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What Is Holding Back Solar Hot Water in the US?

Jennifer Runyon
May 25, 2012  |  56 Comments

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Solar hot water has been a commercialized technology for many, many years now. It had its heyday back in the 1980s when it seemed like everyone was putting a system on his or her roof. Even my dad, the ultra-conservative New York City money manager put one on our house in Connecticut when I was a teenager.

Unfortunately, however, the technology wasn’t all that reliable. I remember quite a few lukewarm showers and my parents’ disappointment that the system wasn’t exactly performing like it was supposed to. From those I’ve spoken to, my parents’ experience with solar hot water in the '80s wasn’t all that unique, either.

As Dad always said, (and I’m paraphrasing here) “as soon as the price of oil went down, no one cared about solar anymore.” He finally paid someone to remove the system in the early 2000s. 

But even if my parents stopped caring about solar hot water as soon as the price of oil went down, the passionate solar engineers didn’t stop working to better the technology. And over the last 30 years, the technology has undergone some major improvements.

That’s why today it is well-known in the solar industry that solar hot water pays for itself in as a little as five years, even less in some locations. And globally the technology is widely used. “There are whole countries and parts of the world where it’s completely ubiquitous,” said Zach Axelrod CEO of Skyline Innovations, a Washington, DC-based company that has in a sense turned the value proposition of solar hot water on its head. 

Instead of selling solar hot water, Skyline Innovations sells savings.

The company doesn’t even really talk about “going green” or doing right by the environment in its sales pitches. Instead Skyline Innovations just focuses on the guaranteed utility-bill savings it offers its potential commercial customers, which range from housing complexes to laundromats. “You are absolutely right, we are not selling solar, we are selling guaranteed savings,” Axelrod told me.

Skyline has just expanded to California and recently announced the completion of solar water heating systems for three multifamily buildings in southern California, owned by Williams Holdings. Skyline said it provided the solar water heating systems at no upfront cost, and Williams Holdings will receive a 25 percent fixed discount on its utility rate for water heating. (Oh, and solar hot water, too.)

Skyline Innovations isn’t the first company to innovate how to sell solar hot water and it won’t be the last. Now, some U.S. states are starting to recognize the potential of the technology. Just this week Maryland approved an adjustment to the state’s renewable portfolio standard (RPS) that allows it to use solar hot water to meet the solar portion of its RPS, also called its solar carve-out.

Admittedly, the industry still has some barriers to overcome in the U.S. Namely it needs to change the minds of those people who installed solar hot water and found it didn’t work as promised. But if Skyline is ready to build its entire business around a guaranteed savings, then you can be sure the technology, at least the technology that Skyline is using, has got to work. For Skyline Innovations, solar hot water is simply money in the bank.

Keep your eye out for a longer feature story on the U.S. solar hot water industry in the coming month. And if you have something to contribute, let me know by leaving a comment in the section below. Or send me an email: click on my picture and fill out the contact form.

Lead image: Money in Hand via Shutterstock

The information and views expressed in this blog post are solely those of the author and not necessarily those of RenewableEnergyWorld.com or the companies that advertise on this Web site and other publications. This blog was posted directly by the author and was not reviewed for accuracy, spelling or grammar.

56 Comments

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B Sturgis
B Sturgis
June 5, 2012
@John-dangelo Granted, your SDHW is more efficient, but has a higher initial cost and there is an opportunity cost as well as cost of capitol to having had a higher outlay of cash or credit to begin with. You still haven't said what the initial cost is for your system and that initial cost does count for many of people. I couldn't afford $4000 for SDHW and alot of people can't. I could afford $1500. Because you say there is no payback, doesn't mean there isn't, replacing my electric water heater with the Hybrid had a certain payback of lowering my electricty usage by 1/3, if I did pay more for SDHW I would have had a little bit more of an energy savings that would have had a payback in the cost difference in 7 to 10 years. If you use less of something than you used before, of course there is a payback for replacing it with something more efficient. That's what you're trying to use as your benefits, lower electricity usage, increase in value of a house (don't know if that might increase your real estate taxes...). That is PAYBACK, although I like to call it Return On Investment! Having highly efficient appliances does increase the value of a house somewhat, but if you're not planning on selling, that point is mute for a lot of people. I'm just giving another answer to the question posed by this article, Hybrid Hot Water Heaters are a real and current competitor that can hold back Solar Hot Water. Even with your counter arguments, many people will opt for the lower buy in of ~$1800 versus ~$4000. No Shame as you say, I'm still saving a lot of money with the Hybrid, just not as much as I could with SDHW. Thanks for all of the info on drainbacks, I'll certainly do more research on them, but don't shoot this messenger for giving another answer to the question posed by this article. And don't get stuck with only SDHW, Solar Hot Air is cheaper to install and has a quicker ROI than SDHW, because the fuel it replaces is much more costly than electricity.
Phil Manke
Phil Manke
June 5, 2012
Hey, John, Havent you heard? Global climate change
John DAngelo
John DAngelo
June 5, 2012
To Solarsaves

1.True , UNLESS a. you produce your own electricity, b. You reduce your electrical usage driving up your cost per kWh. I pulled up a Energy label on a GE HWHP and it takes 155 kWh a month to operate. That is $19 a month (.12/kWh). My pumps I can assure you use far less. Your increase on your $19 will be greater than my increase on my $2/ month to run my power to operate my system.

2. Ok great that heat pumps get a 30% federal tax credit. My system cost me about less than $2000 to install after Federal tax credits and rebates. It also increased the value of my home by about $8,000 where your heat pump didn't increase the value at all because to appraisers it just another hot water heater. I would rather spend money that gets me ahead of the game i.e less dependence on a utility power that only raises rates, not lowers them, even if I have to spend a little more money "upfront".

3. The simplicity of a drain back SDHW heater or a direct in line solar DHW system is far better than your heat pump. Component part will last about 30 years. No filter changing. Warranty on collectors , 10 years, tank warranty Lifetime. You where misinformed. Drawbacks work great in ANY place where it is cold. Just that the SDHW industry is still stuck on "glycol" systems because they make the industry more $.

4. My systems uses far less energy than your heat pump system. read # 1 again.

You se etch saving using hot air heaters. Interesting. You can "afford" SDHW heater! It is your mind that prevents you from doing so and your hang up on ROI. Remember there is NO payback paying energy bills (gas, electric, oil, gasoline). Seems like you know this, yet hold yourself back form doing more. What a shame . You only hurt your pocketbook.
B Sturgis
B Sturgis
June 5, 2012
@john-dangelo-175629

This article is asking What Is Holding Back Solar Hot Water, I posted my example of a cheaper competitor promising equivalent savings as SDHW over electric or gas hot water heaters. Buy at Lowes, install yourself. This IS your SDHW competition.

1. The cost of electricity 5 years from now will be the same to run a hybrid water heater as it is to run the pumps and backup heater for SDHW!
2. Hybrid water heaters did get a 30% tax credit when I installed mine. Don't know about current credits. My $1500 system ended up costing $300, how much does your system end up costing? Granted I installed it myself, add a couple hundred for a plumber to swap out the old and install the new, no roof panels, penetrations or additional plumbing needed. Even without tax credits here's the math: ~$1800 Hybrid VS. ~$3500 SDHW ($5000 - 1500 tax credit)? Energy used difference is negligible. What would you rather spend?
3. Heat pumps are basically air conditioners, while complex, fairly well known technology. It also has a 10 year warranty and I got an 11 year replacement deal paid for by special savings from Lowes when I ordered it. What's the warranty of your SDHW system? How often do you have to service it? I just clean the air filter for the compressor yearly.
You don't do drainback's in Maine, at least that is what I was taught, best to use glycol, but your system could work here, how much does it cost?
4. Your system still has to use electricity for the pumps and backup, which is roughly equivalent to the amount of electricity to run the hybrid heater.
Payback or Return On Investment, isn't going anywhere as it is a measure that people will use to compare SDHW cost against an electric, hybrid, gas or on demand water heater.
The solar hot air system I built and installed cost ~$3000, and by saving me over 400 gallons of fuel oil every year had an ROI of less than 3 years. It continues to save me that amount yearly. I love Solar, can't afford SDHW
Phil Manke
Phil Manke
June 5, 2012
I currently am circulating a petition, I mean SignOn.org is doing it for me, to demand adopting SREC's in Wisconsin to incentivize 'solar energy production'. A state needs an RPS, a solar carve-out, and an SACP to get SREC's rolling. The eastern ststes that have managed a successful SREC program are funding solar energy with 20 to 60 extra cents per KWH production, electric or thermal, whether your Ute does net payback or not.. Do you think that would cover the up front costs of money? Do some figuring. Understand your electric bill. It works! This also does not cost the 'poor government' coffers any money. SRECTrade.com is one site that has info about how it works.
Then, burn-tec power and the profit centers around it will fall away from sheer complication, sickness, and obvious damage.
ivy cada
ivy cada
June 5, 2012
This is very informative. Thank you for sharing.


Renewable Energy News
John DAngelo
John DAngelo
June 2, 2012
John,

A comment on your last paragraph about an electric vehicle. I have now purchased my 4th 100% EV. The 1st was purchased in 1976. The 2nd in 1980, the 3rd in 2011 (a 1980 restoration) and the 4th just a few weeks ago, a Mishibishi MiEV.

There where three main reasons. #1 no better time then NOW to take advantage of the Federal $7,500 tax credit and the $6000 Colorado state tax credit which brings the vehicle price to about $18,000 (if I pay it off sooner than later). #2 Our 5 kW PV array produces on average 800 kWh a month. Our usage is about 250 kWh a month before EV purchase (and still dropping). #3. We where spending about $150-$200 on gasoline (at 3.80/gal) for our Toyota Echo and now we put that money towards our car payment of $375. But the real car payment is really about $150 after you subtract what we are NOT spending that we would have spent before plus there is virtually no maintenance on an EV thus saving even more $. Of course, as the price of gasoline goes back up (which it will) it will get to the point that the fuel savings alone by getting rid of the Toyota Echo will make my car payment!

It was driving me crazy knowing that I was getting only $.027 for each kWh I gave back to the utility when I knew they turn around WITHOUT any real effort on their part and sell it to my neighbor for around $.10 and even back to me (when I would happen to buy some energy from them) at $.16/kWh!

I can say run, don't walk to buy a 100% EV. The choices are exploding. The MiEV fit my needs perfectly and has the highest gasoline mile equivalent on the market today (112 mpge) The tax credits will be gone after a company sells the first 200,000 EV they produce. If the middle east blows up that number could be used up in a heartbeat, if it does not then you can run a little slower!
John Christensen
John Christensen
June 2, 2012
I could not have said it better John D. and of course I have had a system on my roof since 2009 and suspect most on this thread do have some kind of SDHW system as there are so many to choose from on the market today. I've had an 80% calculated PV system since last fall and have yet to pay the local utility since the installation. I feel exactly the same as you and others and look forward to more in-depth conversations like this one in the future on this format. I work for a small business out of Berkeley Springs WV called www.MTVSOLAR.com and we have just been given a small business award for this past year. I will continue to lead the chorus for SDHW for many reasons stated previously but my new goal is to own an electric vehicle in the coming months so that I can use my already installed car charging unit more often. Ain't it great to be a producer? A resounding YES will be heard throughout the land.
John DAngelo
John DAngelo
June 1, 2012
Phil..and others.

I wonder how many actually have a SDHW system on their house. All I can say is that once you get a taste of free energy that any RE system gives you, you start to really see things in a different light. I started using RE systems when I was in my early 20's and have never looked back. Now I have 100% of my electricity come from a PV array and 100% of my hot water come from a combo SDHW system with a PV back up and soon to have 100% of my space heat come from solar thermal system this coming heating season. Life is better when you do not have to pay for a service and your home value increases significantly. I have taken advantage of the local, state and utility rebates which "eased" the financial burden.

The hardest part of choosing renewables has and will continue to the 1st time costs. That is why 3rd party solar sales has skyrocketed and accounts for about 75% of residential sales. No money down, just like a utility company does.

I often wonder what makes my thinking different than most today. Is it because energy is still so cheap for other people? Is it because we are simply creatures of habit and just do what our parents have done and call ti good? Is it because builders build house where energy is really of no concern because the home owner pays the bills? Somehow we have a lot of things wrong and I am not sure of there is a easy answer to all this except that the individual has more power than he/she thinks they do. It is also very hard to compete against with the "monthly utility bill" business model that makes utility executives rich beyond ones wildest dreams.

The tables can be turning on utilities faster than they realize but they need no worry just YET. RE is still a extremely small fraction of utility companies customers. Barely on the radar screen.
Phil Manke
Phil Manke
June 1, 2012
I find that with a usual abundance of heated water I shower more often and nearly for free too. The tank never limes up because the HE is over a wider area. I expect longer tank life. Extra heat from the dump load is sent to the living space since it usually happens in winter. That raises some eyebrows, but in winter there are fewer clear days, but they are clearer than summer hot ones and the sun is 4 Million miles or so, closer to the earth. (Perhelion in early Jan.) And I have CVT collectors so they are relatively unaffected by cold ambient temps, like flatties, and they don't require reinforcements to roof mount= near zero wind load and low weight, so they are mounted to absorb low angle winter sun. Summer is a "gimme". They are very easy for a homeowner to install, too.
Matthew Carlson
Matthew Carlson
June 1, 2012
jbchris - I was only pointing out that the amortized annual cost of a SHW system is likely more than the annual savings when substituting out for nat gas. I agree that we need to factor in externalities like climate change, etc but unfortunately that is not how the system is currently set up.
John Christensen
John Christensen
June 1, 2012
Matt, why on earth would you surmise that SHW does not make economic sense, of course it does as it reduces or eliminates ones dependency on fossil fuels to heat their water. Good to hear that coal is now only 36% of the nations electrical utility producer, heard that today in a congressional hearing, wind was a much higher percentage.
Matthew Carlson
Matthew Carlson
June 1, 2012
To correct two of the assertions made at the outset of the comments:
- "most" of the homes in the US do not use natural gas to heat their water; half do. Without a price on carbon or drastic increase in the price of nat gas, residential solar thermal doesn't make strict economic sense (although plenty of people buy things for other reasons). That leaves a market of 50mm+ homes where the economics do pencil out. I'll take that as an addressable market. As others have pointed out, for the technology to become mass-adopted we need continued reduction in installed costs, financing innovation (eg PACE) and more consumer awareness. See http://www.sunnovations.com/content/case-residential-solar-water-heating-us for additional detail and documentation.
- one of the great things about solar thermal is that it is a storage technology as well. The energy harvested the day prior is used for the next morning's showers. Even accounting for heat losses, there is plenty of energy in the tank the next day as a number of commenters have attested to.
John Christensen
John Christensen
June 1, 2012
I agree with Bill Fitch but if we have to do something in the mean time we have to pick the party that might give us the most reason to be optimistic. What's wrong with a little politics anyway, I think its very relevent until we come up with a different system that is. We can't wait for all the major utilities to wake up and try to take over, that's why its imperative that we emphasize "local power" created on rooftops instead of solar farms with huge transmission projects. I think its funny when someone named annonymous says its too political on here, that's hilarious to me.
William Fitch
William Fitch
June 1, 2012
Hi:

Democrats, republicans, etc.. get real... it is all a puppet show with the red and blue marionettes being controlled by exactly the same puppeteers. Just enough difference is portrayed to make you think you have a real choice that will actually mean something, in short, manufactured HOPE. BECAUSE, when the masses finally WAKE UP! and figure out that there really is no REAL CHOICE, I.E., NO HOPE, guess what happens!! The O&G and other multinationals own the government!! AGAIN, in case I said it to fast, THEY OWN THE GOVERNMENT!! It does not matter who gets to be there, for they have to own you first before you can get into office. O&G etc.., tells the president what to do, who ever he/she is!!
So, take a long hard look in that VERY UNPLEASANT MIRROR. Our own personalized version of , "Hunger Games" is just around the corner... and its color is green, the color of money.

.....Bill
John DAngelo
John DAngelo
June 1, 2012
Until the day we have "no democrats and no republicans" just people that govern for mankind's common good over corporate greed and excessiveness (why do corporate executives have to make 20 million when they are fired? (and the shareholders are silent) then and only maybe will renewables flourish.

In the meantime it will be a battle of who can pass the laws that will help or hinder renewables (any type). But once again corporate greed will prevail in that the utility company of the future will be thus: wind farms and solar farms all over or nation with meters as usual on every building and metering FREE energy that will make utility profits in the future all but guaranteed to outdo even the modest return they now are guaranteed. Will you electro bill go down? Don't bet on it!

So at the end of the day we as individuals have to decide. Do we want the control over our energy future or do we want to do the same old thing we have been doing for over a century and pay the monthly electric bill for a lifetime?

When one installs a SDHW heater, a solar electric array, a wind generator (after they should have become as energy efficient as possible) they take a step in the direction that cannot be revered and takes power and control away from the status quo forever.
Phil Manke
Phil Manke
June 1, 2012
Welcome to the world! It is political because the future is at stake! Those who hold that profits are more important that personal health and well being are making themselves known. Being rich in a land of wasted possibilities is an entirely mortal concept. The ego loves it. If you do not know how to define what is valuable in life you may be easily duped to follow this foolish logic.
ANONYMOUS
June 1, 2012
too much politics here!
John Christensen
John Christensen
June 1, 2012
John Dangelo is correct and to the point, the R's will try to kill renewables and the D's will continue to support them, I don't know about the rest of you but I'm voting Democratic in November. Why does SDHW have to be political? It is common sense but the R's are all about preserving their control over the bottom line with fossil fuels without any regard to the environmental impacts.
John DAngelo
John DAngelo
May 31, 2012
We have been barking up the wrong tree for far to long!

We also need leadership from our government which will be gone should Obama not be reelected and a republican get elected as president. They will try once again to bury RE, they will try, they will fail because the time for solar energy is now becoming "unstoppable" as prices of PV modules continue to fall and are at their historical lows.

Republicans believe that more fossil fuels will bring the cost down. The reality is that the world has an insatiable need for fossil fuels and almost all modern nations are addicted to fossil fuels and the fossil fuel companies and nations suppling the drug know it. Basically they can charge what ever they want and will almost always get it. The more we drill the price has NEVER decreased. How much did you pay for electricity 20 years ago? Gasoline ? If more supply will decrease prices where true, with all the drilling going on now (I believe it is historically high in the USA) the price of gasoline should be going down but has only gone up long term. Sure the price fluctuates but the long term TREND has always been UP, not down.

The price trend of gasoline and electricity has been UP and never DOWN since we started using those fuels on a daily basis. Some of the blame is our worthless paper money. Once an RE system is installed there are NO PRICE increases in the cost of energy because you become disconnected from the "system" of ever increasing prices.
John DAngelo
John DAngelo
May 31, 2012
Peter you are 100% correct. 70-80% efficiency (ST) vs 14-16% efficiency (PV). But what does that REALY mean in the real world? Not a lot. The real world likes glitz and "sexy" and they love the easy button the most of all. Solar electricity is so "sexy" and "easy" compared to solar thermal. Wires vs pipes. Wires win as we all see by the installed MW of PV world wide. Until somehow DSHW becomes "easy" it will always be the little brother in the RE world. That is also the reason wind generators at least when recommended by RE installers.

ALL RE energy is important in that each watt installed and each solar hot water collector installed replaces fossil fuels such as natural gas, coal fired electricity, nuclear power, etc.

That is why I say the terms "payback " has to go. There is NO payback when purchasing electricity from a utility company, natural gas from your natural gas company and propane firm your propane company for those who have no access to inexpensive natural gas. When people finally demand and shun traditional energy source and realize traditional energy sources should be only used as "BACKUP for RE system when necessary.Yet that is how to many people justify putting in a solar system of any type. A 10 year "payback" good to go/ A 15 year forget it. How stupid can we be?

Renewable energy is in a class all by itself. The layman really does not understand that very simple fact and never will as long as we continue using "payback" as an installation criteria.

How about the criers such as "clean" "non polluting" "more jobs" "last a lifetime" " noise pollution" "total recyclable" "no fuel costs" "Little if no visual pollution" (0n site energy not solar farms and wind farms) "no price increases" "no price swings" "no national security needed". Do we get it now? I do and have since I started selling relabels 40 years ago.
Peter Nuspl
Peter Nuspl
May 31, 2012
I have not read all 35 comments, but quite a few miss the important point: Solar heat can be collected at up to 80% efficiency; Solar power is now at about 16% and could reach 22%; even wind power efficiency is higher than solar PV.
All collectors should be installed to get the most efficient collection: best tilt angles, adjustable mounts; in special cases we should use elevation tracking, azimuth tracking, As/El tracking.
Raina Russo
Raina Russo
May 31, 2012
Thanks Jennifer for this article. Many components can add or detract from SHW success; proper training & licensing, technology, state incentives, good marketing & public awareness as well as the price of gas to name a few.

I invite you all to participate in an upcoming #SolarChat (June 13th at 2pm EST on Twitter) where we plan on coming together and tackling these issues in a brainstorming hour long debate.

Please join us! Here's the invite to RSVP: http://solarchat-061312-eorg.eventbrite.com/
William Fitch
William Fitch
May 30, 2012
Hi:

Heat pump water heaters will very on how well they work depending on the installation location. The perfect location is in a non conditioned humid basement that normally has a dehumidifier running. The HP water heater will eliminate the dehunidifier and not rob Peter to pay Paul in the Winter time. Worst case location is in a finished conditioned basement. The only benefit is in Summer where it will help out the basement AC a bit... So, sometimes they can be a Win, Win, and sometimes not... Most properly sized and installed SDHW's can yield a 90+% delivery for the DHW load, so backup is really not a big deal... whatever is easiest and cheapest on the front end...

.....Bill
George Reynoldson
George Reynoldson
May 30, 2012
Simply put, #32, "the payback crap has to go." It is energy logic only Gracie Allen and Fred Koch would have appreciated. :)
John DAngelo
John DAngelo
May 30, 2012
To solarsaves:

1.What will electricity cost 5 years from now?
2. There is no 30% federal tax credit on your $1500 "investment" as there is with the purchase of a SDHW heater
3. A heat pump is very complex compared to a DRAIN BACK solar hot water heater. A drain back SDHW heater or an in line SDHW system is by far simpler than a heat pump.
4. The fuel is FREE with a SDHW heater and your fuel will never be free using a heat pump. You fuel cost will only go up while your reliability goes down. Solar pumps if sized properly can last up to 20 years. Who long will your heat pump last? The price to heat your hot water will only go up as long as you purchase electricity from a utility company.

I have been in the SDHW business for over 30 years. The drain back system is the system we prefer because of its simplicity and virtually NO maintenance. We like using the Marathon lifetime plastic tanks for our back ups. Here in Colorado we use our own 2 flat panel (4 x 10, 85 Gallon solar tank with 50 Gallon primary Marathon tank) SDHW system and the normal back up where we use electricity is about 1 week a year. Other locations will vary.

The "payback" crap has to go. One needs to realize that there is NO payback using fossil fuels to heat one's water. You only have "payback" when you own something and no one owns the utility company as they are just paying for a service.

Sometimes heating your DHW with electricity as a back up makes sense but in most cases natural gas is the least expensive option because it is the least cost per MMBTU to purchase. In fact the usual option for back up should always be the least cost in MMBTU. But it is not always that simple. IF you happen to be grid tied with a solar system and you have excess electricity then electric back up may be the way to go.
George Reynoldson
George Reynoldson
May 30, 2012
Not sure if you read #29, SolarSpies, but your "black eye" metaphor is perfect to describe an industry unable to thrive in a 32-year political atmosphere where it has be continuously knocked about by energy funded politics. In my opinion the bad reputation from the '80s is mostly because SHW manufacturing development was prematurely interrupted... maybe only two to three years before it could have gotten its act together.

At the time, many solar business people and advocates were saying that the loss of the solar learning curve would eventually prove to be a US national security threat... something I think we are only starting to become aware of again now despite a differing view by our current political establishment.
Jeffrey Spies
Jeffrey Spies
May 30, 2012
Question: What Is Holding Back Solar Hot Water in the US?

Answer: The bad reputation that was earned in the 80's with poor quality solar heating installs. Most of this problem was brought on by poorly conceived incentives that only incentivized installs, but gave little/no consideration to adaquate design and performance.

Sadly, current PV incentives have much in common with the 80's era solar thermal installs. We reward installations for initial system size, but little/no reward for good performance and long life.

The question for PV is how big, bad, and long lasting the black eye will be?
George Reynoldson
George Reynoldson
May 30, 2012
Please forgive this rant, BUT, our government dependency, DOE and Pentagon hydrocarbon and nuclear hegemonic bureaucrats, entropy ignorant politicians, reality TV- style elections debates, energy-monied PR machines sponsoring Sunday morning interviews and political news "analysis", and solar hot water marketing strategies that after 35 years still cannot get beyond tax-credit driven "marketing" plans (solar entrepreneur entrapment "carrots")! THAT! IS WHAT IS HOLDING US SOLAR HOT WATER BACK!

Despite tech-improvements, today's public disinterest in solar water and its political belittlement is largely due to the fact that tax incentives since 1981 have continuously undermined creative solar marketing. After all, in a level INFORMATION PLAYING FIELD shouldn't a 3-10 year payback and another free 20 years of hot water be a "piece of cake" for just about any legitimate solar water salesman with a price competitive and fully guaranteed product? Heck, in 1980, many thought we could market solar so easily that SHW (like GFI plugs and bath exhaust fans) would be in building codes within 5 years while conservation was then an evolving ethic.

A research comparison of China's 5000 year energy (as in food) intensification cultural ethic with our own energy attitudes and policies might reveal meaningful clues as to why the 2011 solar thermal scorecard shows +100GW for China and perhaps 3 GW for the USA. Though unbelievable to today's FaceBook generation, America once HAD a 10-year solar tech-lead on the rest of the world. For why only HAD, see pp 1 above.

That advantage was lost within months of the solar tax credit repeal when the whole bankrupted industry found it unable to maintain and guarantee it product. THUS, Jennifer, does this rant help explain why your dad had so much trouble with product reliability and finally had to give up in 2000.

Conservation ethics and creative marketing count!
Pete Mokler
Pete Mokler
May 30, 2012
We've solved this riddle. See our hard-freeze tolerant collector at www.sunvelope.com. No heat exchangers, glycol or drainback. Direct configurations. Simple installations using a standard tank water heater.

We're big on simple stuff that works.
John Christensen
John Christensen
May 30, 2012
I like Rick and Don's comments about the evolution of the SHW industry and how it could be improved to include more applications, Velux is a German company doing business in the USA now and is a leader in their field. Jobs, Jobs, and more jobs are to be had when the US finally gets their act together and stops being the protector of everything fossil.
Don Koza
Don Koza
May 30, 2012
I remember when people bought components from The Whole Earth Catalogue and made the system themselves. In order to save money, many people started out small and undersized their collector box. Most people used wood and lined the box with black tarpaper to trap the heat for the coils to absorb. Unfortunately the wood dried out and caught fire due to the heat in the box. Not only were the homemade units unreliable, but many were unsafe as well. It's good to see that professional quality, safe, guaranteed-savings systems are now available, at least for commercial systems. Perhaps similar professional, safe, and reasonably priced home-kits or guaranteed-savings installations will be available for individual home owners soon. A KW-hr here, a KW-hr there, pretty soon MW-hrs are saved.
Rick Bolen
Rick Bolen
May 30, 2012
Went to Intersolar (Germany) '05 & '06 and was blown away by the product integration, design refinement and industry maturity for SHW systems from dozens (scores?) of manufacturers. Most US customers still lack access to this "maturity of marketplace". SHW systems here are most often cobbled, not integrated. To really get the bang-for-buck [in the southern US], to really harness the 70% efficiency over the 20% of PV, we need a technology to scale systems larger so we can increase seasonal utilization to include space heating support in winter and AC cooling in summer. Integration.
bruce gladstone
bruce gladstone
May 30, 2012
Why not just get an electric tankless water heater along with your home PV system, and call it a day? I'm not saying the tech above isn't worthwhile, but this seems worth mentioning. I was checking out the models, and there are plenty that can handle 2 showers at the same time. They are not cheap, but seem like an alternative. Sorry if someone already mentioned this.
John Christensen
John Christensen
May 30, 2012
I like SHW systems and believe that Velux has the best on the market right now. The payback period in WV is about 3 yrs ( with DC SRECS of course) and if you put a timer on the tank mainly for the winter months you won't be heating up a tank during cold cloudy winter days. The Velux system is a little pricey but we all know you get what you pay for. There are many BTU's to be gained with this efficient technology, I'd like to see more installs utilizing this no-brainer technology but the state govts. must step up to do more for improving the SREC markets so that the payback period is shortened.
B Sturgis
B Sturgis
May 29, 2012
It is the cost that is prohibative. Here in Maine, the cost of a system is over $4000, if I install it myself. I took the state provided training and was a Certified Solar Installer. 2 years ago I bought a GE Hybrid Hot water heater listing for $1500 from Lowes, with state and federal incentives it cost less than $300 (great timing on my part - incentives aren't as good now). About the cost for a regular electric hot water heater. The savings to my electric bill were roughly equivalent to the electricity savings promised by Solar Hot Water system with fewer components and less upkeep, no glycol...

First month's electric bill dropped roughly by 1/3, from $190 to less than $130. Even without incentives, the Return On Investment is less than 2 years. Hybrid water heaters provide a lower initial cost, similar savings, and a quicker ROI. It is hard to compete with replacing a hot water heater for $1500, vs installing a SHW system for $4000 - $6000, with similar electricity savings.
Phil Manke
Phil Manke
May 29, 2012
Thanks, Jennifer. Look forward to some remedies for SDHW implementations. I am amazed at how much mis-info still persists. Many have such poor partial experience to determine from. My offerings have evolved to CVT collectors, based on cold season performance. It's not too difficult to get SHW in warm seasons, but CVT's are relatively un-affected in the cold. Also, a larger storage tank must be the norm because of little to variable sun in winter. The tank is the storage flywheel. CVT collectors must be more upright and clear of roofs for snow freedom. Optimizing solar gain requires dump load provision. These are the main facets that I see many installations overlook.
Bottom line is, we get 98% of our DHW from solar in a northern state, and have for six years. The system is paid for in comparison to FF or electric. That system hardware cost is currently at about 2K plus the tank or HE you choose.
Patrick O'Leary
Patrick O'Leary
May 29, 2012
Sorry to hear that another solar system has been removed, and glad to hear that others have been installed. Futura Solar is focused on a 'multiple solar benefit' Sawtooth roofing system that brings daylight to the factory floor, captures the solar loading as Process hot air (with incidental space conditioning) and still has room for PV, SWH or PV/Thermal. Combining benefits will work as well on the roof as it has on the desk top, next to the PC.
William Fitch
William Fitch
May 29, 2012
Hi:

The main reason SDHW has not taken off in the USA is people, not tech or money. They rather spend 35 to 40K on a 5000 LB SUV that will keep sucking from them, all to keep up with the Jones's, rather than spend 5 to 7K on something that has a return no matter how long or short. All on site systems, PV, SDHW, HVAC, NG, oil, propane, wood, have issues sooner or later. There is no such thing as a full blown energy system with zero maintenance or total invulnerbilty to all environmental mishaps. Any system that is outdoors will sooner or later get nailed by nature. It is just simple fact. Like cars can have themselves smashed to pieces by a big hail storm, etc.. It is the people's expectation balanced against the perceived benefit and some good or bad luck thrown in that sets their 'happiness level' regarding the system. SDHW can fail with leaks and electricity where as PV failures are limited to elect. Plumbing just by nature is harder than wiring in terms of the 'doing', bureaucratic requirements aside. The biggest factor though, with all the smoke and mirrors laid to rest, is that people by the numbers, just don't care enough about their hot water expense or the environmental impact of conventional energy sources. They are more concerned with being 'cool'. Very sad but true....

.....Bill
Fred Greenhalgh
Fred Greenhalgh
May 29, 2012
+1 to kfenske comment about SHW in the developing world - in a recent trip to South Africa you see these simple 'tank on the roof' systems EVERYWHERE but hardly any PV (except off grid) as the grid just can't handle it. One nation's 'expensive' is another places 'incredible value that can't be beat.'

I guess it depends on available local energy. Here in Northern New England, NG is fairly rare and there are some 500,000 oil boilers out there, many of them carrying the DHW load. In this situations you have a high-mass, inefficient boiler running all summer. Switching to a solar option saves hundreds of gallons of oil for these customers, for a ROI in 7 years or less (Maine and NH also have great state rebate programs, so that helps).

SHW is also great for customers who heat predominantly with wood, many will use wood for comfort heating in the winter, with oil as backup for heat and DHW, and in the summer that oil boiler goes dormant (in 'cold start' mode). The result is that the old boiler which was primary heating prior to wood/solar is now a seldom used backup appliance... quite a win!
ian IANSINCLAIR
ian IANSINCLAIR
May 29, 2012
Good luck to Skyline but having lived and died with a predecessor with the same business model- Mondial Energy - I can state with reasonable certainty that there will be trouble ahead for their model. As one reader states the low natural gas price is a killer, so focus on electrically heated hot water, high insolation (go to Hawaii) and where the tax credits/incentives are heavy. When the sun really comes out in the summer first of all everyone goes on vacation and so energy usage drops - the tank is hot but no one is at home, and secondly again as the sun gets hot so does the DCW whose temperature tracks air temperature with a lag of a few weeks. That means 'cold water' at 70F even here in Toronto north of your border. There goes another chunk of your load. And who takes a hot shower in July? My own metered system offsets $36 in gas per year for a family of three - two collectors, plenty of storage, 5 years of consistent data, 750 ekWh per collector per year (you'll get >2,000 commercially). Commercially costs are driven principally by the non-solar components: structual, roof penetrations, plumbing piping, controls. Collectors will be 25% or less of the cost so there's no PV-driven cost reduction to c0me to the rescue. Good luck but until fracking is banned and natural gas prices rebound this is limited to high insolation/highly incented locations.
ANONYMOUS
May 29, 2012
I've used solar domestic hot water in central Kentucky for over three years. Melvin-Junko is correct about payback here, plan on 10 years. He is dead wrong about how well newer systems work. With one 4x8 flat plate collector, we have all the hot water a working couple could ever use in the warmer months (about mid April - mid November). I shower every evening, my spouse every morning. We are in a 100% electric home. We turn off the breaker to the heating element every spring, and I know very well when the water becomes "luke warm" in the fall.

Flat plate collector efficiency is about 70%, PV efficiency is in the 20% range. I don't believe that PV will ever be the best option for heating water, even with heat pump water heaters. I could see PV and heat pump DHW usage in the winter time, when PV efficiency increases due to cooler temps and flat plate collectors loose more heat to the atmosphere, but then again, the heat pump is taking heat from the house to heat the water.

To sum this up, Solar DHW works well, it works today, and there really is the possibility of payback, even with the cheap Kentucky electric tariff. The problem is the upfront cost. Most people don't understand how to calculate payback of the device. Most people don't have a clue what they pay per kWh for electricity! Sure, they can read the bill and see that it's $.0645 a kWh, plus enough taxes and fees to make it nearly $.10 a kWh. What does that have to do with my water heater? It's simple for those of us in the electricity business (in my case as an engineer that operates a 1 MW ERP UHF transmitter and corresponding $12K a month electric bill), but not so easy for anyone outside this business, even if they are an accountant. When the solar hot water installer describes the BPHE and pumps and glycol, I say, "sure, I maintain those devices at work! Education is the key to wider acceptance of these systems.
Ken Fenske
Ken Fenske
May 29, 2012
Solar hot water seems like a slam-dunk. Heating water with the sun is simple and low tech. Throughout the developing world you see black tanks on roofs for this purpose. The problem in the northeast US is twofold. 1. Since we freeze the system needs to be a much more complex two loop system and the plumbing & control equipment becomes more complex and expensive. 2. I heat my hot water with a high-efficiency gas boiler so the cost is less than a dollar a day and this is hard to compete with.
I'll make a third point as well, solar will become affordable when the homeowner can get it at Home Depot and install it in a weekend. While this is conceivable with AC PV, this will never be the case with solar hot water since it requires plumbing skills most homeowners do not possess.
daniel arguelles
daniel arguelles
May 29, 2012
Jigar,

Here is one such roof that structure supports both solar thermal and solar Pv. It can eliminate BOS costs and penetrations. Solar thermal in the first video is invisible because its below the larger metal pans supporting the solar. Incidentally the temperature there is greater. The second video shows the infrastructure before roof tile installation. Its really quite straight forward.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JQikxYPU7g

The system was completly approved by Miami Dade County, probably the most strict government AHJ around...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jr8v5jil7w&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Dan
Alexis Greene
Alexis Greene
May 29, 2012
Here in New York City, Community Environmental Center, which installs Solar Thermal Systems, is a great believer in this approach to heating hot water, so long as the building is of low to moderate height (running pipe from the roof to the basement can be expensive). But what really runs the cost up for existing buildings, according to the solar thermal system designers we work with, is dealing with NYC permits. There's also the delivery cost: having to import panels (whether from California or Europe), because there is no local manufacturer. Not yet anyway.
Alexis Greene
Craig Marlowe
Craig Marlowe
May 29, 2012
The fundamental reason solar water heating is not being adopted in the US can be traced more to the industry and the unrealistic retail prices that are required to support the door to door vacuum cleaner business model.

My supporting arguments can be found at:
http://dialogue.usaee.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=169:marlowe&catid=52:volume-20-number-2
Jigar Shah
Jigar Shah
May 29, 2012
Right, but be careful what you are purporting. THe only way to get a 30% tax credit on the new roof is its primary function to provide support for the solar thermal systems. In general I have been less than impressed with integrated systems, all the way back to SIT.
daniel arguelles
daniel arguelles
May 29, 2012
Jigar'

"A new roof can leverage the 30% federal tax credit over the whole investment if integrated with either solar pv or solar thermal. Think about it.....no penetrations, no ugly appendage...no leaks..."

and you can provide a warranty for a whole roof solution. A roof provides waterproofing and protection from the elements and solar is just an important facet but its still just a facet...

Dan
Jigar Shah
Jigar Shah
May 29, 2012
The key to this story is that Skyline has adopted the SunEdison model. They are selling zero upfront cost solar thermal systems for commercial customers where solar thermal makes economic sense. They have closed a $30MM fund with Washington Gas.
daniel arguelles
daniel arguelles
May 29, 2012
All you need to do is integrate $150.00 worth of Pex Al Pex in your roof as suggested by the study from FSEC funded by the NREL:


http://www.builditsolar.com/Experimental/RISAPaper_SolarForum2001.pdf

500 ft. of invisible "solar integrated roof absorber" tubing (R.I.S.A.) could generate all the domestic hot water you want for free. This study was done over 10 years ago! Here is one such integration in a hybrid barrel tile roof:

http://issuu.com/artezanos/docs/artezanos_hybrid

A new roof can leverage the 30% federal tax credit over the whole investment if integrated with either solar pv or solar thermal. Think about it.....no penetrations, no ugly appendage...no leaks...


Dan
Salim Mehmud
Salim Mehmud
May 29, 2012
My continuous long experience of solar water direct heating has been that it is unreliable, requires conventional heating systems like boilers in place just when the sky is overcast or the temperatures are not reached or one needs more quantity of hot water than is the yield of the plant. For industrial heating applications, the solar heating plant is very heavy, may even add few hundred tons to the ceiling which structurally may not be advisable, makes general maintenance of the rooftop difficult, and the return on investment may require six or more years. So I consider that short of very limited domestic applications that may not be very stringent, the industrial or large scale use of solar water heating is not cost-economical and more of a hype than reality.

Salim Mehmud
JUSTIN NEEDHAM
JUSTIN NEEDHAM
May 29, 2012
It's a shame that some possibly poor installs gave the fantastic and very simple system a bad name. I also think it's a shame that people like Melvin-junko should promulgate this as fact affecting the concept. - Perhaps not without reason, because there have been shockingly bad installs about, but progress is made incrementally. Let's not tarnish the potential with old problems.

Have I got glycol, in my veins? I really hope not. I live in cool UK, and for a family of three we generate 100% of our domestic hot water from the sun between the first week in March and the last week in October.

Outside this period, the solar probably halves the energy we use for hot water, heating it up to perhaps 30C from arrival at maybe 12-13C.

Some lifestyle adjustment is necessary, and when fishing for the last drop of energy at season ends (eg early March/late October) it can become a bit of a game. But so what? With so many peoples fossil-fuelled lives utterly detached from the real world these days I see this as no bad thing. During the cross-over indeed it might not be possible to have a morning shower without burning gas. That's your choice.

Importantly it's also necessary to modify (ie frig) your shower valve system to accept hot incoming down to 40C. This caters for the semi-cloudy March and October days or long runs of gloomy weather. Sadly very few installers will make this very practical and hugely beneficial change, and most standard shower valves will automatically mix in a minimum proportion of cold (so-called safety reasons). I beleive this issue is a large part of previous bad-press, yet has no bearing on the real potential of solar thermal. Thus a 250 Litre tank of water at 40C in March, for many installs still very stupidly needs additional heat to 60C despite the fact that your shower could be lovely and hot, and all domestic use would be fine at at 36-38C.

If only the installers thought about the problem a little deeper.
Branislav Kecman
Branislav Kecman
May 29, 2012
Nice to hear about the comback. I've been looking for someone to install a solar domestic water heater on my house ever since my PV contractor who promised to do it went out of business. I contacted several other companies, large and small, but haven't had any takers yet. Any recommendation for a reliable solar water heater contractor in Los Angeles area (Altadena) would be appreciated. I'm about to replace my old gas water heater in the attic with a tankless unit and would like to have the solar one integrated before too long. I will contact Skyline as well, thanks for the tip!
Tom Lyons
Tom Lyons
May 28, 2012
solar hot water should be a no brainer , since most water heaters are heater with gas which is pretty inexpensive , this would mean a agas solar water heater needs to be low cost.
http://www.sunriseenergynow.com
http://www.reflectgreen.com
Melvin Junko
Melvin Junko
May 28, 2012
There are two problems with residential solar hot water. First, most people heat their water with gas, which is cheap (people with propane or electric heaters have better economics). So the payback for a system is typically 10+ years. Moreover, the monthly savings are somewhat "trivial", leading people to conclude it is not worth the bother to find a vendor, install a system on your roof and deal with future maintenance problems.

The second problem is that most of the hot water is available later in the day. So if you take a shower in the morning, you are unlikely to have much available hot water.

Of course, in countries where hot water use is more expensive, a more significant portion of the monthly utility bill, or people don't bath as often — solar hot water systems are more compelling.

Technology for solar hot water is unlikely to change dramatically — so it won't get much cheaper. PV system prices continue to decline, leading many people to conclude that it will be cheaper to heat your hot water with PV electricity than with a solar thermal system.

I fully expect to get flamed by people with glycol in their veins — but these are the economic realities that limit solar thermal systems.
Howard Harrison
Howard Harrison
May 26, 2012
When I got interested in solar hot water it was before the government incentives started, I dallied too long and the incentives started. I noticed the average system price doubled, if not more, and I got turned off.

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Jennifer Runyon

Jennifer Runyon

Jennifer Runyon is managing editor of RenewableEnergyWorld.com coordinating, writing and/or editing columns, features, news stories and blogs for the publications. She also serves as conference chair of Solar Power-Gen Conference and Exhibition...
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