Email This Story
Share This Story
Add to Bookmarks
Printer Friendly Version
40 Comments
Wilmington, Delaware [RenewableEnergyAccess.com] Citizenre's new REnU 25-year fixed rate residential solar electric system rental program allows homeowners in 40 states to choose green energy while eliminating the large upfront investment costs and premiums over power purchased from electric utilities.
Add Your Comment
40 Reader Comments
Comment
2 of 40 |
December 8, 2006
It's clearly worth learning as much as possible about this. http://www.citizenre.com/robertreese
|
|
Comment
3 of 40 |
December 8, 2006
Neil - we will happily sell systems to homeowners but it doesn't make economic sense for them - why tie up the capital. 70% of the public would love to have solar power but way less than 1% are willing or able to afford investing $25,000 to $50,000 upfront for a system.
|
|
Comment
4 of 40 |
December 8, 2006
Citizenre is vertically integrated and manufactures at a large scale. Our cost basis per installed watt is half that of our best competitors. We have also streamlined the processes for installing and maintaining home scale systems. This means that we can profitably handle retail home business at kwh rates as low as 7 cents per KWH. Citizenre maintains all CO2, pollution, and renewable energy credits as we own the systems. We don't need rebates and expect that all US solar electric rebate programs will be terminated in the next two years. We're economic without them. They have actually held back the industry.
|
|
Comment
5 of 40 |
December 8, 2006
LiteSolar is offering a deal of 15% below the utility price for 30 yrs
However they have no intention of doing it for home owners,they will not provide Power-Purchase Agreements to any one needing less than 80kw |
|
Comment
6 of 40 |
December 8, 2006
This is a great business model, I agree about problems with small scale installations.
Here is another company doing it for commerical buildings and apartments: LiteSolar http://www.litesolar.com/home.htm |
|
Comment
7 of 40 |
December 8, 2006
I think this is a great deal. We get to see more solar on house tops, which reduced GHG and carbon, and the renters get the financial benefits that are supposed to be delivered without the wait we see here in NJ with the rebate queue.
I was wondering about whether the contract is sellable with the house? What if the next owner doesn't want the system on the house? And I assume Citizenre Corporation maintains the rights to the RECs, right? Very creative model. |
|
Comment
8 of 40 |
December 8, 2006
The above questions are both appreciated and this is my busimess model plan to satisfy all "renter/owners" under ECO-Energy Group. We will not use Photovoltaics, however, as we want to make considerably greater investment return. No wind either. Strictly solar both direct and indirect on the thermal mechanical side...
|
|
Comment
9 of 40 |
December 8, 2006
Great idea, this obviously gives an option to those that at the present time can not afford the investment and they can start to benefit partially on having the system installed. I wonder if this company will give a lease option so people could eventualy become owners and no just renters.
|
|
Comment
10 of 40 |
December 13, 2006
I have investigated Citizenre: and the ReNu progam extensively in the past week, and have made some interesting discoveries that need answering. A few:
-Citizenre: claims to be in the process of building a 500-Megawatt/year solar module manufacturing plant in Delaware. If this is the case, why has there been no press regarding this? Where did they procure the roughly $500 million dollars necessary or such a facility? It would be very big news indeed, as would their means of procuring sufficient silicon to manufacture these panels. -Citizenre: claims "vertical integration," but currently has no engineering, installation, manufacturing, sales, service, or administrative staff to speak of. The extent of their "integration" seems to be a very slick website and a vast campaign of promotional comments on websites and chatrooms that are not normally intended for promotional purposes. Caveat Emptor~Buyer Beware |
|
Comment
11 of 40 |
December 20, 2006
Nonetheless, as we investigated the industry further, looking at the data regarding the market, we noticed that price parity was not the overall barrier. There was a hidden barrier sitting right behind price parity. The barrier is that of investment risk. Customers simply do not want to burden the investment risk. However, if they do not have to assume this risk, then they are all for adopting PV.
Knowing this, Citizenre has organized power finance deals that purchase the annual production from our manufacturing facility. The assets are then placed on the consumer's home where it generates a revenue stream for the investors who put up the money in the first place. In addition, the assets capture tax credits and renewable energy credits, which it can then sell off to the marketplace. So we may not make a sizeable return by organizing the debt instruments for systems being placed on the customers rooftop - the investors do, but we certainly make our profit as the manufacturer. |
|
Comment
12 of 40 |
December 20, 2006
A few years later, Greenpeace questioned whether the financial analysis was correct. They did not understand why BP was not building the plant when all indications seemed as though there was a market. Thus, they commissioned KPMG to conduct an independent audit of the study - the study by the way was labeled MUSIC-FM. It is no longer available on-line. However, the KPMG audit is and is entitled Solar Energy: from perennial promise to competitive alternative. The conclusion of the audit was in agreement with the original MUSIC-FM study. This is the study that motivated us to move forward with a venture in the solar industry.
|
|
Comment
13 of 40 |
December 20, 2006
From our knowledge base yours,
This is not a trade secret. Several of the industry players (BP Solar in particular) know of this business approach, and attest to its ability. They are simply not going after the market like we are. A study that was commissioned by the European Union in 1995 tasked the European Photovoltaic Industry Association to determine what it would take to make PV electricity cost competitive with traditional power. BP Solar was the lead investigating company and reported to the EU in 1997 that they could make PV comparable if they built a 500MWp plant. They further stated that with the technology of the day, they could do it. Their conclusion was that the market was simply not there to offtake the annual production so they were not going to do it. Allen Priest Executive Sales Director Citizenre Corporation http://www.citizenre.net/register |
|
Comment
14 of 40 |
January 2, 2007
You still have not answered the key questions: how has Citizenre been financed, and where is the plant, and how can you claim a 50% cost savings before you've even completed building the plant to make the panels?
I would very much like to believe that this is a feasible venture, but evasive answers don't inspire confidence. |
|
Comment
15 of 40 |
January 4, 2007
What a lot of people have trouble understanding is the fact that the homeowner pays for all electricty generated. Regardless of whether or not they use it. The 500 security deposit is a joke, considering that the installed system is worth 20,000 dollars or more. The commission scheme for the housewives they are recruiting also smells like a ponzi scheme. This is all to good to be true, so . . . . . .
|
|
Comment
16 of 40 |
January 4, 2007
What is normal wear and tear? I live in MN. Hail wind snow ice and just bad summer storms are common. Is that normal wear and tear? You take full responsibility for upkeep and make that a selling point, that's great. But if you keep up with it you should never have any major problems so your risk is low. The biggest risk, loss, you leave fully on the customer. If the power company has a line down or a transformer blows yes they pass on cost through all customers but not at the tune of 20000plus each. Also you dont say what a unit is valued at. Do you get to make that choice at time of lose? I see holes now. Thank you for your time
|
|
Comment
17 of 40 |
January 4, 2007
Section #5 Insurance and Risk of Loss, Damage, or Theft. I don't own this unit but have to bear the cost to fix or replace the unit? Home owners ins will not cover this unless you rewrite your policy and included the unit. With the high cost of the unit the ins prem will also rise and any savings you talk about in the sales pitch will be lost. If you dont cover the unit with ins. you stand to pay for a unit you never owned and wasnt this the reason you wanted to rent this unit..because you couldnt pay for the up front cost of one?
|
|
Comment
18 of 40 |
January 4, 2007
Alan. Can you field this? My legal just looked at your contract and I talked with my ins. agent about this. Section #8. Indemnity. This is bad, never vague. If this unit falls off the house and damages my property, a neighbor, a person walking down the sidewalk I will hold you harmless. If you install it incorrectly and my roof leaks or something worse I hold you harmless. Are you kidding? Who do you think those people will come after? The customer, me! Will your home owners ins cover you for these claims? That brings me to the next topic.
|
|
Comment
19 of 40 |
January 4, 2007
I'm not understanding why it's so important to know where financial backing is coming from? I found this site and topic while looking for information on the company and other RE products. People start business in their garages with 10.00 in pocket. Private investors pour millions into companies everyday that I'm sure we will never here of on the news until years later or maybe not at all. I've looked into RE for my family and the cost is to high to do alone. I'd say this sounds like a great idea and am only sorry I didn't think of it first. Of course someones going to make money on this, every business is in business to make money, at least you can say your helping families and the environment. Cheers
|
|
Comment
20 of 40 |
January 5, 2007
Does Citizenre tell pp who sign up WHEN they will get thier panels installed? Is there any timeline? I couldn't find any. what if you have to wait 2 years?
|
|
Comment
21 of 40 |
January 10, 2007
Oh yes.
I just learned that, the system owners will get their $500 deposit back with interest after they own it for 25 years. And they just increased the payments to their pyramid marketing team. Here's a little quote from a long document: " Earn $200 [$100 @ installation & $100 on 1 year anniversary] Once you have 5 customers personally & 5 customers from your Team [total 10] Earn $300 [$150 @ installation & $150 on 1 year anniversary] PLUS: You will earn bonuses as your Team has systems installed through 5 levels of Ecopreneurs (depending on your level in the Powur Plan). Level 1: $80 Level 2: $40 Level 3: $40 Level 4: $20 Level 5: $20 - > this level will pay you more then your first 4 levels combined!" Sadly citizneRe is not a business that will install systems, rather they are a marketing scam. |
|
Comment
22 of 40 |
January 10, 2007
Please do not give CitizeRE a penny.
All they are is slick webpage and different representatives responding to blog post. They are nothing but hype... I have tried to understand the economics of their business model - and it is a total failure. Find that analysis here: renergynow.blogspot.com The entry of January 10 2007 |
|
Comment
23 of 40 |
January 11, 2007
The homeowner's $500 deposit is what they are after. Get 10,000 people to do it, and they made their $5,000,000 and they disappear.
|
|
Comment
24 of 40 |
January 17, 2007
I received an email from one of the salesman. He claims there will be an announcement "soon" on their production facilities, etc. but "You could wait until the announcement in late January or even until installations start in September to send in your contract."
I am still a skeptic. Having seen no independent evidence that Citizenre is anything but a web-based hoax, or ponzi scheme, I will bide my time. |
|
Comment
25 of 40 |
January 23, 2007
According to AN INCONVENIENT TRUTH by Al Gore, the global warming crisis can be stalled, if not reversed, if enough of us begin right now to do everything we can to go green. As I see it, we have a vehicle that can do exactly what the program offers. We also have a choice. We can do everything we can to destroy it, or everything we can to work out the kinks and insure its success. If someone is worried about how it is being financed, then let that person pursue means by which to secure financial support for it. The solution to any problem is found in the possibilities. I watched Al Gore's video and was moved to act each day to do whatever I could to be a part of the solution to global warming. I choose to work toward a fix it mentality filled with possibilities. What choice will you make.
|
|
Comment
26 of 40 |
January 23, 2007
I must admit, even though I am fully supporting this program, some good questions have been asked. I too would like to have an idea as to where the plant actually is along with some other concrete data. However, I have learned over the years, that everyone and everything has flaws, naturally. Citizenre, flaws and all, has a great idea that appeals to everyone at a grassroots level. A way to provide green energy to nearly everyone who owns a home with southern exposure.
|
|
Comment
27 of 40 |
January 23, 2007
I personally have been involved with Citizenre for about two months. I have neither given, nor been asked for even one penny by the company or any of it's agents. The only thing that has been asked of me is that I represent the company, product, and the mission professionally and ethically. In fact, I have heard many individuals state they would promote this program without any compensation at all if only it would help people along this path toward green living.
|
|
Comment
28 of 40 |
January 23, 2007
I have been involved in several MLM's, and other marketing schemes. The one thing they all had in common was that the person joining the "team" had to purchase something, buy in, or autobuy inventory. In other words, the participants finance the matrix themselves in the hopes of getting more people involved.
What I haven't seen with Citizenre so far is an investment or even a purchase of any kind on the part of the independent direct sales participants, or even the customers. |
|
Comment
29 of 40 |
January 26, 2007
This is a total farse. I work for a Solar business here in New York State and am hugely concerned that customers are being falsley lead. This means some potentially trastic effects on those of us who have worked hard to devlope a market for solar energy. Unless they are hiring aliens to come and install their systems, their is no way they will be able to find a single installer available in the industry. Finding installation proffessionals is the largest barrier facing the industry today. oh, that's right, it's "vertical integration like Dell computers, you can just bring them over from India. Who's going to install your systems? Certainly not my teams in New York state and you'll be hard pressed to find many others. Good luck, but don't mess it up for the rest of us.
|
|
Comment
30 of 40 |
January 29, 2007
(part 3)
To me it sounds like you are saying the solar industry cannot grow because there are not enough installers. If that's the case, we need to train people to become installers. Solar has to be part of the global warming solution, so that's pretty inevitable anyway. I would say the largest barrier facing the industry today is silicon supply, but that is being addressed. I would say the second barrier is the high cost of solar panels for the end customer. Whether Citizenre is for real or not, rental-like schemes are part of the solution and it's here to stay. It's been done for commercial properties for a few years now. Don't be surprised if electric utility companies start offering similar solutions. Mr Martijn Mollet www.molletphoto.com Light is Energy and Image |
|
Comment
31 of 40 |
January 29, 2007
(part 2)
I can understand that sellers of solar systems feel threatened because they can loose those sales profits if everyone suddenly rents solar systems. But profits from installations would increase. With the low cost to renting customers, there would be many more installations. This will create jobs. (cont...) |
|
Comment
32 of 40 |
January 29, 2007
(part 1)
Eliot, While I do agree there are questions to be answered regarding Citizenre, I find it strange that a solar installer would not want to get into the business of installing rental systems. Installers get paid for installing systems. Why would they care who owns the system? (cont...) |
|
Comment
33 of 40 |
January 30, 2007
My major concern is that this is a multi-level marketing program (pyramid scam?) that rewards sales people who recruit other sales people. This money has to come from somewhere. It is the end user that will pay.
Paying 90% of avoided costs sounds pretty good (save $50, pay $45), but why wouldn't someone want to finance the system on their own (banks love to loan money to people who invest in property that appreciates in value while the energy savings can help pay back the loan), to pocket 100% of the savings and incentives ( a ten fold return versus the CitizenRe business model). Brandon Leavitt Solar Service Inc. |
|
Comment
34 of 40 |
February 11, 2007
I have consumed every last bit of data about CitizenRe that I can to understand their great offer for consumers. I have signed up my home and I am working on getting all my neighbors in the green! You have nothing to lose. Get your home registered and avoid the long wait lines. www.jointhesolution.com/yorkville
|
|
Comment
35 of 40 |
February 11, 2007
We protect people from the investment risk. Why SPEND tens of thousands of dollars on a system that in 5- 10 years will cost a fraction of the price you pay now? You SPEND $30,000 and something better comes out ten years later that is more efficient and a fraction of the cost, you can't just discard your $30,000 "investment" because that would be a waste of your money.
We are attracting several highly respected names from all around the solar industry who are moving accross country just to get involved. Go to the Corporate website and look and see who our CTO is. You will be very pleased with our selection! |
|
Comment
36 of 40 |
February 14, 2007
Be Sure To Check
CitizenRe, A House of Cards? http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=47419 |
|
Comment
37 of 40 |
February 18, 2007
brandon leavitt said above:
My major concern is that this is a multi-level marketing program (pyramid scam?) that rewards sales people who recruit other sales people. This money has to come from somewhere. It is the end user that will pay. Brandon, CitizneRe is not a pyramid structure, it is a multilevel marketing plan.There is a surge (in the last three years)of the number of fortune 500 companies using this strategy. This marketing method is now even taught in colleges. If solar was so available to the masses, and people can get loans as you suggest, than why has the market penitration been less than .5%? CitizenRe will make a huge presence in this failing market because of their aggressive buisines plan. Lets all give them a chance. Call me with any questions about this company: 630-553-8697 r.veach@comcast.net |
|
Comment
38 of 40 |
May 2, 2007
I am in the insurance business. Liability is an issue. You simply must check your homeowners policy very carefully. Many policies will cover items belonging to others. To alleviate this I would suggest that Citizenre contract with the companies that insure cell phones and allow a 3 to 10 dollar a month insurance premium be added to the rental of the unit.
|
|
Comment
39 of 40 |
June 28, 2007
The multilevel marketing plan for Citizenre requires NO investment by the "Ecopreneurs" (except any business cards, flyers, etc. they feel like buying.) Citizenre has found suppliers of some useful materials, like banners and T-shirts - that they are offering to us at cost, but we are not required to use them. All training is free, people work together to man booths at home shows and pool the results. We're in this to get solar panels on roofs, and maybe to earn a little bit (or more) as well. The system allows people to earn from up to 5 levels - no more, and the people at the top just earn a few dollars per customer, while the people who "help others get solar" earn the most.
|
|
Comment
40 of 40 |
June 28, 2007
Many Citizenre customers have checked with their insurance agent, and the result is that they would be covered at no extra cost. It's no different from owning your own panels!
|
Registered users, please make sure to Sign-In. We and others want to know your ideas and opinions.
If you are not yet Registered -- it's quick and easy. Just click below.
Thanks!
Previous Article
1 of 40