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Material May Help Autos Turn Heat into Electricity

By Pam Frost Gorder, OSU
July 25, 2008   |   15 Comments

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"We'd been working for 10 years to engineer this kind of behavior using different kinds of nanostructured materials, but with limited success. Then I saw this paper, and I knew we could do the same thing we'd been trying to do with nanostructures, but with this bulk semiconductor instead."

-- Joseph Heremans, Ohio Eminent Scholar in Nanotechnology, Ohio State University.
15 Reader Comments
Comment
1 of 15
July 25, 2008
You may find the article in the Technology Review to have more practical numbers
http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/21125/
Comment
2 of 15
July 25, 2008
It seems from
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/321/5888/554
the dimensionless 1.5 is the "thermoelectric figure of merit (zT)"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect#Figure_of_merit
Comment
3 of 15
July 25, 2008
Hi: Well, it would be nice if they gave some actual numbers that would put it into a practical engineering perspective like, BTU's in - watts out, voltage per unit "cell", etc... Not much use on a ICE engine only vehicle, but, on a PHEV or regular hybrid... that's a different story... maybe...
Comment
4 of 15
July 26, 2008
Alternators; they reduce milage by 2 or 3 mpg. Exhaust generated electricity would, could, might replace alternators and be a tool for improving auto efficiency. You just never know where something like this will lead. This is the kind of article that keeps me reading "Renewable Energy" thank you.
Comment
5 of 15
July 28, 2008
This is good news, but I always treat such breakthroughs with significant critical examination before getting excited. Currently, the major problem with TEG systems is twofold: efficiency, and cost of production. The ~5% efficiency (on a well-tuned system) is very low, and the costs are significant: a typical device (13 watts, 3.5v) is >$10/watt, without including mounting equipment. (http://www.hi-z.com/store.php)

My gut instinct is that costs would have to be dropped by 75% and efficiency at least doubled in order to make these realistic for use in anything other than niche applications, and costs would need to be halved again (or efficiency doubled) to make them "common" in consumer applications.

This article really doesn't speak to the costs of fabrication of this material - does the lack of nanotubes make this a production cost breakthrough? Is the choice of materials cheaper than previous versions? Is it possible to currently fabricate this in large quantities without new breakthroughs in materials? Is there an anticipated interval to a commercial implementation? Is there a company being formed around this technology?
Comment
6 of 15
July 28, 2008
What are those temperatures in real (meaning S.I.) units? Fahrenheit does not mean anything to me, nor does "mpg" or "BTU".
(Most of the world uses the S.I., and the USA is not most of the world)
Comment
7 of 15
July 30, 2008
This all sounds great, but what do you do with the power made from the cars engine? Not being a chemist or scientist I don't really know,but these substances sound very much like what is being talked about for solar cells themselves. The idea of trapping the heat at the solar panel sounds really good to me. I for one am really glad to see American scientist responding to the energy crisis, we do live in interesting times.
Comment
8 of 15
July 30, 2008
This takes a lab idea and adds a flare of grandeur, but if efficencies and cost can both be corrected, what about being used in a geothermal application? That is if the thallium-doped lead telluride isn't as toxic at the thallium itself.
Comment
9 of 15
July 30, 2008
I don't know how bad the price for thallium is but one standard application for this is as poison. Anybody planning large-scale use of it in autos might have to figure out a way to keep it out of the environment.
Comment
10 of 15
July 30, 2008
Anything that will increase the efficiency of the ICE gets my immediate attention, and I hope this can work - and will be cost effective. My biggest concern is about the availability of the large amount of basic materials. Is thallium in great supply. like zinc, or like the materials being proposed for thin-film PV. If this gets developed there will be massive amounts of these materials required.

Perhaps a simpler solution might be to use the excess heat to make steam to power a turbine. We sure need something!
Comment
11 of 15
July 30, 2008
Another application might be as an add on to home heating systems. People who burn wood for heat typically have chimneys that operate at 400-800 F, while some of this energy drives the convection of the chimney, perhaps some could be further trapped for house power. Similarly, forced air gas furnaces have surplus heat that might be salvaged. I haven't done the numbers/cost, but it might be worth a look.
Comment
12 of 15
July 31, 2008
The thermoelectric material mentioned may have an efficiency double the previous best , but there is no clarity at all regarding actual efficiency of the material: that is energy in vs energy out. In short it doesn't tell me a thing.
Comment
13 of 15
August 11, 2008
Why are these articles so poorly written? If they say the material could be used to capture heat from a car and convert it to electricity then why not say something like:
"The average car running at 60mph produces 100MJ of heat per .(time unit).. and this material create 1.5MJ or 0.47 KWh (or whatever the number is!!!) per ..(same time unit).. "

(wiki reference says 2-3 ZT have been achieved.)

Ian
Comment
14 of 15
September 9, 2008
I find these articles very interesting but can't for the life of me understand why scientists in this day and age use F as a unit of measurement. Zerp F was the lowest point in some Norwegians garden and he built it up from there. Just how hot is 800F ???
I too worry about thallium.
Love the idea of my chimney (waste) heat driving my computer though.
pfiddle
Comment
15 of 15
June 29, 2010
hi, this is smith i agree for all comment so i say some more
please check me.
------------
Smith

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