The World's #1 Renewable Energy Network for News & Information
Sign In or Register
Renewable Energy World Logo
Wednesday, May 22, 2013
  • Sections
    • Home
      • News
      • Opinion & Commentary
      • Featured Blogs
      • Research & Reports
      • Video
      • Press Releases
      • All Blogs
      • Events
      • Products
      • Finance
    • Solar
      • News
      • Opinion & Commentary
      • Featured Blogs
      • Research & Reports
      • Video
      • Press Releases
      • All Blogs
      • Events
      • Products
      • Finance
    • Wind
      • News
      • Opinion & Commentary
      • Featured Blogs
      • Research & Reports
      • Video
      • Press Releases
      • All Blogs
      • Events
      • Products
      • Finance
    • Geothermal
      • News
      • Opinion & Commentary
      • Featured Blogs
      • Research & Reports
      • Video
      • Press Releases
      • All Blogs
      • Events
      • Products
      • Finance
    • Bio
      • News
      • Opinion & Commentary
      • Featured Blogs
      • Research & Reports
      • Video
      • Press Releases
      • All Blogs
      • Events
      • Products
      • Finance
    • Hydro
      • News
      • Opinion & Commentary
      • Featured Blogs
      • Research & Reports
      • Video
      • Press Releases
      • All Blogs
      • Events
      • Products
      • Finance
    • Careers
    • Companies
      • Company Directory
      • Press Releases
      • Products
      • Events Calendar
      • White Papers
    • Webcasts
      • Upcoming Webcasts
      • Featured Webcasts
      • Archived Webcasts
      • Events Calendar
    • White Papers
    • Magazines
      • Renewable Energy World
      • Wind Technology
      • Large Scale Solar
      • Hydro Review
      • HRW - Hydro Review Worldwide
      • Renewable Energy World (North America Edition)
      • Photovoltaics World
    • Awards
  • Account
    • Sign In
    • Register
  • Search
Don't Miss The Great Solar Debate: Where Does the Global Solar Industry Stand? ×

After Solyndra and Evergreen, Welcome to the Age of Solar PV Commoditization (And 5 Things You Can Do About It)

Tor 'Solar Fred' Valenza
September 13, 2011  |  30 Comments

It’s official. With the bankruptcies of Solyndra and Evergreen, two solar panel companies with unique premium solar PV technologies, the Market — with a capital M — hath spoken: “Solar PV manufacturers, we, the purchasers of solar PV, do hereby care more about price than any fancy innovation. Just give us the best quality panel for the lowest $/watt, thank you very much.”

String ribbon doesn’t matter. Cylindrical CIGS film doesn’t matter. Even made in America doesn’t matter unless it's at a competitive price.

Apparently, all the Market wants to know are the basics:

  • Is it solar PV? You know, electrons, the photovoltaic effect, hooked to an inverter? Cool.
  • Are you backed by some bank that I’ve heard of? A government’s bank is fine. Yes? Excellent. My bank is now happy and will approve my loan. Merci.
  • How much? Is that your final answer? I’ll get back to you.

Naturally, this is an over simplification. I would add that I believe there are tiers of commoditization today. Name brands on the stock market that are deemed “bankable” by the grace and due diligence of some large or government-run bank will command the highest prices, but not much higher over brands you’ve never heard of and backed by unknown banks. Have a lot of space? Lower efficiency thin films will also be commodiitized in its own tier.

In short, low $/watt price, financial confidence, and long term viability are now the default prerequisites for volume global sales. That’s great for solar installers and making solar PV more affordable and price competitive with fossil fuels, but what about the solar PV manufacturers?

Without any breakthrough manufacturing innovations, Solar PV companies may have to survive on loans and thin profit margins in order to survive what's bound to be a year or two or three or longer of industry consolidation. (Another solution may be mergers and acquisitions, but hush! Let's not go there for now.)

So the end of Solyndra and Evergreen have unveiled the age solar PV commoditization. Now what? How will solar PV companies compete and profit when the market price goes down below a buck/watt? Will panels one day be moved to the Chicago commodities exchange alongside pork bellies, oranges, and wheat?

No. That will never be the case for many reasons, but sad to say, PV companies have not been able to make the case — within market tiers — that their brand matters more than price. I've read and heard of pointing fingers at China, but there's going to be a bottom for them too. At a certain point, they too will start to worry about rock-bottom prices feeding their operations (and stock holders and loans).

Now, I love this industry. And as much as I want solar to kick coal and gas in the pants when it comes to price, I also want PV manufacturers to thrive and profit so that there is robust competition and choice.

And so, as usual, I not only offer my usual Solar Fred warnings and perspective above, but I also offer solutions:

1)   The only innovation anyone cares about now is low price.  The Wal-Mart mentality ain’t going away any time soon, especially with this American and global economy. Everyone’s pinching pennies and worried about tomorrow's cash flow, so the only innovation your solar engineers should be working on is how to make reliable, conventional, solar PV panels for the least expensive price. Period.

2)   Added values matter, but only if they’re included in the same competitive price. Are you working on sleek black beauties? Do you have some kind of panel failure insurance plan? Are you the cleanest, greenest, clean-tech company in China or anywhere? Wonderful, but don’t expect anyone to pay much extra. If that were the case, Evergreen would still be in business. String ribbon may have been eco-friendly, but the Market refused to pay more for that benefit.

3)   American made panels may now be competitive—but only at the same price. I’ve personally noticed an American jingoism from consumers and installers. In the age of solar pv commoditization, price will remain king, but if you can offer a Made-in-America panel at the same price as a tier one foreign made panel, my bet is that American installers will choose the American-made brand. Naturally, don’t forget to highlight this U.S.-made fact in your marketing. That being said, Solon and SolarWorld just shut down two U.S. factories, so it's not an easy or perhaps cost effective solution — at least not yet. (See #1.)

4)   New government policies may make or break you. Get political. Decent demand is keeping a lot of PV companies above water right now, and some of that demand is driven by these record low PV prices and the threat of rising fossil fuel prices. However, if the EPA is (further) gutted and we have a pro-fossil fuel new president in 2012, solar will become less competitive with fossil fuel and nukes. Without the 1603 grant program and 30 percent ITC, solar will survive, but grow much slower. Therefore, pay your dues and support SEIA, Vote Solar, IREC, SolarTech, and any other organization that supports solar jobs, growing the industry, and educating politicians. Political leadership matters now more than ever.

5)   Build a trusted brand. Obviously, as a solar marketing consultant, there’s some self interest here, but honest: In the new age of solar commoditization, it’s more important than ever to create an army of solar brand loyalists. Given relative equal quality and price, it’s up to your company to create solar fans through exceptional customer service and communications. Chicken soup is on every grocery store shelf in America, but people have different feelings and will often pay more because of their trust in Campbell’s or Progresso health or taste benefits. People will pay more for and defend their Harley-Davidsons. There are Mac people and there are Microsoft people. There are Ford F-150 lovers and Dodge Ram die-hards. This kind of enthusiasm can happen with solar too, whether it's commercial, utility, or residential. “Trust” is the key word here. Learn about your customers and learn how to build brand trust, and then it won’t be such a coin flip for the $/watt panel that an installer chooses. Instead, it will be a very conscious choice. It will be "I like and trust that solar brand. I recommend it because...” There's already a little bit of that out there. Now, in the age of solar commoditization, there needs to be much, much more.

As I stated in my previous post on REWorld, despite the loss of Solyndra and Evergreen, I’m confident that our global industry will survive and thrive. For solar PV manufacturers, now is the time to genuinely UnThink Solar.

Tor Valenza a.k.a. “Solar Fred” advises solar companies on marketing, communications, and public relations. Contact him through UnThink Solar or follow him on Twitter @SolarFred.

Photo: Flickr/DH Wright, adapted

The information and views expressed in this blog post are solely those of the author and not necessarily those of RenewableEnergyWorld.com or the companies that advertise on this Web site and other publications. This blog was posted directly by the author and was not reviewed for accuracy, spelling or grammar.

30 Comments

Register To Comment
Panos Blatsios
Panos Blatsios
September 19, 2011
Seems that SolarWorld has made it to enter Hollywood world in a way!

http://www.pv-tech.org/chip_shots_blog/red_carpet_solar_emmys_to_feature_49.5kw_pv_awning_powered_by_solarworld_pa
AJ White
AJ White
September 18, 2011
Mr. Dangelo, where did you get this information on the history of the gas tax? You wrote: "A higher Federal gasoline tax which is currently 18.4 cents. Not raised since 1993! Its time to raise the gasoline tax to $.50!" The information source is incorrect.

I love to read blogs but am a bit of a stickler about facts. According to http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/gastax.cfm (see paragraph Strolling Through Gas Tax History) the original tax was 1 cent. It was raised to 1.5 cents in 1933, 2 cents in 1951, etc. You are correct that the rate as of 2005 is 18.4 cents.

Please forgive me if this post comes off as some kind of attack. It is certainly not meant to hurt. If there was an email address this could have been sent to instead, I probably would have done it privately. This post is only meant to inform. Thank you.
Frank Heller
Frank Heller
September 17, 2011
Isn't 'shelf life' & 'expiration dates' the equivalent of a 'warranty'?

Difficult?

Of course; but with the collapse of Sol. & Evergreen, not only will consumers demand better warranties but proof the company is going to stay in business to honor it? Again, more reason to demand standardization and interchangeability.

And why are most of the green things in my garden now turning brown?

....without torturing any more metaphors, I think many agree there are lessons to learn from both the computer industry and supermarkets.
Mike Mendes
Mike Mendes
September 17, 2011
Interesting comparison. But food manufacturers can clearly differentiate their products by quality, freshness, longevity and flavor. So far, I think we've seen that's incredibly difficult in the PV world. It's like PC's - they're all pretty good, and lowest price wins. IF ONLY we could find a module that "tastes great", we'd be able to sell it for more!

Agreed about private labeling. Also - expect to see them sell more direct like Dell. Distributors don't add much value except local stocking.
Frank Heller
Frank Heller
September 17, 2011
Does distribution control manufacturing?

If they aren't selling it your ability to manufacture it is severely constricted....think you can make it on the web? So can they and with hourly deep discounts that create buying frenzy.

Hannefords food markets take what sells and has their own brands of items...excellence in the INSPIRATIONS product line sells; and they are private labeled to Hanneford's specifications, i.e. cheese from Cabot.

The day is coming when established PV manuf. will private label for H.D., Lowes, Hancock Lumber, etc. to their specifications...and be able to integrate a new roof with a PV installation; or a new furnace with solar thermal.

Either niche it out; or learn to dance around the elephants like I did with personalized customer relationships.
Mike Mendes
Mike Mendes
September 16, 2011
Solar Fred - GREAT article! The failure of the US PV industry is a classic case of not learning from the past. I was in the PC industry during the wicked hot 80's and 90's. ALL the marketing might of HP, Compaq and, especially, IBM could not hold off the onslaught of the Chinese and Korean clones. Within a few years all the big dogs were making their PC's offshore and all the FUD (Fear, uncertainty and doubt.) mattered for naught. And PC's are a lot more complex than PV panels. American consumers WILL pay a BIT more for American made, but not much - in my experience, the max is 3% - 5%. After that, it's "hello China".

HOWEVER - look at what Apple has achieved. They charge a MUCH higher premiium for their (Perceived) superior technology. Bummer is that most is made in China anyhow. (They just make a lot more profit.) Obviously they got pounded by the more open Windows platform in terms of market share, but no one can deny US ingenuity and invention in that product line over the years. What will happen when Steve Jobs leaves?

As far as quality and longevity - our small PV installation company has seen ZERO quality issues from Chinese panels. It is doubtful wholesale failures will be seen with Chinese panels over time.

The comparison with WalMart is silly. They are a distribution channel, and have little to do with manufacturing. It's no accident they are the largest employer in the WORLD. Whatever the snobs say, people shop there, and A LOT. (Including me.)

If a US company can produce a superior panel either in performance or features, and at a competitive price, it will be bought.

There IS hope in thermal. Check out Sunnovations and Suntrac. Two "out of the box" thermal solutions, American made!
George Reynoldson
George Reynoldson
September 16, 2011
Isn't PV today in about the same Model-T stage as solar water heating, active solar water heating and passive solar were in the US in 1981… about the time the solar learning curve was beginning to accelerate enough to threaten the status quo?

Recalling that the solar learning curve was stopped dead in its tracks by the GOP between March and August of 1981 makes 2013 an especially frightful year for Gaia should the Tea Party Cinderellas be dancing at the next White House inaugural ball. So, maybe US solar manufacturing innovators should be thinking more about how to make solar sexier to consumers, integrate it into building materials and avoid DOE's financial foxes altogether or at least as much as possible lest solar's government dependency cycle trap repeat itself again circa 2013.

In 1976 I was equally attracted to solar because of its aesthetic and economic potential. In my opinion it failed primarily because its evolution was crushed before aesthetic considerations (to me solar IS beautiful) could drive the industry through it inevitable "times of troubles".

Now that PV efficiency-cost curves may be about to plateau (for a while), might it not be the perfect time to out-Chinese China's solar industrial complex (aesthetically) by creating "solar styles" like the automobile industry did after the Model-T? Or maybe think Steve Jobs 1996 to 2011! He was aware of the importance of display and looks right from the start (see image of his first 250 Apples at http://ranger.befunk.com/pics/latest/Coast%20with%20Mom-Pages/Image174.html).

With imagination, the solar industry could do the same and help the building industry restart the solar building aesthetic paradigm that began in the mid 70s but crashed suddenly after the 1980 election. Despite failures, the Solar Age is inevitable if civilization as we know it is to survive.
Frank Heller
Frank Heller
September 16, 2011
Have you ever been to a LOWES or HOME DEPOT? Installation is a Commodity, which they 'sell' and also guarantee.

My wife and I selected a new type of 'floating floor' for the bathroom and scheduled an installation for $150. Saved over a thousand from a flooring place.

First guy was a dolt and screwed up the job wicked bad...never replaced the wax doughnut under the toliet with a new one, and apparently walked off it, re-using the old one. Smelly leak; plus the fit along walls, bathtub was worse than I could do.....and that's saying a lot.

So we complained and H.D. got their installation co. to send an inspector;and eventually we got a new floor with underlayment, etc. from a real pro....who was in and out...flooring was so precisely installed it looked like a CADD machine did it. H.D. absorbed the cost; we were happy and the cost was the same.

No reason why solar installations can't work the same way; especially with all these certificate courses popping up. I'm certified to do solar thermal and could be a free lance installer working on contract; in essence I'm a commodity!
Joia Gibble
Joia Gibble
September 16, 2011
While PV panels may be a commodity, the installation of the equipment should not be looked at as a commodity. If consumer A gets his equipment and installation at a better price per watt than his neighbor, he may be incurring costs down the road if his roof leaks, his equipment deteriorates. Be careful choosing on price only, some companies are "buying jobs", competing for projects at a price that does not allow them to stay in business. This will be bad for the whole industry 2-3 years from now when customers are scrambling to get equipment replaced, or production warranties honored by defunct companies.
Thomas M
Thomas M
September 16, 2011
As with any other type of investment, why put all your eggs in one basket. Investing in large systems, due to contract agreements and requirements, almost certainly forces a customer to choose a large number of similar or the same panels from a particulart company. What if these are the panels that go faulty in a short amount of time and the company just went under. What do you do then?
As another poster here mentioned, making products that are compatible should be the norm. This would increase competition and lower prices. Then I could install company A's panels, or other components, today and if I find that they do not work up to spec., then I can add company B's at a later date and hopefully by then, prices will have dropped and technology has improved.
This type of installation should be the norm for home owners with minimal money to spend. Not only does it allow them to purchase a system, at whatever cost they can afford, it allows them to grow their system as they save money and component costs go down. It also adds redundancy to the mix. If one company's product fails then using or having a secondary backup from another's contributes to peace of mind and appreciation of the investment. And once components become "off the shelf", just as any other home improvement product, then you know we are doing the right thing.
Gerry Wootton
Gerry Wootton
September 16, 2011
One way to improve the interoperability of solar modules is the use of micro-inverters. Micro-inverters can preferably feed a common high-voltage DC bus which optimizes the performance of the primary/AC inverter, minimizes line losses and makes any combination of modules pluggable. Now if one could only get agreement on a standard bus voltage (e.g. 550 VDC). For small installations, AC micro-inverters would make more sense as this can exploit standard outdoor AC wiring hardware and AC voltages are all ready standardized.

This also would solve a basic problem for rooftop installation: the module geometry required for full coverage is rarely entirely rectalinear and even when it is an integer number of 'standard' modules may not work out (although it wouldn't hurt module manufacturers to take standard construction framing practice into consideration).
Dave Johnson
Dave Johnson
September 16, 2011
Excellent article, excellent comments...I can tell you this as a consumer...I'm done with Walmart..The stores stink, the lighting is terrible, and their selection is TERRIBLE compared to what it used to be, especially in the meat department.

I will go there for automotive, fishing, and some home appliances..but the weekly visits are over..!!!

Don't think the solar PV industry is quite that mature..and still going for the best value/price there..I think maybe the desktop PC market would be a better metaphor.
Frank Heller
Frank Heller
September 16, 2011
The computer industry went through this same kind of transformation to the point of where key components were interchangeable...a keyboard one one vendor, a chassis from another with a motherboard from yet another. Dealers became system integrator s; and even choose operating systems.

To be sure there were manuf. who chose to keep rigid control over every aspect of their computer; APPLE is one, the others aren't around any more.

So why can't a solar PV system also have interchangeable components and why doesn't the 'industry' promote standardization of components and grading of components; so you can upgrade your system when you replace components?

Love my Beetle but a $135 washer fluid bottle and a $135 window switch are a bit much....epoxied the repairs; and installed the switch myself at wholesale cost.
Eric Mathis
Eric Mathis
September 16, 2011
Love your stuff but I have to say... As a budding economic historian, I am confident that you cannot decouple innovation from price. Ex: The drop in the price of silicon directly resulted from innovation.

Still a fan!
Tim Dolan
Tim Dolan
September 15, 2011
As another homeowner, my decisions were:

1. I must be able to either produce enough to provide 100% offset for my electricity (or very close) or wait for better tech.

2. Noting that there were two panels that could meet my needs if they covered my South facing main roof. My decisions between them worked out to a size of panel vs. size of roof, versus power of panel vs. how many could I put up there. Suntech beat Evergreen in this one and cost sealed the deal.

And as to Chinese, we need to start thinking about Chinese companies like we think of Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Honda; not US versus Japan, because my Suntech panels are doing better then I thought and are better built then I expected. We will see if that holds true in 10 or 20 years, but right now I can recommend Suntech as a homeowner, even though a Chinese company (and although they have an Arizona Factory, mine were before that opened).

The thin film lost out because it did not meet goal #1 on my house. I have a two story house so roof is a smaller area. If I had same SqFt but single story, might have had enough roof to look at thin film PV.

My goals are not everyone's goals of course, some just want the partial offset.
Allen Gerhardt
Allen Gerhardt
September 15, 2011
As a homeowner I have a different perspective than the utilities. When I looked at silicon cell panels, I see production that fits my space. With thin film at a much lower output, it takes too many to do the job. So for the difference in price, and the rack and installation costs, the higher efficiency panels seem like the better product for my needs, and the output makes up for the higher unit costs.
Gerry Wootton
Gerry Wootton
September 15, 2011
Dave makes an important point - any manufacturer that deviates substantially from the main stream business suffers penalties due to limited supply chain and little sharing of R&D costs as well as paying full load for NRE on equipment. Economy of scale is much more than just any individual manufacturer's volume.

The main available price premium is for performance. Higher performing modules have lower BOS and operating costs so the market can support a higher price for higher efficiency modules. Currently, there are three streams: moderate efficiency and low $/W (primarily thin film), high efficiency / premium modules with a relatively high $/W - frequently deployed on trackers as efficiency drives down the BOS $/W - and the rest somewhere in the middle (with somewhat schizophrenic pricing).

In North America, utility scale and large commercial installations have the volume - additional factors affecting pricing include bankability and availability. Availability is an important factor: most integrators would rather populate all of the racking with only one module type or only a few plug-compatible module types. This presents at least one self-induced injury for manufacturers who haven't yet commodotized at the module level. Another related issue is the relatively short build-out time for very large installations: sometimes the main question is whether a manufacturer can deliver 10's of MW over a period of a few months.

Its time to stop railing about Chinese or anyone's quality issues. As long as large scale solar is in vogue and bankability is critical, quality will take care of itself.
David Dunnison
David Dunnison
September 15, 2011
Great article, Fred. I do have to disagree with the notion that the 'commodity' product is somehow inferior - especially to Evergreen or Solyndra - or that the "fancy innovation" actually created value.

Evergreen's process made sense when and only when Silicon costs were extremely high. The products sacrificed performance. Solyndra's products were hard to produce. Solyndra's manufacturing could not keep pace with the industry, let alone outpace it.

Both companies had unique manufacturing processes in an industry that was scaling AND improving incredibly rapidly. The sustained is arguably unique in the history of commerce. Improvements to 'conventional' processes can be shared, and almost everyone benefits. Everyone except the fringe players with unique processes.

In the case of these two companies, there was nobody else to share the burden of process improvement in the manufacturing equipment.

All industries go through consolidation. Evergreen and Solyndra had no chance at becoming mainstream, and didn't offer any (or enough) distinction to sustain a niche. Their destiny has long been a foregone conclusion.

Regards, David (http://d-bits.com)
Tor 'Solar Fred' Valenza
Tor 'Solar Fred' Valenza
September 15, 2011
@Greg_0, see my comment #2. Higher qulaity tiers will compete on the same playing field.

@WJR You're right about SolarWorld not shutting down in the U.S. I just meant that they were closing one facility, as you pointed out. Thanks. Kind of on topic, they're also sponsoring the American Emmy (television) awards with a 50KW system surrounding the red carpet. Shout out to them for good marketing for themselves and for solar.

@wood43 and @Gre, I admit my American bias because it's where I live and know my market. I love hearing international perspectives on this topic. America is so behind in solar compared to the rest of the world, and our politics are slanted against PV, whether the manufacturer is foreign OR domestic. Currently here, we have a Congressional Solyndra witch hunt that is putting a black eye on the entire industry. So, yes, this is RenewableEnergyWorld, so I'm trying to support my backyard, though I do sincerely support the world's solar efforts, regardless of origin. Because of our politics, I think it would be prudent to manufacture here. That's what policy makers want, and I believe the American public does too.

Thanks all for your comments and perspectives.
Greg Smith
Greg Smith
September 15, 2011
Cheaper is not always better, as most know, however people are treating their solar inverters and modules like appliances - somkething that can be thrown away and replaced.

Inferior Chinese mass production will catch up with the solar industry and give opponents one more reason to tout its unsuccessfulness as an alternative energy supply.

$/kwh > $/w
Wolfgang Jeutter
Wolfgang Jeutter
September 15, 2011
I just have a few comments:
1. @ Solar Fred, nice article only that SolarWorld, which is very profitable in the US is only moving their module lines to Oregon where their main facility is.
2.@ Dave Henry, you are absolutely right but there are signs that Solar advertizing is coming now with Trina sponsoring Formula one (Renault), Yingli US-Soccer and Canadian Solar the English Premier league to mention a few. I think it is slowly understood that advertizing is necessary.
3. @ Free Marketeer, one of the biggest cost factors for a US residential PV-system in the US is the cost for permits which equals to about $1.00 per watt (average) compare to around $0.07 in Germany. PV companies fighting every cent per Watt, and then the State just takes a Dollar. Exactly here the biggest change has to happen!
Greg Pulcher
Greg Pulcher
September 15, 2011
Wood43, writing from Italy I can assure you that you're wrong. Down here PV panels are sold as "cheap" which means chinese, or "norwegian" which means good. The brand is not the Company but the Country. For long years in Italy all electrical devices had to be "german" as brand. This is to tell that Brand is very important anyhow, doesn't matter if the Brand is "Solindra" or "Chinese" or "Norwegian", always Brands are in our head, call them Labels if you want, it's easier. Hear what SolarFred says, it' pure gold, and free.
Don Wood
Don Wood
September 15, 2011
Good article. To read recent articles and especially comment threads, you would think that this was Renewable Energy America, not Renewable Energy WORLD. The 95% of the world's population not living in America don't really mind if the panels are made elsewhere!
James Desmond
James Desmond
September 13, 2011
Agree with the free market basics you articulate -- why SHOULDN'T price/value rule? Why would ANY consumer invest in a solar array unless its pay-back cycle made sense to them?

Because right now, it doesn't. Even with subsidies. In fact, I claim the lowest-cost installed 10KW system in America, at $3.5/watt up-front price, and $1.4/watt 'subsidized' price = 14 year payback, which 'Joe Six Pack' ain't gonna tolerate. Here it is, btw: https://picasaweb.google.com/115162333107690986192/A54KWHDay

You use 'Walmart Mentality' as a pejorative term. I say that IS the marketplace -- I buy milk, soap, sneakers (etc.) there because I get the best value for my money. What's wrong with that?

PCs were 'special' at first, and sold for big bucks in 'computer shops.' Then they were commoditized (Walmartized) and we all benefitted immensely. Solar PV must do the same, and throwing public money at it (tax credits, grants, RPS/FITS, etc.) won't help it get there (vendors raise prices to cop the spread, I would!), but instead $500 million losses like you just saw with the latest Corporate Solar Welfare Queen failures.

More here:https://sites.google.com/site/freemarketsolarpower/home
Tor 'Solar Fred' Valenza
Tor 'Solar Fred' Valenza
September 13, 2011
Love that Hollywood idea, David! Solar PV marketing people reading this... go for it. (I'm based in Los Angeles, by the way.)
David Henri
David Henri
September 13, 2011
Good points Fred, as always. When we hit the pricing bottom, which can't be far from here, other factors will become more important. Such as quality, dependable service /delivery, financing and the manufacturing companies ability to outlast their warranty.

Lots of cash and incentives are pouring into the better mousetrap trap, when low and behold the old mouse trap is nearly at the price point the better mouse traps are aspiring to. It was accomplished by modern mass production techniques, basically robotics and low wages. That, combined with the current over supply, due in part to the unexpected cut in subsidies in Europe and the long recession.

The thing that scares me the most about the situation is that the populace and governments might think that PV is now OK without subsidies. We need to keep promoting solar and not become complacent. The oversupply will not last forever, cuts in manufacturing levels and an increase in demand will eventually stabilize the market.

There are big TV campaigns by the oil, gas and coal industries telling people how safe they are , how many jobs they create, and how fracking and tar sands are environmentally benign.

What we need is Hollywood and the film industry to place PV into consumer living rooms by having PV in the background of movies and TV shows. There are many scenes were PV could in the background. The PV companies and Hollywood need to team up and depict PV as commonplace. Fossil fuels may be able to buy the TV adds, but we can show solar in the content between their adds!
Tor 'Solar Fred' Valenza
Tor 'Solar Fred' Valenza
September 13, 2011
Sadly, I believe that people today are short term thinkers, Tim. I believe there is a huge psychological draw to take low up front costs rather than long term savings. Some companies have a more long term philosophy, but I think that takes extra care and marketing and communications, especially for something new and never seen before (not to mention unproven except in the lab.)

Apple's MP3 player was a radical change, as you noted. Not only was it radical, it was convenient and it was part of the digital revolution where everyone wants it now and everywhere.

Any solar company offering that kind of radical change better be able to answer critics who say it is unproven and that the company is going to be there in 25 years. Better to go with the proven conventional and cheaper panels. Again, amazing marketing and demonstrations may incrementally change that perception.

Now, if you're talking about only 5% or 10% more for that kind of long-term production savings, that mitigates the risk on new technology--somewhat. Again, it's very difficult to not be affected by price in today's market. Conventional PV works, so you have to make the case that it's worth more money and higher risk to take a chance on the next Apple, especially when you're talking about large scale and utility projects.
Tim Johnson
Tim Johnson
September 13, 2011
We agree on the goal but if you will allow me for a moment to stretch your thinking - what if someone introduces a new paradigm for solar in the same way Apple and Google changed our view of MP3 players and Internet search? Neither were first, but each was clearly better. For example, what would people say to - pay 30% more for the system, but get 10% lower cost of energy? Could people stomach that? Why or why not?
Tor 'Solar Fred' Valenza
Tor 'Solar Fred' Valenza
September 13, 2011
Good point, Tim! Think that comment speaks to my thoughts up there about there being tiers of commoditization, as the (marginally) higher priced PV panel manufacturers that produce more energy will be competing against each other, not just the lowest price/watt panels.

That being said, the cheaper panels will, I believe, still cause even these higher tier companies to address price pressures, despite their added values.

Thanks for your thoughts.
Tim Johnson
Tim Johnson
September 13, 2011
Solar Developers are faced with a decision as to what system to install but before they choose they need to remember what their goals are - installing a system that produces the most energy at the lowest cost.

So here's their choice - Buy conventional solar panels that are all the same. The only way to distinguish the difference between them is primarily on price, and then it's a race to the bottom.

Or focus on the energy production. And in that case it's total energy per project, lower degradation, and system reliability that matters. And that may not be driven by the lowest price.

Add Your Comments

To add your comments you must sign-in or create a free account.

  • Create a Free Account!
  • Sign-In
UnThink Solar

UnThink Solar

UnThink Solar is a strategic solar marketing and communications company. Clients include Panasonic, One Block Off the Grid, Free Hot Water and other solar PV and Thermal companies who desire to stand out in an increasing competitive solar...
  • Home
  • About
  • Blog
  • Press Releases
  • Contact
  • FOLLOW
  • ABOUT US
  • WEBSITE
  • CONTACT US
Stay Connected
         
To register for our free e-Newsletters, create your free account here:

Create a free account and start adding your blogs.

Create an Account

Most Commented

  • 17
    The Economic Case for Divesting from Fossil Fuels
  • 12
    Breakdown: Penetration of Renewable Energy in Selected Markets
  • 12
    Fracking and Solar: Friends, Foes or the Bridge to Clean Energy Adoption?
  • 4
    China Solar Update: Trina Improves, Suntech Scores Extension, Beijing Awaits EU Tariff Decision

Total Access Partners

Growing Your Business? Learn More about Total Access
  • Intersolar
  • American Council On Renewable Energy (ACORE)
  • Reed Exhibitions
  • ReneSola
  • Array Technologies
  • Standard Solar Inc.
  • GoGreenSolar.com
  • Parker Hannifin - Precision Cooling Systems
News
  • Renewable Energy
  • Solar Energy
  • Wind Energy
  • Bioenergy
  • Geothermal Energy
  • Hyrdo Power
  • Blogs
  • Video
  • Finance
Resources
  • Companies
  • Products
  • Careers
  • Events
  • Webcasts
  • White Papers
  • Magazines
  • Press Releases
  • e-Newsletters
Company
  • About Us
  • Our Team
  • Contact Us
  • Advertising & Services
  • Privacy Policy
  • Terms & Conditions
  • Site Map
Network Partners - Magazines
  • Hydro Review Magazine
  • Hydro Review Worldwide Magazine
  • Renewable Energy World Magazine
Network Partners - Events
  • Power-Gen International
  • Renewable Energy World Conference & Expo North America
  • Renewable Energy World Conference & Expo Europe
  • Renewable Energy World Conference & Expo Asia
  • Renewable Energy World Conference & Expo Africa
  • Renewable Energy World Conference & Expo India
  • HydroVision International
  • HydroVision Brazil
  • HydroVision India
  • HydroVision Russia
© Copyright 1999-2013 RenewableEnergyWorld.com - All rights reserved.
RenewableEnergyWorld.com - World's #1 Renewable Energy Network for news & Information