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Nuclear Denial

By Michael Mellish
September 18, 2008   |   38 Comments

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38 Reader Comments
Comment
1 of 38
September 18, 2008
I am far from a fan of nuclear energy. I believe that it is a most irresponsible way to produce power. However, this article is devoid of easily obtainable facts.

Who pays? The consumers do.

"Since it may cost $300 million or more to shut down and decommission a plant, the NRC requires plant owners to set aside money when the plant is still operating to pay for the future shutdown costs."

This works out to $.01 to $.02 per kWhr.
Comment
2 of 38
September 18, 2008
Nuclear power certainly poses many problems with regard to waste disposal, but for the time being it generates the most power at the lowest cost per kWhr of any carbon-free technology. It will likely play a major role in reducing both oil dependence and CO2 emissions in the near future until more effective renewables are developed. In addition, advanced research has already enabled the design of very safe new reactors and could very well lead to the development of better waste elimination (or recycling) techniques.
Comment
3 of 38
September 18, 2008
We should be applying methods other than nuclear to generate power.

The East Coast, for example, has excellent sources of ocean wind. The mid-west has excellent land wind and much of the western side of our continent has good sources of Geothermal.

I believe that low temperature Geothermal double loop generators functioning with a heat exchanger such as the UTC's Pure Cycle 280

http://www.utcpower.com/fs/com/bin/fs_com_Page/0,11491,0167,00.html

could be used economically with glass double wall vacuum tubes in any area of the US with good sun sources. Both Geothermal and solar heated water could be used at a Geothermal well site with the solar portion accommodating peak power demands during the day.

UTC's generators are good for mass production since over 90% of the parts are from standard industrial refrigeration manufacturers. Modules are additive and the plant MW capacity can be built up over time.

What we need now are specifications for hot water production using very efficient and low cost glass vacuum tubes. Since temperatures within the tubes can reach 250 degrees with no need of solar tracking (the outside portion of the cylindrical tube always remains perpendicular to the sun if the tubes are lined up in a North-South direction) this type of heat generating solar farm should prove very useful in conjunction with low temperature Geothermal plants. However, engineering efforts are needed in this area.

adrianakau2aol.com
Comment
4 of 38
September 19, 2008
Andrew G ,

"for the time being it generates the most power at the lowest cost per kWhr of any carbon-free technology"

Mainly because of the enormous negative externalities that it posses. One example is the - The cost of those 100 000 years of nuclear waste storing are not included in the cost per kWhr. Another is the pollution of uranium mining.

Plus there is not a single one private nuclear plant in the world - all have received some governmental help one way or another.
Comment
5 of 38
September 19, 2008
Just wondering: where did the "75 years active cooling of vitrified waste" number come from? I seem to remember from an excursion to a reprocessing facility in France that the vitrified waste needs only passive cooling (i.e. natural convective air flow), and I don't remember for how long. Could the author please list some sources? Thanks.
Comment
6 of 38
September 19, 2008
Dimitar - I take your comment one further. With nuclear power, the consumer pays 4 times for their electricity.

1. Government subsidies/tax breaks/grants during construction
2. As above, but during operation
3. the electricity you actually use
4. Government subsidies/tax breaks/grants during decommissioning (this last to go on - as noted - for 100,000yrs.

Also, there is not a single nuclear power station on earth that was built on time or on budget.

Also, if the whole world went nuclear, we'd reach peak uranium in approx 50yrs.

Go Nuclear!
Comment
7 of 38
September 19, 2008
Nuclear power requires levels of responsibility that are beyond our capabilities. The leak at Three Mile Island came after maintenance was halted for more than 3 years to save a couple of bucks. It seems our short attention span makes it easy for corrupt politicians and their big business masters to trot out old failures as something new and different. "Clean Nuclear Energy" is the biggest lie ever spoken.
Comment
8 of 38
September 19, 2008
Hi:
Good article.... but... the Nuke ball is already rolling along again...
Burn you house down to keep warm and worry about the shelter later...
Is not that what we do.... we are soooo smart.....

.....Bill
Comment
9 of 38
September 19, 2008
Dimitar,

Everything has negative externalities. Wood frame housing caused deforestation, seafood dinners caused ocean depletion; it's part of the price of technological civilization. Every person on the planet competes with every other. The solution is a capitalistic system -- NOT SOCIALIST

As much as I hate regulation, have the uranium mines take back the spent fuel... The holes created to mine the uranium are more than big enough to hold all the waste even it fuel reprocessing was the norm.
Comment
10 of 38
September 19, 2008
Mr. Mellish: As an ex-nuclear engineer for GE, I agree with you !
You have put the final nail in the nuclear coffin. The "death knell" for nuclear power industry has been rung. The many reasons for the collapse of nuclear power systems include:
∙ safety problems
∙ inability to dispose of nuclear waste
∙ potential uncontrolled proliferation of nuclear materials in the hands of
terrorists
∙ According to the IAEA, it has the highest cost for generating electricity
(14.5 cents/kWhr) of all fossil fuels and all of the renewable energy
sources.
∙ during the period 1985-2007, there was a huge cost escalation from
$1 billion to more than $9 billion for the same size nuclear plant. An
equivalent-sized solar power plant can be built for 1/4th the cost of a
nuclear power plant.
Since 1987, over 18 European countries have voted to abandon, stop construction or eliminate nuclear power plants. What do they know that we don't about nuclear power ? Even France with its large numbers of nuclear power plants has started to build renewable energy power plants instead of more nuclear power plants.
Dr. Warren Reynolds, CEO
Eco-Engineers, Inc.
Comment
11 of 38
September 19, 2008
FACT:
No nuclear plant in the United States has ever made more energy then it cost to build, maintain, operate and store/process the waste from. You must look at the life cycle of the whole before making statements like this BS:
"Nuclear power certainly poses many problems with regard to waste disposal, but for the time being it generates the most power at the lowest cost per kWhr of any carbon-free technology."

We could spend billions in building a new nuclear power plant and in 20 years, it might come on line.. OR we can spend that money, build Wind, solar, geothermal and make more power, have money left over and not has the waste to deal with. Give over already!
Comment
12 of 38
September 19, 2008
New nuclear represents another quick fix that will backfire, as usual. We've been spending tax bucks on Yucca Mountain since around 1987 and still haven't rested a single radioactive pellet there although opening ceremonies were in 1998. It will probably never open except as a tourist attraction. We might as well cut our losses there and shut it down to save a tax buck. Then when generation plants require closing, we can fence them with armed guards and have the expense added to our electric bills.
Comment
13 of 38
September 19, 2008
About 24 months ago there were 104 licensed Nuclear Reactors in the USA - which would imply IF each reactor had to set aside $300 million for decommissioning, there should be $31.2 Billion in "Protected" cash assets somewhere. Has anyone actually seen any notation in the annual report or on the balance sheets of the major public utilities to find this cash? Or is it held in trust by the US Government like it manages the Social Security "Surplus"? $300 might cover the cost of decommission a plant, but it won't cover the next 999,925 years after that.

As to the cost of a nuclear power offering the "Lowest" cost per KWhr for non carbon based - it requires very "Special" accounting to come up with that number. Costs before ligitation, and before inflation for the stretched out time scale look like $2.5 billion for a 1000 megawatt reactor / turbine / electrical generation plant. Does anyone seriously believes that a new reactor would avoid the costly & continuous litigation that nearly all previous projects have suffered. Cost overruns? Legal Challenges to the safety of the design? Legal Challenges to evacuation plans? Legal Challenges to environmental impact statements?

I have yet to see an independent study (not sponsored by electric utilities, nuclear power companies or engineering firms) that has ever rated Nuclear as a "Cost Effective" option.
Comment
14 of 38
September 19, 2008
In comment 10 Warren Reynolds writes:
"According to the IAEA, it has the highest cost for generating electricity
(14.5 cents/kWhr) of all fossil fuels and all of the renewable energy
sources. "

Perhaps Warren will provide a proper citation for this cost claim? I have seen quite a few numbers in the ballpark of 4 to 7 cents/KWh for new generation capacity and find the 14.5 cent/KWh number highly dubious. Certainly I am paid nothing close to that price from the nuclear power plants that supplied my electricity and I doubt they are giving me a huge price break out of the kindness of their hearts....
Comment
15 of 38
September 19, 2008
In comment 6 Natasha Long writes:
"Also, if the whole world went nuclear, we'd reach peak uranium in approx 50yrs."

Well, 50 years sounds sufficient time for the renewable energy providers to get their act together and to be able to provide large increments of new capacity at reasonable prices--something they are not even close to being able to do now. For major capacity additions in the near term the choice seems to be between nuclear and coal, and of these two nuclear seems far less worrisome.
Comment
16 of 38
September 19, 2008
Great article. A nuclear engineer warned me 25 years ago that nukes are a disaster waiting to happen. He described how cooling ponds keep getting subdivided into smaller and smaller sections for each rod, pushing the rods closer together. Cooling and special fluids are needed to keep these from starting their own reaction. Very scary stuff!

Question: The French get a large percentage of their power from nuclear. Someone told me that they reprocess a lot of their fuel thus reducing the problem. Are their processes that could be used to reduce or neutralize the large amount of low level nuclear waste that is accumulating?
Comment
17 of 38
September 19, 2008
Steven,

Actually, total life cycle cost for wind and solar are already cheaper than nuclear, coal, oil & gas when "all costs" are considered. Source: Nanosolar, Ausra, eSolar, etc. Witness the recent explosion in wind power projects worldwide.

All that remains is for us to get off our butts and build the infrastructure.
Comment
18 of 38
September 19, 2008
Michael Mellish says:
"In a recent case, the U.S. government failed to disclose on a timely basis that a U.S. nuclear submarine MAY HAVE leaked radioactive water inside a Japanese harbor. "
-----------------------------------
Please give me the references that provide the details of what happened. Thank you.I
Comment
19 of 38
September 19, 2008
Alfred,
Regarding your remarks in comment 17, I am naturally suspicious whenever people factor in nebulous additional "external" costs into the cost estimates in order to show that renewables are somehow competitive with established technologies. Big customers (e.g., India and China) tend to rely or more conventional estimates of "cost". I am especially suspicious of cost estimates of solar provided by the solar industry. If solar was truly as cheap as you suggest, why would Germany need to provides more than 56 cents/KWh in subsidies as this story suggests?:
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/story?id=53518

Wind is arguably an affordable technology but even with the high growth rates current production is still quite limited and that industry is simply not yet capable of supplying the required capacity additions. Already growth pains are evident; for example, this story claims 60% of wind turbines are behind schedule on maintenance:
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/infocus/story?id=53502
German wind energy production increases are beginning to slow appreciably and a major cause seems to be a scarcity of new turbine sites.

Even if we could produce and site as many wind turbines as we wanted, intermittency issues become a problem after perhaps 20-30% of total capacity comes from this source.

Nuclear power has a number of inconveniences but it has one huge advantage--we can affordably build lots of generation capacity with available technology.
Comment
20 of 38
September 19, 2008
Hi:

Post 19
"Nuclear power has a number of inconveniences but it has one huge advantage--we can affordably build lots of generation capacity with available technology."

I wonder if the hydrogen bubble had ignited at TMI, if the population in Harrisburg and the rest of the NorthEast USA would have considered it an inconvenience....

.....Bill
Comment
21 of 38
September 19, 2008
Someone with the moniker "Windpowered" claims in comment 11:
"FACT: No nuclear plant in the United States has ever made more energy then it cost to build, maintain, operate and store/process the waste from. You must look at the life cycle of the whole before making statements like this "

This is, of course, nonsense. Fission leads to much more energy than is required for fuel processing, plant construction, etc., which is why power companies can make money at it.

Fuel processing, for instance, costs only a few precent of the lifetime output of a power plant. See, for example:
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf11.html
All generation equipment takes energy and other resources to manufacture, install, etc. and nuclear plants compare favorably with many other schemes. Certainly they produce much more energy than they consume.
Comment
22 of 38
September 19, 2008
For Andre Dermant
I would point out that a simple search on Google using:
US Nuclear Incidents
Military Radioactive Discharges

Will produce for you many hours of interesting reading

You can also search on Rocky Flats & Hannaford sites for the environmental disasters created by the operation of these Government sites and the multi billion dollar bill for even partial clean up.

The article about Japanese outrage over the failure of the US to timely disclose a nuclear discharge problem was widely publicized back in May & June 2008. I don't have a specific reference, you shouldn't have much problem finding copies if you search national newspapers during those months. However here is an example preserved on the web.

http://gregornot.wordpress.com/2008/08/02/japan-guam-notified-of-radioactive-seepage-from-us-sub-navy/

Once you start reading, you will begin to understand my "Nuclear Denial" title
Comment
23 of 38
September 19, 2008
Clearly there are individuals that are pro-nuclear and others that are against it. One thing I think we can all agree on is that there is a lot of effort spent on fighting about it.

How about this: stop the subsidies altogether and let the free market decide. Under that scenario it's certain that nuclear can't exist.
Comment
24 of 38
September 19, 2008
With regards to the decommissioning fund, each US nuclear plant has contributed, since it opened, to a site specific fund whose proceeds are restricted for use in restoring the sitre after the plant is retired.

These funds are in the billions of dollars -- the fund for Indian Point 2 in New York was estimated at public hearings in 2001 by Entergy Nuclear to be worth about $20 billion by the time the 40-year license expires in 2013.

In the meantime, the for profit companies now owning most of the plants has bewen granted permission by the IRS to list these funds as cash assets on their books -- which means they may borrow against them and use them to improve their bond rating even though they cannot touch the funds.

In addition, plant owners are now seeking license extensions of 20 to 40 years. More than 40 have already been granted 20 year extensions, and the funds will continue to grow during that period.
Comment
25 of 38
September 19, 2008
The industry has the solution to the 40 year life span of nuclear plants - keep them running with license extensions. The newest proposal is for 70 year extensions and the industry and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission can tell you exactly why this is viable and desirable.

What they can't tell you is what to do with the waste. The author is certainly correct when he describes future storage sceanarios. It reads like science fiction and stories have been written on this theme. Reprocessing is not recycling. It is a once through process that leaves an even more concentrated high level radioactive mess.

The nuclear industry is a corpse asking for resuscitation in the form of massive taxpayer subsidies. It cannot compete in a free market. Wall Street would not come up with the capitol for construction before the current crises and it is unlikely that the government will be able to do so after the dust settles on the current mess. See Amory Lovins at the Rocky Mountain Institute website for more on this.

The myth of superior French nuclear power continues to circulate only because information is strictly controlled by the government and their state secrets act makes it impossible for activists to publish problems without having their computers seized and facing lengthy jail sentences. While they do have standardized design, the French have the same problems we do. Linda Gunther of Beyond Nuclear just came back from France. See their web site for more details.

We don't need nuclear power plants. We need distributed sources of green generation for a healthy and efficient grid. Smaller sources closer to where power is needed are cheaper, quicker to put in operation, cleaner and make for a more efficient grid. It also creates more good paying jobs than nuclear monoliths. See the recent Natural Resource Defense Council report on this for details. While they dealt with oil, many of their points can apply to nuclear as well.

Nuclear is a bad deal.
Comment
26 of 38
September 19, 2008
Right off the bat in comment #1, you think 300 million to decommission a nuke plant. You obviously don't live on Long Island, ! billion and counting for Shoreham, that never made a Kw of power. I've worked in 3 nukes since1962 and was a supporter. As I've learned more, I have given up hope that nukes would ever be viable. The sad part is that the solutions have been out there for a long time. Conservation, renewables, and common sense can get us through this, if the pols. don't give all our money away to the moneychangers on Wall St.
Comment
27 of 38
September 20, 2008
In comment #24 "Rainmaker" writes:
"How about this: stop the subsidies altogether and let the free market decide. Under that scenario it's certain that nuclear can't exist."

All US federal subsidies for energy total about $17 Billion, the largest piece of which goes to renewables. The notion that the nuclear power industry is being propped up by massive cash payouts from the federal government is untrue. I bet the industry insiders would be only too happy to give their tiny cut of federal energy dollars back in exchange for a reduction in the massive bureaucracy that is strangling them. Nuclear power is being aggressively pursued by a large number of nations--because it remains one of the best extant methods for electricity generation. Now if the German government stopped the 50+ cent/kWh subsidy for solar power the renewable energy industry would be wailing and gnashing their teeth.
Comment
28 of 38
September 20, 2008
Two words:

Price Anderson
Comment
29 of 38
September 20, 2008
Comment #28; Steven--
This is a pretty comprehensive list of nuclear subsidies copied from a book written in 1996: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Corporate_Welfare/Nuclear_Subsidies.html

This is a far cry from your assertion. I really don't care what the real amount of subsidy is, I just want to level the playing field by getting rid of all of the subsidies. In that scenario, I believe renewables win.

And, while your comment about the beaurocracy strangling them is likely true, how realistic is it to just let companies regulate themselves in this situation?

The nuclear issue isn't even worth any more argument because it will never come to a sensible resolution. If all that effort going into arguing about nuclear was directed toward renewables you'd see how quickly we could build renewable capacity.
Comment
30 of 38
September 20, 2008
Hi:

I think you can be sure of one thing... that the people who have a stake in nukes and promote it will make sure they are very well connected to all the necessary communication points, so if a nuke even begins to have a hiccup, they will be running the other direction INTO the prevailing wind... expecting all the remaining people glowing in the dark to pickup the tab....
Fission is just another example of a military started technology, interlacing and insulating itself into society, to maintain its long term survival.. and is pretty much guaranteed a governmental "ear", do to its strategic beginnings and its current military value.... what else is new…..really..
Comment
31 of 38
September 20, 2008
Rainmaker writes in comment 31:
"This is a pretty comprehensive list of nuclear subsidies copied from a book written in 1996: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Corporate_Welfare/Nuclear_Subsidies.html
This is a far cry from your assertion...(referring to statement of mine in comment #28)"

This list claims a subsidy of $7.1 Billion per year, but it pads the number considerably. For instance, it lumps in $0.24 Billion per year for fusion research. This isn't a subsidy for the nuclear FISSION industry, it is a subsidy for a possible future competitor (and well worth spending). The list adds in all sorts of costs for waste treatment and storage issues. Much of this cost would be required even if we had never had a nuclear energy program because of the consequences of our past nuclear weapons program--thus much of these "subsidies" are costs the defense department would have to pay anyway. The claim that "lost taxes" from closing nuclear power plants is a subsidy seems truly weird--no one pays taxes after they close up shop. The big ticket item, estimated at $3 Billion/yr is the Price-Anderson insurance program. Price-Anderson has yet to cost the tax payer a single dime and probably never will. No one charges coal plants for catastrophic insurance although given the strong likelihood of harm from global warming that would be much more costly. Even if I accept the full $7 Billion figure, that is $24 per person--a trivial amount. The average American uses ~12000 kWh/year in electricity; ~20% from nuclear so this inflated estimate amounts to a 1.0 cents/kWh "subsidy". This is tiny compared to any of the subsidies given to renewables on a per kWh basis. For most countries the figure would be much less because they don't have huge research programs in nuclear technology which the list author insists is a "subsidy".
Comment
32 of 38
September 20, 2008
September 20, 2008


"fire of energy" writes in comment #29:
"Anyways nuclear is just plain Stupid because it couldn't cost any more to build RE and battery storage (especially with a subsidy to kickstart mass production): I get 10 NiMH AA's for $11, that's 2.6amp hours at 12 volts.
If I want to store, say, 12 hours worth of "sunlight", I need 120 AA's."

and

"Another counter is simply SPT's and molten salt storage, or the e-car grid, ect..."

To start, "12 hours of sunlight" isn't a proper unit of energy. Standard rechargeable AA batteries are 1.2 V not 12 V. Each AA battery is capable of holding about 0.003 KWh or energy. If you wanted to store your overnight energy needs in AA batteries you would need several thousand. Better battery options exist, but as an energy storage option they are very expensive and only make sense in off-grid locations. Molten salt storage only works for solar thermal power or some other scheme where the harvested energy starts out as thermal energy, otherwise the ~30% conversion efficiency of thermal to mechanical/electrical energy is a killer. Solar thermal is currently costly and limited to a few regions on the planet (where would one site a solar thermal plant in the UK or Ireland?). If I had an electric car I would not want some utility to be able to discharge the battery at will. Affordable energy storage is much harder than you make it out to be....
Comment
33 of 38
September 20, 2008
One element that is particularly topical in the current bailout climate is that the government has to be the insurer of nuclear power plants for liability because private insurers will not take the risk. So if there is some kind of meltdown, the taxpayers get stuck with the consequences, not a private company.
My second thought is that these power plants take so long to get online because of the time required for the studies and permits and the sophisticated construction that it is not a quick solution, and there is no output until the plant is finished. On the other hand solar and wind facilities are able to start producing quickly and ramp up output as the number of panels and turbines is increased.
Comment
34 of 38
September 21, 2008
I'm not a nuclear engineer but if the "spent rods" must be kept separated in cooling ponds doesn't that mean they have energy left? Maybe they can be reprocessed or used for some low level generation of power production, like we do with low BTU gas.

Also, why does each facility need to have their own storage facility? Why not have a single nuclear waste where all material that needs to be stored & guarded could be done in one spot?

Why must a nuclear power plant have to be shut down and demolished after 40 yeas. Why not refurbish & refuel, since the infrastructure is already in-place?

Why was Shoreham not started up do the people on Long Island that much money or energy or fear?
Comment
35 of 38
September 21, 2008
If you look back at the record you will see that even without including the disposal cost of nuclear waste, the utilities just about went bust trying to pay for plants constructed in the '70s. Giant power projects have huge dis economies of scale, whether they are coal or nuclear It is beyond human ability to bring a 12 year long multi-billion dollar development effort to fruition in the original budget. Too many things change in the intervening time, including costs, changes in demand and development of competing technologies.
Small distributed generation has many advantages including reduced capital demand, increased resistance to technical perturbations, better power factor at the consumption location and reduced wear on transmission infrastructure. From just and economic perspective Nuclear power plants should be a last resort.
Comment
36 of 38
September 21, 2008
If the spent fuel rod would continute to release heat that may cause a concern, then couldn't this amount of heat to be collected and used?
Aren't we collect and use heat sources for electricity generation?
About 20 years ago I read an article on HAZMAT about a study of trying to use the radiation from nuclear waste to directly convert into electricity. But, I have not seen any consequent study report or articles about this type of research. Couldn't we convert Garmma ray into electric current?

The other question I have is that if we don't concentrate uranium, wouldn't it continue its decaying process in the nature backgroud and which is the cause of the molten core of the earth where the geothermal energy from?

I would assume there are a lots of areas remain for innovative use of nuclear energy development.
Comment
37 of 38
September 22, 2008
Good comments Roy...Geothermal makes use of thermal energy deep in the ground..why not get some use of the heat in the cooling ponds? And, if we have to store and guard 100 spent rods how much more would it cost to store 1000, for the next "million years", on the same site?

Granted if we didn't have the first nuke plant we might want to rethink it all but Japan changed all that didn't they?
Comment
38 of 38
September 29, 2008
Everyone eats, drinks and breaths man-made
radiation from the first atom bomb "test" in
1945. It is already in your DNA forevermore!
As of 1996, a book lists 528 exploded atom
bombs in the atmosphere!

Global warming is being used as an excuse
for many agendas. The longest lived polluting
agent is nuclear power. Comparing mortality
will not make you less dead! Don't be fooled
again!

The aim of nuclear power is to make plutonium
239 for atom bombs and create the BIG STICK
of political might. Electricity is made from the
heat which makes steam and turns the electric
turbines. The trick is to make you pay for your
own doomsday!

Nuclear terms are designed to confuse the
public mind. Nuclear waste...is not waste!
Spent fuel....is not spent, but actually more
radioactive coming out than going in as fresh
fuel. Depleted uranium ordinance is illegal
under the Geneva Convention and etc.

There is 'off the shelf' science that can reduce
plutonium 239 to zero radioactivity and produce
electricity from the heat. In 1979, after the Three
Mile Island accident, Dr. Radha R. Roy invented
the Roy Process for neutralizing nuclear waste .
It became an AP world wide news story.

Then president Ronald Reagan signed, "The 1982
Nuclear Waste Policy Act" which made geologic
isolation federal law! This put alternatives like
cost effective photon transmutation in limbo.

All one can do now is not build any more nuclear
power reactors, and photon transmute to zero
the so-called nuclear waste. This would both
neutralize the waste and create electricity from
the heat.

Albert Einstein once said, "Nuclear power is one
hell of a way to boil water".
----------------------------------------------------------------
NEW VIDEO - YouTube - The Roy Process
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v7030VAeLA

Video - Would you like some nuclear waste with your champagne?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbRP-QfeI-8&feat
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