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Storing the Sun: Molten Salt Provides Highly Efficient Thermal Storage

By Julie Way
June 26, 2008   |   30 Comments

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30 Reader Comments
Comment
1 of 30
June 26, 2008
We really need the technology to shift power production to the11 am to 7 pm time frame (or there about) That's the sweet spot for power production. Everybody is using power at the max. Later at night, we have excess capacity and plants are turning down their production.

If molten salt can remain viable just 7 hours after peak sun power (assume noon) then this would be a great success. A high power output when its needed most.

It is kinda visually impaired. I hope they put them way out in the desert - and behind a hill.
Comment
2 of 30
June 26, 2008
Just don't let the molten salt freeze in the lines....I'll bet that heat tracing uses 1 MW of electricity just by itself. Still, this is a great advance. What the article doesn't directly mention is that solar plant owners that invest in this technology can sell their electricity for maybe twice the rate during peaking hours as during non-peak, which is big incentive to invest in storage technology. Dispatchable power is worth much more on the market.
Comment
3 of 30
June 26, 2008
Man I would love to be the owner of this technology. Put a couple up in the southwest, the middle east, australia, and string a line across from europe to africa and you are kicking ass and taking names.
Comment
4 of 30
June 27, 2008
Sounds like alot of water needs to be used as well as wasted. Here in the Southwest water conservation is king especialy when PV can be utilized while conserving water at the same time. Does anyone consider this fact when chiming in from the Northwest? Conservation of all resources is the real key instead of just consuming the crap out of energy no matter how its produced.
Comment
5 of 30
June 27, 2008
Has anyone addressed the issue of corrosion?
Comment
6 of 30
June 27, 2008
Can you put up clearer images for the two mentioned in your article?
Comment
7 of 30
June 27, 2008
Interesting technology and provocative comments.

Wind is mechanical energy which could converted to thermal energy (as in hybrid vehicle systems) as easily, if not more easily, than electro energy. So, why not consider a whole array of wind towers in this kind of molten salt system?

What is disgusting is not the demand for energy, it is the egregious waste of it - e.g., in Hummers, incandescent bulbs, asphalt roofs, etc, etc.

Running out of fossil fuels will be the best thing that ever happened to this planet, especially if nuclear fission technology has also gone the way of dinosaurs (and humans are still around to notice).

Efficient conversion, storage, transmission, portability, and safety are the key issues - but batteries as we know them are about like incandescent lights. Hydrogen makes more sense if those issues can be resolved.

Decentralization of energy production and storage would change entire economies, which is why some powerful entities work hard to see that it never happens.
Comment
8 of 30
June 27, 2008
There are other ways of storing the energy. One could pump a liquid up into a tower, or very large reservoir, using the solar energy, then on an as-needed basis you can let the liquid back down into a storage facility, generating electricity. A closed system can use whatever liquid is best suited to the purpose. The volume of liquid required can be very large thus insuring a relatively well buffered ability to generate power when needed.

I would love to hear what the downside to this approach is. Evaporation will not be an issue in a closed system.
Comment
9 of 30
June 27, 2008
I disagree with the concept of highly limited energy. Yes, we have become very energy dependant, but that does not mean this is always a bad thing. The accomplishments of the human race are based on the fact that we have always been able to find the energy needed to accomplish our missions and dreams. I think this Chicken Little fear of running out of energy has been nurtured by people selling energy, who want to wring every nickle out of their investment as possible. And no better way than to convince consumers of shortages. Yes, there is a fossil fuel shortage in our future, probably fifty years if Campbell, Laherrere, Hubbert, etal are correct. But the solar energy delivered to this planet in the form of wind, water mass movement, and solar directly exceed years of usage at our peak, in a few seconds. Tesla once said energy was so plentiful that it someday would be free. As an investor, I understand the weakness of this theory, but it should not be the lions share of the device, simply an easily attainable, inexpensive piece of a that device. The molten salt is simply another way to accomplish this mission. If I could stand back and select any momunt in time to be a resident on this planet, I would choose now! We are about to accomplish some of the best sciences for mankind, I believe, in the next fifty years! Whatta rush!
Comment
10 of 30
June 27, 2008
Sandia National Laboratories did some work back in the late 70's regarding thermal storage salt ponds...might be worth checking out.
Comment
11 of 30
June 27, 2008
To answer the 3rd comment of John: Currently in Spain the 15 MW central receiver SolarTres is being projected. It will work with a 16 hours molten salt heat storage which enables a 24/7 hours operation (the aperture will be three times bigger than for a plant without storage: one solar field for the electricity production during the day - two solar fields for producing the heat to be stored and used later for electricity generation).
Please see http://ec.europa.eu/energy/res/events/doc/tamme_dlr_storage.pdf for a comprehensive description of storage systems for CSP from DLR.
Comment
12 of 30
June 27, 2008
i like where you comin from tom
Comment
13 of 30
June 27, 2008
I don't see why the heat generating system could not be designed for at least twice the capacity so half could be used to generate steam directly and the other half could be stored by heating salt for energy generation during after sun hours.

adrianakau2aol.com
Comment
14 of 30
June 27, 2008
In the mid 70s my company used a molten salt heat storage system to provide hot water to divers in the N Sea. This system was developed in France in association with the French Navy for use on diver lock-out manned submersibles that had no umbilical connection to the surface.

The unit itself was about 2m long and maybe 50cm in diam... It was "charged" with heat using built in electrical elements powered by the ships generators whilst the sub was on deck.

It generally worked quite well and is certainly not a new technology.
Comment
15 of 30
June 27, 2008
How negative are the words we might choose to use against the very thing that has kept us human beings alive on the planet Earth for thousands of years.

"suffer the limitation of" " an unpredictable operating profile due to weather variations. "

Once again the battle crys sound out against mother nature.
Well, not exactly, but words spoken in haste, have a way of seeping into our minds and creating mental images which in turn can affect our emotions and our outlook at what can only be percieved as a natural order. I mean, what else is there if not natural? A man made order?
What has become unnatural is the human quest for more and more energy as human population futher envelopes the planet Earth.
"Its to hot." "Turn on the air conditioner."
"Its to cold." " Turn up the heat."
"Its to far to walk." "I'll drive."
I could go on and on but the point is, we are "battling" a natural order when we speak (think) in these terms. We have built the foundation of the future of the human race on a wisp of smoke. Billions of people owe there very existance to nothing more than the energies mankind has created, and put up for sale, to combat nature. If it were to go away, they would all die.

"Pssst! Hey man, want to buy some energy man?" "I got some good stuff here man." "This stuff will get you high man, you'll think your Zeus on top of Mount Olympus man. " (When really your just a junky, looking for another fix.)
Just say no, to energy.
Its all of these people that are selling energy, they want you to believe that your life would be pure hell without their stuff. Would it really be so bad without them? Or have you been "brainwashed" to the point that your just a mindless automaton, like a Vodoo witches Zombie, doing what your instructed to do. More energy. More energy. More energy.
Snap out of it! I am tring to talk you down, man.
Pity about Earth.
Comment
16 of 30
June 27, 2008
Hi Colm (Is that Colm from the lboro course?),
I think this is specifically suited for solar thermal, partly because it is already a "thermal" system and a heat transfer mechanism is needed anyway (hence the savings quoted from not having to have so much high pressure piping). I also saw a graph that implied relatively low efficiency for the store. In the end it is as always a cost issue. Solar thermal stores the "raw" energy before efficiency losses in conversion to electricty, therefore efficiency losses in the store are slightly less critical, particularly if (I'm guessing) a lot of the capital cost of solar thermal plants is in the generation side rather than the field of mirrors?? Using it for wind would take the wind energy, convert some of it to electrical output with a high value turbine, lose some more converting it to heat, lose some more due to the storage characteristics and then more still converting back to electrical power. Not good!

The world needs cheap, high efficiency batteries that can be made on a massive scale, (without toxicity issues)!
Comment
17 of 30
June 27, 2008
There are also interrim power buffers that can make the simpler, "unsalted" enterprises work more successfully. Could you imagine the look on the faces of some of the best, brightest, richest investors when they get answers from their reams of pHd's eh, "We forgot the Salt!". Achieving and processing higher temps is absolutely a key to efficiency per Carnot equations. That given, part of the problem stems from the nature of the power block turbines. My company is intent on commercializing, less expensive, more responsive turbines for this industry and others. Aside from decreased costs, shortened delivery times, it opens other routes in power storage. Sannerprojects, Inc JRIAM1945@aol.com
Comment
18 of 30
June 27, 2008
The world is finally waking up to the fact that the greatest challenge with renewable energy is in intermittent nature. And energy storage greatly alleviates this concern. Isn't that why hydro power -- a renewable that's been with us for many decades -- has been so successful (and cheap).

Indeed, in the last year or so a lot of pundits are writing about the exciting developments in energy storage. A recent Lux Research report called it the next "big thing." They tapped the potential for this market at some $50 billion (http://www.redherring.com/Home/24296).

I quite agree on the potential for CSP for mass power generation, but I also note its geographical limitations. For these reasons, there is no 'silver bullet' in electrical generation.

In tomorrow's energy world will see CSP, thin film and PV solar, wind and other renewable technologies making significant contributions within different market sectors and geographical areas.

The good news is that there's been some big advances in actual electrical storage for wind and PV solar power as well...bringing all the benefits of "firmness" and "peak shifting" to these renewables as well. This RE article is a good primer: http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/story?id=52716.
Comment
19 of 30
June 27, 2008
Has anyone heard of an application using the molten salt technology as an energy store for wnd-turbines ? One of the major ocst factors in wind-turbines is handling the varying nature of the wind and ensuring that the electricity produced is permanently voltage-tied and frequency-tied to the grid. With a turbine producing electricity which is used directly for heat, far lower tech, and then the heat converted to electricity at high-demand/high-value times then this could be a beautiful solution.

Has anyone seen smaller-scale examples of this molten-sale technology ?
Comment
20 of 30
June 28, 2008
Co-generated solar/hydro units will be the standard. Solar generates electricity, desalination generates potable water. Drafting surplus sea water to produce both potable water and solar power has the added value that it will redistribute rising sea levels.

We must think about macro-environmental solutions that will incorporate the entire range of available technology. Solar troughs are here to stay. Desalination technology is a moving target. Nano-carbon reverse osmosis filters will displace other membrane systems. Anything designed today will be outmoded by the time it's installed. Macro-environmental systems will always be a work in progress for this reason. But the sooner we start, the better off the future will be.
Comment
21 of 30
June 29, 2008
Actually,
If you think about it, Solar Thermal evaporates water.
Both in process water, and in cooling water.

If you could recapture some of that water, you would have clean potable water to sell.

Now if a Solar Thermal plant could find a good way to team up with a local waste water treatment plant. They could create an additional revenue stream, as well as get access to an inexpensive water supply.
Comment
22 of 30
June 30, 2008
i never hear about flywheels anymore for storage. are they just not technically feasible?
Comment
23 of 30
June 30, 2008
Why not make hydrogen at wind and solar plants, during peak production times. Then use the hydrogen to fuel generators at peak demand times? This might also make hydrogen available for vehicles in more areas.

Ideally, it would make distributed energy feasible. Hydrogen could be used to power neighborhoods or even individual homes.
Comment
24 of 30
Thomas, Dude!

It gets hot in the desert. The energy from the sun is already here. Tapping some of that heat for electricity and moving it somewhere else before turning it back into heat again is not going to ruin the planet.

The sun shines, the wind blows, the waves roll on, whether we use them or not. That's the beauty of renewables: we're living on our energy income from the sun, not our inheritance of stored "ancient sunlight." [phrase borrowed from Thom Hartmann]

True story: energy use does not equal happiness, but it does give us more freedom to pursue it.
Comment
25 of 30
July 13, 2008
I really like the technology being used by Sterling Engine Systems...

http://www.stirlingenergy.com/

They employ the use of Sterling engines...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine

From what I understand, Sterling Engines are one of the most efficient ways to draw electricity from heat being that the engine works off of a heat differential. In my opinion, this molten salt heat storage technology is the way to go for Sterling engine power generation. I may be wrong, but I believe that Sterling engines do not require 1050 F to work at optimal efficiency...they would do just fine at 700 F. Molten salt heat storage is the missing link for this technology.
Comment
26 of 30
July 23, 2008
Brilliant ,perfect for running desalination plants ,almost a closed system.
Comment
27 of 30
July 26, 2008
How does liquid sodium compare with molten salt as a storage medium and as a heat transfer medium ?
Comment
28 of 30
December 28, 2008
Why is it that we keep hearing about how visual unsatisfying renewable energy is? Wind turbines are too big, this solar molten salt plant is too unsightly, NIMBY. Yet we have been putting coal burning plants and nuke plants in areas where the general public can't see these plants and the less fortunate have been living for years. Doesn't everyone realize that there are consequences to our health with these plants because of the emissions or the waste product that is left over? Just because there out of sight doesn't mean there isn't going to be problems down the line, and yet we will shut down the opportunity to use a renewable energy producer because it looks unsightly? Please look at the big picture!
The people who complain the most about the use of these technologies don't look at the overall good that can come out from their use, all they see is its ugly. We all consume power, just because it doesn't look good doesn't mean we can sweep the problems under a rug and continue to hurt ourselves and the environment. I've been called idealistic for thinking this way, but I just want us all to work towards a renewable energy for everyone's future, and we can't do that without all of us working together.
Comment
29 of 30
March 29, 2009
There is other new ways of storing energy using solid weights:

http://www.globalenergy-ksa.com/video.html
Comment
30 of 30
May 29, 2011
Look at http://peakenergy.blogspot.com/2011/05/final-tests-for-torresols-csp-plant.html. We now can get 15 hours of storage.
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