massachusetts will get you much benefit, but diversifying from Texas to Washington State will give you benefits because they are likely to have different weather systems operating on them at any one time. The basic pretence of this article i.e. that people who have been talking about wind diversification giving benefits have meant areas smaller than an average weather system, is wrong.

But to get the benefits of diversification will require a much stronger transmission backbone to take wind from Texas to Washington when it's blowing (or shining) in Texas and still and cloudy in Washington.

The other major diversification issue is diversification of generation type.

Having an electricity system entirely reliant on wind is stupid, and no-one is advocating that.

Having a system reliant on wind, PV, CSP, tidal, wave, biomass, landfill gas, Muni Solid Waste, geothermal, OTEC, hydro, Gas CCGT, fuel cells, nuclear (maybe), pumped hydro, CAES, flow batteries, EVs and each of them widely sourced from all 51 States, delivered through a rugged backbone and a really smart grid: is a really sensible and sustainable idea and most people interested in renewables are advocating a complex, reliable, resilient energy supply like that.
ANONYMOUS
April 14, 2011
Hold on a second. Your basic premise about the diversity of wind generation in BPA's balancing authority is incorrect. The fact is, the Pacific Northwest does not have geographic diversity of installed wind generating capacity. BPA has a little over 3000 MW of wind generation in its balancing authority and almost all of it is located along the Columbia and Lower Snake River region. It is well known in the Pacific Northwest that there is currently very little geographic diversity of the wind fleet in BPA's balancing authority.
Dennis Houghton
Dennis Houghton
April 14, 2011
BPA will soon announce that wind turbines will be shut down rather than integrating the output during certain high riverwater flow periods. NW wind operators are sure to be upset at losing millions of dollars. Not really about geographic diversification but problems with total developed capacity.
Anumakonda Jagadeesh
Anumakonda Jagadeesh
April 14, 2011
Excellent report. Must be very useful to Wind Business investors,researchers in Wind and Wind policy makers.

Dr.A.Jagadeesh Nellore(AP),India
Matt Segraves
Matt Segraves
April 13, 2011
http://www.midwestmarket.org/page/Total+Wind+Generation

I look at this link infrequently, but I've never seen a trough much below 3000 MWh. M-ISO has a larger footprint than BPA or the UK. It would be nice to see longer time periods. Anyways, thought I'd share.
Tam Hunt
Tam Hunt
April 13, 2011
John, two key points:

1) See this IEA report on the variability of wind power and the benefits of geographic dispersion, demonstrating that in some areas at least it is indeed helpful for smoothing the grid:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBgQFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Finlportal.inl.gov%2Fportal%2Fserver.pt%2Fdocument%2F71135%2Ftab_8%2C_variability_of_wind_power_and_other_renewables_pdf&rct=j&q=iea%20variability%20of%20wind%20power&ei=J_ClTbXNGO-z0QH3k6n8CA&usg=AFQjCNGZcQIj12uyqYAJqf9-ioVyOyDRsA&sig2=jQV0AVi7ZViNwGOvVNFZYA&cad=rja

P. 21 shows the impacts of geographic dispersion for wind in Denmark. However, I am intrigued by your data for BPA and the UK and I agree that much more research should be done on this before it becomes established dogma.

For a good study re solar geographic dispersion, see:

http://eetd.lbl.gov/ea/ems/reports/lbnl-3884e.pdf

2) More importantly, your suggestions re investments (or lack thereof) in wind power ETFs is misplaced and represents a very shallow level of research. Wind power in no way depends on geographic dispersion for its integration and most grids around the world have far too little wind and other variable renewables on them now to worry about integration as a significant issue yet. California, for example, has about 2-3% wind power on its grid and studies have found that far more wind could be accommodated without major reliability concerns.

In fact, studies of this issue have already been done in many jurisdictions, summarized in Lawrence Berkeley Labs' recent 2010 wind market report:

http://eetd.lbl.gov/ea/ems/reports/lbnl-3716e.pdf

And here's the Powerpoint (see p. 55):

http://eetd.lbl.gov/ea/ems/reports/lbnl-3716e-ppt.pdf

The bottomline is that these studies have found as a general rule that wind can reach up to 20% penetration with an integration cost of only about 10% on top of the cost of energy. This is highly manageable and is not a threat to wind power expansion at all.

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John Petersen

John Petersen

John works as a partner in the firm of Fefer Petersen & Co (www.ipo-law.com) and represents North American, European and Asian clients, principally in the energy and alternative energy sectors. His international practice is limited to corporate...
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