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Electric Vehicles Are Here: But is the Jargon Really Helping?

By Craig Shields
November 28, 2010   |   18 Comments

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18 Reader Comments
Comment
1 of 18
November 29, 2010
How about, "Tail Pipe, or NO Tail Pipe"? Seems Simple enough for me! :)
Comment
2 of 18
November 30, 2010
There is nothing confusing to the average consumer about a PHEV. What is not helping is the false incentives of this clearly non-viable technology.

The Volt is a $41,000 vehicle which doesn't outperform or have any significant advantage over a $25,000 Prius, but does have ~5 ft3 less passenger space and ~12 ft3 less trunk space.

So we're asked to believe that it's worth $16,000 (plus additional interest, plus additional insurance) for the right to plug in the vehicle and switch some portion of the fuel from petroleum to coal (both cars have an estimated ~50 mpg rating when using gasoline).

What you find is the Volt saves ~$50-$300/year over the Prius, depending on driving habits and the cost of electricity for a given driver. Also depending on driving habits, the Volt may reduce overall CO2 emissions by as much as 1-5 tonnes-CO2/year. So best case you're looking at a 15-year longevity vehicle which costs the driver an extra $1000/year and saves ~5 tons CO2. (this is, again, not including extra interest and insurance costs... and the Volt would be responsible for far more SO2, NOx, and mercurides emitted).

Now, if the prospective buyer was to spend $1000.00 of his/her own money investing in wind projects, they would see a positive return on their investment, reduce carbon emissions by a net ~25-40 tons-CO2/year, and dramatically reduce SO2, NOx, and mercuride emissions...

Clearly, buying a Prius and investing in alternative energy (or insulation and other efficiency improvements), is FAR better in all aspects than wasting your money on an overly hyped compact car.
Comment
3 of 18
December 1, 2010
Why don't we keep it really simple and refer to oil burners and coal burners.
Comment
4 of 18
December 1, 2010
Fossil fuels are fossil fuels. If you burn coal to generate electricity, then it is a coal car. Like John said. Now if we could just begin generating all of our electricity with hydro plants, all this electric car hype would have meaning ...
Comment
5 of 18
December 1, 2010
John P and Tim G,

As usual, it is not that simple. I live were our power is 100% hydro so my EV would be a water burner, but if I were to put up solar panels then I would have a sun burner. Let's see then there is the possibility of wind, wave, nuclear and geothermal.

What would the Volt be if it had a diesel engine instead of the gas and burned biodiesel? I expect to see this type of set up very soon. Or for that matter my VW TDI burning biodiesel?
Comment
6 of 18
December 1, 2010
Advanced Alternative Energy Corp. of Lawrence Kansas has plans for offering a line of 2, 3 & 4 wheel total electric vehicles that can run on plug in power for commuting all week long and on the weekend when the vehicle is to be used for a trip that is too long in distance for a single charge can be converted to a gas electric hybrid in under 5 minutes. For a picture of our first prototype send an email to LBlevins@aaecorp.com and you will receive a photo by return email.
Comment
7 of 18
December 1, 2010
They already have a term for the Volt. It's called a plug-in hybrid.

The term has been around for many years to describe a Prius that has had a kit installed to give them more batteries and all electric capability. Seattle has a small fleet of them they have been testing for about three years now.

The fault is with GM's marketing. They wanted to distinguish the Volt from other plug-in hybrids so they have been marketing it as an electric car. Everyone has called the Volt an electric car, until now.

And no, hybrid is a word for any vehicle that uses more than one power train. A Prius has an ICE and and electric motor. It is a hybrid. The Volt is also a hybrid with the capacity to plug in to charge extra batteries.
Comment
8 of 18
December 1, 2010
@glenn-doty
Your critique, which, by the way, seemingly deliberately tries to lead people to believe the grid is 100 percent coal, which it most certainly is not in many places in the U.S. -- compare the grid mix of Washington State 3/4 quarters renewables to W. Virginia, yes, close to 100 percent coal -- covers some scenarios. But not all. It certainly does not cover ours -- and we're not alone.

We'll be buying a pure EV first and powering it with electricity generated by a home solar system. In a few years, we'll ad a Volt, or a similar car, and, 90% of the time, run it in pure battery mode (because we rarely drive more than 30 miles per day), again, on home-solar generated electricity.

This will mean that instead of filling up two gas tanks every two weeks (we have 1992 Acura Integra and a 1994 Toyota Camry), we will, in the end, fill up one gas tank once every two to four months -- but still have the same mobility that our family of four requires.

We could not go to 90% gas-free, 90% solar-charged driving with a Toyota Prius/hybrid. Which is exactly why we'll be buying a pure EV and, down the road, a PHEV, hybrid electric -- or whatever you want to call it -- instead of one, or two hybrids.

Goodbye Big Oil -- hello clean air! And, BTW, hello big-time economic savings too!
--Christof Demont-Heinrich
Editor & Founder, SolarChargedDriving.Com
Comment
9 of 18
December 1, 2010
John Peterson said:

"Why don't we keep it really simple and refer to oil burners and coal burners. [?]"

Because John, we would not even be halfway right. Less than half of our electricity comes from coal and that percentage is falling every year:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epa/images/figes1.bmp

Also see:

"Securities Lawyer Mocks Electric Vehicle Enthusiasts--Gets Mocked Back"

http://biodiversivist.blogspot.com/2010/09/securities-lawyer-mocks-electric.html

Biodiversivist
Comment
10 of 18
December 1, 2010
We have requested that "Plug in America", provide links to vehicles (cars, trucks, bikes) that have the ability to specifically be charged using solar type canopies. We have also requested that they provide a web page dedicated to links showing the hundreds of companies around the country that offer carport type canopies for solar charging.

Vehicles (cars, trucks or bikes) that utilize swappable batteries should be in their own category also.

http://www.pluginamerica.org/vehicles

The canopy companies using solar as a primary source (especially those using primarily robotics for mass production) could also be highlighted. Clean manufacturing methods -building clean vehicles.

Is there a web site with a more comprehensive listing of EV's?
Comment
11 of 18
December 1, 2010
@electric38 --
Plug In America has one of the best listings of electric vehicles. PlugInCars.Com is also solid.

One a different note, have you checked out SolarChargedDriving.Com

We're the only site on the web devoted exclusively to covering and promoting the synergy between solar energy and electric vehicles. We've got a lot of info on this, not to mention lots of stories/columns, on the solar energy + electric car synergy -- more than anyone else on this specific topic.

-- Christof Demont-Heinrich
Editor& Founder, SolarChargedDriving.Com
Comment
12 of 18
December 1, 2010
Christofheinrich and Russ-finley,

We aren't discussing AVERAGE electricity demand. We are discussing the MARGINAL effects of increasing (or decreasing) electricity demand.

There's very little spare capacity for either nuclear or renewable electricity generation. Period. In the case of Washington state, where 3/4ths of the electricity is generated by renewable energy (mostly hydro), there is 0 MWs of unused hydro capacity... So if you add new demand to the system, that energy will absolutely come from fossil sources - mostly coal since that's far cheaper than natural gas.

In the case of the home PV system (kudos, btw... that's extremely expensive, but I'm glad to see people making the investment nontheless), you have the potential to reduce fossil-derived power by providing excess energy back into the grid. The energy that you offset will certainly be fossil-derived... though in that case there would be some natural gas offset as well, depending on whether the excess was produced during the day or during the night (home solar generation accounts for less than 0.01% of grid energy, so this minor caveat involving a rare specialized case does not impact my blanket statement for almost all considerations). By choosing to power your car with your solar-derived energy, you are decreasing the amount of solar derived energy available on the grid. As is the case in Washington, there isn't excess carbon-neutral capacity available, so the energy you use to power your car would have to be supplied by fossil energy - since there's plenty of excess capacity there.

In short, it really is a question of petroleum vs. coal, regardless of your energy profile, because we're talking about MARGINAL changes to demand, not AVERAGE demand.
Comment
13 of 18
December 1, 2010
Glenn said,

"...In short, it really is a question of petroleum vs. coal, regardless of your energy profile..."

Look at this pie chart again:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epa/images/figes1.bmp

You are saying that the only portion of it that will grow is coal which would buck the existing trend. Coal and oil are the only parts of that chart that have been decreasing.

And if our government and society can't move away from coal then the entire argument for "and" against electric cars as a way to reduce greenhouse gasses becomes moot. They are still the most effective way to reduce the oil trade imbalance:

http://alttransport.com/2010/09/electric-cars-are-the-best-way-for-cutting-us-oil-imports/

To replace coal and oil, more and different sources of electric energy will have to be built, solar, wind, nuclear. The electrification of industry and the economy has been ongoing for many decades. Electric cars will accelerate that trend.
Comment
14 of 18
December 2, 2010
Russ,

That chart merely demonstrates exactly what I've said. There is spare capacity, or unused potential, in coal plants.

When someone puts up a wind turbine, that offers some renewable energy. That renewable energy is immediately available on the grid, and the power companies must respond by tamping down - or reducing the capacity factor - of their coal (and natural gas) plants.

However, when NEW demand - such as 8-10 kWhs/day from an electric car - comes online, the wind turbine is already producing 100% of the energy that it has the potential to produce... so the power company is going to ramp up their coal plant - the one they had previously tamped down - in order to fill that demand.

We ARE replacing our coal infrastructure.. but it's at a terribly slow pace. The reduction of energy demand (so called "negawatts") have been the most significant means by which we have reduced our reliance on coal. It may take 4-5 decades for alternative energy options to gradually supplant coal for our electricity. Offering additional demand will only slow that transition.

Coal is far dirtier than oil, by every measure... so if you offer an extremely expensive option for us to switch from oil to coal, I believe that to be a very bad idea.

I actually know that it's a bad idea.
Comment
15 of 18
December 2, 2010
Glenn,

"..That chart merely demonstrates exactly what I've said. There is spare capacity, or unused potential, in coal plants.."

No it doesn't.

"...However, when NEW demand - such as 8-10 kWhs/day from an electric car - comes online, the wind turbine is already producing 100% of the energy that it has the potential to produce... so the power company is going to ramp up their coal plant..."

No they aren't. They will turn on some peaking and load following power plants.

Almost all coal is used in base load power plants, which run at full capacity all of the time. They can't be ramped up or down. They don't have spare capacity. When more power is required it is met by peaking and load following power plants typically fueled by something other than coal, mostly natural gas.

These types of power plants can be turned on and off rapidly to meet extra demand.

The extra electric power needed by electric cars will initially come from these power plants, not coal. These mostly natural gas power plants are also the ones that will be turned off by wind and solar power plants when the wind blows and the sun shines.

Coal has to be replaced for base load power, electric cars or no electric cars, with a combination of gas, wind, solar, and nuclear.

"I actually know that it's a bad idea."

I actually know that it's a good idea. Wind and solar turn off peaking power plants. They do not turn on coal fired base load power plants. There is enough spare capacity in the grid for 70 million electric cars.

Everyone who knows what they are talking about knows that intermittent renewable will become a problem when it exceeds the capacity of our peaking and load following capacity. That's why we need a smarter grid and to replace coal with gas and nuclear, base load and load following.
Comment
16 of 18
December 2, 2010
Russ,

Peaking plants are used to ramp up power during the day, or "peak power demand period". That's when all these overpriced golf carts are going to be ferrying people to work and back. If people did plug in during the day, you would be correct, and mostly natural gas would be used to fuel the vehicle.

That is not what is going to happen.

People will plug in their cars at night. If they have wasted money on a smart-grid box for their house, then they will use a timer switch to be absolutely sure that they are drawing power at night. The coal power plants absolutely do tamp down at night, and they absolutely do have spare capacity at night in most regions.
The power company will not fire up their peaking plants (many of which are pulverized coal, btw) to accomodate a few plug-in cars... they will simply adjust the mass flow in their coal power plants.

As for the ludicrous statement concerning "70 million electric cars"... that's too dumb to even bother responding to - and yes I know you're simply parroting the lithium battery lobby.

The itermittent issue involving renewables does't go away with a constant increase in demand... though it could, theoretically, kick the can down the road a few years. Electric cars would likely end up adding to the problem, as there is now constant pressure from Nissan and other electric car companies to add daytime recharging stations in parking lots. This is just going to make things worse. What you need in order to address the itermittency of wind is a load-following DEMAND. (To see an actual solution, both for grid stability in high wind energy penetration and for true carbon neutral transportation see: www.WindFuels.com).
Comment
17 of 18
December 2, 2010
"...overpriced golf carts..."

I recently test drove the Leaf. It is anything but a golf cart:

http://biodiversivist.blogspot.com/2010/11/nisson-leaf-test-drive.html

And that Tesla you see in the video will out accelerate any sports car money can buy.

"..The coal power plants absolutely do tamp down at night, and they absolutely do have spare capacity at night in most regions..."

Only peaking and load following power plants, which do not use coal, "tamp down" at night. They would do less "tamping down" when needed to charge cars at night. Why would any base load coal power plant have spare capacity? That makes no sense.

"...peaking plants (many of which are pulverized coal, btw)..."

Until you provide the percentage of peaking power plants that use pulverized coal, with citation link, I'll assume your definition of "many" is my definition of a very "small" percentage.

"...As for the ludicrous statement concerning "70 million electric cars"... that's too dumb to even bother responding to - and yes I know you're simply parroting the lithium battery lobby..."

Dumb, ludicrous? Not adjectives I'd use to describe the authors of a peer-reviewed journal published in the journal Science--Ohlrogge et al. Alert me when your rebuttal gets accepted.

"...The itermittent issue involving renewables does't go away with a constant increase in demand.."

Having never said such a thing I'll have to categorize that statement as a strawman. That issue will be resolved to one degree or another by engineers and entrepreneurs. None of us are qualified to predict the winning strategies.

"..What you need in order to address the itermittency of wind is a load-following DEMAND.."

So, you are not against wind power, you are just against electrification of transport. I visited the website, which proposes using wind to power synthetic liquid fuel refineries, to power 20% efficient ICE cars?

Ideas like this are a dime a dozen. Call me when they do their IPO.
Comment
18 of 18
December 4, 2010
You're forgetting to factor in the cost of replacement batteries. How long do the batteries last? Ten years? Less? And it's my understanding that they cost thousands of dollars to replace. I would rather wait for a fuel cell system. In the meantime, I am going to continue using mass transit.
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