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Hydropower Roundtable: New Growth for a Mature Industry

By Stephen Lacey, Staff Writer
March 18, 2009   |   11 Comments

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11 Reader Comments
Comment
1 of 11
March 18, 2009
For the question on hydro turbine efficiency. Th answer is that a modern turbine has efficiencies between 92 and 95 %. You are mightily confused. It is well known that hydropower is the most efficient and plentiful of the renewable energy sources. Why don't you simply google your question - you will get numerous articles to answer your question.
Comment
2 of 11
March 19, 2009
Ronald,
Perhaps you are referring to the comment on the podcast page? You should probably post your comment to that page instead of this one.
Comment
3 of 11
March 19, 2009
Hydropower seems cleaner and safer in the long run than coal thermal or nuclear. More of those 77,000 dams could be used and the ones not useful might be removed as some present a hazard. We had 9 killed on Kauai during a time of strong rains from water suddenly released by an earth dam a few years back. We have dams here that are not up to state safety standards and this may be true for other parts of the US. Safety should be emphasized since we seem to be having conditions of strong rains normally occuring once every 50 or 100 years much but now more frequently which during times of flooding, place high pressure on dam walls. The earthen dams especially are subject to damage and the holding hazardous products such as with the TVA should be examined carefully with the EPA coming up with stronger regulations to safeguard the public.

I am all for funding to be used for more hydro development from dams but I also restate that hybrid systems (pumped hydro back into dams using wind and solar power) should be appllied where ever possible for the following reasons:
1. Increase the stability of power from wind and solar
2. Permit greater use of dams during the dry season
3. Permit the greater use of an already installed grid system
4. Permit higher amounts of power to be produced from a dam

More hydro by increasing the number of dams producing power is good but greater efficiency of hydro by using it with wind and solar is also good. What we are after is total increased clean power for our country. It is important to study the geographical proximity of wind/solar and dams in order to determine the best possible locations for hybrid hydro systems. I do not think any studies along this line have been done thus far.

adrianakau2aol.com
Comment
4 of 11
March 20, 2009
Hydro Power is a great example of a Renewable that can make allowances to facilitate a generating-to-use curve flattening for Solar and Wind. (Geothermal is another) Because Hydro can be to some extent "turned-on" and "turned-of" reservoring potential energy, it, "correctly managed", allows for a larger % of Solar and Wind in a Power Mix. Hydro (in-Dams) both Large and Micro, has a history of being far and away the least expensive renewable. In most cases no additional need for storage above and beyond using the capacity of the reservour itself it needed to "store" energy. 1kw installed Hydro can be more effective the 3kw+ Wind or even more Solar.

Smaller upstream Micro installations can be a formitable bulwark against flooding and overpowering larger channels and installations downstream. Control Systems which integrate smaller installs upstream and account for "flooding/overpowering" conditions downstream will take Hydro to the Next Generation of User Responsive renewable energy as well as providing for non energy water resource use.

I wholeheartedly advocate a Utility intregrated system of upstream MicroHydro Private Landowner installations in a similar application as Private installations of Wind and Solar with Grid control, especially when we look at Mississippi, Red River and a host of other flooding in part caused by Channeling/ Banking to levy flows through populated (unpermiable) areas.

Developement of systems to utilize small stream flows (like backshot waterwheels) would be a boon to private distributed power production and would have the added benefit of lessening the need for Grid Infrastructure spending.

Fasttrack Hydro and put the burden of proof that a project would interfere w/ the "rights" of others on the Government/Those Adverse, at least for private Micro projects, then you could really get somewhere.
Comment
5 of 11
March 20, 2009
Go Hydro Go!!! But first you'll have to do something with the enviromentalists because a minnow might lose his way. I would imagine it is easier to build a nuclear plant than it would be to build a dam across a river. Never the less, I'm all for hydro because I live near several on the Missouri River and can see the great benefits they have for the recreationalists and fish. As far as the poor minnow,,,remember that over 99% of the species that ever were on this earth became without the interference of humans. I have never lost sleep knowing that the saber tooth tiger isn't free to roam or the DoDo bird isn't here any longer.
Comment
6 of 11
March 20, 2009
It is unfortunate that the regulations and permitting required by FERC and other federal and state agencies double and triple the cost of hydro - even at existing dams. No other renewable energy has this burden. These agencies demand studies and surveys that have little or nothing to do with actually improving the environment at a dam that has been in existence for 50 years or more.

If the feds were serious about promoting this important and high potential source of renewable energy they would streamline and make the licensiing process less costly.
Comment
7 of 11
March 20, 2009
Too often, both proponents and critics of hydropower automatically think of "dams" being needed to support this source. Yup, there's historic precedent there, but it isn't true now. The paradigm of 'central source' power generation is now being challenged by the development of wind farms and distributed solar cell generation capability -- many of these are "point-of-use" installations. This compares with more traditional development of centralized coal- or nuclear-fired thermal steam plants. Thinking out of the box here will allow a conversion of thought for hydro, too. Rather than requiring new "dams", which then support large-scale "central" hydropower generation, why not think of using "run-of-the-river", channeled generators? Sure, maybe they are lower yield, but stringing many of them together, feeding local grids over extended distances, can bring greater use of 'distributed' power sources, more reliability (due to numbers), and a greater protection against sabotage or other interdiction by 'bad people.' A river flows 'constantly', 24 x 7. So.... install buried pipeline 'conduits' parallel to the river channel at multiple points along its course. In those conduits, place one or more centrifugal-type turbines that can tap this 'low-head' power of the water and make electricity. Simply divert a portion of the river water through the conduits, then return the water to the river to be used by more such generating stations downstream. Such designs could be made 'modular' (for ease of production and routine maintenance) and their cost reduced accordingly. When a turbine wears out, or needs maintenance, it's merely lifted out of the conduit and replaced with another. Plus, the flow of the river itself is not stopped by a dam, mitigating the concern of environmentalists about fish losses, etc.
Comment
8 of 11
March 20, 2009
Its true that the World Commission on Dams concluded that single purpose hydro dams performed better than other types. But this was mainly because the performance (especially in terms of projected vs. realized benefits) of water supply, irrigation and flood control dams was incredibly poor. 55% of the large dams with hydro components they reviewed generated less power than projected. Cost overruns for hydro dams were around 20% (compared to 63% for multipurpose dams. Going forward it is indeed promising that the new hydrokinetic technologies offer the prospect of "hydropower" having a future as a dam-free, low impact technology.
Comment
9 of 11
March 21, 2009
I believe Geoff Steele's proposal is good. What would be required is a transmission system parallel to the river. Perhaps a good engineering method might be developed to anchor the buried pipeline sections in place. If the pipes brought the water above river level to the turbines, there should be little difficulty in maintenence. The idea of gathering run of the river power incrementally in this manner is a good one.

In fact, I have read that this run of the river method is starting to be used for the Mississippi. It should be expanded to smaller rivers as well.

I am not for dams per se but if they are already installed, they should be used for maximum benefit until they become too unsafe or too filled with mud to function and must be torn down. I would vote for run of the river installations in preference to dam generated power where ever possible.

adrianakau2aol.com
Comment
10 of 11
March 21, 2009
The Hydropower are the new thing?The Your conseguenge, are the lost of Greats Rivers, Lands, The Truth, are Dams in Collaboration to Industry, and Indistriminate Projects, Example in Nepal,or Nile, and More....the alternative Energy are the Geotermal, Solar, Wind, not old Tecnology, Clean, but Dirty(Vajont-Italy over 2.000 deaths..), and destroy the Byo-Systems, for the Business.But the Clean-Energy not use the Caterpirpillar, Not Destroy, the Mountains, Valley, Not is Invasive..is Anti-Economic......Is the Future!
Comment
11 of 11
March 24, 2009
Great article & recomendations. Has any work been done with retrofitting an old ship to simply being fitted with propellers and generators and anchored in a swift stream/river/gulf stream for the sole purpose of generating electricity?

If an industry is energy intensive i.e. hydrogen production the manufacturing could actually be done on-board. Otherwise the electricity could simply be fed to shore and used for pumped storage, irrigation or tied to a grid.

Miles of the Miss. River could be used used for generation without a single dam. It would be producing on calm or cloudy days, when other methods aren't so productive.

They would also slow the river flow a bit and conserve water to the ocean.
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