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GM and the Chevy Volt -- Can They Be Trusted?

By Craig Shields
October 28, 2010   |   25 Comments

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25 Reader Comments
Comment
1 of 25
October 28, 2010
I have garnered a dislike , not for the GM that foolishly produced that ridiculous EV1 way back when, in the stone age of EVs, a car destined to failure from the onset, but the "new and responsible GM that went bankrupt in order to get Fed laons, screwing millions of retirees and their retirement funds by making GM's stocks and bonds worthless. I could easily do 30 minutes on why Who Killed the Electric Car? is the most inaccurate "documentary" ever produced, showing how closely it follows the techniques used by the Nazi's in their anti-Semitic films put out by Goebbles and company. Craig Shields is a person best described as gullible , accompanied by a healthy dose of paranoia. Any comparison between the EV1 and the Nissan Leaf just introduced will clearly show that GM
had a flop on their hands from the word go. At least 5 times more expensive, and witrh a driving range barely more than half the Leaf's 100 miles, the EV1, should never have been built in the first place. Originally called the Impact, the EV1 laid around GM's development studios for years, testing its systems and waiting forelornly for someone to introduce a practical battery. In spite of the fact that that never happened, GM decided to lease the EV1(no one could possibly afford to buy). Because of the film's rabid anti-GM producer/writer, this silly epic failed to note the presence of electric vehicles from Toyota and Honda, both of which
eventually followed in the footsteps of GM's EV1 on the road to oblivion. Hollywood has NEVER gotten any historical event right (save the Longest Day), but Who Killed... achieved new heights of irresponsibility. Goebbles would have been proud.
Comment
2 of 25
October 28, 2010
I'd sure be more comfortable with both GM and the Volt if it followed the Prius business model: shut the H..l up, put it out there in the showrooms. Sooner or later gas prices go up, and people go: Hey! I want one of THOSE!

Instead we get all this hype and promises, to the point where the REAL Volt is almost guaranteed to disappoint. At which point GM (if the past is any guide) will whine about anti-American bias...
Comment
3 of 25
October 28, 2010
It's a $41,000 car that performs like a $15,000 car. Even with the taxpayers (unhappily) paying $7500, it becomes a $33,500 car that performs like a $15,000 car.

Shifting energy from petroleum to coal doesn't help the environment much, regardless of the efficiency gain in the motor (remember that coal-based power is only ~40-45% efficient for the best plants out there, and coal is more polluting/unit energy than gasoline).

So you're asking people to pay a ~20,000 premium (while forcing taxpayers to pay an additional $7500 premium), in order to do very little good for the environment. ... ... ...

For those who have done a more in-depth review, it works out to costing ~$1200/tonne-CO2 that is saved if you compare purchasing this car to purchasing a Prius (of course, the Prius has much more passenger room and trunk space, so it's not apples-to-apples).

If you were to instead purchase a Prius (net savings to you: ~$12,000; net savings to taxpayers $7500), and use the money that you save to invest in a wind farm in a good wind region, and use the money that the taxpayers save to encourage better home insulation... You would reduce CO2 emissions by ~33 times as much over the next 15 years, and you would net far better personal returns, AND the wind farms would still have ~25 years of carbon reduction left, while the insulation might have another 50 years of carbon offsets remaining.


Eventually, the alternative energy community is going to have to look honestly and critically at the incredible stupidity of electric cars.
Comment
4 of 25
October 28, 2010
Hi:

Man, I thought I was pessimistic!!
The electric car concept is incredibly brilliant!!
What a revolution to be able to fuel your car at home with pure solar or wind generated energy!!
Take 100 steps backwards.
Imagine, engineering a personal transportation device that you HAVE to take somewhere to put energy into it. So, if you are home and have no energy in it, your out of luck. Oh wait, you can get in one that has energy, go elsewhere to bring energy back!! REAL SMART!! The ONE place you should be able to acquire energy for a personal transportation device is AT HOME!!
You say,"Eventually, the alternative energy community is going to have to look honestly and critically at the incredible stupidity of electric cars."
How about getting YOUR eyes out of your AH.. and wake up!!

.....Bill
Comment
5 of 25
October 29, 2010
Mr Fitch I think you are in for an 'electric shock' please stop living in the past.The internal combustion engine will very soon be history. We are living in an electronic age and our vehicles will be powered by electricity either by batteries or fuel cells or a combination of both. The automobile is about to be reinvented and yes I know a lot of people will not want to give up their 'Chitty Chitty Bang Bang's but in time they well get used to the idea, it's what you call progress.
Mike H. founder HYDROGENHEADS.
Comment
6 of 25
October 29, 2010
Hi #5:

Huh??
I think you addressed the wrong person....

.....Bill
Comment
7 of 25
October 29, 2010
As someone pointed out, you need to consider how the electricity you put in your car is produced (i. e, does the energy come from a coal plant?). You should also consider how the battery is produced (mining?) and disposed of (hazardous chemicals).

We should be rational and objective in our decisions. All conventional cars and not evil and all electric cars are not necessarily good in my opinion.

John
Comment
8 of 25
October 29, 2010
William Fitch,

Do you garden your own food? Raise your own animals for slaughter? Raise sheep for wool? Grow cotton? Make your own clothes? Make your own soap? etc...?

No?

Nor does anyone else. With the exception of a few people who simply enjoy one of these options as a hobby, society has long ago accepted that these needs can be provided more efficiently when done at a central large-scale facility.

The same is true of energy, and as long as centralized energy is more cost effective, then people won't have a problem making a 2-minute pit stop at a dedicated location to fuel their car. What they WILL have problems with is paying too much money for a tiny vehicle that doesn't noticeably help the environment.

It's just flat-out DUMB.
No image available
Comment
9 of 25
Anonymous
October 29, 2010
Why the hate for the EV1 and GM? There may have been a few interested in the vehicle, but there certainly wasn't mass appeal. GM lost 1 billion dollars on the EV1. Do you blame them for not pushing another EV at the time? Unlike the Government, GM is in it to make a profit.

You may say that the EV1 was a joke - well so was the first computer that took up and entire room and was not nearly as powerful as the computers that come with disposable McDonald's toys today. Should the early computer adopters not have wasted their time because the computer was a joke?

Don't hate the EV1, Volt, Prius, or Leaf. They're all like the first computers - the first step of a technology revolution. Though I don't believe the IC engine is going away in my lifetime, I do believe that the transportation companies are going to make much more efficient vehicles utilizing the IC engine as part of teh powerplant.

As I always caution people: when solve one problem you create another. The reason people went to the IC engine in the first place was because of pollution - there was too much manure in the streets!
Comment
10 of 25
October 29, 2010
@theBike - Did you just really compare "Who Killed the Electric Car" to propaganda films by Joseph Goebbels? Nothing like making everyone skip right over you comment right there with that asinine comment. Obviously you have something interesting to add to the conversation. How about saying it in a sane and civil way so that it actually adds to the conversation...
Comment
11 of 25
October 29, 2010
Hi:

#8 that's funny....
nor would I pedal a bike to run a generator to create my own elect or any other process that required massive amounts of MY TIME and MY ENERGY to create elect. But, I would put PV and and a wind gen up to independently collect it so that I can run my home and EV without the obligation to those central facilities and the destruction they are doing to the enviro...

Trying to restate and twist a persons position to create a target for a rebuttal is hardly cleaver....

.....Bill
Comment
12 of 25
October 29, 2010
William,

Massive 1.7 MW wind turbine in good wind regions have an installed levelized cost of energy (LCOE) of ~$40-$50/MWh. Solar panals for your house have an average LCOE of over $400/MWh.

The simple truth is that solar power accounts for less than 0.1% of the electricity in the U.S.

Saying that the electric car is environmentally clean because a person might (but doesn't) have solar panals on his/her house is simply false.

The centralized renewable power is nearly 100% utilized. There's no spare hydro capacity. So if you're tapping into the centralized power system for NEW demand, you're using fossil energy, because that's the only spare capacity available to fill that new demand... So the electric car is extremely dirty. You just get to pay tens of thousands of dollars to have the annoyance of range restriction - while still polluting an almost identical amount.

We didn't stop shearing our own sheep because we saved time, we did it because it was more economical for us to work elsewhere, and buy clothes.

Environmentally, it's more economical for us to buy in on a wind farm or a geothermal plant (even if it doesn't provide our power), and buy an efficient gasoline hybrid than it would ever be to put up solar panals and buy an electric car.

One helps the environment FAR more than the other for the same amount of money... That's the one that any sane environmentalist should support.
Comment
13 of 25
October 29, 2010
I'd like to see electric power lines on all roads & we can all go electric, like old trolley cars...

Yes replacing fossil fuels is difficult & expensive but we must do it.
Comment
14 of 25
October 29, 2010
People,
Electric cars can (and will) be powered by stationary fuel cells, fed with biohydrogen from biomass and your urban waste.
Remember "Back to the Future" DeLorean ?
Yes, this type of renewable energy is coming sooner than you think. Considering the batteries will charge only 6-8 minutes, the charging stations do not have to occupy your garage (it's already cluttered, right ?) but can be a part of regular filling stations.
Comment
15 of 25
October 29, 2010
Ya want way out there? You asked for it.

I cannot emphasize enough how important electric transportation is. The electric vehicles you see now are about as good as the first rock carved wheels were, yes, but the concept is what counts. No, we cannot fuel these things with coal, wind, solar panels, natural gas or nuclear power generated electricity, that is correct. But there is new science on the way people, you will hear about it this coming year. Completely renewable, nonpolluting, environmentally safe and sound, easily accessed, reliable, copious, and it is neither solar or wind, although without solar energy neither us nor this new device would function.
Nicola Tesla said there was enough energy on this planet to last as long as man walked the Earth, and he was not talking about uranium 234, gas or oil.
Also, Drs Duncan and Youngquist from the University of California have made it very clear that oil is not in our future for any more than an additional 20 years max. Study their thesis; its sound research will make the hair stand on the back of your neck. These two guys are not amateurs.
But I am not concerned, because I know the answer … Electricity will replace all fossil fuels! Watch us, we're kicking it off this spring!
No image available
Comment
16 of 25
Anonymous
October 29, 2010
I've installed PV in my home solar thermal for my tub geo thermal for my home heating and cooling and will by an electric car.. First step Put your money where your mouth is. You know the saying pay me now or pay me later Well you have a chance to pay yourself later if you act Now not LATER. The only incentives later will be your electric costs.
As far as Electric Cars the batteries in those cars will be part of the solution for the grid's storage,as they sit in parking lot during the day plugged into the grid.
No image available
Comment
17 of 25
Anonymous
October 30, 2010
Absolutely not... most of their activity is based in effect; not cause. The Volt is a giant PR move whilst they sort out details as they go. Pathetic. As usual.
Comment
18 of 25
October 30, 2010
Hi #12:

I am going to ask you a simple yes or no question.
Lets see if you will answer it with a simple yes or no, as asked.

If you held in your hand, a solution that would prevent your death, would you NOT use it because it was not cost effective?

.....Bill
Comment
19 of 25
October 31, 2010
How about if we do something to reduce the number of people and goods that ever more wildly are roaming the world?
Instead of giving $ 7,500 to buy an electric car that pollutes more than a machine that burns oil, it would be better if the government gives $ 7500 in order to scrap a car and to buy a season ticket for all public transport for twenty years.
It is unnecessary for the government is trying to prop up the General Motors when the Chinese produce and sell the same machines made by GM at less than half price.
As an alternative the government has only another choice: building a Great Wall of America whose destiny is the same destiny of the Great Wall it was built against the Mexican invasion. Fortunately.
The government does it better if gives a small Chinese bus (no more than $ 7500) to all the GM employees encouraging them to spread themselves in USA making the taxi drivers.
Dreaming is free. Isn't it?
Too bad we have to be down to earth and enjoy the governments that help banks that have thrown whole continents into the abyss.
We have banks that have thrown into the dustbin entire continents and the governments have saved them instead of letting them fail.
No surprise seeing the government picking up $ 7500 from the pockets of the americans and putting them into the pockets of GM.
Comment
20 of 25
November 2, 2010
I was disappointed that there is no current report on the actual working experience with the Volt. This article is only looking foreword to driving the car. Call us back when you have experienced the car and have a report on it's serviceability and driving performance.
Comment
21 of 25
November 22, 2010
Way before it enters the market; GM's plug-in hybrid the Chevrolet Volt, having a backup gasoline engine already has taken a lot of beating from media. All sorts of media have criticized the Volt, some called it "a government-backed boondoggle" while some criticized it by calling it "GM's Electric LEMON." The one thing that I really liked about the Volt is that the car had enough room for four people. The acceleration was more than enough. The biggest surprise to us was Volts' handling. It after all is rather heavy car, because it carries all its pieces and bits of both a gasoline-powered vehicle and an electric.
http://www.chevyreview.net/chevrolet-volt-expensive-but-practical.html
Comment
22 of 25
November 25, 2010
The 2011 Chevrolet Volt makes its debut as General Motors' first plug-in gas/electric vehicle.Among the available features are a remote-charging and vehicle-control program that owners can download and run from Blackberry and Apple iPhone cell phones. If you are on a tight budget and looking to save some money on gas then you probably will not Rush out and buy the first few years modelof this car, that is to assume there will be more years then a couple.
http://www.greenautozone.net/2011-chevrolet-volt.html
Comment
23 of 25
November 27, 2010
Does it have a heater and an air conditioner? What happens to the vaunted economy if you turn on the heater and suck 1.5 to 2 kW off the battery? Same thing with air conditioning. At which point the charging engine kicks in and you are driving a $40,000 to $45,000 car that can barely manage to do the same things that you can do with an economy car you could buy at 1/3 the price.

I suspect that the driving public will hang an albatross on GM's neck with the Volt, and GM knows it. Otherwise, it would have been in showrooms three years ago. Instead, all there is press releases, photo ops and editorial opinions.

Do YOU want to make short hop trips all over town when it is 0*F or 100*F with no heat or air?
Comment
24 of 25
December 3, 2010
After years of tweaking, the Volt manufacturing line fired up Tues in Detroit. Chevy Volts could be hard to spot on the streets initially, because General Motors only plans to make 10,000 in 2011. The Chevy Volt has won several awards already and some analysts believe it will change the way individuals think about electric cars. To own a Volt you will probably have to take out a huge installment loan.
Comment
25 of 25
December 23, 2010
The electric car incentive applies to ALL electric cars, not just the Volt. Its not a made for GM incentive and I didn't hear you complaining when tens of thousands of Toyotas were purchased partially because they qualified for hybrid incentives. Why is it everyone has a problem with electric car tax rebates only when a Chevy qualifies? I supposed you only approve of subsidies when they benefit cars imported from Japan.
http://www.carsfind.net
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Craig Shields

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