Profile Network Activity Comments Articles Blog Bookmarks
 

Solar Trade Dispute: What Is the U.S. Thinking?

By David Toke
December 7, 2011   |   11 Comments

Do you like this blog post?

Email   Bookmark Bookmark   Print   Share
 

The information and views expressed in this blog post are solely those of the author and not necessarily those of RenewableEnergyWorld.com or the companies that advertise on this Web site and other publications. This blog was posted directly by the author and was not reviewed for accuracy, spelling or grammar.

11 Reader Comments
Comment
1 of 11
December 8, 2011
This author does not hold an accurate perspective of the problem or issues. There are a list of reasons why Chinese panels are less expensive than US manufactured panels, but at the top is the cost of the raw materials necessary to manufacture these panels. Since the US is no longer mining, milling and refining these raw minerals including rare earths, we have to purchase from China. However, the Chinese mineral producers within the past year have all been nationalized. It should be no surprise that the Chinese solar panel, wind turbine and electronics manufacturers are paying one price for these minerals while the US manufacturers are paying a significantly higher price.

The real solution to this issue is for the US to start mining, milling and refining at large scale again and ASAP so we can supply the necessary raw materials to our own manufacturing.

I have been presenting this position formally to Sierra Club Execs for over 2 years and they continue to be in denial. If environmentalists want to support the manufacture of renewable technologies, they need to embrace mining at very large scale.
Comment
2 of 11
December 8, 2011
The squeaky wheel gets the grease when you employ lobbyist to cry wolf. This is the first time in History Solar PV has reached an affordable level.Integrators have been hiring Anyone with experience to grab a piece of the growing PV market. Now what? Import tariffs? WHO is really behind this?
Comment
3 of 11
December 8, 2011
What about the Chinese government subsidizing the manufacturing end while we subsidize the purchase, if purchased by a taxable entity! This way the chinese panels get subsidized twice. Also what about the chinese not allowing their currency to be correctly valued? They are forcing the value of the juan down making it falsely cheap for us to buy their panels while it makes it more expensive for them to buy our panels? Are we just to sit back and allow them to destroy yet another US industry by ignoring international trade laws??? What about the chinese refusing to honor patent laws??? What about china being the world leader in corporate espionage, stealing our manufacturing intellectual property??? I could go on and on and on as to why this is the correct thing for us to do, but the author's blind need to see solar promoted, regardless of the cost, would make it a waste of my time.
Comment
4 of 11
December 8, 2011
David Toke might be making some sense if we conveniently forget that Chinese workers wages are in the 20 cent an hour range, their pollution standards are practically non-existent and we need a solar panel manufacturing base to create maybe 250,000 American jobs.

This industry needs to be sustainable and we need to get our trade deficit under control. There are a whole lot of other reasons to go along with the issues I just mentioned, but here are a couple more.

America is subsidizing solar installations at a rate of over $1.20 per watt and the difference between the cost of Chinese and American solar panels per watt is less than 25 cents. (that 25 cents can easily be explained with 25 cent an hour wages and lax pollution standards).

Maybe this clown (that is probably making over $150,000 a year as a professor) thinks we should be building solar panels in prisons to drive the cost down but I don't believe this and neither does most of the rest of America.

If David Toke had a good systems analysis background, he could figure out that trade deficits, a stable manufacturing base, federal budget deficits and a stable economy in America are all related.

On the other hand, maybe his pension is invested in Chinese manufacturing and he is protecting his investment.
No image available
Comment
5 of 11
Anonymous
December 8, 2011
Hawkster; you spew distorted info like the other mindless tea party hate and fear grinders.
Did you ever consider why the Chinese economy is growing so fast while our govt sends ships to the south pacific basin. Your mentality and hatred of others exemplifies the militaristic mindset of our over-investment in military nightmares. Wisdom is never enhanced by physical strength, wealth, or aggression. The fear that people who think like you espouse will never grant you yours.
Comment
6 of 11
December 8, 2011
Anonymous - What the hell are you babbling about? "Militaristic mindset"? Hawkster may have come on a little strong but at least he kept the conversation on focus. Put the pipe down, you yahoo. What we need here is civilized dialogue, you stupid turd-monkey.
That being said, anonymous, Tea Party rhetoric has nothing to do with all the red flags you read about China recently. China has been purposely devalueing its currency for years, but only in light of the recent recession/depression is anyone giving a shit. China's national policy has been to dump its goods (solar panels, children's toys, clothing, whatever) on the international market and kill off general industry in various countries around the world. That's how they became Numero Uno in worldwide manufacturing. The USA, being THE consumer market, was Target #1 in China's eyes.
If it wasn't for the greedheads on Wall Street and in the boardrooms, we wouldn't be in the mess we are today. All they saw was cheap labor and a quick buck. That's one more thing you can thank fucking Wal-Mart for.
And, as stated above, let's not forget China's lax safety, environmental, and labor policies in regards to its own people. If you think China is so goddmann generous, try working in one of their coal mines for a while.
No image available
Comment
7 of 11
Anonymous
December 9, 2011
Know allot about the tea party, do yah? Your "facts" embrace the same tactic as theirs.
Being focused on illusions is still the cultivation of ignorance and it is called stupidity. If someone never questions their belief structures, they spend their lives in a prison of their own mind. Anger is madness, and has the same effects as all illusions. They affect the mind that believes they are real.
Comment
8 of 11
December 9, 2011
Note re: new IT commission member...

DAVID S. JOHANSON SWORN IN AS U.S. INTERNATIONAL TRADE COMMISSIONER

David S. Johanson, a Republican of Texas, was sworn in today as a Commissioner of the U.S. International Trade Commission. He was confirmed by the U.S. Senate on October 31, 2011, for the term expiring on December 16, 2018.

Commissioner Johanson served as International Trade Counsel on the Republican staff of the Committee on Finance of the U.S. Senate from 2003 until his appointment. Prior to his employment at the Committee on Finance, he practiced international trade law for six years at the law firm of Stewart and Stewart in Washington, D.C. Earlier in his career, Commissioner Johanson worked for Senator Phil Gramm (R-TX), Representative Wally Herger (R-CA), and Representative George Radanovich (R-CA).

Does this mean more (political) protection of the oil company grip on the American consumer's throat via higher solar prices??? Doesn't this smell like the same stink that came from the BLM - Goldman Sachs Wall Street solar farm fiasco in Nevada??
No image available
Comment
9 of 11
Anonymous
December 9, 2011
3-5 major solar module manufacturing facilities in america could potentially make the 2 to 3 GWatts needed for the USA installations. How many jobs are created around this (permanent jobs)? Lets say 2500 max. Double it if you like to 5000. So we save 2500-5000 permanent jobs...great. But inevitably the price will be higher for those modules produced. So demand will go down since price is too high for many consumers. So reduce the production thus reduce the jobs for production so now maybe were at 1500-3000 jobs for manufacturing.
How many jobs are available to people who install, design, make racking, inverters, etc...or all those who are BOS (balance of system people). My guess more than 100,000. So we trade 2500 for 50,000 (if we drop demand by half). Tell me does this make sense? Should we make ipods in the USA? Will anyone buy one for 1000USD? Maybe not so much.

Long term, long term, long term. USA will eventually come up with a way to make solar products at a better price. I think this problem will spark innovation (if we don't impose duties). Protectionism will spark weakness and laziness.

Yes the whole situation isn't fair and never will be. Both sides are doing things that hurt one another. We must understand middle ground, something the USA gov't can't do well.

Simple Solution....? Give a credit to those who use USA made modules in their systems. So simple. Lets reward people for good behavior if thats what it takes.
Comment
10 of 11
December 9, 2011
We see these numbers of US solar capacity production in the 3 to 5 GW range. This number can easily be off base by over 10 GW.

I'm from San Bernardino County in California and had the opportunity to work with the county developing renewable energy policy. I left there 18 months ago and the county had over 12 GW of solar in their planning department. PGE through political manipulation is throwing roadblocks in the way, but this is one county in Southern California and Southern California's future solar demand could easily accommodate 25 to 30 Gig.

The Ivanpah project in northern San Bernardino County is a 2 Gig project under development right now. Anyone claiming solar in America is 3 to 5 gig in the future does not have a clue.

One additional comment, the cost difference between American and Chinese panels is less than 25 cents a watt and subsidies are $1.25 a watt.
No image available
Comment
11 of 11
Anonymous
December 13, 2011
@ douglas-prince-175356,

Sure, it's all China's fault. We're certainly not devaluing our currency by printing $2 Trillion over the last couple of years. Literally 40% of the $4 billion we spend every day is with the printing press. China didn't do this to us, we did it to ourselves with our stupid fat citizenry, our free trade-promoting politicians, and our crooked banks.
Add Your Comment

Registered users, please make sure to Sign-In. We and others want to know your ideas and opinions. If you are not yet Registered -- it's quick and easy. Just click below.
Thanks!

Register Now   Sign-In

David Toke

View David Toke's Profile
About: Dr David Toke is Senior Lecturer in Energy Policy in the Department of Political Science and International Studies in the University of Birmingham (UK). He was ... more »

Advertise With Us

Helios Solar Works Schüco Alpha Technologies Talesun Solar Prudent Living, Inc. Schletter Inc. Brightergy
World's #1 Renewable Energy Network
PennWell
Renewable Energy World Magazine International Renewable Energy World Conference & Expo North America Renewable Energy World Conference & Expo Europe Renewable Energy World Conference & Expo Asia Renewable Energy World Conference & Expo India Renewable Energy World Conference & Expo Africa
RenewableEnergyWorld.com Solar Power Gen Conference & Expo Hydro Review Magazine Hydro Review World Magazine
HydroVision International HydroVision Brazil HydroVision India HydroVision Russia
Twitter Facebook Linked In RSS Feeds e-Newsletters