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Saving Green By Building Green

By Starke Jett, Northern Neck News
April 21, 2009   |   10 Comments

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A closed system that recirculates well water is more than twice as costly as a normal heating system, but the extra cost is recovered in about seven years by energy cost savings.
10 Reader Comments
Comment
1 of 10
April 21, 2009
Hi All:

I don't know what they are saying about open and closed loop geo. Closed loop geo is the norm... open loop is the exception and is more difficult due to filtering issues etc. Open loop depending on what the source is can be more efficient than closed loop but will usually be more expensive. Again, vertical well closed loop is the typical system that everybody does followed by horiz ground loop which is also a closed loop system.

As a side note, in the first explanation paragraph, he implies they did an open loop but a few paragraphs down it sounds like they did a closed loop. Not clear at all....

It is great to see people trying to be energy independent and efficient. I wish him the best of luck...

.....Bill
Comment
2 of 10
April 22, 2009
Hi everyone,

I appreciate Mr. Gordon for his efforts to go off the grid totally. And its good to know that some people know about the new techniques in using renewable energies. But I reckon that the government and some NGO's should come forward with some initiatives that can educate people with the importance of the renewable energy and conservation measures for energy.

However, its the government's responsibility to bring much needed awareness and help the people who want to go green with their homes and buildings.

I am planning to have a solar PV power generation for my home in India and want to go off the grid totally, and the central (federal) government here has some finance incentives like soft loans at very cheaper interest rates for homes or buildings that might want to go green.

I am working in an NGO in New Delhi and I am working on the techniques that can help in designing consumer awareness programs where more number of people can know about such initiatives. at the same time I want to com up with a policy intervention and policy advocacy program to help the government to come up with incentive programs and awareness programs for people. I would appreciate any inputs regarding this work from people who can throw some new light on the issues mentioned here. please feel free to mail me at praveen@cseindia.org or praveenmadimetla@gmail.com

To know more about CSE's work please visit www.cseindia.org
We also have a fortnightly magazine 'Down to Earth' please visit www.downtoearth.org.in, andlos our environmental portal at www.indiaenvironmentalportal.org

Praveen Madimetla
Research Associate
Air pollution control unit
Centre for Science and Environment
New Delhi, India
praveen@cseindia.org
Comment
3 of 10
April 22, 2009
It is always good to hear that we are making progress towards low energy use buildings. I am the president of ASAP•house Inc. a producer of modern modular and flat-pack homes that are very low energy users. The house I live in a 2,500 sf four bedroom house was produced by my company. The house is heated and cooled by an open loop geothermal system, the only power we use is electric and we produce over 65% of it with a 10 kW photovoltaic array and heat our pool with solar hot water. It is not rocket science these days to achieve this level of energy consumption. ASAP•house does all this and a rather reasonable cost. We can deliver houses in the north east states for now.

To find out more about ASAP•house please visit our website at www.asaphouse.com.

Laszlo Kiss, President
ASAP•house Inc.
Sag Harbor NY
asaphouse@me.com
www.asaphouse.com
Comment
4 of 10
April 22, 2009
I had an open loop geothermal heat pump installed in my 1978 raised ranch house that is close to 3900 square feet, last fall. This has made my house now 100% electrical. My house is well insulated and I have seen phenomenal savings through a very cold and harsh Michigan winter regarding costs of heating my house. The advantages of such a system in terms of even heat throughout the house (no cold spots), and savings have been more than I had imagined possible. My electric bill has actually been reduced, though it now covers my heating and cooling, as well as the regular electric usage! I am now investigating a hybrid wind/solar system that could take me off the electrical grid. How exciting this whole process has been!

What I do find, though, is a public who is generally unaware of the possibilities and alternative "green" systems available today and how it could translate into tremendous personal savings in heating and cooling, as well as being good for the environment. Many people I have spoken with do not have a clue what a geothermal heat pump is, or how it works. We need more education of the public in alternative energy options. This kind of publication is geared more towards the professional, but an effort must be made to move that educational approach into a more public arena.

Personal success stories, such as the Burgess' story and mine should be publicized more. There is still a tremendous amount of resistance to "new" systems at every level...from county/town permit officials to individuals who are unaware of the advantages that these systems can create, while also being good for the planet. Thank you for including the Burgess' story on this site. A happy consumer is great advertising and helpful in moving people to make changes. It is also time for "officials" at every level to embrace these changes, and become more supportive, instead of creating more barriers to the process.

I wish you all well! And may our future be green!
Comment
5 of 10
April 22, 2009
To Jean Rishel;

What was the cost of the open loop system, and who installed it?
Do you live in the country or are you on a large town or city lot?
What kind of wind turbine are you thinking about? Do you have height restrictions where you are?
What where your standards for insulation for your house?

Dave
klappstein@albertacom.com
Comment
6 of 10
April 22, 2009
Is it just me or does anyone else have a problem with pump and dump (open loop) systems being termed 'green'? Precious few open loopers take the trouble or expense to responsible return said water to its source. Water is an extremely valuable resource and this practice contributes to the lowering of source aquifers. Help me out here, please ... I just don't get it.
Comment
7 of 10
April 22, 2009
Hi MT:

Its called green just because of the BTU side. You are right, if it is an open loop from a pond it should go back to a pond. If it is open loop from a well, it should go back to the well or a second well. I would hope they are doing one of those if it is indeed an open loop system,not clear though...

.....Bill
Comment
8 of 10
April 24, 2009
As with earlier comments, is it a closed or open loop system? I agree that wasting the water in a open loop system seems counter productive.

To Jean Rishel: Where do you live in Michigan? I wonder about geothermal retrofitting on an existing in-floor radiant heat system.

Has anyone come across research or case studies that retrofitted this type of system?
Comment
9 of 10
April 25, 2009
Hi JWM:

You can do geo either as a new install or retro, it really makes no difference as such. If you wish to keep the existing distribution infrastructure for cost reasons or you just like it very much, as maybe in a radiant distribution system, then of course you have to put in the heat pump which interfaces with that distribution system. In terms of the geo heat pump itself, the input side of the heat pump is more or less independent from the output side in terms of being air or water output. I.E. whether you use air or water heat extraction really does not dictate open or closed loop, vert or horiz, etc..
On my house I went from a forced hot air oil system to a horiz ground loop solar assisted solution (heat mode only). You can pretty much design anything you want... The biggest thing you have to watch out for is that the well drillers (vert solution) don't short drill you. If that happens your water temps from the ground will be pathetic and your resistance backup (if you have that option) will run like crazy, driving up the electric bill.

.....Bill
Comment
10 of 10
Hi Bill,

Thanks for the reply. So are you saying that a propane boiler radiant heating infrastructure fluids (carried by tubes in the light weight concrete floor) can be heated by the heat pump output? Am I thinking about this correctly? After reading about this on Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_heat_pumps

I see the various set up options. However, do you know whether propane fuel sources tend to be cost competitive with ground source heat exchangers?

Wikipedia has a nice summary of the overall environmental impact but again not sure where propane stands in this scheme.

Jill
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