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Wind Lifted by Higher Tariffs in Germany

By Jane Burgermeister
June 18, 2008   |   13 Comments

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"Offshore wind parks are the only renewable energy source that can deliver that kind of growth because the good sites on land have already been taken."

-- Thomas Schnorrenberg, REpower Systems
13 Reader Comments
Comment
1 of 13
June 18, 2008
"why do we keep looking for open spaces to kill off when we have billions of structures without any generation capacity on them?"

Because the wind resource on buildings in cities is quite poor and therefore decentralized small rooftop wind turbines are inefficient and a waste of everyone's money.
Comment
2 of 13
June 18, 2008
Wheres that Schmidt guy?
Comment
3 of 13
the most important part of the article is tossed in as an afterthought at the end:

However, the amendment did not contain any incentives for installing micro wind turbines — predicted to be the next big growth sector in the renewable energy market.

"The use of decentralised small wind turbines could deliver an additional cost effective and customer friendly source of potential electricity in as far as optimised turbines in large quantities can be manufactured," a report from BWE said.


why do we keep looking for open spaces to kill off when we have billions of structures without any generation capacity on them? time for a new paradigm that prioritizes point-of-use and protects wilderness.
Comment
4 of 13
June 18, 2008
Note that the prices are given in Euro "cents/kwh". To convert to US cents multiply Euro cents by 1.56 (from June 18) .
Comment
5 of 13
June 20, 2008
That load factor is more like 25%, and that wind may not be used.
Wind is a supplement, not a substitute.
Comment
6 of 13
June 20, 2008
Paul,
I recall a recent article and subsequent comments that discussed it. This isn't it but it's a start:

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/story?id=52687

As I recall, the solar incentive was disproportional to the solar resource available in Germany.
Comment
7 of 13
June 20, 2008
I noticed they increased the tarrif for wind but decreased it for solar. Anyone know why?
Comment
8 of 13
June 20, 2008
Yes, wind has an important role to play, but in declaring the benefits to the grid we should remember the load factor which, on average, is 30% - 35%.
Comment
9 of 13
June 20, 2008
The only way to succeed is to create wind power systems which are cost justified without government incentives. We have NG, Next Generation Wind designs and business models, that do exactly that, and have an objective $.05/kWh (US$). We do not have the huge overheads, or need to regain the investment cap, just go forward. We will accept government incentives, but are not dependent on them. Sannerprojects Inc Target / Beta installations may not be Germany. Wind has all the favorable fundies, including it does not shut down at night (like Solar), and succumbs to proven engineering resources, and models. R Dylan said it, The Answer My friend is blowing in the Wind! JRIAM1945@aol.com.
Comment
10 of 13
June 20, 2008
The article talks about wind power generated, not about the power actually used by the grid. In Denmark most of the wind power can't be used by the grid at the time it's generated; it has to be dumped off to Norway, Sweden, etc. The article also doesn't talk about the backup capacity that has to be installed.
Cost for off shore wind installation is apparently in the range of $5,000 per KW.
Comment
11 of 13
June 21, 2008
rolf -- that is totally misleading, wind is a substitute not a supplement. In simplest terms at the moment.

If you have an expensive gas or diesel resource, you can avoid burning much of that fuel by using a wind turbine as a hedge against burning that fuel.

Then you can upsize your wind installation and dump some of that into advanced storage such as graphite storage being used here in Australia, vanadium redox battereis (canada/australia and now in Ireland) or compressed air.

All these are examples of electrical storage. Another way renewables are being introduced to complement each other is, wind power is being installed + large scale photovoltaics -- sured up (backed up) by Solar thermal with storage. Solar thermal with storage includes - power tower with direct graphite storage, ammonia thermochemical disassociation and salt based storage as being used in spain.

Wind power is probably one of the cheapest energy sources on the planet. Turbines are cheap and readily available. In the German sea their capacity factor is 50%. On land in Tasmania, South Australia and New Zealand their capacity factor is 50%. This means -- lots of electricity for not much cost.

Matthew
Campaign Director
Beyond Zero Emissions
Comment
12 of 13
June 22, 2008
The Copenhagen Post January 1, 2007:

"ENERGY GIANTS SAY WIND POWER IS HOT AIR"

"The country's energy companies are not convinced that wind power is the way of the future. Management at Denmark's energy companies, DONG Energy and Vattenfall, do not subscribe to the current mindset that wind energy will be especially prominent in the future, reported national public broadcaster DR. The companies believe that coal-powered electricity will still be the largest supplier of the nation's energy, despite the trend toward environmentally friendly sources. 'Wind energy can't solve the energy problem in the near future because it's too unstable and possibly too expensive,' said Anders Eldrup, chief executive of Dong Energy [Denmark's largest energy company]." [cut]

http://www.stopillwind.org/downloads/WhyWindWontWork.pdf
Comment
13 of 13
June 22, 2008
Both Rolf and Peter post misleading comments about the Capacity Factor for wind power -- as if the capacity factors for wind (which range from 20% to 50% depending on location) are somehow indicative of a detriment or troublesome aspect of wind power. Nothing could be further from the truth -- it is simply an indication of the fact that the wind does not blow at the maximum speed at which a given turbine is rated for a given wind resource. It is like saying natural-gas fired peakers are somehow deficient or failing to perform because they only operate for tens or hundreds of hours a year, instead of generating electricity at 100% power year-round. Natural gas fired peakers operate only a fraction of the time, because that is how they are designed and economically-justified and engineered to perform.

The same is true of wind turbine generators, which obviously only generate electricity when the wind is blowing -- they are rated (their capacity in megawatts, just like a natural gas peaker plant) for what they CAN generate when the wind is blowing the strongest, but they generate at this maximum output only certain times during the year (again, the same as a peaker unit).

So when a capacity factor of a wind project is quoted as 40%, that is a reflect of the wind resource AND the turbine technology employed at that location, and nothing more. The posts above seem to imply it is somehow a problem to be dealt with, which is nowhere near the case, and is reflective of a general ignorance on wind power, for those who do not understand the technology and how it is being integrated in increasingly large amounts in many countries around the world, including the U.S. and Denmark.

And Rolf's comments mischaracterize the situation in Denmark to a large extent, too. A good resoure to learn more about how wind is being integrated around the world can be found at this website: www.uwig.org

Jeff Anthony
American Wind Energy Association
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