Developing Renewables with War-Time Urgency

War is right, for the wake of reclamation destruction is proof of the battle after math!

Congress should authorized the President to use the Navy to shut off China's oil if they do not agree to cut GHG emissions, or course, tariffs should be tried before that, and negotiations before that. While everyone is focused on renewable energy, I think someone should take a serious look at giving electricity generated from waste heat the same finanancial incentives as wind. This is carbon free electricity and you do not have to build transmission lines.

If the costs were for a war against another country or society that was seen as a threat to our peace and superiority the aspect of how to afford it would be off the table, as recent history demonstrates. As importance of renewable energy needs is seen as urgent, the efforts to finance them will move with serious motivations. The recent energy stimulus bill is the frontal position that will be absorbed primarily by the players in the energy markets that are actually the main causes of the need for change. They will insist on being paid off before they will change, because their main purpose is profits and not a fair and sustainable environment. This cynical view must be overcome by the general public before any massive move into the sustainable markets develops. The right wingers are now showing their colors as the obstructionist bureaucrats they are, favoring established business practices over new policy. Perhaps concieving the needed energy source modifications as 'a war' will help to give it the urgency it deserves in their view. Egos will always try to implement every solution that will not work before allowing the obvious one to take place. This choice of mind-set is the crucial choice that must be made over all. If we, as a people, squable over scraps of "stuff and power" rather than doing what is right, instead of "right wing", nothing will change untill the majority of its substance is destroyed. The voters of this country have this choice to make now. Petition your represestatives relentlesly. Demand that they represent what is truly right and good for our earth, not the corporate earth. They must be made aware that there is no safe haven in a destructible world being destroyed by their greed and lust for whatever.

The war was actually initiated long ago by corporate USA on our earth environment. A very subtle and protracted war that relentlessly extracted profits without regard from the earth substance and its people while obscuring the identity and purpose of the warriors in ever increasing escalations as easy targets of profiteering were squandered.
Subversion of spiritual guidance was not beyond their perverse and stolen domain, as well as institutions of higher learning.
So our move into sustainable practices is a defensive maneuver, necessitated by the lack of ability of corporations and the government to maintain checks and controls on themselves. They stop at nothing, making as marketing tools the perversion of the very truth that enabled them to be in the first place. Ever seeking to make thei brand of "business" a necessary economic distraction, they have made insanity a normal ocupation of an ever corrupting society.
So, it is a war. Not one that the sustainable responders started, but one they had to wake up to, to deter the relentless greed of the insane practices maintained by the ilk of "wall street" and corporate USA. It seems apropriate time to identify it as such, so that the lines can be identifyed and drawn, and so that those who are ready to see may choose sides.

Energy Research

Research should be our industry,
And not thought to be a luxury,
For our future is at stake
In the progress that we make,
It's more energy that all of us should see.

Activities needs energy each day,
Energy is essential for our way,
Stimulus for the rich and welfare for the poor,
Funding for research is knocking at our door,
Our dollars should go there without delay.

No stable funding now is written,
Our leaders seem to have been smitten,
With an adverse attitude,
For fund solicitude,
They should remove the monetary mitten.

adrianakau2aol.com

Hi:

Might want to take it easy on the "China" thing. They have the biggest base of installed SDHW in the world by far and produce all the evacuated tube collectors as well. When it comes to SDHW, we trail them severely. Our solar record is pathetic and our over all RE record is not much better. We consume the most energy of any country. So, be careful of the stones you throw. They might come back at hit you as the deserving target.

.....Bill

Hello,

I think it is very important that we get renewable energy options up and running. The faster the better. If there is a plan that will create jobs and create clean energy, then more power to you!

Phil,

Not sure why you have something against Corporate America. If any government puts out money with nothing in return, the short name for that is welfare! Which, is paid for by tax payers. And when tax payers cannot foot the bill, somebody else has to. Oh by the way, just in case you have not heard, China has over 1 Trillion in cash reserves, and the last time I read, after Our famous elected leader of the free world just had just put us in 1 trillion dollars in debt. And, to add more insult to this, china is our biggest buyer of our debt!

If you feel we can just print more money, well, that will come back to bite us real bad.

I'm curious of what you call wall street greed? If a company has 25% gross profits, is that greed? I'm getting ready to open a pizza joint. Am I to assume when I sell fountain soda at $1, and it only cost me about .15 cents, is this greed, or trying to make it in the corporate world?

My 401k plan does better when corporate america is doing better. Just another hint, Social Security is not doing so great right now. Our elected leaders dip in to that money to pay for services we cannot afford.

Now with National healthcare in sight, I guess I might have to raise that price of the soda to $2 to cover the cost of the help or pay a severe fine.

I'm am for renewable energy and want to see it suceed without assistance from the government, but we are far from that point.

At the end of the day, all of our services we get and expect from the government is paid for by tax payers, whom work for corporate america, mom and pop shops.

Becareful of where you throw your stones at, it might come back and hit you!

Phil Manke----you should watch this video.

http://www.storyofstuff.com/


Paul Farley----------"Not sure why you have something against Corporate America. If any government puts out money with nothing in return, the short name for that is welfare!"---------

Do you mean like giving over a trillion dollars to banks and car makers?

It sure looks to me like we are getting nothing in return.

Phil, you hit the nail on the head. The stimulus is going to the companies causing the damage to our economy. My solution is simple; take 50% of the profits from big oil to pay back the taxpayer. Mandate ethanol and spread the wealth to the small business and farmer. This is a country by the people and for the people and not for corporate greed. To me, corporate greed is the result of damage to the economy. It is amazing how our Congress is so well paid off by corporations. Obama knows the truth but it's difficult if not impossible to set precedents b4 the greedy few in business and government. Mandate clean energy, using excessive profits, period.

--------"I'm curious of what you call wall street greed? If a company has 25% gross profits, is that greed? I'm getting ready to open a pizza joint. Am I to assume when I sell fountain soda at $1, and it only cost me about .15 cents, is this greed, or trying to make it in the corporate world?"--------

Paul----making a profit is OK. Making a profit at the expense of exploiting other people is not OK.

-------"If you feel we can just print more money, well, that will come back to bite us real bad."------------

This is how Coporations(not America) are doing it. Money is an illussion. Money is not real. Money is only the medium of exchange. You are in effect saying "I have so many inches"----inches of nothing. Our currency has no backing. The only real wealth is commodities. This is how coporations are robbing you. They are using government to acquire monopoly rights to resources with imaginary value, and using government and media control to create an illussion of giving something of value. It is all about control. Control over you. Control over where you get your for $.15 to sell for $1. Control over the people who buy the sodas from you for $1. Why on earth do you think you can buy soda syrup for $.15 ? If they thought that they could charge you $150 and get away with it---they would---in a second.

Of the 100 largest economies in the world---51 are multinational coporations. Governments are in business to serve multinational coporations---not people. And under your reasoning(profits first)---people are only a resource to be exploited and discarded.

http://finance.yahoo.com/insurance/article/107364/chevron-expects-to-fight-ecuador-lawsuit-in-us.html

http://finance.yahoo.com/insurance/article/107364/chevron-expects-to-fight-ecuador-lawsuit-in-us.html

(cont.)

(cont.)

from the second article----------" "We're not paying and we're going to fight this for years if not decades into the future," Chevron spokesman Don Campbell said in an interview."-------------------------

So, there you have a statement of coporate moral and ethical values regarding people and the environment in the words of a coporate spokesman. No mention of any concern for people, the environment or even right or wrong anywhere. The only issue so far as Chevron is concerned is protecting and maximixing profits.

------"To prevent enforcement of a potential judgment in the U.S., Chevron will likely need to convince a U.S. judge it didn't get a fair trial in Ecuador -- something legal experts say won't be easy. "It's going to have to be pretty conclusive evidence," said Ralph Steinhardt, a law professor at George Washington University.

Complicating the matter for Chevron, after the plaintiffs originally sued Texaco in the U.S., Texaco convinced a U.S. court that the case should be heard in Ecuador, praising Ecuador's judicial system in court filings."--------

Pretty much the same strategy used by Exxon Mobil to have damages awarded in US courts set aside after 20 years of legal manuevering after the wreck of the Exxon Valdez.

Governments and people only exist to serve the purposes of coporate profits.

Stephen Lacey, you are a hero by US standards. But I still don't like the way you and your guests pull punches against this corrupt, special-interest driven country. John Geesman only hinted at the US not developing renewable energy with war-time urgency, the problems with Cap N Trade and the need for feed-in tariffs. You are right that other countries, like China and those in the EU, are making renewable energy a top priority especially as they use feed-in tariffs to give all suppliers of most renewable energies a fair price. But the US has joined the effort mostly to exploit the industry (like they are also doing in health care). The US is a bankrupt nation with entrenched industries, like utility monopolies, that block real change. The US has required utility monopolies to use renewable energy through portfolio standards, which is a conflict of interest since they favor fossil and nuclear fuels. The nation has even allowed the utilities to select which sources will be used, with help from lobbying from environmental groups. In addition, utilities have been allowed to favor their own company, affiliates and friends during internally-rigged competitive bidding. The utility monopolies have chosen 97% utility-scale windpower, that is unreliable because it is intermittent, and also a little solar. In addition, transmission will be very expensive from the Midwest to the coasts. After Obama gets his short-term windpower stimulus (like Clinton's .com and Bush's housing bubble), the renewable energy industry will fail, the country will be even more bankrupt and the utilities will be able to go back to using fossil and nuclear fuels. In comparison, the EU is giving renewable energy a real chance to succeed by also using local hydropower, geothermal and biomass sources, which are lower-cost and reliable base-load. Moreover, Obama is using Cap N Trade to raise money for his other useless government programs, like health care, when he should be using carbon taxes.

-------"Congress should authorized the President to use the Navy to shut off China's oil if they do not agree to cut GHG emissions,.........."----------

Abengoa, is building 6 of the largest ethanol plants in the world in China. To make ethanol from bamboo.
They may be finished and operational by now.

Ethanol production may already be up and running. Ethanol supplies must be plentiful. China as been exporting ethanol since 2006.

China has also been building cars designed to run on hydrous ethanol. Straight from the still---no blending. Plans were for building 1.8 million units last year, and 2.6 million units this year. That is 4.4 million vehicles in 2 years.

It would appear that the US is the only one of the two that remains chained to petroleum as its only source of energy.

China may well have the last laugh after all.

Fred Linn says "Abengoa, is building 6 of the largest ethanol plants in the world in China. To make ethanol from bamboo......China has also been building cars designed to run on hydrous ethanol. Straight from the still---no blending. Plans were for building 1.8 million units last year, and 2.6 million units this year. That is 4.4 million vehicles in 2 years."


How about providing a link? The only claim I found was from Fred Linn. Moreover, Abengoa says they won't build their first cellulose ethanol plant, and a small plant at that, until 2011.

I watched "The Story of Stuff". Good one! Tho the stats she uses are undocumented it rings true on the face of it.
In my comments I might have better used "Et. Al. in a few places after "US Corp's.", tho many large US corporations have outsourced dirty manufacturing to other countries with lax laws on environment and cheaper labor.
It seems some have chosen sides in the war. The early warriors against the environment have been at it longer, and many in their ranks are only just beginning to be seen. Be ever prepared to change sides as you are found in need of answers to the destruction of our biosphere. The earth has flourished in 3.8 billion years of species evolutionary adaptations that we have severly threatened in a little over one hundred years time. My own ignorance is a part of it. My advice is to look deep within and see what you really want for yourself and your children. Can you save enuff to insure a safe life if there is no earth to live on?

-------"China
Cellulosic ethanol production currently exists at "pilot" and "commercial demonstration" scale, including a plant in China engineered by SunOpta Inc. and owned and operated by China Resources Alcohol Corporation that is currently producing cellulosic ethanol from corn stover (stalks and leaves) on a continuous, 24-hour per day basis.[11]"----------

------"Spain
Abengoa continues to invest heavily in the necessary technology for bringing cellulosic ethanol to market. Utilizing process and pre-treatment technology from SunOpta Inc., Abengoa is building a 5 million gallon cellulosic ethanol facility in Spain and have recently entered into a strategic research and development agreement with Dyadic International, Inc. (AMEX: DIL), to create new and better enzyme mixtures which may be used to improve both the efficiencies and cost structure of producing cellulosic ethanol.[11]"--------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulosic_ethanol_commercialization

Information on Chinese efforts and capabilities is still very strictly controled by the communist central government. The communist government appearantly thinks that holding its cards close to the chest and playing dumb are in their own best interest at the moment. They appearantly find it advantageous to provide the illussion that they are dependent on us and/or international coporate investment and holding out the carrot on a stick of huge profit possiblities to entice foreign investment.

The claim about the cellulosic ethanol plants came from a company news release about three years ago about an export agreement signed with China. The article has since been removed for more current news. However, there has been sufficient time that the plants are either completed and operational now, or very nearly so.
Abengoa is currently completing construction of cellulosic ethanol plant in conjunction with a grain plant in Hugoton KS.

Abengoa, which owns about 20% of all US ethanol production capacity(might be a higher percentage now---they acquired new assetts in the recent economic turmoil)------has been producing cellulosic ethanol in Europe for about 4 years.

China has been exporting ethanol since 2006.


http://blogs.automotive.com/6227303/miscellaneous/chinese-look-to-hydrous-ethanol-as-alternative-fuel/index.html

http://en.ce.cn/Industries/Auto/200801/02/t20080102_14089481.shtml

The article showing the photos and specifications of the introductory models has been taken down. That was also the article that I got the production goals from. Google has an agreement with the Chinese government to allow them to block websites of their choosing(government). I don't know if websites are blocked across the board--or just in China. Either way, we are still dealing with managed news.

My surmise of this information is that China is moving at flack speed to produce and implement ethanol fuel use ASAP.

You may make whatever conclussion you wish.

My feeling is that China has been conned by the West to waste money on cellulosic ethanol, which has no signs of being cost-competitive. They also have been conned to use windpower, which Denmark has shown is essentially worthless because generation is not reliable.

---------"My feeling is that China has been conned by the West to waste money on cellulosic ethanol, which has no signs of being cost-competitive."------

Ethanol was produced commercially in both the US and Germany as far back as the 1890s from logging and millwork waste wood using the Scholler process. The fist Model T introduced by Henry Ford in 1908 was designed to run on ethanol.

Look at some pictures of WW2 jeeps, trucks, tanks and aircraft. The tires and all the other rubber parts on those vehicles were made from wood. The US built a plant in Wiisconsin that produced ethanol from wood logging waste. This was the feedstock used to produce butadiene, artificial rubber. Without this critically important raw material, none of the massive war armaments from ships, planes, tanks or even parachutes would have been possible. Cellulosic ethanol helped win the war. In the letter of proposal to the War Production Board in Washington, mention is made of 26 such plants known by military intelligence to be operating, 20 in Germany, 3 in Italy, and one each in Korea, Japan, and Manchuria(occupied China).

During the last half of WW2 after the loss of North Africa, and the Allied bombing of Ploesti---Germany was left with virtually no petroleum. Germany fueled everything from submarines, panzer tanks, aircraft, and even V1 and V2 rockets and the Me 262 Swallow with alcohol and diesel fuels made using the Fischer-Tropsch process, in addition to the ethanol produced by the Scholler process.

Why would ethanol be any less cost effective now than it was over a century ago?

@ "Why would ethanol be any less cost effective now than it was over a century ago?"


Answer: Waste wood and coal feedstocks have always been cheaper than corn starch and oil, but these are much cheaper to convert to liquid fuels. Cellulosic ethanol lost out to petroleum products and even corn ethanol as these feedstocks became less expensive through recovery improvements and agricultural yield increases, respectively.

Thomas Scnmidt------" Do you want to end this energy crisis? Then turn it off.
Pity about Earth."----------

We also had rationing in WW2. We also had consumer goods manufacturing turned off. Gas and oil was rationed. Food staples were rationed. If you needed to get somewhere, you walked, rode a bike, took a bus, or shared a ride. If you wanted more food than you had ration cards for, you grew your own, or you substituted something else. People repaired things and made do with what they had. Or they made what they needed from what they had. Save, repair, reuse. Everything that possibly could be was recycled. Garbage dumps were picked bare. Metal, paper, glass, or anything else that could be reused was collected and put back into the production stream.

We need to convert to sustainable and recycleable uses of resources. If we do not, rationing is waiting in the wings.

--------"Cellulosic ethanol lost out to petroleum products and even corn ethanol as these feedstocks became less expensive through recovery improvements and agricultural yield increases, respectively."-------

Cellulosic ethanol lost out because petroleum production can be monopolized by controling the production of crude oil and the need to refine the oil before it can be used. Even if you had a huge pool of oil under your backyard, it would do you no good---you'd need oil companies to get it out and refine it to a usable form. You can however make perfectly usable ethanol or biodiesel from a wide range of sources that you could grow in your backyard.

Oil companies know this.

---------"........{coal and petroleum}....these feedstocks became less expensive through recovery improvements............."------------

Strip mining is not an "improvement". Strip mining destroys the earth. Strip mining is less expensive to the coal and oil companies, because they are not paying the costs for the environmental destruction they are causing. YOU are paying the costs for the environmental destruction. We are paying the costs for the environmental destruction assisted by the government who hand all sorts of favors to the energy companies to make them wealthy at your expense.

Cap and Trade is just another scheme to make the rich even richer at your expense. Break it down to the component parts---it is just an excuse to allow polluters to continue to pollute. Lipstick on a warthog.

If you really want to have renewable energy---mandate that all cars sold in the US must be flex fuel capable.

It will cost little or nothing to do. Flex Fuel vehicles have been manufactured for years and cost the same as conventional gas engines.

Then let consumers decide. They can use either gasoline or E85, whichever they choose.

The problem is not the technology but the pushback, and not understanding which technology works. My company is intent to market significantly more efficient, less costly powerblocks for Solar Thermal, Geothermal, or biofuel heat sources. Response - 99% intrigue 1% sincerity. RE is spooked because new technology is disruptive, and relegates most all prior investment into the legacy heap. A 7 year sustained aggressive Public/Private effort would result in 100% renewable from todays baseline, given the right paths. RE will disrupt $100's of billions of dollars cash flow, Albeit, put back into the economies is the only way to resolve this recession. Has anyone seen any US CSP succeed, ie, give a competitive $NET/kWH? Major design flaws, say they can't e.g., low operating temps, UTility CSP Europe (w prime Saharra Radiation Locations), may do better, only because, if they solve some tech. drawbacks, such as thermal storage, it applies already to a $B base. In the US, too many, too small. RE will happen just like the PC's, the Outside Company with excellent business acumen. Cheers JR CEO SPI Sannerwind@Gmail.com.