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Solar Power Is Here and There. But Can It Be Everywhere?

By Chris Stimpson, Solar Nation
April 7, 2009   |   13 Comments

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13 Reader Comments
Comment
1 of 13
April 7, 2009
You might want to think very carefully about spending all that money on a supergrid. It may cost less for distributed energy systems even if they are in areas with less of renewable energy resource. The extra amount spent on the supergrid may be better spent on more generating capacity instead of long-distance distribution. Plus there are catastrophic risks with grids and supergrids. See: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20127001.300-space-storm-alert-90-seconds-from-catastrophe.html

I have been living very well on distributed solar in a very cloudy area. I have all the modern conveniences and the system cost less than a used car.
Comment
2 of 13
April 7, 2009
"Imagine trying to drive even from Phoenix to Los Angeles only on local roads, and you have an idea of what it is like to try to move electrons generated at wind farms in northern Arizona to markets in southern California."

That analogy makes me wonder if it would make any sense to build our national "super" grid right alongside our national interstate highway system?

Obviously this is likely to be sub-optimal from a kilowatt/kilometer standpoint, but the federal government already owns these rights of way and could begin building links between major cities/markets without having to fight ALL the battles you cite.
Comment
3 of 13
April 7, 2009
The interstate rights of way could also be utilized by super trains (that would use the power) as well as the national super grid. New interstate highways and railroads could be designed into the super grid where appropriate. I have suggested that the solar energy collectors might be mounted above interstate highways, particularly in cities. Solar energy sheds would contain the automotive pollution for treatment, contain the noise of the interstate and the new national energy grid with proper sound insulation, and protect the road surface from the elements while allowing state highway police to control access. Sprinklers could even put out crash fires. Of course, we'd need to put bike paths on top & sides, too. Placing the electric distribution cables 10 feet down in ditches alongside the road would prevent road vibration from reaching neighboring buildings, too. Increasing near roadway habitability and increasing property values simultaneously can be achieved. If roads become good neighbors, they would not ruin neighborhoods. It is against the public interest to ruin the happiness of the people living near roadways in the first place. Cities need more happy quiet neighborhoods, not fewer. Am I the only human being in this country with a brain?
Comment
4 of 13
April 8, 2009
Placing solar durable solid-state generators (these are called pv panels) in largely ignored, semi-visible and mostly unused and available locations right near the places where people use electricity (known as roofs) , to reduce transmission loss might be one alternative to a supergrid. Local electrical energy storage (referred to as batteries) combined with communications and logic (aka: low-power computers with internet connectivity) running low-cost (we say: open source) software could help offset the amount of power needed to be pushed over a grid. anyway, we're building it - a very not-super, non-grid. and if you want to help out, hey, that would be cool!

http://www.solarnetwork.net/
Comment
5 of 13
April 8, 2009
Distributed vs. Central Plant, we need both.

Solar PV and small wind are simple, small-scale distributed generation technologies. Almost all of the other technologies are more complex and maintenance intensive and benefit from utility scale installations. Conservation and efficiency at the small scale will reduce the demand at the large scale. Reduce your personal use until it matches the output of the solar PV system you can afford. Smart metering will help you sell any excess you may produce at a good price. No transmission changes needed.

In the northwest we have HVDC transmission at 500kV and 1000kV to connect thermal, wind and hydropower resources from Western Montana, Idaho, Washington and Oregon to the southwest US. (search: Celilo-Mead, California intertie, BPA) It has been under development and construction since the 1970s; only BPA has completed and operates significant portions of the overall project. It could be expedited, but why. Lack of transmission is an excuse by renewable energy developers for the delay of economically non-viable projects. Why not bring the load close to the renewable resource? Jobs can move for a variety of reasons including energy supply. Tax incentives make it happen all the time.

Today's news reported a cyber-threat to the US transmission system, which is presently a robust, redundant macro-distributed system (controlled by computers) on a regional service area basis. We become far more vulnerable If we become highly integrated and dependent on a so-called supergrid as shown in the article, which is not a grid at all, but a collection of single points of catastophic failure.
Comment
6 of 13
April 8, 2009
This is one of the better articles that hits the nail on the head. Many respondants have pointed out other technical facets, all of which will be needed to build a renewable energy strategy.

Personally I'm a little wary of Geothermal sourced energy as that adds red spectrum energy to the atmosphere that is not solar sourced. We know that the Earth has coped with solar sourced energy for aeons, and until we know what we're doing a little bit better, I think we should leave it at that.

In any event the French experience with mining geothermal energy has thrown up a lot of technical problems that have a long way to go before being solved, let alone being viable on an industrial scale. The Californian sources have all but closed down now, and no-one knows if the removal of so much water from the fault lines will exacerbate the severity of earthquakes.

My own view is that the technical challenges have largely been solved, and it's really a question of identifying and plugging in all the appropriate energy sources and sinks.

The real, and by far most difficult problem, is persuading enough worthy citizens, most of whom display the most Luddite views of the world, to agree that something positive needs to be done BY THEM as part of a concerted effort to effect a solution. Being a great believer in poacher-turned-game-keeper, I think we have to convince the Exxons, Shells and BPs of this world that their mid- to long-term future no longer lies in oil extraction, but in these renewables. If they can see it as the opportunity it is, then their influence and sheer clout will win the day for humanity. (and yes, it IS that crucial).
Comment
7 of 13
April 8, 2009
I AGREE 100%, BUT
you are leaving out the number one easiest FIX for this problem...
We must stop thinking globally and think locally when approaching this problem
or in other words…

Here is the example: the GA Power Company wants to build 13Billion dollar nuclear
Plant and a 3billion dollar new Coal Plant. In isolated regions of Ga….

I call this "Stink-en Think-en" to quote Zig a very wise man of the 70's…

Lets take that same 16Billion dollars and build 160 one hundred million dollar
Mini-PV plants all over the state. Kills two birds with one stone.
Just think all those jobs it creates LOCALLY. Generate @ the end user stop wanting to generate and then Ship it 200miles to the user…not rocket science

And here is why it makes since in Ga and any other Southern State…

SEIA: Georgia Has Some of the Best Untapped Solar Resources in the World
Washington, District of Columbia, United States February 26, 2009
Georgia, Southeast region poised to lead in solar jobs and power installed

Solar Energy Industries Association (SEIA) president and CEO Rhone Resch today touted the vast potential for solar energy development in the Southeast United States, particularly the untapped state of Georgia.

"The United States has some of the best solar resources in the world – resources that are more than double that of Germany, the current world leader in solar. With the right policies, solar can play a significant role in creating jobs, growing local economies and cutting energy costs for consumers and businesses," said Resch

"Those who claim the U.S. does not have enough sun to power our nation are simply wrong. In Georgia, 23.6 percent of electricity could come from rooftop solar alone*. As a policy investment, solar is one of the best values for putting Americans back to work and creating growth opportunities for utilities and small businesses alike in the Southeast and across the country," added Resch.
Comment
8 of 13
April 8, 2009
At latitude 52 North (where I live along with another 60 million people or so) there is not that much energy available directly from the sun, and the wind doesn't blow every day. We're lucky to get more than 1500 hours of sun a year and we experience four months where the daylight lasts scarcely 8 hours. Any sun we see is very weak and contains little usable energy.

Our existence is totally dependent on energy that we ship in - currently in the form of oil and gas. In time this will have to be replaced by something else, probably HVDC electricity. This is why local PV generation that works so well in the Southern States is something that only the Canadians and Europeans can dream about ...

Incidentally how well does PV work in the dark, or don't you use electricity at night ? (I have noticed the odd illumination in Las Vegas at night).
Comment
9 of 13
April 8, 2009
I'm all for major investments in the US energy grid; however, the idea of Europe importing electricity from Africa and the middle east seems questionable. Becoming dependent on foreign powers, especially in unstable portions of the world, for energy seems like a mistake. To an extent Europe's importation of large amounts of oil and natural gas already make them dependent, but at least they buy their fossil fuels on the open market--a grid designed to connect to specific CSP sources will lock in long term dependency on specific sources.
Comment
10 of 13
April 8, 2009
In comment #8 Bob writes: "CSP, CAES, pump-up, and batteries store power after the sun goes down...."
This is true, although many of these storage schemes are quite expensive. Additionally, at many latitudes there is a huge seasonal variation in solar insolation; for instance, London gets an order of magnitude less sun in December than it does in July. Storage of a couple days worth of energy may be feasible but storing months worth of solar energy for the winter insolation lull is not going to work. People such as Jonathan Cole, who in comment #1 advocate distributed solar, never adequately address this seasonal variation. Jonathan might not have a large problem with this in Hawaii, but if you live in Maine or Minnesota depending of local sources of solar energy for a large portion of your energy needs won't work.
Comment
11 of 13
April 8, 2009
"Distributed vs. Central Plant, we need both."

Yes, ok but we already have a lot of the latter, and not enough of the former. That's why we're talking about DG now. When people say "Hey! let's keep doing what we always have been doing!" it's not really inspiring, especially when it's not working.

What JD Polk says is right on track - we need to take advantages of the natural resources available at the local level. Use as much local energy as possible, and get local resources (people) employed to start working on that renewable infrastructure.

Also when you look at the disaster in the Roane Country last december, it's clear that coal is not a cheap electricity option for the country. We the taxpayer have to pay a lot to clean that up, and we don't want the same thing going on in rural Georgia, which clearly has a lot of sun.
Comment
12 of 13
April 9, 2009
The old way of thinking is to build more generating capacity to sustain growth; the new way of thinking is to reduce demand through efficiency improvements, zero-net-energy buildings and wise use. See Scott Sklar's recent article.

Nobody talks much about efficiency technology. Probably because a PWM VFD is not as sexy as a rooftop PV array. However it is faster, better and cheaper than any RE technology at producing energy savings and providing real value to end users.Efficiency reduces the need for baseload capacity, usually coal, gas or nuclear; the intermittent nature of solar does not reduce baseload capacity requirements.

One recent project reduced electrical consumption at a large office building by @ 400,000 kW-hrs per year at a cost of @$45,000 (2 year ROI through direct savings). Try that with $45,000 of solar PV. Maybe you will produce15-20,000 kW-hrs per year and pay back depends upon subsidy.

I believe that solar PV, CSP and wind are the key to a healthy, lower carbon future for humanity. We will get there faster if we begin to accept efficiency as a powerful tool to green the planet. Solar PV mounted on a California McMansion is an egoists hobby. It probably offsets his 3 X-boxes and the home entertainment center loads.
Comment
13 of 13
It will be interesting to see if super grids ever get built. Today HVDC is certainly better than AC over distances greater than 500 km but both are very lossy over very long distances. I don't know where DESERTEC got that number of 3% losses over 1000km for HVDC. ABB (would make the stuff) are more conservative at around 5.5%, still less than 8% for AC but at some point generating all the power several thousand kms away from the load isn't going to make much sense. Maybe one day we may get cost effective high temperature superconductors and that might be the time to seriously consider super grids.
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Chris Stimpson

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About: I am executive campaigner for Solar Nation, the nationwide grass roots advocacy group for solar power. I am committed to bringing Solar into its proper place i... more »

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