A Silver Bullet For High Gas Prices

A simple on-board electrolysis hydrogen generator could be used to boost the mpg of an ICE (Internal Combustion Engine). These units are already being used by trucks in Canada and are being installed into trucks used in Korea.

Another choice is the the development of the hydraulic hybrid which looks very promising at this time.

adrianakau2aol.com

From the article ...

"since only 2 percent of the nation's electricity is generated with oil,"

Drs Duncan and Youngquist warned of this. (See University of Berkley study.) The vast majority of electrical power is manufactured using coal. If we suddenly moved to electricity for auto power, our coal reserves would be consumed entirely in 50 years, according to these scientists. Scientific brew ha ha? Gee, lets burn it all and see! Solar, wind, and hydro. Lets start focusing on the renewables and leave this carbon based mess in the ground. Its why we all hang around Renewable Energy World.com, is it not?

I have heard so much balogna from experts... I do my own testing. I built and installed my own Edison hydrogen generator in my 92 Chevy APV. Thats right, I said Edison. Many "experts" said Thomas was a fool in his day also. He proved those idiots wrong.

My gas mileage increased 4 to 6 MPG. More than enough to pay for the ten bucks in materials it took to build it. And ones criminal background does not negate the scientific basis of everything he speaks. Being narrow minded is as bad as being a thief or criminal. It causes people who can not think for themselves to be misled. Study the science Edison wrote of. Ignor the criminal hype and learn using your own mind and the criminals will become simple minor irritants. Do the math. Math never lies or tries to show someone how bright it is.

I am utterly amazed at all the people who think that a hydrogen car would burn hydrogen in a combustion engine. A hydrogen car would in essence be an electric car which used hydrogen to store the electricity like a battery. The fuel cell can produce more power than batteries can, at this time, so it initially seems like a good fit. With the increasingly more potent batteries we probably don't need a fuel cell in a vehicle.
Fuel cell and electrolyzers are still an efficient, long-term and green way to store electricity from renewables.
Now all we need is a market for all that carbon that we need to remove from coal and other fossil fuels. Ever hear of nanotubes or buckyballs? You can actually create storage vessels for hydrogen at the same time you're converting these fuels to hydrogen. You could actually fabricate car bodies from this carbon that are lighter and stronger than anything we have today. Why not turn a waste product and pollutant into a building block for the 22nd century?

OK, you got to love this. The guy posting above (Cornelius Van Milligen) says the hydrogen generators really work. So I Googled his name and I get.

FORMER IRS AGENT FOUND GUILTY OF FALSE STATEMENT AND WIRE FRAUD

Cornelius Van Milligen, age 58, of Utica, Kentucky, in Daviess County, was found guilty by a federal jury in United States District Court, Owensboro, Kentucky, of false statement and wire fraud,

I don't know if it is the same guy but it does say he worked with Kentucky Division of Energy.

This does not exactly build confidence in this technology.

Ah the joy of a public forum.

Recent news on Thin metal oxide films for improved electrolysis:

June 18, 2008

World Energy Solutions, Inc. (WEGY.ob) has acquired Advanced Alternative Energy, Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of UTEK Corp., in a stock transaction.

Advanced Alternative Energy, Inc. has negotiated a worldwide exclusive license to a device that can separate water into its component elements of hydrogen and oxygen. Thin metal oxide films have been developed in a laboratory at Florida State University for the purpose of improving the efficiency of water electrolysis. The films have demonstrated the ability to generate both hydrogen and oxygen near their thermodynamic limits, thus potentially allowing for very high efficiencies.


Perhaps this technology combined with lo-voltage, hi-amp PWM can improve the electrolysis rate.

We are a small independent testing lab. We have been commissioned to test more than one Hydrogen generator using electrolosis of water powered by an automobile generator. We have found from 11% increase in MPG and HP to 44% depending on the unit tested. All of our tests were on diesel units.

Our affiliate in AZ has recently reported to us that they have tested a unit that achieves 70% inrease in MPG on a gasoline engine.

I think some of the hydrogen talk may be coming from individuals who have taken some of the 75% wasted energy of the present internal-combustion engine and converted it into some form of usable energy. Why not? And why not combined-cycle car engines like the ones used in back-up power plants. They convert their waste heat to steam to provide a second source of power. When the wasted energy of the internal combustion engine is harnessed, there will be a surplus of petroleum again.

I agree with the comment about the conspiracy theorists and water car promoters. There guys show pieces of the technology but deliberately omit the complete picture. Aside from the troublesome laws of thermodynamics, there's the issue of cost, reliability, replacement of the various membranes and cell components as they are consumed.

I am a hydrogen skeptic. The Honda hydrogen car is a wonderful thing, but where are we going to get half a billion pounds per day of zero-carbon- footprint hydrogen to run a hydrogen powered transportation sector? Solar and wind powered electrolysis? Do the math. Hydrogen, however, can be used as an energy storage scheme on a large scale for intermittent renewables, such as wind farms. I had a wind farm manager tell me once that he thought on-site hydrogen production was the best way to solve his intermittency problem. NREL has on ongoing project for this.

Despite the presence of coal produced power in the US, it is worth it to advance EV's. It is easier to de-carbonize our power sector than our transportation sector. Every fat surburban American is able to run an extension cord out to the driveway, and even Republicans could enjoy avoiding gas stations. There is a significant political and psychological appeal to EV's (home fueling ability) that should not be underestimated, once the battery price drops by half or so . Difficult as it may be, the prospect of batteries becoming twice as efficient is more realistic than a trillion-dollar carbon-free hydrogen production and distribution system suddenly appearing across the nation.

I think that pure EV's will flow from the investment in hybrids going on right now.

Wow, did we ever get off topic here. I really don't understand why so many people are so in love with hydrogen. When we finally get all these problems with energy figured out, the next wars are going to be over water and water is already becoming hard to come by for many communities in the US not to mention the world. Hydrogen would never work for the middle east, but electric cars might. Just say no to Hydrogen!

I am looking forward to the incorporation of thin film solar on Hybrid Plug in cars. On top of that. the next big step is finding a way that we can capture the wind that is created in travel to make electricity. Then we could have millions of solar and wind electric cars generators running around.

In the long term, there will be a limit to the reductions we can make in transportation emissions, unless we a) find an extremely high volume way to sequester CO2 from fossil power plants or b) generate transportation energy from renewable sources. One of the big problems with renewables is intermittancy and one of the benefits of plug in or H2 vehicles is that they provide a means of storing energy, increasing the yield and stability of systems with large amounts of intermittent renewables in them. Both require massive investment in new infrastructure. It looks extremely daunting, if our definition of success is to complete the transition overnight, but if we take a more realistic view it is not only realistic but quasi-certain. Several massive changes have occurred over the past 300 years and none of them have happened overnight.

Paul,
Thanks for saving my sanity. It would be nice to have a focused discussion. If hydrogen does not work, then let's talk about something else.

I would also like to second the notion of a two step process. Get cars that run on electricity, and then find ways to make the electricity clean. Also, you can probably conserve enough electricity in your home (CFLs etc) to power your EV and have no net pollution.

Powering an EV is more flexible. Now we just need someone to produce a practical car at a reasonable price.

Thanks
John C. Briggs

You are right John. The hydorgen economoy is unlikely. Hydrogen is just a storage of energy. Batteries do the same thing, are closer to a reality with EV and don't create the losses that occur with the hydrogen conversion.

As for moving from oil to coal, this is true. It is an exchange from one pollution to another, but it is only the first step. The second step is moving electricity generation from coal to RE.

It saddens me that the discussion has turned to electrolysis hydrogen generators. One of these magic things that you can add to your car to improve MPG. Here we go again.

I have been studying EVs for many years. One thing that I have found that there is a strange-attraction between EV enthusiasts and conspiracy theorists. The favorite among these people seem to be "free energy". The story is always the same. There is a brilliant guy in a garage somewhere that has discovered a way to create "free energy" with a complex device. The government and big industry is trying to suppress this. The garage guy just needs to be a little bit more work and we will have "free energy" if the government and big industry does not interfere.

These things can never be disproved and might be real, but, to date, "free energy" seems to be a complete myth and says more about human spirit than physics.

So now we have electrolysis hydrogen generators. There is some guy, in a garage in Canada that has got this to work and there is a video on YouTube. However, there is no third party testing and the people reporting on it are non-technical. So what are we to think of this? Well, could be real, but it has all the earmarks of junk. I don't see any University studying this stuff or a major company embracing it. Until that time, I wouldn't put much stock in it.

As for the hydrogen economy, isn't this dead already. All the university studies seem to show that it takes 4X the electricity to run a hydrogen powered vehicle than a pure EV. If this is true, why are we still talking about the hydrogen economy?

Changing from petroleum powered cars to coal powered cars may reduce our dependence on foreign oil but it will increase carbon dioxide emissions and global warming.

Interesting,

As we can see, many are already well aware of installing small hydrogen generators using electrolysis in their vehicles. I must have come across afew dozen more such devices since I first installed unit on my car three years ago. When I read the comments that more power has to go in than you get out, I just smile. Book smart PhD's are not getting the whole picture, and that is what has hindered development for years, resistance from the scientific community.

While this resistance is slowly being knocked out of the way, it should have happend decades ago and we would not be in this position of energy dependence on foreigh oil after the last embargo, but gov. did nothing, and this was partly because of the scientific community and its book smarts. lol
Never say never should be the oath of every scientist, instead it is blind faith in what is written a hundred years ago.

If I have seen an improvement of a consistant 31% in fuel economy on my car with no alternator failure, makes you wonder about input/output factor where it says it cannot happen? Yes, my alternator may have to work harder, but it is so minute that I have seen no issues, I even have the same battery in vehicle for 8 years which is a first for any of my vehicles?

Like all new and developing technologies, it takes a combination, no one technology is the answer. If auto manufacturers would disclose the electronic schematics of ECM units so we can better set up hydrogen systems, more would be seeing success, but for most, this is just too difficult, and I am certain the manufacturers know this. To insure hydrogen boost systems work, you have to separate the hydrogen from oxygen, yet most units on market don't. It is nearly impossible to get these units to work on newer vehicles with all the sensors working against lean burn situations, never mind limits to timing adjustment ranges needed to insure maximum economy, with no damage to engines.

I am currently assembling six small coiled electrolysis HHO generator to work with series 6 volt dc from the alternator of the car, it is claimed by reducing voltage and using a pulse width modulator efficiency can reach 70% in relation to the present fuel mpg of the given ICE. Note the computer of the car after one week will increase the fuel delivered by the injectors canceling out any increase in MPG. This is because of the increase in O2 present now in the exhaust. The is compensated by using a millivolt offset pot to increase the millivolts by approximately 100 mv - 200mv. I you are interested check out you tube search (water4gas at half the price).

Regarding the plug in hybrid, the question must be asked as to the emissions in the energy cycle of the grid feeding power to the car! It may be that with coal powered electricity generaton, that net CO2 emissions are higher than driving as a normal hybrid.

The electrolysis unit in question as Ben states has some losses in the hydrogen cycle, however, hydrogen is a very fast burning fuel, and a small amount mixed into the fuel air mix will allow it to burn faster producing more work in the early part of the stroke. This produces a more efficient energy conversion from fuel to mechanical energy, and outweighs the energy consumed in hydrogen production.

Another hybrid design in being worked on by I believe BMW, and used exhaust heat to drive a closed cycle steam driven cylinder, and a further cylinder on a propane cycle.

I hope that when OPEC pulls their usual trick of lowering the price of oil when they see us seriously moving toward alternate fuels. that the American public does not take the bait this time. We have had thirty-five years to get it right, but our government and the general public ignored the inevitable energy debacle we are now suffering. This time we shold move ahead no matter what, and free ourselves from the terrible dependancy on oil. In the meantime, I'm driving my little Toyota as seldom as possible. The only way I can protest this fuel ripoff is not to waste fuel. We must show the oil companies that this time they have gone too far, and we mean business!

I shall be thankful to Mr.Akau if guides me to sources for purchase
of Electrolysis Hydrogen Generators which are being used in Canada.
My contact: bestofstates @yahoo.com

Of course, using Methanol still poses challenges, like how do we produce enough of it cleanly? Bomass? Renewable Energy with Carbon Sequestion?

Either way, when compared to a "Hydrogen Economy", I believe that a "Methanol Economy" has significant advantages and maybe closer to realization considering the technological challenges of both.

While hydrogen offers distinct advantages in that it can be converted cleanly and efficiently into heat and electricity through the use of fuel cells, with our current technology the modes of transporting hydrogen pose significant challenges. This is why I am interested in Methanol. Methanol can also be utilized as a fuel for fuel cells in that it posses four hydrogen atoms which can be converted for fuel cell use. While it does not convert as cleanly as pure hydrogen, it can be converted fairly easily and with minimal exotical materials. Plus it is much cleaner when used in a fuel cell than compared to the combustion of fossil fuels.

The biggest advantage that I see with methanol is that it is liquid state under atmospheric pressure and ambient temperature. This would allow for the U.S. to use existing infrastructure to transport the fuel, pipelines, oil trucks, tankers, etc. One negative aspect of Methanol is that it is poisonous if you drink it, but so is gasoline. However, when compared to gasoline it has a much lower burn temperature, so it could actually be deemed safer, at least with regards to its properties as an ignition source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_economy

Dear Tim,
"... does not negate the scientific basis..."
Let's have the scientific basis, that is all I am saying. Scientific basis is not based on impassioned arguments. Scientific basis is double blind research studies, replication by major universities, and testing by independent reputable labs. There are good reasons for science to be done this way. We should not forget the lessons of "cold fusion".
Thanks
John C. Briggs

#2 Hydrogen storage doesn't compete for conversion efficiency and energy density -- which are the things that matter against chemical storage batteries such as A123 systems Li technology or Methanol from non food competing/non habitat destroying biofuels -- such as dedicated salt water tolerant algae or crop residuals.

#2a Dr Keith Lovegrove at ANU university is promoting using Concentrating Solar Dishes to power pyrolysis of wood (or algae) feedstock and make methanol -- this methanol could get exported from Australia to Japan instead of coal -- the methanol (wood alcohol) would actually consist about 30% solar power embodied in the methanol and 70% from the wood''

#3 Oil would be better off directed into existing coal plants instead of coal and powering electric Vehicles and hten phased out ASAP.

#1 - Plug in Electric or Pure Electric vs gasoline -- total life cycle emissions

The Electric drive system has much lower CO2 per mile/kilometre. Why?
Because the global oil industry is very complex.. we have
Exploration, Extraction, deforestation, oil pipelines, oil leaks, oil well fires, pipeline fire, Tanker explosions, tanker spills, tankers sinking, cracking, distribution, flaring of components of the hydrocarbon cycle that can't be easily sold
AND
the biggest oil consumer The US global military complex, protecting the world's oil flows, and the war in iraq -- this standing army is consuming a significant proportion of the worlds oil

#1a -- this is even the case when powered by dirty brown coal here in Victoria (worse than USA) we have 1.5kg / kwh of CO2. But the EV comes out on top at 200watt hours per km driving a prius versus petrol with all it's tailpipe and embodied emissions.

#1b we must move to zero emissions and replace the power infrastructure with renewables. To lower the cost of integration smart meters can dump excess power from wind that doesn't correspond with high demand into our electric vehicles using a preferential cheaper tariff

I would agree, the mass populace is so entrenched in the conception of contemporary science that they are restricted inherently. Energy - transportation along with health care are the major burdens on future societies, of coarse food and shelter are concerns as well. Electrolysis is already being used in South Korea for the purpose of decreasing ICE emissions on mass transit vehicles, the HHO electrolysis systems are not supplemental fuel platforms they are combustion enhancement devices, they introduce Oxegyen+HH which in the appropriate amounts enhance combustion properties, we do not need to argue the point that this contradicts the 2nd law of physics because we are already starting with a ICE that is only 25% efficient. We may take 7 -10 hp from the alternator or engine's rotary torque energy to produce the needed power to generate electrolysis via Alternator.(which is much more than actually is used) direct the power wire from the fuel pump source to a 30 amp fuse then route power to a pulse width modulator 12volt DC 15amp wire, this will power the units, fuse wire then wire the units in series 2 rows of three mason jars,or HHO generators. The type of hho generators are on line at water 4 gas .com. a bit of advise wind them closer together if you make them yourself. it makes more hho gas . 316 stainless l wire is what is used for the hho component. this around a 1/4" per spaced grooved out plexiglass X tower ,Opposing +- wire coiled around a plexiglass tower, these are electrolysis generators X 6 in series to reduce the voltage to 6 volts. I will in my research confirm or dispel this grass roots movement, or scam, that has been propagated recently. I am currently manufacturing six small HHO generators (water4gas.com)that are 316 stainless wire coils + and - wound inside a mason around a plexi glass X tower or shaft, the shaft is connected at the top (lid by two drilled hole thruogh and into the jar with distilled water and 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda