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September 2, 2008

California Ballot Initiatives: Good or Bad for Clean Energy?

New Hampshire, United States [RenewableEnergyWorld.com]

Californians have a lot of homework to do this fall. With two controversial initiatives addressing renewable electricity and fuels on the upcoming November ballot, voters will have to parse through conflicting arguments about what exactly each would do for the state's clean energy market.

"It's important to get into the details. But unfortunately, it takes a very skilled reader to understand all of this stuff, so I'm hoping that people ask the right questions and take the time to look at the issues."

-- Tony Rubenstein, Clean Energy Consultant

At first glance, the two ballot initiatives seem like they would create nothing short of a renewable energy revolution in California. But upon further inspection, say opponents, the proposed laws could actually hinder the development of renewable electricity and battery-based transportation options.

Perhaps the most ambitious of the two is Proposition 7, which would amend the state's renewable portfolio standard (RPS) to require utilities to generate 40% of their electricity from renewables by 2020 and 50% by 2025. The RPS is currently at 20% by 2010.

If Proposition 7 becomes law, say backers, it will create a “renewable energy renaissance” and finally get renewable energy penetration levels high enough to have a meaningful impact on climate change.

“We're tired of the foot-dragging and the incremental approach to developing renewable energy. This bill shows that we're serious and that we're not going to wait around any more,” says John Thiella, an organizer with the Yes on 7 campaign.

Along with increasing the RPS, Proposition 7 creates a 20-year feed-in tariff for producers of renewable electricity, fast-tracks construction permits for renewable energy facilities and requires the California Energy Commision to designate clean energy zones around the state.

“This is the most ambitious, comprehensive step toward a renewable energy future we've ever proposed,” says Thiella.

But a large number of industry trade groups, individual companies and environmental advocacy organizations are opposing the measure, saying that it could hurt the industry's growth. The language in the initiative is so sloppy, they say, it will create a messy legal situation over what qualifies for the RPS and virtually shut down the state's burgeoning renewable energy industry.

“There appears to be a drafting error in the proposed language of the proposition that would exclude all projects of 30 megawatts and less from being included in counting toward the RPS goal,” says Sue Kateley, executive director of the California Solar Energy Industries Association. “This is a poorly worded law and we just can't support it.”

The central issue is the definition of “solar and clean energy plant.” The measure currently defines such a plant as “any electrical generating facility...with a generating capacity of 30 megawatts or more.” Because that term is used throughout the entire initiative to describe eligible RPS projects, opponents believe that a legal body will interpret that to mean all systems under 30 megawatts (MW) do not qualify under California's procurement obligations.

But Tam Hunt, an attorney with the Community Environmental Council, an organization that supports Proposition 7, says that the arguments by opponents about "clean energy plant" and "clean energy facility" don't take into account that they appear in different codes of the law.

"In fact the 30 megawatt issue is not an issue at all," says Hunt. "It's a complicated issue, but we believe the courts will interpret the plain meaning of clean energy facility, which does not exclude projects under 30 MW."

The complications surrounding the language are what worry the opposition. Other organizations within the industry that are opposing the measure include: The American Wind Energy Association, the Center for Energy Efficiency and Renewable Technologies (CEERT), the League of Conservation Voters, the Union of Concerned Scientists, the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) and Vote Solar. Individual companies such as BrightSource, Cleantech America OptiSolar, Schott Solar and Horizon Wind have come out against Proposition 7 as well.

“Having to oppose something like this puts us in an awkward place,” says Ralph Cavanaugh, Co-Director of the Energy Program at NRDC. “But we think that when voters see such a diverse coalition of renewable energy supporters expressing their concerns, they will understand that this is a flawed initiative.”

Although most opponents praise the drafters of Proposition 7 for their intentions, industry representatives say they were never consulted on the language.

“This was a small group of people putting together a law on something they didn't necessarily know a lot about,” says John White, executive director of CEERT. “They were out to do good, but without industry input, they may actually do more harm.”

Supporters of Proposition 7 say the language is tight and that the 30 MW issue is being exploited by utilities that don't want to increase their procurement targets. Utility companies Southern California Edison and Pacific Gas and Electric are opposing the measure and have thrown tens of millions of dollars behind the campaign to kill it.

“Prop. 7 has no exclusions at all. But this is the big lie that is being promoted by the large utilities,” says Yes on 7's Thiella. “This is part of the lie campaign and we think that voters are going to understand that this is untrue and will reject the disinformation campaign of the big utilities.”

Opponents who represent the industry dismiss those claims. “We want this as much as they do,” says NRDC's Cavanaugh. “But we're not going get anywhere with an initiative like this. We need to do it right in order to grow this market properly.”

While solar and wind companies worry about the potential changes to California's RPS, there are growing fears that another ballot initiative, Proposition 10, will build the market for natural gas-fueled vehicles at the expense of plug-in electric hybrids and battery-electric vehicles.

Proposition 10 authorizes the state to issue US $5 billion in bonds from California's general fund in order to provide incentives for “clean alternative energy vehicles” and research and development of next-generation transportation.

Opponents are labeling the initiative as a “cash grab” for producers of liquified natural gas. Clean Energy Consultant Tony Rubenstein says that the rebates heavily favor natural gas vehicles over other technologies. Because no vehicle currently meets the “ultra high efficiency” requirements laid out in Proposition 10, there can be no rebates handed out for battery-based cars and trucks. Meanwhile, says Rubenstein, there are US $2.5 million in rebates for natural gas vehicles that can be put on the road today.

“It all sounds great on the surface, but when you dig into the language it becomes apparent that the natural gas producers are going to win out on this one,” says Rubenstein. “And while natural gas has proven to be a great fuel for some bus and truck fleets, there are a host of problems that could arise if we rely on it in a broader way.”

Importing more natural gas to fuel vehicles will just keep the country dependent on foreign sources of energy, he says. Also, the volatile price of natural gas opens consumers up to price spikes at the pump.

“This measure is financially backed by T. Boone Pickens' company Clean Energy Fuels, which stands to gain a lot from it passing,” says Rubenstein. “Do we want California tax payers to subsidize the natural gas market at the expense of more promising technologies?”

But Todd Campbell, director of public policy for Clean Energy Fuels, says that interpretation of the initiative is misguided. Proposition 10 will spread the incentives across the entire market, making sure a broad range of technologies gets adopted by California drivers, he says.

“This is anything but a natural gas fuel initiative. It is a Manhattan Project for a whole host of high-efficiency and low-carbon clean alternative fuels,” Campbell says. “Proposition 10 funds approximately 112,000 passenger car incentives that low carbon-fueled vehicles like natural gas or hydrogen fuel cell vehicles cannot compete for.”

In addition, he says, there will be many vehicles on the road soon that will meet the requirements under Proposition 10. Those vehicles include Toyota's plug-in hybrid, the Tesla Roadster and the Chevy Volt.

Like Proposition 7, the debate over Proposition 10 centers around the interpretation of legal language. Rubenstein says it's very important for voters to read the initiatives and make up their own minds about what they'll do for California.

“It's important to get into the details. But unfortunately, it takes a very skilled reader to understand all of this stuff, so I'm hoping that people ask the right questions and take the time to look at the issues,” says Rubenstein.

Indeed, California voters have their work cut out for them. With support for renewable energy and clean transportation at an all-time high, the initiatives on the ballot this year seem like shoo-in. But as concerns grow over their potentially negative impact on the state's market, the choices for Californians won't be easy.

Image Gallery (1)
 
Reader Comments (26)
 
September 2, 2008
Prop 7 does a number of things, including creating a new feed-in tariff for any size renewable energy project. The tariff amount is the market price, so it is not as aggressive as Germany's feed-in tariff, for example, which provides much higher payments. However, Prop 7's feed-in tariff is very similar to the PURPA feed-in tariff that was responsible in the 80s and 90s for over 10,000 MW of cogen and renewables in California. My organization, the Community Environmental Council, has endorsed Prop 7 because we feel that it is, on balance, quite a good initiative, due to its feed-in tariff and many other components. Please email me at thunt@cecmail.org if you'd like more information on this admittedly complex topic.
Comment 1 of 26
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September 2, 2008
Voters on initiatives need what legislators get: public hearings, expert testimony, amendments, reports, etc. The best project for such deliberative process is the National Initiative for Democracy, led by former Sen. Mike Gravel: http://Vote.org. Also http://healthydemocracyoregon.org/ and http://cirwa.org
Comment 2 of 26
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September 2, 2008
Prop 7 is called "Solar and Clean Energy Act" it should probably read Solar and Nuclear energy act, it does not specifically exclude nuclear power and while there remains a moot debate about whether or not Nuclear Energy is "renewable" there is less resistance to labelling nuclear energy as "Clean".

If you want to see an experimental nuclear plant in your backyard, then you'll love Prop 7.

(As I read it)
Comment 3 of 26
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September 2, 2008
Having reread - Prop 7 may not permit nuclear power.
That leaves the concern that the rate of adoption is overwhelming, and might force an early consolidation of technology around a premature technology.
In other words, if PG&E want to install 50M watts of experimental solar energy - can it split the technology risk amongst two companies (say Austra and eSolar) or does it have to go with a single technology. Certainly one would argue there is no reason that a mixed-technology plant is excluded.

I think it's a safe Proposition. If PG&E have a survival mandate to install renewable energy - it might just save the planet. (Not because CA is the problem, but somebody has to develop the technology, and if not CA then who?)
Comment 4 of 26
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September 2, 2008
Here are a few of the problems with Prop. 7:

LOOPHOLES FOR UTILITY COMPANIES - It locks in loopholes that will let the utilities off the hook thereby creating additional uncertainly and risk for developers of, and investors in. renewable energy. The Legislature had rejected putting these off-ramps into statute, but the initiative provides utility companies with several ways to game the system and avoid compliance.

PAPER CONTRACTS INSTEAD OF ACTUAL CLEAN ENERGY - It essentially allows the mere signing of contracts not construction of renewable projects or delivery of actual clean electricity to count towards the statutory renewables requirement. Sadly, we have already seen contracts for highly speculative projects used to justify delays in the actual development of clean energy.

UNNECESSARY COMPLEXITY IN SITING NEW TRANSMISSION FACILITIES – Instead of engaging through the Renewable Energy Transmission Initiative process already underway and addressing genuine barriers to new transmission investment, this initiative adds complexity to the existing regulatory process, limits the time window for public involvement, and potentially reduces community involvement overall. Moreover, the initiative inexplicably exempts decisions on new transmission facilities—even those that would carry some dirty fossil fuel electricity—from an existing statute to promote cost-effective energy efficiency as the highest priority.
Comment 5 of 26
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September 2, 2008
Here are a few more of the flaws in Prop. 7:

COUNTERPRODUCTIVE COST CONSTRAINTS – The initiative creates arbitrary limits on the sale price for electricity from eligible renewable sources, while no such limits apply to less clean fossil fuel generation. This could easily hinder the process of bringing new large-scale renewable projects on line and therefore even jeopardize the state's ability to meet our near-term 20% renewables goal already in statute.

SMALL-SCALE SOLAR PROJECTS DISCOURAGED – It illogically discriminates against smaller clean energy projects, thereby suffocating the development of small renewable projects needed to drive technology advancement in our state. Nearly 60% of utility contracts under the California renewable standard today would fail to meet this arbitrary minimum size requirement and would be shut out of the market. Because small projects are often located closer to load centers, they generally face fewer transmission obstacles and can provide reliability and local economic benefits.

INFLEXIBLE INITIATIVE – The poorly-vetted initiative locks in numerous problems and errors that can only be fixed by a 2/3 vote of the state legislature or another expensive statewide ballot proposition campaign. Unfortunately, getting cooperation for a 2/3 vote in the legislature would be virtually impossible on an environmental issue of this complexity.
Comment 6 of 26
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September 2, 2008
Dan,
I understand some of those complaints, but legislation is never perfect,
It is a compelling initiative for serious progress on energy. I think it would represent a strong move forward and signal the end of toy projects like "small wind", and "small pv" - and I have to say, I think its time to take that step. Small projects fail to inspire and they won't help even if they do get built.
Comment 7 of 26
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September 3, 2008
Even if natural gas was favored (which I'm not sure it is), we don't necessarily need to get it from overseas. We can make our own using municipal and animal waste generated by consumers and feedlots, while also producing as a byproduct very good fertilizer that replaces that made from oil. This is something we're going to need to do anyway, might as well get started!
Comment 8 of 26
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September 3, 2008
Therese,
Prop 7 applies only to Solar energy. NG wouldn't qualify as I read it.
Comment 9 of 26
September 3, 2008
Folks, Prop 7 applies only to renewables, including solar, wind, geothermal, biomass, municipal solid waste, tidal, wave, and small hydro.

Re Dan Kalb's list objections, I respectfully disagree on many of his points raised. I respect the Union of Concerned Scientists and Dan highly, but we have agreed to disagree on Prop 7. More specifically:

Loopholes for compliance: I agree that Prop 7 would be better if it did not allow signed contracts to qualify as compliance under the revised RPS. However, as I write about in my upcoming piece on Prop 7, Prop 7 is more about carrots than about sticks. It provides a number of powerful tools to achieve higher levels of renewables. Enforcing this kind of law, including the current RPS law, is notoriously difficult. Essentially, the utilities have many ways to establish their "good faith" in pursuing the RPS. Given the dynamics between the PUC and the utilities, it's unlikely they'll ever be assessed substantial fines for noncompliance in this area. Ergo: following a carrot approach rather than a stick approach makes a lot of of sense.

Re cost constraints for renewables, I think this is a wise approach. Voters in today's economy would never vote in favor of an initiative that promises to substantially raise rates based on increased prices for renewables. Prop 7 provides some boosts for renewables while limiting the cost impacts for ratepayers. This is smart policy because for an initiative or legislation regarding much higher levels of renewables, cost issues can't be ignored. Like all companies, renewable energy companies are trying to make money. Those of us working on public policy need to find the right balance between promoting policies to encourage renewables while not allowing profiteering to take place at the expense of ratepayers.
Comment 10 of 26
September 3, 2008
Re small-scale projects, this is simply an inaccurate reading of Prop 7. Prop 7 doesn't change the current definition of RPS-eligible projects in any way that matters. There is no 30 MW limitation under current law and Prop 7 doesn't change this feature. The debate gets tricky on this one because the law (current law and new law in Prop 7) on this is highly complex, referring to "eligibible renewable energy resources," "in-state renewable energy generation facilities," "solar and clean energy facilities" and "solar and clean energy plants." The bottomline is that it requires quite a tortured and poor legal analysis to conclude that Prop 7 makes any material changes to current law on this issue. Prop 7's expedited permitting processes do apply only to 30 MW or over projects. But this part of Prop 7 is part of an entirely different Code than the provisions regarding the RPS. Last, the Prop 7 campaign has made it very clear in legal documents and in other documents that it has no intent to change law on this issue. These statements will carry a lot of weight at state agencies implementing Prop 7 and by a court if Prop 7 is challenged on this issue (which is highly unlikely b/c I can think of no constituency that would sue to argue that Prop 7 only applies to 30 MW or over projects).

In sum, my organization thinks Prop 7 is on balance a good initiative that will help us achieve the far higher levels of renewables that we need in our state. We don't have time to waste.
Comment 11 of 26
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September 3, 2008
It sounds like all of the above comments come from experts. As an interested layman voter, where do you suggest I get enough non-propaganda information to make an intelligent decsion?

Is the only way to get anything done in California, to put a proposition on the ballot? Can't our legislature do their job and inact laws that have the correct legal language? I just get frustrated because every election we get bombarded with TV ads that give us little or no helpful information.
Comment 12 of 26
September 3, 2008
Emil, I'm happy to discuss by email: thunt@cecmail.org.
Comment 13 of 26
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Emil, as someone who is more concerned with the environment and the economic health of ratepayers and taxpayers, than with enriching more Big Energy Monopolists, I can tell you this is a disaster.

NO INCENTIVES FOR POINT OF USE RENEWABLES are included - this is a Big Energy giveaway in the extreme, and ratepayers and taxpayers will be forced to pay to build and maintain massive new unnecessary centralized infrastructure and lengthy, destructive power lines - including hundreds of miles through our own homes and neighborhoods, with the eminent domain funds mentioned in the Secretary of State's summary - while these guys go out and destroy millions of acres of intact and working ecosystem for giant power plants. At the end of it, they get to hold us hostage and charge us for OUR sun and OUR wind from plants built with OUR money on OUR land. why on earth would we go for this unless we were completely blinded by the soundbytes (oooh, solar = good!)?

We get NO resources for conservation programs, net zero building retrofits, rooftop PV/thermal/microwind, geothermal heat exchanges, storage solutions, or any of the myriad healthy solutions which will empower and enrich residents while saving our homes and open spaces, even though these solutions are repeatedly shown to be far more successful, reliable, efficient, and eco-friendly. These CSP plants waste billions of gallons of water every year, produce toxic sludge and "salt cake" and most of them run on gas over half the time, not to mention blazing and frying every living thing for 400 feet into the air (tower style), clearing an average of 10,000 acres apiece (which means several additional square miles of dead ecosystem around each of them), and being subject to leaks and other maintenance problems.

You should work for more incentives to get PEOPLE, not Big Energy mercenaries, paid for installing renewables and conservation, and save your house, wallet and open spaces from them!! NO ON 7 AND NO ON 10!!
Comment 14 of 26
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September 3, 2008
I am with Emil, I feel as if I am being taken advantage of, but don't know how and / or by whom. I invested $30,000 of my own money in a 10 kW Solar PV system 5.5 years ago and I have been happy with the results. I was smart / lucky enough to have done this while the CA rebates were simple and still at $4.00 / Watt installed. Now I don't think I could recommend to a friend that they do the same thing. My system will be "Paid for" by the1st of November this year by the avoidance of buying power from PG&E at todays prices for our home. My system has generated 88,164 kWh of electricity as of noon today and I do not know what effect these new laws will have on me.

I have been looking forward to buying a PHEV-40 vehicle as soon as I can get 1 that is a warranted vehicle made by a manufacturer I trust to stay in business. I produce enough power to fuel such a 40 mile range vehicle 95% of the time for our purposes. We are currently averaging $520 a year in lost PG&E credits that would go well to power such a vehicle. When I designed my system, I had intended to power a Toyota RAV 4 EV with it as well as our home

I don't consider
Comment 15 of 26
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September 3, 2008
If there is unclear wording, add some clarifying sentences.

"This proposition does not exclude facilities or plants that produce less than 30 megawatts. "
"This proposition does not include nuclear facilities or plants."
Comment 16 of 26
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September 3, 2008
Tamlyn,

I'm glad to hear your org is in support - I find Prop 7 to be an open race for renewable energy, and an end of PV-as-a-special-interest. PV has done nothing to reduce our dependence on foreign oil - and nothing to reduce the pollution coming out of the TVA into the smoky mountains where it is causing Asthma. It's time for PV to get off the stage, and Prop 7 is a death-knell for PV.

That's why the PV companies oppose it. If PV has to compete with geothermal, tidal, wave, CSP, and in-stream on an equal playing fields, it's lights-out PV. It's time to move forward.

Prop 7 includes:

"(b)
"Eligible renewable energy resource" means ... a solar and clean energy facility ....
"
I suppose it all depends on what the meaning of the word "And" is. One would hope the authors know the difference between "And" and "Or".
Your suggestion appears to be that "Solar" is a completely unnecessary adjective - inserted into the title principally to distract and mislead. Sure why not?

the reference statute says:
(b) "In-state renewable electricity generation facility" means a
facility that meets all of the following criteria:
(1) The facility uses biomass, solar thermal, photovoltaic, wind,
geothermal, fuel cells using renewable fuels, small hydroelectric
generation of 30 megawatts or less, digester gas, municipal solid
waste conversion, landfill gas, ocean wave, ocean thermal, or tidal
current, and any additions or enhancements to the facility using that
technology.
Comment 17 of 26
September 3, 2008
Ben, "In-state renewable electricity generation facility" is the key phrase, as you highlight. So the list of renewables is very clearly laid out in this initiative and it includes all the renewable technologies that currently qualify as RPS-eligible technologies. There is no ambiguity about what "clean" means in Prop 7. "Solar and clean energy plant" is defined in the initiative and refers to the expedited permitting process for projects 30 MW and up and for new transmission lines to serve those projects. Other parts of Prop 7, referring to the Renewable Portfolio Standard, for example, do not contain any such size limitation because they don't change current law on this issue. And current law contains no such limitation.
Comment 18 of 26
September 3, 2008
Stop Killin,

Prop 7 does not negatively impact small-scale renewables ("distributed generation" or DG) because it does not change current law that is very favorable to DG already. The PUC passed just last year a $3 billion program designed to promote small-scale solar power. This initiative, the CA Solar Initiative, is now working quite well despite some initial hurdles and declining rebates. Also, a new solar hot water heating rebate system ($250 million) is just now being created by the PUC pursuant to AB 1470, which passed last year also. The PUC has recently - at my organization's suggestion - required the utilities to work toward zero net energy homes by 2020 and zero net energy commercial buildings by 2030. Last, the PUC is set to approve up to $5 billion in a new three-year funding round for increased efficiency in homes and businesses, saving ratepayers huge amounts of money if done right. Ergo: there are numerous programs already in place, or soon to be in place, that will further help the DG and EE markets. There's more to be done for sure, but there is absolutely no reason to decry Prop 7 for also promoting large-scale renewables for a misperception that it harms small-scale renewables or EE. It doesn't.
Comment 19 of 26
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Tamlyn, although i appreciate the very modest efforts being made in CA, they fall so grotesquely short of the mark, i really can't help but insist that our resources not be diverted to Big Energy at this stage. the fact that point of use system sizes are capped under the CSI so that nobody is allowed to produce more energy than they use, and if they conserve, they are forced to give that power to their utility FOR FREE, serves as a dual disincentive to PV and microwind installations, AND to conservation.

This is, of course, completely counterproductive, since conservation and point of use renewables are by far the best solutions for the planet, homeowners, ratepayers and taxpayers. Factor in that the power is not counted towards the utility's RPS, and is accounted as a "loss," we end up with the utilities intentionally dragging their feet on installations (proven), dragging their feet on meaningful conservation (ditto), and perpetuating a false "demand" level for centralized, utility-owned power.

We need a Feed In Tariff like Germany, Spain, Japan, etc, payable at a multiple of retail, so that people like Jim and the rest of us can afford to install and pay down OVERSIZED systems and contribute the excess to the grid. FITs, massive tax incentives for individuals, and low-interest loans - THAT is the legislation we need now. Once we have covered 50% or more of the built environment with point of use renewables, we can look at brownfields and superfunds near existing transmission for moderate-scale generation, if it makes sense then, but NOT NOW, and NO intact ecosystems should ever be on the chopping block.

I have run the PUC's numbers for their "feed in tariff" program and you cannot pay off ANY sized system, even if you use NO power and build it in the Mojave, within a 15 year contract, so forget the PUC. using your logic, there are plenty of much bigger Big Renewables incentives already (30% tax credit?), so there is no need for more. WE need more!
Comment 20 of 26
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September 3, 2008
Tamlyn,
First I agree with you mostly.
That said - you haven;t explained why so Many PV-oriented companies are afraid of a level playing field - such as Prop 7.

I suggest, by way of explanation, that PV is not competitive, and that PV sees Prop 7 as a shift away from the special treatment it enjoys. Once we have attribute-oriented energy policy, the artificial winners which were hand-picked by fiat, will be quickly seen to have no clothes. PV does not want a fair race with other renewable - that would explain their opposition to a Prop as fair as Prop 7 - which I think for the first time puts all renewable energies on a firm and level field.

I believe Prop 7 will be successful, the best renewable technology - from a production standpoint - will emerge, and the losers will be forgotten.

There is a misconception that the government can make PV cost-effective by subsidizing it. This is stupid. If the Government buys everyone a PV system, it would get that money from taxes. The taxpayer can pay for a few experimental systems, but it really can't fund a full commercialization. In my opinion, PV has been sufficiently subsidized to determine its commercial viability - eh, not so great...
Comment 21 of 26
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September 3, 2008
Ben,

You have been on this forum for a number of months.
You have always expressed the the thought that PV should be killed.
I respectfully disagree. PV for every home owner will eventually force the electric utility monopoly in this country, not just CA, to become simply a guardian, non profit entity that ensures that electricity is used most efficiently where it is needed in this great nation of ours. Utility companies do not wish to go in this direction. They are formed to make a profit, at consumers expense. If they were run as a non profit, like our police departments or other public institutes, the utilities would be supporting PV because it does not impose on raw land but uses the many rooftops in this country that are just waiting to do something other than shade us from the sun.
Comment 22 of 26
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September 4, 2008
Howard,
America's problem is not the "monopolistic Electricity Companies" America's problem is the strategical vulnerability to foreign oil, and the related rise in radicalized "Petro-states" which in turn create conflicting and counterproductive alliances between the major militarized nations. The militarized tensions in Georgia, are an example of the petro-alliances which are forming.

America loses when allies are chosen on the basis of who has oil.

To counter that, America needs to reduce the strategic importance of oil. Not merely its own consumption, but the /importance/ of oil worldwide.

This brings us to the Chindia problem. New energy must be personally affordable in the economies of China and India. Quite simply PV doesn't qualify.

If America cannot reduce the importance of oil, the other choices are to do what Russia is doing, Empire Expansion or sit idly by while the Petro-States and their new Allies take center stage in World Affairs. I'm not sure that Russia-Iran-China as a superpower is the kind of world that would tolerate free speech, or any kind of freedoms.
Comment 23 of 26
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September 8, 2008
In favor of wilderness? Why even own a computer, they suck energy and appear hypocrytical. I'll tell you why, well, you know, for the betterment of humanity. Why the betterment? cause that's our nature (mabey, it's Gods and nature's also?) Now, the object of the game is to try to "better" without destroying nature. If we continue with fossils, we lose, that is, GW and Post Oil Crises. Nature will not win either. (Too many pissed off humans ruin it for HER and the bombs go off). Now, it's time for all ( esp. who care about nature and energy), to collaborate upon the Best solar vision...

The one that will use less energy than that which is already falling on the ground! How can that be? cause the law of thermo states that all energy turns into heat (nomater how efficient). And since the sun bakes the desert anyways, why not convert it into power production in the mean time (you love amperage, period) As for "less energy" I mean that the mirrors used for collection will undoubtedly reflect a small portion (of the sunlight) back into space. Concentrating solar thermal (and CPV) is the only form of power production that has, at the end of its cycle, less heat byproduct, than the input! Seems inpossible, with all the (very) hot reciever temps, ect, but the = area of sunlight is condensed, with some missing, that which is reflected back into the sky. From space, the desert would (somewhat)glisten! Proving that a little INefficiency is good!
With wind, no energy is reflected back to where it came from, but is still neutral (in this heat gain from humanities energy production case). With geo, nuke, fossils, (not including heat from co2) and fusion, the gain is positive (negative in the GW sense), since that heat comes from something that does'nt already heat Earth ('s biosphere as fast as we would make it to).

Negative albedo is something to consider!
The ice caps are depending on us to transform the deserts!
If I can think it, then people smarter can do it!
Comment 24 of 26
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September 8, 2008
I just can't understand why any one (here) would vote no on 7, come on, take the chance, better than less chances at all!

fireofenergy (me) has explained the (basic) faults of the "no" campaign above...

Yes, I want to sell solar panels too. Prop 7 will hurt that. So what! I lose! (I always lose). Prices will fall for green grid and "they" won't need $20k rooftops (anymore). Cause they won't have to "care" anymore. Instead, WE simply pay a few dollars more for infrastructure per month. Now, does this exclude those who "hate" the grid? No, they can still buy my (made from Ebay parts) solar panel! (Or your "even better panels" ?). U no what's really cool? the PV industry will have to "come down" just to compete! Ha ha, then I'll be buying! Cause I like solar lights an a "complete, light the whole yard, pathway" scale! Hope they don't altogether give up, as you know, the price of largescale desert mirrors is far cheaper than contractor (like me) installed painting, oh I mean solar rooftop install. Whoops, the house painter in me came out... I use Dunn Edwards, they're the producers of the best paint!
It is up to us (and prop 7) to marketly decide what is the " bestsolarvision " ...

fireofenergy basicly said, "more heat for humanity, less heat for the planet". Well, let's "plan it for the planet" and try to make it better for (the inhabitants of) the planet too!

I love conservation without limitation! (In other words) Efficiency is good!
I (try not to) hate enviro's that ploy "We must do without!" (meaning "limit thy self"). OK, if you ( reallyeee ) want to limit thy self, it should be ego in that sense, Or other (to obtain) higher objectives, not this planetary power sense or as in, not inforced by law stupid stuff (as no xmas lights in '70's crap). Sure Xmas lights are silly, but, with Light Emitting Diodes, they're noth'n compaired to, let's see... gov waste on WAR for oil.. in Iraq, in deaths per megabarrel...?

Our destiny is to overcome... That !
Comment 25 of 26
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September 20, 2008
So let me get this straight,

Prop 7 will require up to 50% of power to come for Renewable sources or RPS, like wind mills in Texas.

So as California will not actually shut down any power plants, we will just "sorta sell it" to the National Grid but still use it the power in this State from our own power plants.

To meet the RPS, places like Texas will "sell" us power/paper from Wind Farms - like T Boone Pickens farm that is already planned and financed for North Texas. It will provide up to 3% of the nations homes with power or about 15% of California's homes all by itself.

Note not a single carbon producing power plant will be shut down. No new renewable plants will be built, since wind/hydro/solar are already being built to meet this demand without the law.

Prop 7 means we just have to transfer pieces of paper and not actually do anything.

I suppose they're worst laws, but this is fairly worthless.
Comment 26 of 26
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