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Don't Miss The Great Solar Debate: Where Does the Global Solar Industry Stand? Click Here to Register! ×

Will Solar Sales Stay a Professional Position?

Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
February 03, 2011  |  29 Comments

Back in the mid 80's when I would tell someone that I was a mortgage banker, the normal response was a strange look and the question, "what's that?"

During the boom period in the mortgage industry the response was usually something like, "oh yeah, my cousin Guido, who just got out of prison, does that!"

By the time I got out of the business a bit over a year ago the response had generally become a dirty look and something mumbled under the person's breath.

The reason that I bring this up is that I have already started to see the same thing happen in the Solar Industry. All kinds of businesses are springing up left and right. While I appreciate the entrepreneurial spirit, I'm afraid that the lack of standards to be a solar dealer or salesperson is going to hurt the industry in the long haul.

In the mortgage industry just about anybody could join the club. One time while I was in line at a gas station waiting to pay for my tootsie pop, my phone rang. I stepped out of line to answer the phone – it was a client inquiring about the status of their loan.

I talked with the guy for a bit and by the time I was done, the line had dwindled to where I was the next one up. As I went to pay, the cashier, who was wearing a gravy stained shirt, hadn't shaved in several days and was missing several teeth, asked me if I was a mortgage banker.

I told him, "yes" and he proceeded to dig out a stained and battered business card that identified him as a loan officer with a large national mortgage lender. He smiled a gap toothed smile and proudly proclaimed that he too, "was a mortgage banker!"

Now, I'm not the prettiest person in the world myself, but I do have all of my teeth (at least the front ones) and I shower and shave everyday. And while some folks out there might think that I'm a snoot for being taken aback by the guy's proclamation, I don't feel bad about my dismay at how low the mortgage industry sunk.

So now, I'm starting over and am out looking to get my foot in the door to the solar industry. I've seen several companies taking the low road when they examine the solar salesperson: Several companies I've talked with were more concerned with my willingness to work on a 100% commission basis than the fact that I've studied electrical theory and know the difference between an amp and a volt.

Looking around, I do see signs of hope, such as the NABCEP Solar Sales Certification, which I've started started studying for. But sometimes, I am still afraid that solar sales is going to go the way of home improvement or car sales.

I hate to be pessimistic, but if my experience in the mortgage industry is any indication, the low road is going to win out. Solar companies are going to be more concerned with how well a salesman can close a deal (whether the customer is best served or not) than in doing the right thing.

I hope that I'm wrong. I'm also curious as to what others think – especially solar installers who have been in the business for a while.

Bob "Free As The Wind" Mitchell

The information and views expressed in this blog post are solely those of the author and not necessarily those of RenewableEnergyWorld.com or the companies that advertise on this Web site and other publications. This blog was posted directly by the author and was not reviewed for accuracy, spelling or grammar.

29 Comments

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Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
February 25, 2011
Thanks Robin. It is an interesting situation and I'm curious how it will work out in the long haul!

Bob "Free As The Wind" Mitchell
Robin -Energy Search Consultant-Recruiter
Robin -Energy Search Consultant-Recruiter
February 25, 2011
Excellent Read! The initial posting & thread that followed had me engaged from cradle-to-grave. Thanks Bob "Free As The Wind" Mitchell! P.S. I like your humor!
William Fitch
William Fitch
February 11, 2011
Hi:

Well, I went to the site, which I usually don't waste my time doing when the post smells like _ss _hole.
... and well, no surprises.
I think it is sites like this that brings true meaning to the difference between sales and engineering, and why sales, by itself is looked at as a bit of an evil. Given a good looking sales person and the right personality and vocabulary, money could get thrown away in directions like this.
Everything from over unity to what someone can _ull _hit and make sound good with half truths etc.. is up for grabs....
It is a shame that RE is not exempt from this krap...
Enough said...

.....Bill
Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
February 11, 2011
DUDE!!!! Chill baby! ;) First, I will go and check out the website that you noted. On the subject of emerging technologies, I'm a big believer in keeping an open mind. Something that sounds nuts at first glance, may indeed turn out to be something that has practical applications down the road.

Since I've started studying renewable energy about a year or so ago, I've heard of hundreds of these "miracle" technologies and while that probably isn't enough time for them to fully develop, I haven't seen one of them yet that has at least started to gain acceptance to any degree in the renewable energy universe. That said, you never know???

Regarding your point that solar, wind and other renewable energy sources (that would be wind TURBINES as opposed to wind mills, by the way - they pretty much stopped milling grain with wind a while back), I'm more optimistic.

Yeah, we use a HUGE amount of energy every day and it's going to take awhile to gear up to replace fossil fuels, but we've only scratched the surface in terms of utilizing the available renewable resources that we have....both here in the US and in "dem God fersaken fereign places". :-)

Thanks for your input!

Bob "Free As The Wind" Mitchell
Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
February 10, 2011
Solar: As I've mentioned above, I agree with you that there are professional sales people in every industry, including home remodeling, cars and solar..

I also agree with you that customers should do some due diligence when making a purchase like this, but my experience in the mortgage industry has convinced me that the public can be very gullible.

Regarding if it will ever catch up with these companies, I again have my doubts. I've seen way too many companies that have been in business for years keep on doing the negative things that they do and apparently they make enough money doing it to keep it up!

Thanks for your comment!

Bob "Free As The Wind" Mitchell
Tom Weiss
Tom Weiss
February 10, 2011
As in all industries, there are the highly-competent, very-knowledgeable, professional salespeople and the people looking to make a quick buck and run.

Whenever I go out to meet with a potential client I always have a list of client references to share, so they can contact others who are already benefiting. Some of my clients have made a website to share their solar installs, so I'll send those links. We've also received great reviews that Google brings up.

I like to think that all of that grows into developing trust with the client. It also helps that I know the staff back in the office will ensure all details are properly handled during the registration, permitting, installation and inspection process. I can speak with passion and conviction about the work we've done.

The clients then have to be willing to perform a bit of due diligence or to ensure that what I've shared is true.

I expect there to be quite a shakeout here in NJ over the next couple of years where less professional installers will find negative reviews catching up with them quickly.
Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
February 8, 2011
Russ: I wish that I could agree with you! However, I've seen wayyyyy to many businesses that have terrible reputations, but that make up for any lost business by utilizing unscrupulous business practices and stay in business seemingly forever.

I do like your analogy of the car industry, but how long did it go on before the American auto industry caught on. Even still, I was in a brand spanking new Chevy the other day that had a severe rattle and the radio was starting to go on the fritz.

To that point and having recently owned a Cadillac, I'm one of those people who will never buy another GM car. How many people will say the same thing about solar if the industry (at the least) and the government doesn't hold solar installers to a high standard?

Bob "Free As The Wind" Mitchell
Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
February 8, 2011
Jenifer: Thanks for the compliment! Regarding your question about when I sold mortgages; no, it wasn't always about just closing the deal for me. Unfortunately, by the end it wasn't uncommon to overhear loan officers at a function bragging about how they got somebody for 8 points on a transaction.

Again, I hope that I'm wrong about this whole post, but I guess that we'll have to see. Personally, I'm holding out for the right opportunity. That is, I'd like to go to work for a company that takes the high road and views solar sales as a professional position. Wish me luck!

Steve, I respectfully disagree with you regarding the economic viability of solar. While you might be right in certain circumstances that solar might not make sense on a purely economic basis, there are a host of other considerations for the home/business owner to consider.

In many circumstances, solar can hold it's ground right now on a purely dollars and sense basis. To me, it seems that the salesperson's biggest challenge will be to find these circumstances and capitalize on them.

The biggest economic objection that I can see right now is that efficiencies and dollars per watt are dropping so fast. I can see where a consumer would think that they would be better off simply waiting until things hit bottom.

This is similar to when rates were falling in the mortgage business and people would hold off, hoping for a better rate by doing such.

In those situations, I would usually advise my clients to take advantage of the current rate or maybe even take a slightly higher rate and let me pay for their closing costs. That way if rates did continue to fall, they could refinance again without getting hurt.

In solar, it's not quite the same thing, but a consumer could still start the process of going solar and increase the capacity of their system over time. Kind of a "dollar cost averaging sort of thing". Thanks for your comment!

Bob "Free As The Wind" Mitchell
Russ Finley
Russ Finley
February 8, 2011
Ethics really never has had anything to do with it. An industry has to become competitive enough that a company can't afford a bad reputation. They have too much too lose. And those with good reputations get all the business. The high quality of today's cars has nothing to do with ethics and everything to do with competition. The industry isn't there yet.

You can buy a nine tube solar hot water collector on Amazon for under $600. Getting it installed and finding replacement parts will be the hard part.
Steve Garrison
Steve Garrison
February 8, 2011
Just about any way you slice and dice it, at the current time residential solar PV is not a wise financial investment for the majority of homeowners, so yes you will have a lot of sales people trying to fit the square peg into the round hole to make the sale. But it's not just the sales people it starts at the top and is the same game as the rest of the home improvement industry. An appointment is made, usually with an an uneducated consumer who has been enticed in some manner to "take a look at solar". The sales person is then on a one call close mission regardless of the circumstances. The vast majority of sales people cannot make a decent living given the current demand for solar, so the companies churn and burn through the sales people on straight commission hoping they can make enough sales to survive - and for most resdiential solar companies right now it is surviving not thriving, which is the real crux of the matter.
Jenifer Elam
Jenifer Elam
February 8, 2011
Wow lots of curiosity and conversation about this post. Nice job Bob. I can tell you that the solar sales position is not going away. In fact I have been in sales since 2002 and every year it grows more and more. With the choices we have today and the rest of the world now bringing more and more product into our market we have loads of competition but let me ask you a question. When you sold mortgages was it always about closing the sale? This industry is in its toddler stage right now and we have an opportunity to make a difference and create it to be a sustainable industry. When I work with my customers its not about closing its about creating a relationship and helping them. If you really ask yourself What business am I really in? You would find you are more than a sales person. Ezra is on the mark and has worked over and above the call to help us with training these new sales people. Go for it, you can do it. Education is everything and helping others is the key to our survival. Model the people you are in awe of they did not get where they are from pure luck. And if you need help please feel free to contact me I am easy to find. Jenifer Elam
Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
February 6, 2011
Bill: I agree with you that transparency is a good thing and I like your idea, I just don't think that it goes far enough to protect the public good.

My gut level is that the market for solar will ever get as big as the market for mortgages and maybe if it doesn't get as big, the people who do make these purchase decisions will take the time and have the knowledge and ability to even know to look for information available to them.

I hope, but I also think that eventually solar is going to boom beyond most people's current imagination and if it does, "Bar The Doors" the scammers will be out in force! Thanks for our input.

Rich:

I'm glad that you had a good experience, but being one of those stupid people who was dumb enough to buy a set of speakers off of some guy in a van (yeah, I'm THAT stupid!), people can be gullible and as pointed out above, at this stage of the game, that could really hurt the solar industry!

Thanks for your comment too!

Bob "Free As The Wind" Mitchell
Rich Hessler
Rich Hessler
February 6, 2011
I had a really good buying experience at Best Buy this year.

It's like NABCEP sets the standards to train the field Engineering Geek Squad.

NLP PV Solar Sales training teaches solar to field Sales from a 'Sandler Selling System' perspective.

http://www.pvsolarsalestraining.com/NABCEP_PV_Technical_Sales_Training_Comparison.php

I was relieved for our industry to see the initial responses from:
StephenLacey
CleanEarthEnergy
william-fitch-22587
PamelaCargill
Marvin_Hamon_PE
William Fitch
William Fitch
February 5, 2011
Hi Free:

I really will try to make this short.
As you put it, you can not regulate stupidity.... and I am not by any means against all regulation etc.. you have to take it on a case by case basis.
As for the old lady in the woods, at the end of the day, her system being publicly available in terms of data output would raise a RED FLAG much quicker and allow accountability, over and above any of the current methods in place including product or installer certifications.
If she is so unaware and gullible as to get a system in the woods, it is fair to say she hardly has the skills to ascertain its functionality after install. Public visibility would maybe allow her neighbors or "watch dog" group for the elderly, the ability to raise the situation to her attention.
There is a reason why all kinds of crap needs back rooms, pulled curtains and closed doors. In the light of day, it cannot survive. Plausible deniability, outright lies and like behaviors will not fly by those with selected interests.
In Michael Moor's movie, "Capitalism: A love Story", public outcry killed the 700 Billion dollar bale out for private financial institutions, but a quick back end closed door meeting secured the profiteers interests.
In case you have not noticed, these actions are becoming more frequent and bolder in nature as time moves forward. History shows this always to be the case, until the hammer comes down lethally hard.
There is a simple truth to all governance documentation, the more of it you have, the more places there are to hide and go unnoticed.

.....Bill
Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
February 5, 2011
After I crunched the numbers his mother asked me to call "the nice young man" who she had been dealing with.

When I did, it was obvious that one, he didn't care and two, he didn't care to learn why refinancing this lady wasn't good for her.

At the time, he hadn't broken any laws...his company (who I believe was complacent at the minimum in trying to defraud this lady) had sent all of the mandated disclosures.

Only after more stringent regulations were put in place would this lady had been protected from being taken advantage of.

I know that you can't regulate "stupidity", but you can make sure that if someone were to try and pull this type of scam or in terms of solar, tried selling the little old lady who lives in the stand of tall trees in a narrow valley a solar energy system that they would have to answer to SOMEBODY!

Right now, what would stop an unscrupulous solar dealer from selling her a system that she doesn't need?

Bob "Free As The Wind" Mitchell
Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
February 5, 2011
Bill, Having just spent three days at the California DMV getting my CDL transferred from Oregon to California, I can feel your pain regarding bureaucracies. Bureaucracies cross over the "out of this world" line on a regular basis!

I can even agree that sometimes they get to the point where they hurt more than help, but.....as I pointed out above, sometimes they are necessary for the public good, such as is the case with the FDA and EPA.

Yeah, I'm sure that there are a ton of horror stories of dealing with these agencies and yes, they do tend to get manipulated by the rich and powerful, but I still wouldn't want to live in a world where they weren't there to keep industry honest. Kind of a not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good sort of thing.

Regarding your point about using the "real energy output" of systems as a measure, I think that this would be a great idea if it could be implemented in a straight forward, easy to understand way.

I just read a blog post here on thin film vs conventional PV panels and the comment string that followed and if I wasn't confused before about system output, I am now!

The other problem that I see with utilizing this sort of measurement as a yard stick is that it's a bit late in the process. It won't take into account the scam artists who "close" the little old lady who lives in a stand of woods and wouldn't really benefit from a solar power system.

I'll use another mortgage example if I can...I once got a call from a former client who was concerned that his mother was being taken advantage of.

She only had two years left to go to pay her mortgage off and while her interest rate on the existing mortgage was high, the "payback" period of a new mortgage was over 8 years because at that point in her mortgage, most of her payment was principal.

Her "loan officer" either didn't understand or care that she wouldn't benefit.

(cont)
William Fitch
William Fitch
February 5, 2011
(cont)
Putting a running specification requirement together for manufactures of collectors (No requirement for a DIY'er if for his own system), would yield public visibility to their products actual performance prior to a possible purchase. Dealers and installers could also add to this network by choice, to show validity for their work and products. Once the specification is defined, the possibilities are almost limitless.
No more palms to be greased, no fluff to be sustained by tax dollars, no one-shot large upfront payments. No Teflon entities. Rewards paid over time year after year. It does not matter who does the installation or even who made the units (Includes a DIY'er). If it produces, they get paid. Only a system like this, truly reinforces RE production in a fair way to ALL parties and eliminates all the crap associated with the current methods in place. The desirable required knowledge for businesses practicing in the RE arena, becomes inherent and self sustaining in the visibility of systems.
As long as things continue with business as usual, the bottom line will be a leveragable industry at the beck and call of those who have the most money and power.
Real transparency + real accountability = real validity.

....Bill
William Fitch
William Fitch
February 5, 2011
Hi Free:

Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

For the moment, I will the puppet show aside and focus on regs, being very specific.

Since the beginning of seeking SRCC certification for solar thermal collectors I import, I have had an embittered three year experience which is still not at conclusion. There is very little in this world that surprises me, I mean truly surprises me in a way that invokes a phrase like, "that is not possible", etc.. and the SRCC saga, as bad as it is, does not qualify. However, it has opened my eyes more on how such certification bodies can, especially when backed by the DOE, be realistically untouchable, existing without transparency or accountability, consequently equaling no validity.
I hold an NABCEP cert and I will be the first one to tell you that just because I do, it does not mean diddly squat as a validation that I design and install good systems. I don't say that in anyway pertaining to only the NABCEP cert.. I just used it as an example to make a point. There is knowledge and then there is the application of knowledge, two very different constructs.
Renewable energy be it thermal or electric, should be rewarded based on installed system output. Period. This has never been the case. It is logically irrefutable that it is the real energy output, and only the real energy output of a given system on site over time, that matters to satisfy and displace conventional load. This is where the real valve is measured, both quantitatively and environmentally. All the technology is available, cheaply, to have installed systems energy outputs available for public viewing. This totally transparent energy umbrella would give birth to a resource of data which would prove its value for research, best practices, reimbursement including government payback and other incentives, real world product performance, etc., etc., etc.. The valve of this resource would domino positively in many, many directions. (cont)...
Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
February 4, 2011
Marvin: I agree with you 100%. At the moment, I don't think that the percentage of morally challenged sales people/companies is any higher. Right now, it's probably lower, even much lower.

But you're right about the ones that are bad being able do do more damage. Right now, people know to have their guards up when buying siding or new windows.

When buying solar, they are much more at a disadvantage and being that the industry is still in it's infancy, one bad apple can end up spoiling a whole bunch of what could have been satisfied, happy customers.

Keeping these bad experiences to a minimum will end up helping the entire industry in the long haul! Thanks for your comment!

Paul: I hope so too!

Eauerbach: VERY well said! Thank you!

Liz: The problem comes up that the legitimate solar installers have very little control over people entering the market because it's the current hip and happening thing and way to make a quick buck.

In mortgage banking I saw people who's only qualification to be a "Mortgage Banker" was the fact that they could pay the $500.00 "licensing fee".

I'm not exaggerating at all here when I tell you that I knew people who went from being deli clerks and bar tenders to owning a mortgage company. The story that I told of the gas station clerk is a 100% true story.

Having lived through the rise and fall of the mortgage industry, I can tell you that unless a certain amount of state or federal regulation is put into place, that the solar industry is going to fall prey to the same sort of thing.

I hope not, but mark my words and let's see what happens! ;-)

Thank you for your input too!

Bob "Free As The Wind" Mitchell
Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
February 4, 2011
Bill (cont): The type of regulation that I'm talking about is really quite simple;
1) Require that salespeople and companies be able to demonstrate knowledge and competence.
2) Require that companies be able to secure a surety bond (in an amount great enough to cover all the company's installations) so that in the event that a company doesn't do as they should have, that the consumer won't get hurt.

Neither of these items should prove financially burdensome to a legitimate company.

Regarding the puppeteers...well, while I see your point, I am glad that we have them...even if they aren't perfect. If you don't see the need for them, read about what the meat slaughtering industry was like before regulation or think about how much cleaner our air and water is since the advent of the EPA. Not perfect by any means, but they do serve a purpose. Thanks for your comment!

Pam: I don't think that being a "proven closer" and being passionate about renewables are mutually exclusive. I'm an unabashed capitalist and frankly view renewable energy as both a way of making the planet healthier and where I can make a bunch of money!

Regarding your question about my knowledge of electrical theory giving me a competitive advantage over a pure sales person? I think that it will, but I will never underestimate the stupidity of people in general.

I can't tell you how many times I lost out on a mortgage transaction because the customer was greedy and WANTED to believe something that simply wasn't true. I'd even go as far as showing the customer my wholesale rate sheets that showed that I was paying more than the other lender was quoting them.

I know that this sounds mean to say, but people are greedy and greedy people are stupid. Ask me about my famous, "Fxckyou" fee sometime. You'd be surprised by how many people gladly paid it over the years! Thanks for your perspective!

(cont)
Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell
February 4, 2011
Stephen: I agree that it's not a major problem now, but having talked with several companies now in my search, I can see it happening. I'd say that about a third of them have been more interested in my closing ability than in my knowledge of the field.

I disagree with you to a certain extent about people gravitating to the more reputable companies. While some will, a lot will be taken in by slick marketing and mass advertising campaigns and not bother to look beyond initial appearances.

I understand why some legitimate companies would be against additional regulation, but in the long run it will serve the legitimate companies well.

Using my example of the mortgage industry, wouldn't it have been better for the legitimate companies to have suffered a bit more regulation than to have had all the scheisters flood into the market?

Thanks for your input!

Clean: I'm all for entrepreneurial ventures having started two companies and am a firm believer that a Mom and Pop shop can do an excellent job. That said, I don't think that it's asking too much that any company (or salesperson) be able to demonstrate a basic level of knowledge and competence.

Thanks for your comment!

Bill: I'm with you as far as being skeptical of regulation...I definately think that you have to consider the source of these regulations and if they are simply being used as a veiled attempt to drive up the cost of production.

Again, back to my Mortgage Banking example, after the initial crash (but before the banks started falling) the banking industry attempted to blame the entire crises on Mortgage Brokers and the laws that were put into effect did little to actually address the real reasons behind the crisis.

All they did was to do as you suggest, to drive up the cost of production for mortgage brokers so that banks could be in a better position. This isn't the type of regulation that I'm talking about.....(cont)
Liz Merry
Liz Merry
February 4, 2011
I agree with Marvin. Due to solar's still-young place in the market, customers who buy it are Early Adopters. They want a lot of information about the product before they buy, and they spread the word far and wide after they buy. Which is great when their experience is good, but can pollute an entire region against solar when the customer feels jilted.

It's up to solar installers themselves to police their markets. It has to be o.k. to "call out" slimy sales tactics and poor installation methods.

Salespeople who are in this for the long-term need both sales and solar-sales training. I recommend reading through NABCEP's study guide http://ht.ly/3QtSd to grasp all the pieces involved in photovoltaic sales. Then take a course from a reputable group like Solar Energy International to begin establishing these skills.

[Full disclosure: I am an instructor for PV206, SEI's Business and Sales online course.]
Ezra Auerbach
Ezra Auerbach
February 4, 2011
I think Mr.Mitchell and many of the comments are on point. One of the quickest and surest ways to kill an industry is to oversell and under perform. The NABCEP PV Technical Sales Certification is a direct response to this risk. It was developed, at the behest of industry stakeholders, on the basic premise that no installer, even the best NABCEP Certificant, make a poorly designed system work in a manner that will ultimately prove satisfactory to the customer.

It is more or less impossible to test or certify ethics or good behaviour. So in that regard any credential will fall short of perfection. The new NABCEP Certification does, however, provide a framework that as much as is possible ensures the accurate presentation of the costs and benefits of the proposed system. The core of the credential is the Job Task Analysis. Any individual certified or not who brings the knowledge and skill described in this document to the "sales table" will be able to offer the consumer a reasonable expectation that: their site will be properly evaluated; appropriate equipment will be recommended; and honest and accurate performance and payback numbers will be presented.

Writing on behalf of NABCEP I am pleased to say that this certification is being very well received by the industry. Educators are stepping up and developing courses to help prepare for the exam and employers are supporting their sales staff that are eligible to take the exam.

Quality assurance starts with the sales process and continues on to the installation and the after sales service. Ultimately we believe that a consumer that has a system sold to them by a qualified and certified PV sales person and then installed by a certified and appropriately licensed tradesperson will have a greatest likelihood of a positive outcome. These are the kind of results our industry needs to thrive and grow. We are proud to be a part of helping this happen.
Paul McGill
Paul McGill
February 4, 2011
All the more reason for the new NABCEP PV Technical Sales Certification. Hopefully, it helps separate the wheat from the chaff.
Marvin Hamon, P.E.
Marvin Hamon, P.E.
February 3, 2011
I don't see the percentage of morally challenged sales people being higher in solar than in any other construction industry. But in solar I think a burned customer is able to do much more damage to the industry than say a customer burned by a bad siding install can do to the siding industry.

Solar is big news and any problems are going to be blown out of proportion. When I talk to people about solar I still run into a fair number of people who have heard from someone they know about a solar project that went wrong, how solar does not work, and how it was over sold. This kind of information circulating around matters and hurts our industry in a way that is out of proportion to the number of bad sales that our out there.

Just remember that solar thermal folks are still coming up against the bad press from the 70s and 80s, over 20 years ago and it is still something that people run into during sales talks. My brother in law still regales people with stories of the poor performance of the solar thermal system his family had. My sister's neighbor has an off grid vacation home and loves to tell people how PV is just a hobby because his system has serious problems in the design that have never been fixed.
Pamela Cargill
Pamela Cargill
February 3, 2011
Hi Bob,

I watched this transition take place in the companies I worked for in the Northeast as they became larger; the face of the sales staff changed from enthusiastic and charismatic young people passionate about the promise of renewables to quarterly sales quotas and seasoned sales professionals from other industries with backgrounds in multi-millon dollar deals.

I want to feel good about solar just as much as the next supporter or advocate, but as many of these solar installation companies get bigger, they need proven closers out there on the front lines to ensure that the cash flow stays positive, crews stay busy, and overhead costs get covered.

I guess the question I have for you is this: do you think understanding the difference between an amp/volt will give you a competitive edge over, say, someone who has been trained in the Sandler Selling System when you are up against each other for the same customer?
William Fitch
William Fitch
February 3, 2011
Hi Free:

I kind of find your post funny...

Money is the only thing that the system counts, so naturally everything else will take second place until it effects first place. It has always been that way... its just in the past generations, there was an unspoken set of ethical rules that help to mitigate the base problem of a world based on currency.
Now all the ethics have dropped away for various reasons, (the medical profession was the last to fall) so currency rules...
You need to strip away your illusions.
As for regulations the way they are being done, it only will strangle the industry, drive up prices, keeping that old mainstay, "its too expensive" in play until the conventionals can reap every last dollar of profit... but, that's all by design...
I think a fundamental question to ask is, "why do people keep looking at the puppets for answers, complaining to the puppets with their grievances and continue to have faith in the puppets for long term survivability?
Does not it make sense for the masses to seek out the puppeteers?

.....Bill
Casey Tomasi
Casey Tomasi
February 3, 2011
I am a design engineer and sales guy for off-grid RE systems in California and the standards for solar companies in my area are pretty high. A problem arises when say a general or electrical contractor takes an installation job. Typically they come in to have a system designed and sold to them and expect a complete thorough education on tricks of the trade, incentives and how to process them, permits and lots of random stuff involving installation.

My job is to sell stuff, but more than anybody, I need the industry to have a strong reputation. So I end up spending a lot of time educating folks about RE, sometimes from the ground up, maybe sell 'em a book or two.

For off-grid folks I don't mind at all, I rather enjoy teaching them how cool this stuff is and how to DIY. But anything that interacts with the utility is subject to significant protocol and should be performed by a trained, qualified, and maybe even certified professional.

On one hand I am for standards, on the other, I support entrepreneurs and DIY's. But overall, the final decision is up to the consumer and as with any trade; research, referrals and a little digging will keep the standards high.
Stephen Lacey
Stephen Lacey
February 3, 2011
I just don't see this as a major problem. Will it be somewhat of a problem? Yes. But a big one? Probably not.

I think that as the industry expands, you are inevitably going to have more scheisters who join in. But we're starting to see reputable, well-branded businesses form now. Customers will gravitate toward companies that have a good track record and who aren't just out to get a quick sale.

States are also creating standards around who can install solar -- potentially keeping bad businesses out of the market. (However, I think some of these standards anger a lot of legitimate installers too).

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Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell

Bob "The Clean Energy Guy" Mitchell

After a successful career in real estate and mortgage banking, I reinvented myself in the renewable energy field. With a Certificate in Applied Sciences - Renewable Energy Technology from Columbia Gorge Community College in The Dalles Oregon...
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