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Obama's Nuclear Madness and the Future of "Clean"

Ron Pernick
March 18, 2010  |  33 Comments

In early February, President Obama did something that his predecessor George W. Bush was unable to do: he pushed the restart button on the U.S. nuclear power industry. Obama announced the first loan guarantee to the nuclear industry in nearly three decades – a conditional guarantee of $8.2 billion for two proposed nuclear power plants in Georgia. In this single move, he may have jump-started the nuclear power industry in the U.S.

Or not.

The loans come with some strings attached — and Southern Company, the company behind the Georgia plants, may not accept those terms. Loans aside, the U.S. nuclear industry has a long history of cost overruns, production delays, and the inability to solve its most vexing problem: the issue of nuclear waste and containment. Until these issues are resolved, all the government money in the world may not be able to overcome public opposition and financial common sense.

So the question I’d like to ask the president is: why nuclear — and why now?

If it’s a question of reducing carbon emissions, creating jobs, and ensuring U.S. energy and economic security, there are far better options. The DOE has reported on how the U.S. could get 20 percent of its electricity from the wind by 2030. Clean Edge, along with Green America, has outlined a pathway for America to get 10 percent of its electricity from solar by 2025. And a number of studies have shown that renewables and energy efficiency are far more effective at reducing carbon emissions than nuclear power.

Indeed, if you pair solar and wind up with other baseload-power-providing renewables such as geothermal and biomass; efficiency measures (green buildings, retrofits, and the like); limited natural gas in high-growth areas; and a smart grid — then there’s no need to expand nuclear or coal. Just last month, for example, the Northwest Power and Conservation Council unveiled its 6th Power Plan for the Pacific Northwest. This well-respected and influential group, which shapes the power direction of Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and Montana, outlined how the entire region could meet its increased energy demand primarily through conservation and efficiency measures.

The current proposed crop of nuclear power just doesn’t make financial sense, either.  That’s why Wall Street has taken a big pass on nuclear power for more than three decades. Without the government insuring nuclear power plants (no private insurer will touch them) — and the feds backing them with taxpayer guarantees — they just wouldn’t get built. Sure, solar and wind require subsidies as well — but not wholly-run government insurance and financing programs.

Obama’s 2011 budget, for example, increases the Department of Energy loan guarantee authority for nuclear projects by $36 billion, to a total of $54.5 billion. Renewables’ potential share pales in comparison. The budget provides around one tenth of that amount for solar, wind, and other renewables — with just $3 to $5 billion of loan guarantees for energy efficiency and renewable energy projects. To the budget’s credit, it also includes a 30 percent tax credit for qualified investments in new, expanded, or re-equipped advanced energy manufacturing projects, allocating $5 billion to provide this tax credit to energy manufacturing projects. But if all of the nuclear money is allocated, admittedly a big if, it would leave solar, wind, and energy efficiency far behind.

Nuclear power now costs around $6-$8 billion per installed gigawatt to construct — and 3-7 years to complete a power plant. Wind power, on the other hand, can be deployed far more rapidly (usually in a year or so) for far less money (around $1.5-$2 billion per gigawatt installed). And even solar is now getting competitive, with prices dropping nearly 50 percent in 2009 and with some systems being installed in the $3 billion per gigawatt price range.

Add in vexing nuclear containment and security issues (nuclear energy technology is basically a precursor to nuclear bombs), uranium mining pollution, and the fact that after decades of operation the nuclear power industry has still not figured out what to do with its radioactive waste — it makes one wonder why the U.S. would want to reenter this game.

In a recent Facebook post, Energy Secretary Steven Chu makes the case that we need more nuclear power because solar and wind, as variable resources, can only provide up to 20-30 percent of our electricity supply without major advances in energy storage. But with all due respect to Dr. Chu, even if solar and wind tap out at 30 percent without advances in storage — that’s still a significant number (equal to more than what we currently get from nuclear power). And if we are going to spend tens of billions of dollars on nuclear power simply because of its baseload qualities — why not take that money and invest it in the next generation of energy storage (large scale and distributed) and smart grid deployment instead? I’d happily place a bet on which investment would make the U.S. more secure and competitive.

Looking at all the evidence above, it’s pretty clear that there’s nothing clean about the current crop of nuclear technology. So, let’s not muddy the waters. Until we see a new generation of nuclear power — one that is modular, scalable and finally addresses radioactive waste and containment issues — let’s be honest about its considerable shortcomings. I understand that nuclear power will continue to play a role in the U.S. for some time to come — we live in a diverse energy world — but trying to revive nuclear power under the banner of “clean” is simple and utter madness.

Ron Pernick is cofounder and managing director of Clean Edge Inc. and coauthor of The Clean Tech Revolution.

33 Comments

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ANONYMOUS
July 7, 2010
This is not how engineers of good conscience work with each other and so I repeat our letter below ...... YOU HAD NO IDEA EVEN WHEN WE FIRST MET AND FIRST INTRODUCED THIS TO YOU:


--- OPEN LETTER TO ALL ON THIS FORUM AND EPC AND OPERATING COMPANIES.

Dear Nagan,

We shared our OTEC - Ocean Thermal Energy design and concept ideas (many), including calculations under FULL UNDERSTANDING OF TOTAL CONFIDENTIALITY ---- with witnesses and corroboration.

You were crying that Sevan Marine has "stolen" your ideas about the Round FPSO -------- NOW, this makes me doubt your story absolutely!

You should not be touting (OURS AND ITS DERIVATIVE IDEAS - MUCH DISCUSSED) as your "invention" !!!

- our Patent Application is already on record and all these Companies that you are visiting and touting this system to - what will happen when they find out as a few already have?

I EVEN TOOK YOU TO AND INTRODUCED YOU TO OUR WOOD GROUP CEO AND COMPANY TO HELP YOU (just to help you) WITH YOUR ROUND AND SEMISUBMERSIBLE OFFSHORE Structure, when your prospects at Sakhalin, Shtokman, Shell, etc. got "Delayed"

This is an ABSOLUTELY BAD Karma and NO GOOD will EVER come of it! A Vishvasghat - even God's are displeased by such Kapat - and will NOT answer any of your prayers!

You would do better to discuss everything with us connected to our entire scope discussed with you, instead of circumventing us at our own ideas!!! We have much of these in the hands of DOE and others going back SOME (!) Years - a plethora of it!

You know who we are so I will sign of only as W & K

W & K.
Fred Linn
Fred Linn
April 1, 2010
Steven--------" In the near term coal and nuclear are the only technologies that can meet extant generation needs and most reasonable people would assess the risks from coal generation as greater than those from nuclear"------

-----"Opposing nuclear power is a de facto choice for coal."----

Natural gas is already in widespread use for applications that require extremely low emissions. Millions of people use it to cook with, unvented, indoors.

Power generation from natural gas is already higher from natural gas than from nuclear power.
------" The drop in nuclear generation was the largest absolute fuel-specific decline from December 2008 to December 2009 as it fell 2,490 thousand megawatthours or 3.4 percent."-------
------" Generation from natural gas-fired plants was 11.2 percent higher than it was in December 2008 and was the largest absolute fuel-specific increase in December, rising 7,206 thousand megawatthours. Jumps in gas-fired generation in Texas, Florida, and Alabama accounted for 60.6 percent of the national increase."----------
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/epm_sum.html

Natural gas extremely low in environmental damage. I have no problem with natural gas wells in the Gulf of Mexico, or elsewhere. However, petroleum spills can have extremely damaging effects of marine life. I would be in favor of offshore drilling for natural gas, but opposed to drilling for petroleum.
Aaron Moline
Aaron Moline
March 30, 2010
True, nuclear power does have its advantages and disadvantages. Wind, solar, even traditional fossil fuels: all have their strengths and limitations. We in the energy sphere are coming to a crossroad where we are trying to pick a winner in the "new energy race". Truth be told, this is not the right approach. The ultimate winner of the energy race will be ALL these technologies. There is no single energy source in which we can rely on and thus we must do what is necessary to develop and invest in these different areas. Ultimately, our nation's energy security comes from a diverse energy portfolio that embraces all these realms of energy.
Want to learn more about balanced energy for America? Visit www.consumerenergyalliance.org to get involved, discover CEA's mission and sign up for our informative newsletter.
ANONYMOUS
March 22, 2010
In comment #29 "164854" writes: "If nuclear is a viable industry that we should trust to get our energy, why can't they get insurance?"

Insurers like to insure against events where they can be reasonably certain that premiums will exceed payouts when averaged over their entire customer base. A nuclear disaster does not fall into this category because while the risks are very low the potential payout in the worst case would be enormous. If coal power plants had to have insurance covering any possible damage from global warming they would not be able to get it from any private companies either-it is just a quirk that they don't need coverage for the types of disasters they might cause. In the near term coal and nuclear are the only technologies that can meet extant generation needs and most reasonable people would assess the risks from coal generation as greater than those from nuclear. We don't live in a utopian world where renewables can meet all of our present needs so we are stuck deciding between unpleasant options. Opposing nuclear power is a de facto choice for coal.
Steven
Jon Goin
Jon Goin
March 22, 2010
When it comes to nuclear, the most important thing to me is something the author points out - "no private insurer will touch them". If nuclear is a viable industry that we should trust to get our energy, why can't they get insurance?
Russ Finley
Russ Finley
March 21, 2010
Our government is corrupt and inept I'll grant you that but a renewable grid is going to need a lot of help to become technically viable. Nuclear is the only zero carbon technology on the table that can patch it together.

A lot of major environmental leaders have changed their minds:

George Monbiot, Steward Brand, James Lovelock, and Steve Kirsch
Kim Hanna
Kim Hanna
March 20, 2010
you should have seen the entire USA Congress jump to their feet, clapping & stomping, whistling & cheering when Obama announced the nuclear deal.
I've NEVER seen such a pathetic display of nuclear industry lapdogs salivating over the dollars they'll bleed from the American public.
What a discraceful display of our corrupt government.
Russ Finley
Russ Finley
March 20, 2010
Reframing Nuclear Power as an Ally of Renewable Energy:

http://biodiversivist.blogspot.com/2010/02/reframing-nuclear-power-as-ally-of.html

Maybe it's time to stop parroting the dog-eared mantras from the seventies.
William Fitch
William Fitch
March 20, 2010
Hi All:

They probably eliminated the .... oh my god, is the text appearing super slow.... have to check this out... be back....

.....Bill
John OBrien
John OBrien
March 19, 2010
A nuclear reactor is the dumbest way man ever invented to boil water.
Nice half life for future generations to deal with. Why doesn't he spend invest in Plasma Conversion technology which would create energy from municipal solid waste and water treatment sludge and eliminate the need for land fills and the long term environmental and juridical hazards they pose?
ANONYMOUS
March 19, 2010
I work in renewable and energy efficiency industry.
There have been some considerations left out that the discussion should address. I don't have all the info, so I can just suggest them.
economics - If we take the big picture, the US govern has lavished orders of magnitude more support for nuke and fossil, than for renewable. Some of the discussions above mentioned price - anderson support for the nuke industry, loan guarantees, etc. The support also includes tax breaks for fossil extraction, development of the fuel enrichment process for nuke fuel, much larger research funding, to name a few. Then there are the obvious externalities nukes and fossil don't pay for - air pollution, water pollution, knocking mountain tops into streams. I forgot the number, but I seem to recall studies indicate air pollution kills in excess of a thousand people per year, asthmatics.... I have to think any serious leveling of the playing field would make fossil and nuke far more expensive.
Capital cost is obviously important. But, lest we forget, renewables have no fuel cost, and are inherently simpler. So O&M favors renewables
Another factor, renewables and energy efficiency can improve much faster than fossil or coal. For new nukes, figure a few years to design, site, build and evaluate a new generation. We are looking at 10 years to see if it works. Successive generations of fossil plants use to chortle at bumping mid 30% efficiency by a fraction of a percent. Renewables are on track to cut their costs dramatically, probably in half in less time than that. They will be much cheaper than nukes in 10 years. Ditto improved coal.
Third distributed energy, a la rooftops, and such, has many benefits for the system - var support, power quality improvement, islanding.
The one big advantage is the amount of money fossil and coal can allocate to lobbying. Massey was just in the news for giving 3 million to help elect a pro coal judge in W Virginia (I think).
Jason Marks
Jason Marks
March 19, 2010
1) The new generation of U.S. nukes is coming in EXPENSIVE. Ignore estimates from think-tanks and universities and look at actual project budgets. The cost of power from two new plants to be built in Florida could be in the 13 to 15 cent/kwh range. I.e., about the same as solar thermal.

2) We could probably meet most load growth and retirements with efficiency, renewables, and natural gas back up at less cost and risk than investing in nuclear, but current thinking is that our challenge is a lot bigger than that: I am hearing experts talk about the need to completely decarbonize the electric sector by 2050 to achieve the economy-wide goal of 80% reduction in GHGs. Experts we can't do it w/o nuclear, which I suppose is the reason we are seeing support for nukes from folks like Chu and Obama. Personally, I'm relieved that the South and the Midwestern states are volunteering to be on the bleeding edge of nuclear, giving the West a chance to see how it works out for them.
Douglas Prince
Douglas Prince
March 19, 2010
Anybody consider the thorium factor?
Warren Reynolds
Warren Reynolds
March 19, 2010
Bruce #7 is correct !
As an ex-nuclear engineer, I know nuclear power's "dirty little secrets". The 1980's witnessed a virtual worldwide collapse of orders for new nuclear power plants. The previous 10 years (1970-1980) has been marked by frequent technical mishaps, serious accidents, huge cost escalations, and a rapid decline in public acceptance of nuclear power. Since 1978, over 18 European nations have abandoned the use of nuclear energy. Austria (1978), Sweden(1981), and Italy(1987) voted to oppose or phase out nuclear energy while Ireland prevented nuclear program there. Poland stopped the construction of a nuclear plant. Belgium, Netherlands and Spain decided not to build new plants and intend to phase out nuclear power. Germany has agreed to shut down all nuclear power plants by 2020. Switzerland has a moratorium on construction of nuclear power plants for 10 years.
What do they know that we don't?
Electricity planners are now favoring faster and cheaper renewable energy over committments to massive centrilzed nuclear power stations.
The reeason for the collapse of nuclear power include: safety problems, inability dispose of nuclear waste, stratospheric plutonium contamination and the potential proliferation of nuclear materials in the hands of terrorists. In the late '80s and early 90s, Chernobyl, 3-Mile Island, Monju reactor, Russia's Ural Mtn. vast nuclear contaminations and the high cancer rate in children downwind of the Chernobyl incident have all led to the DEATH KNELL of the nuclear industry. A more fundamental failure is the cost per kWh. The nuclear power's sale of electricity is $0.15 per kWh (EEC). In addition, it is too costly to build since the cost of a 500 MW nuclear power plant has risen from $1.1 billion in 1987 to over $8.5 billion today with a 9 year permitting construction schedule.
Recently, The Government loan guarantee of $8.1 bill is a waste of money.
Nuclear power is no longer an option.
BUCK SHAW
BUCK SHAW
March 19, 2010
Why so many anonymous comments? Why so many people with Beards? What do the French do with there spent rods? For a bunch of Greenies you all sound like Negative Nag Nag Nag! You scream and yell for more energy but your the reason there isn't more. No wire in my back yard. Not here. Not there. I really don't care ether way. I really don't understand you people
John Finazzo
John Finazzo
March 19, 2010
Nuclear Energy has been around for more than 50 years and there is still No long- term solution in sight for disposal of nuclear waste.Currently many nuclear plants are
storing three times as much as their temporary storage pools were originally designed to hold.
While nuclear reactors are fortified against terrorist attacks the storage pools containing radioactive waste are not.
After running uranium through the reactor of a nuclear energy plant two of the materials left in the irradiated mass or "spent fuel" are U235(uranium)and plutonium,
which can be used for bomb building.
This "spent fuel" has disappeared from a number of sites around the world including at least one instance in the United States.
Nuclear Reactors have a limited life,which is approxiamately 30 years.There has been only one dismantlement of a commercial reactor in the U.S. that I am aware of and that was Shippingport in the late 1980's.Briefly, Shippingports 770-ton reactor vessel,encased in concrete,was lifted by crane to a wheeled transport,which drove it to a barge,which in turn traveled 8100 miles down the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers, to the Gulf of Mexico,along the Panama Canal,up the Pacific coast to Washington state,then inland on the Columbia River to the government's Hanford radioactive waste dump in Washington state,where it will remain radioactive for the coming thousand centuries.More than 100 trucks loaded with Shippingports radioactive rubble,even the tools and clothing the workers used,also made a cross-country voyage to the Hanford site for special disposal.
Shippingport a relatively small reactor at 72 megawatts,could be transported in one piece.There are approxiamately 500 nuclear reactors wordwide,many of which are much larger than Shippingport.Many of these 500 reactors are at or appraoching there dismantlement,what will be done with them?
A must read for all is Jacques Cousteau's last book "The Human The Orchid and The Octopus"
Ed Milner
Ed Milner
March 19, 2010
Relating this article to the "Water-Energy Nexus" podcast, don't nuclear plants use lots of water for cooling? And wasn't Georgia having a drought until recently? I was stunned when I heard Obama had decided to re-start nuclear energy. Don't other more dispersed, redundant sources of power require less capital? What will we do with the waste, and what will that cost?
ANONYMOUS
March 19, 2010
Phil writes in comment #10: "So, nuke plants will save some CO2 emmissions and add considerably to the overall global warming more directly by sequestered heat release. This is unnatural added heat. Lots of it. In addition to the other risks mentioned."

This argument is deeply flawed. Direct production of heat from ALL sources of electricity generation is negligible compared to the effect of altering the percentage of solar radiation that is absorbed by the atmosphere. Of the many many things worthy of worry heat released from reactors affecting the planetary temperature is just not anywhere on the list (one might worry about local temperature changes in rivers or other sources of cooling water but that is a separate issue).
Steven
Dominic Jermano
Dominic Jermano
March 19, 2010
I am a man of limited words...

Consider the catastrophe in nuclear...USA...

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/states/georgia/history.php
ANONYMOUS
March 19, 2010
Regarding the remarks of Bruce in comment #7:
I agree that the Canadian nuclear program has not been a model of efficiency; indeed, it has a long record of cost overruns. China is now constructing Westinghouse designed nuclear power plants at close to $1 Billion/GWe demonstrating that costs need not necessarily be as high as the Canadian example. US costs will be higher than those in China, and the first few new plants will likely be more expensive that later installations, but $6-8 Billion seems high--certainly higher than the nuclear industry estimates. Even if we accept these estimates it would be a skewed comparison to compare the costs of various plants without accounting for the capacity factors--which the author did not do.

As for the Jacobson and Delucchi article in Scientific American, there is doubtless a reason why these outlandish claims only appear in non-refereed sources rather than legitimate journals. 100% renewables by 2030 is a pipe dream, which is why responsible people at the DOE are willing to support one more generation of nuclear reactors.
Steven
Stuart Bloom
Stuart Bloom
March 19, 2010
You mentioned early about cost over runs, and waste. Both are the fault of the "left-of-center" crowd. Outrageous lawsuits, whose only intent was to gum up the works, by causing delays, re-designs, and re-builds. The intentional gumming-up-the-works with the Yucca Mt. waste repository was the last way to make nuclear operations artificially costly. Sure, Yucca Mt. isn't perfect, but its better than keeping the waste on-sight at each plant.

Do you folks really think the US, France, Russia, Japen, etc haven't learned a thing or 2 about safer nuclear power plant design since the last US plant was designed in the 70's? France continues to obtain around 80% of their electricity from nuclear.

Don't get me wrong, I"m a firm believer in renewables. That's the main reason I visit this site. I'm a power electrical engineer. In my professional opinion, we should explore ALL electrical generation options. I also happen to be a former US Navy nuclear power engineer. I have first hand experience with how good power plant design can result in safe reliable operations for 30+ years.

Lets look at all the options. I applaud the president for at least considering nuclear as an option.

S. Bloom
Los Alamos, NM
nagan srinivasan
nagan srinivasan
March 19, 2010
A new Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion (OTEC) developed by Deepwater Structures Inc. (DSI) is a game changer in the world of energy. The new OTEC uses most of the deepwater technologies well developed and practiced in the modern oil and gas field. Significant capital investment cost saving by almost 10 times is achieved with the result of the merger of two different fields. The new platform technology would effectively do the climate change, business, infrastructure and the environment of the global world. Renewable energy technologies are in general not cost effective. Wind, wave, current, tide, geothermal, solar etc are either not 100% reliable or not cost effective to invest. Their role in climate change, business, infrastructure and environment are limited. DSI OTEC is the only energy technology that would impact climate change, business, infrastructure and environment on the future earth. It would effectively reduce the global warming and control CO2 emission. DSI uses deep water oil and gas technologies to make the 1881 French Scientist dream into reality. DSI-OTEC could effectively change global energy business within the next decade. The new platform technology will remove the enormous heat from the upper ocean surface and take it to the deeper ocean surface and efficiently reduce the global warming. The electricity is produced at free of cost. The electricity could be used to produce hydrogen through electrolysis of potable water, produced another by product of the same OTEC power plant. We have collaboration with companies that would offer their technology in the area of hydrogen production, high pressure on-board storage, transportation and supply to compressed hydrogen fueling stations. Further byproduct of new platform energy technology will be on hydrogen fuel cell technology after power production establishments. See you in OTC2010 at Houston, Texas. USA.
Phil Manke
Phil Manke
March 19, 2010
So, nuke plants will save some CO2 emmissions and add considerably to the overall global warming more directly by sequestered heat release. This is unnatural added heat. Lots of it. In addition to the other risks mentioned.
Yes, all heat, beat, and treat manufacturing will add some CO2 to the atmosphere, but with wind and solar, it ends or severely drops at that, and for many years.

Still no leverage for distributed solar thermal, huh? If we can collect and store our own heat for living, cleaning, and processing with direct solar heating absorbers why would we need to build say, oh, I'm guessing maybe half of the fueling and electric infrastructure to provide this energy by the conventional and backward means. The solar spectrum has much more heat than electric capability, and we can get it easily for ourselves without buying it from a utility.
Is it that we would rather buy our energy than get it for free from the sun? If we, as a society are that pampared and insistant, then we simply are not ready to advance. Other nations will assume leadership roles in energy and global stewardship, while the USA and its banking monolith will become the rotting old money, protectionist dark agers, fearing new ventures and paradigms for better life.
Any species that hopes to survive must, absolutely must, leave its environment better off for life support of its generation or it will weaken and die. 3.8 or so billion years of evolution have proven this without exception.
Paradigm pioneering isn't scary at all, in fact it pays dividends, is very peaceful, and even patriotic if we don't consider the federal reserve as the government. Pioneers made this country and they can save it.
Or, ho hum, choose your drug.
Dennis Houghton
Dennis Houghton
March 19, 2010
"The situation is already so bad that in some areas, like Pacific NW, Utilities are paying consumers as much as $1,000 to convert residential water heaters from electric to gas"

Gas can be stored, electricity can not. Great idea. Wise use. Improves system reliability. Easier to integrate solar and wind electric sources. Typical forward looking, Lopez Island solution.
They could burn the gas in their 120 MW plant to produce electricity to heat water or they could encourage point of use gas water heating in a politically willing community with an existing gas delivery system. It works only under a specific set of circumstances, typical of island communities.

Raising prices to reduce demand almost always works, too. It just annoys everybody.
ANONYMOUS
March 19, 2010
The idea that nuclear electrical power plants can significantly reduce CO2 emissions needs to be challenged more. Nuclear plant only generate electricity and in the USA nuclear supplies about 20% of total electricity supply and 8.5% of total primary energy consumption (which includes all fuels to provide energy).

Reducing CO2 emissions will be achieved by not burning fossil fuels and through good land management. The idea that more nuclear power plant will significantly reduce CO2 emissions is a bit of a misconception, especially as a main objective of business is to grow whereas to reduce CO2 emissions some industry sectors will need to shrink.
ANONYMOUS
March 19, 2010
One major concern driving the decision to add nuclear power is the projected demand growth for electric power going forward to 2020, 2030-2050; demand is far from stable (Ref: "Annual Energy Outlook" published by DOE, available on-line). Wind and Solar only represent a small fraction of total demand going forward; future demand for electric energy is not flat, growth in the next 20 years will be major! Electric vehicles will add significant load to the National Grid, but other more common uses are, and will continue to grow demand. Growth in the use of electronic devices; PC's Cell Phones, PDA's, even toasters with constant power drain indicator lights, these all create demand. The situation is already so bad that in some areas, like Pacific NW, Utilities are paying consumers as much as $1,000 to convert residential water heaters from electric to gas; they are effectively trying to "shed" excess demand by converting to their competition! Wind and Solar can help make-up the shortfall, but they are far from sufficient to meet the future requirements of our power hungry culture.
Bruce Michael
Bruce Michael
March 19, 2010
Regarding comment 1, the $6-8 Billion estimate per GW is actually not high at all. Last year, Ontario got their bid for two 1.2 GW nuclear plants. Instead of the expected $16 Billion, it came in at $26 Billion! That's $10.8 Billion per GW, or $10,800 per KW - much higher than costs for true clean, and renewable, energy. The author did not "skew" his arguments at all.

I'd also like to point out the misconception that nuclear is on par with other renewables for reducing CO2. When factoring in mining, transportation, construction, decommissioning and disposal, nuclear really produces about 2/3 as much CO2 as a natural gas plant and around 10 times as much as wind and solar (source: Sovacol, Energy Policy 36, 2008).

Regarding wind, solar, and other renewables' potential, the DOE estimates are conservative. Did you read the November, 2009 Scientific American article? The researchers show how renewables could provide 100% of our energy needs by 2030.
Dennis Houghton
Dennis Houghton
March 19, 2010
During WWII and the Cold War, we Americans were very ignorant in the handling of nuclear materials. The first reactor was under the bleachers at a college football stadium. The second or "B" reactor was built on the Columbia River at Hanford. Several reactors were built along the river for plutonium production. They produced no electricity only Plutonium and other isotopes and mountains of waste materials from wipe down rags to diesel locomotives, all contaminated to varying degrees. Nuclear weapon sites were and still are a dangerous mess but the danger is not related to nuclear power directly but to scientifically ignorant material handling practices and the expedient of war. Ground water contamination under the 540 sq. mile Hanford has moved to the Columbia river. None of that contamination comes from the nuclear power plant on site. Almost all comes from buried trash dump sites or leaking underground fluid storage tanks from the early years of plutonium production.

Nuclear is certainly not N0-Carbon. At any given time there are about 400 vehicles in the parking lot of our local nuclear power plant. The plant is >25 miles from the nearest residential area. 25,000-35,000 vehicle miles per day to operate this plant. Of course, if the plant operators actually cared about carbon they could easily provide a worker transportation system, which would cut that carbon footprint.
ANONYMOUS
March 19, 2010
I find the debate on whether Nuclear Energy is clean to be an interesting one. The reality is that no energy is completely clean and fossil fuel is used to generate the energy that fuels the factories that make the solar panels, the wind turbines, the nuts and bolts to put the equipment together,and fuel the vehicles that bring the equipment to the sites. Therefore it has a carbron footprint before it generates the first kw of clean energy.

As a resident of Georgia I think there is one other factor that no one has mentioned. Our Govenor is not a promoter of clean energy and outside of the coastal areas GA is not a good wind State and solar would not be reliable as we get back to back days of cloudy, rainy weather. We already have Nuclear plants and my understanding is that the money is to make improvements and expansions to existing plans and for a new plant.

I say bring it on. I drive thru the area close to the Savannah River Plant all the time and it's surrounded by cattle and horse ranches and I haven't seen any 3 horned cows.
ANONYMOUS
March 19, 2010
It is unfortunate that the new style of this site deleted the numbering of comments. Regarding the comments in comment #3, the decision to expand nuclear power is clearly an attempt to address atmospheric CO2 levels and a strong argument can be made that properly isolated nuclear waste--as nasty as it is--is less dangerous than altering the composition of the atmosphere. Optimists hope for 20% wind and 10% solar electricity generation in the future, but that leaves 70% for which few convenient technologies exist.

As for storing the waste in my home town, sure bring it on by. But I also want the low prices of nuclear generated electricity and the funds for a state-of-the-art repository. We can then put the coal plants near this commenters home town where he can enjoy the mercury, soot, and other misfortunes his choices engender.
Steven
ANONYMOUS
March 19, 2010
It's extremely obvious why Obama played the nuclear card: he needs the republican votes to pass his health care reform act. It's politics, man. Simple as that.
Steven forgot to mention the 80,000 TONS of spent fuel rods being stored at each nuke site. I suggest we move them to Steven's town. OK with that, Steven?
ANONYMOUS
March 18, 2010
The author writes: "And if we are going to spend tens of billions of dollars on nuclear power simply because of its baseload qualities — why not take that money and invest it in the next generation of energy storage (large scale and distributed) and smart grid deployment instead"

It should be understood that federal loan guarantees are very different than expenditures. Absent some regulatory fiasco the plants are extremely likely to be built and the cost to the government for the loan guarantees would then be virtually nothing. We should ALSO be investing in R&D for storage and upgrading the grid, but these will involve actual expenditures. Loan guarantees to the nuclear industry are a very cheap way to support non-CO2 generation that will largely compete with coal rather than renewables. Anyone worried about the potential for global warming would be in favor of them. In the near term renewables simply cannot meet all the demand for new production capacity and continuing to rely on coal--which would be a direct consequence of the policies Pernick supports--is foolish.
Steven
ANONYMOUS
March 18, 2010
The author states: "Nuclear power now costs around $6-$8 billion per installed gigawatt to construct — and 3-7 years to complete a power plant. Wind power, on the other hand, can be deployed far more rapidly (usually in a year or so) for far less money (around $1.5-$2 billion per gigawatt installed). And even solar is now getting competitive, with prices dropping nearly 50 percent in 2009 and with some systems being installed in the $3 billion per gigawatt price range."

However, his estimates for new nuclear power are at the top of available estimates (with some suggesting costs as little as ~$2 Billion/GWe). Furthermore, he neglects to factor in the low capacity factors of wind (~35% for new construction in the US) and solar (where mean solar insolation is ~25% of the value used in rating the cells). Doubtless he is aware of the capacity factor issue and chose to skew his arguments anyway. As a general observation, people tend to twist the truth only when they are on the losing side of an argument....
Steven

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Ron Pernick

Ron Pernick

Ron Pernick, co-founder and principal of Clean Edge and co-author of The Clean Tech Revolution, is an accomplished market research, publishing, and business development entrepreneur with two decades of high-tech experience. At Clean Edge...
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