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Can We Build Our Way Out of an Energy Crisis?

By Kathleen Davis
March 23, 2011   |   19 Comments

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19 Reader Comments
Comment
1 of 19
March 24, 2011
I used to be one of those guys who was totally against nuclear power. It wasn't that I was afraid that they would blow us up, my main problem was the waste.

Then I read that there really wasn't that much waste produced and that due to it's density, that it really didn't take up that much space.

After driving through Nebraska, I changed my mind about what could be done with the waste! While I'm kidding there, it's not by very much! It does seem to me that there should be someplace that we could store this stuff on a permanent basis that it wouldn't be a danger to the population.

I have to admit that the fact that the folks who had a nuclear power plant located on the coast hadn't taken into account the effects that a tsunami would have on the generators that powered their cooling units, has me a bit concerned. But, to me, that only means that we need to go back to the drawing board and plan better for disasters.

In the long run, I think that renewable energy is the way to go, but in the short run, I don't see how we can replace fossil fuels without nuclear.

Bob "Free As The Wind" Mitchell
Comment
2 of 19
March 25, 2011
OK Bob, I was a huge proponent of the split atom thing until I did the math. Hows this for you ... 2000 years ago your great great ... grandfather figured out how to generate electricity splitting atoms. He said it was wonderful, and for him, it was! Now here is his waste material 2000 years lator with 6000+ years before you might want to leave it unprotected. There is only a few hundred cubic yards of the stuff for you to babysit ... not for him you understand, for you! Because if you fail to keep this stuff under wraps, you might find yourself facing some lunatic whose religion teaches him that you must die even if he has to die in the process. It sounds to me like your greedy grandfather will not have to worry about this so what the heck, right? Nuclear power that generates waste is an accident waiting to happen, and it can wait many thousand years for its opportunity to peal the flesh from your posteritys bones. Do you have children Bob? You might want to tell them that you have made a hidious snake, then left it in the closet and they and their children, and their children, ... better be prepared to take care of it no matter what it costs unless they want to see their people die a hidious death. Thanks a bunch gramps ... we love you too!
Comment
3 of 19
March 25, 2011
Why not rocket the waste into the sun?
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Comment
4 of 19
Anonymous
March 25, 2011
Dr. Chu doesn't realize that "building our way out of an energy crisis" would cost 7-10 Trillion dollars. WHERE is that money coming from?

DOE does not have a Plan. It's just green-washing.
Comment
5 of 19
March 25, 2011
Angus, if you would like to know why we should not rocket radioactive waste into the sun, or send it anywhere in space, look at the video of the last flights of space shuttles Challenger and Columbia. Imagine that all the rocket debris raining down on your head is radioactive. That's why.
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Comment
6 of 19
Anonymous
March 25, 2011
It's not possible without nuclear power. It would cost up to $10 trillion to switch to wind/solar electricity. We need to find something affordable - even nuclear is very expensive.
Comment
7 of 19
March 25, 2011
RE costs done right now would be expensive. Spread over time is doable in my view, even without nukes. I think the real fear is the money drug the government would be without if so much national energy were distributed without their control. Remember, junkies will do anything to get their fixes. Lie, cheat, kill, and steal?, No problem. Show them the money. Seems pessimistic, but look at the records. Money runs the show. I would love it if I were proven wrong. I can do energy independence for myself. Can you? Just take a step, then another, then another.........
Comment
8 of 19
March 25, 2011
Tim: I agree with you 100% on your leaving of the waste to future generations argument. It's not fair. But it's even less fair to leave them all of the environmental legacies of coal and other fossil fuels.

In a perfect world, we would do as they taught me in the boy scouts when we went camping. That is, to leave the forest better off than we found it.

Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world! We live in a world where the demand for energy is growing, not getting smaller. Short of a massive decline in population and energy consumption patterns, it really comes down to a choice between the lessor of two evils. We're going to leave our grandchildren a mess one way or the other.

The faster we make the switch to renewable energy sources, the less of a mess we're going to leave to them!

Anonymous: It's going to be expensive no matter what we do. As Tim pointed and I have pointed out, the question with nuclear and fossil fuels is if we pay for our energy usage or if we put the cost off onto our children and grandchildren.

The sooner we get started in earnest switching to renewables, the less expensive it will be!

Phil: I agree with you regarding distributed energy and government motivations, but not everyone is in a position to provide their own energy and there are economies of scale that we benefit from regarding centralized energy production.

For these reasons we're going to need utility scale energy production. The question is what is the best way to provide those electrons!

Bob "Free As The Wind" Mitchell
Comment
9 of 19
March 25, 2011
OK Bob, Phil,Angus, etal, how about a real solution? see www.heavyhydraulicoscillation.com then do the math.
Comment
10 of 19
March 25, 2011
Tim: I visited the website and it sounds interesting. I'm still a bit confused by how you get the air under the water to compress it?

If it takes 62lbs per cubic foot to "push" the air under the water, where does this energy come from? I can see it as a storage mechanism, but I don't see it as a generation medium?

Feel free to email me at retmarketing@gmail.com

Bob "Free As The Wind" Mitchell
Comment
11 of 19
March 25, 2011
tim:

How exactly does the air become compressed? You want to spend energy to produce energy? That doesn't make a bit of logic. Why not ust use the energy used to compress the air as a source fitst?
Comment
12 of 19
March 25, 2011
Sorry, I have not figured out how to clear this up on the web site, it makes sence to all of us here ... I'll work on it.
Look closely at the elevated water explanation. I will give you some basic examples but you will have to extrapolate a bit to see it in a physical application. Take two pipes, one your source, pipe 'A' 100 feet high and 12" in diameter filled with water, the other (the HYPEG unit) filled with water, pipe 'B'. Then connect pipe 'A' to a box 10 cubic feet filled with air. Add an input valve to control this 100 foot head, valve 'a' into this box. Then connect another pipe from this box to the bottom of the 25 foot pipe. Add another control valve to this one, valve 'b'. When you open valve a, the air in the box becomes compressed with the 100 foot head. Then, when you open valve 'b', the air will be forced into box 'B' into the bottom of pipe 'B' because a 25 foot head can not hold back a 100 foot head. The air that was in the box bubbles up into pipe 'B'. Make sense? The only energy used is the elevated mass provided by mother nature in the form of rain in the 100 foot pipe, or the water behind a dam, or even in a river 100 feet above in elevation. When you understand this, look at every opportunity where water runs from an elevation. One cubic foot of water will produce about 3/4 foot of air. Look at all the lakes here in NY for example then look around the world. We will not need nuclear power, coal or oil ever again for electricity. You will see efficiencies reaching a true 90% because there is no acceleratd mass in the water. With both valves above closed the water leaves the bottom box weakly because it has no accelerated mass like a turbine! Sweet!!
Comment
13 of 19
March 26, 2011
Has anyone approached the idea of sending "Solar Waste" to South Miami Beach?

solarplexusco.com
Comment
14 of 19
March 26, 2011
If President Obama and Sec. Chu want to see this country begin to "make stuff" again I would like to offer up my Model T Ford of production line gasifiers for rapid deployment in all 3,000 United States counties, and all around the world at around the same or greater density as a viable way to empower world wide economic gains and wage war on global warming and in making a lot more friends instead of enemies.
Comment
15 of 19
March 26, 2011
Great article! IMHO, we can build our way out of this economic mess but as previously stated, we have to build useful stuff.

Developing our grid would be a very useful start. Right now it's very inefficient, we have to build our generating stations too close to the end users and transfering from one grid to another is futile.

I spent many years living and working within 100 feet of a nuclear reactor as it pushed my submarine around the world. So what if we have to store spent rods. We already have to store them foreever, how hard is it to expand the storage area? We probably don't even have to hire another guard. And, if a super power can't sucessfully guard a pile of waste, we might as well hang it up.

IMHO, we do need to get serious about our plan on protecting our people in the event of nuclear accidents. We just saw our goverment keep their mouths shut as radioactive clouds hit our west coast. A few precautions could possibly have saved a bunch of our folks from cancer in a few years.

Good Luck from Columbiana, Alabama
Maurice Turgeon
Comment
16 of 19
March 26, 2011
Hi Angus ...
<How exactly does the air become compressed? You want to spend energy to produce energy? That doesn't make a bit of logic. Why not ust use the energy used to compress the air as a source fitst?

It is logical, you just missed it. The air is compressed anywhere water is elevated, even low head, and stored, shipped via pipeline to its required location, then inserted into the HYPEG near its required location. Extreme long term storage, very low transmission losses, very high efficiency. Big enough to replace nuclear, gas and oil.
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Comment
17 of 19
Anonymous
March 27, 2011
Bob, free-as-the-wind IGNORES the $10 Trillion cost to switch to wind/solar. Does moneyy grow on trees, Bob?
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Comment
18 of 19
Anonymous
March 28, 2011
If it's only $10 trillion to switch to solar/wind energy let's get started. Let's just triple everyones taxes and clean up the environment.
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Comment
19 of 19
Anonymous
May 9, 2011
For the change to happen, we need to get past the who wants to or not and screw the economy over to make the change. Who cares about an economy or what people "want" when theres an entire ******* planet at stake?! This isn't our home, this is the lab that god built for us, and were not completing the test that he meant for us to complete. Whether or not the test is doing the Christian thing is unimportant. the world needs to know that it needs to be saved now, and we're going to do something about it. I propose a petition be moved forward through the government to make the clean energy methods easily available, and then start removing the destructive things at such an alarming rate that people are forced to make the switch. It is the only way we can actually get our country to do something as a whole, and for once, it needs to be done, and cant be unless we force it on the people. Thats the test of today, we've been given a room to figure something out and we accedentaly turned on some sort of toxic gas emitter and we have to shut it off before we die. The world of today has to realize that we're in trouble, and we have to work as a whole people to save ourselves from ourselves.


When the american government realizes what needs to be done, they need to beg china to put our debt on hold so we can save the world rather than pay off a massive debt for nothing. we shouldn't have even been in other country's where we weren't wanted in the first place. we have involved ourselves in wars to keep the peace and have ended every one of them. we shouldn't owe a debt for ending wars in the first place.
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Kathleen Davis

View Kathleen Davis's Profile
About: Kathleen Davis is senior editor with POWERGRID International magazine and Electric Light & Power magazine (online at www.power-grid.com). Additionally, she serv... more »

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