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Geothermal Electricity Booming in Germany

By Jane Burgermeister
June 2, 2008   |   20 Comments

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"Geothermal sources could supply Germany's electricity needs 600 times over."

-- Werner Bussmann, CEO, German Geothermal Association
20 Reader Comments
Comment
1 of 20
June 2, 2008
This is interesting on a number of accounts.

The boom in geothermal power in a country with minimal resources is the result of a hefty allowance for revenues from the source. "More plants — some as big as 8-10 MW" sounds almost quaint to those of used to thinking of such plants as near a minimum.

In the U.S... well best not get into that.

["Geothermal sources could supply Germany's electricity needs 600 times over."

-- Werner Bussmann, CEO, German Geothermal Association]

I see no indication that Herr Bussman is talking about EGS rather than conventional geothermal resources. Seems an extraordinary figure if so.

With EGS the numbers would be much greater.

Best, Terry
Comment
2 of 20
June 2, 2008
Generally speaking, raw heat is best used for heating and cooling. Solar Water heaters, space heating and chillers for coolers tend to be a good use of hot water. I wonder if they compared the savings from electricity to the savings from piping the geo-hot water to a mall/office building.

Isn't there such a complex in Toronto Canada that makes significant use of the Great Lakes for cooling by way of an extended pipeline?

As a technological idea, it is interesting. Tapping the core of the earth for power is tempting. It is our largest local nuclear reactor.
Comment
3 of 20
June 2, 2008
Just watch out for earthquakes.
Comment
4 of 20
June 3, 2008
With 3D seismology technology borrowed from mining and gas companies, creating the best "incisions" should be rather straight forward now. Oil rigs drill down in distances of miles now, not meters.

Geothermal energy statistics can be very objective before drilling with margins of error that are acceptable; especially since the machinery to capture the hot water/steam lasts 30 years and is essentially sustainable with minimal inherent pollution.

The transport of produced electricity from these "factories" is the bigger challenge,...is it not?

All the Best
Comment
5 of 20
June 4, 2008
Hi Jane,

But, don't tell my message to the DoE or the current US-President; they do not listen and suffer perhaps the NIH-syndrome or sleep with their coal and nuclear friends.

Trust me, CLEAN US ENERGY leadership is on the move ! I sincerely hope this, because the US has the most open-minded population on the planet as shown in many examples – who landed several decades ago on the moon with 12 astronauts, who is now moving forward to Mars ?!

Look even APS in Phoenix will charge their customers 14 cents/kWh over the next 30 years, than doing nothing.

However, with these high energy prices the customers are the victims with such high energy costs and the result is, more poor and hungry must suffer or die and the middle-class will cry.

Misleading, misinformation and distraction seem in history the remedies to prevail. Also with dirty fossil and dangerous nuclear energy in the US is no difference.
See today the NPP accident in Slowenia. Not worth to mention in the US ?

Best regards,

Dr. Gene Schroeder
06-04-2008
Comment
6 of 20
June 4, 2008
Hi Jane,

it is astounding and shocking, how many ignorant people explain their opinions about renewable energies and show their failed education.
Look f.e. Mr. Bussmann, this person is not capable to ask professional questions nor has he any education to speak out in this matter. The documents I was reading about this guy are eye-openers and extremely disgusting.
He and today most others look only for subsidies and financial support from members of his own VEREIN or the government.

Well, if you look serious into the potential of GEOTHERMAL ENERGY with the conventional deep-drilling technology, the first need is, to study the restrictions and limits and you will learn not the EGS nor Kalina have a great future.
Of course, I like such approaches, because they point into the right direction ! I love also solar, wind and bio solutions. But, remember none of these is cheap, sustainable and without environmental concern or close to the big consumers – cities, metropolitan areas, industries etc.
The penetration and exploration into deeper regions is only obtainable with new SVTs ( SIREX Vertical Tunnels developed during the last 35 years in Germany and the US ) and the private geothermic "SIREX energy approach" to supply sustainable base load electricity from deeper regions of the lithosphere ( with up to 500 °C ). With new SVTs you can penetrate deeper and the production rate has 1,000 times increased.
See at http://turbojack.blogspot.com and in the websites TURBOJACK.COM and GESO.BIZ.

The standards GPPs of SIREX deliver 2,000 [ MW ] and the eco-electricity costs are only 3,o cents/kWh.
Their new first Mega-GPP beside four other standard GPP versions just planned in Indonesia and financed by the Royal Family offers 8,o [ GW ] for just 2,o [ ¢/kWh ].

Believe it or not, this is the only green energy future.

Next page . . .
Comment
7 of 20
Hello,

May be Geothermal in Germany is good for house heating. But for electricity it seems to me an incredible waste of money.

Why do not produce the electricity in neighbour countries? (you have high temperature almost at ground level) and then transport it to Germany. You can save huge amount of money even counting the transport looses and transport costs.

Thanks a lot if any expert can clarify this point.

Another question. What is the cost (Meuros/MW) for a plant in a hot area?
Comment
8 of 20
June 4, 2008
Thanks Ron, that is what I would guess as well. This is why I asked if this is really the best use of capital. If the same investment was put towards wind, the return would be greater and pollution avoided greater.
Comment
9 of 20
June 4, 2008
Depending on the technology, geothermal can be associated with heavy metals and other toxins in the waste stream. Since Germany has fairly tough environmental standards, I'd be interested in the restrictions on plant design and technologies that are in place there.

For me, alternative energy journalism that doesn't address pollution issues and other externalities is of little use.
Comment
10 of 20
June 4, 2008
Paul Johnson asks "I thought geothermal was supposed to be competitive? Why does it need a $0.23/kwh subsidy?"

The article implies that the $0.23/kwh is what the generating plant would receive. That seems high, but the depth needed is probably much greater than in the Western USA where geothermal is cost effective.

I am surprised that there is water at those depths. Perhaps water would be the heat exchange mechanism.
Comment
11 of 20
June 4, 2008
I thought geothermal was supposed to be competitive? Why does it need a $0.23/kwh subsidy?

I'm paying $0.148/kwh right now for 100% wind. I'm not sure what the subsidy is but I would guess that it is nowhere near the $0.082 difference between what I pay and the subsidy alone.

It looks like a 80MW wind farm costs the same as a 8MW geothermal plant. I know what I would rather have even if geo can be more of a baseload supply.
Comment
12 of 20
June 4, 2008
Actually Geothermal Development reduces earthquake activity, because it releases pressure from building up, which causes shifts along plates.
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/china-geothermal-energy-earthquake-deterrent-project-news-opinion
Comment
13 of 20
Does anyone know where can you do a Master Degree on Geothermal Energy in Germany?
Comment
14 of 20
June 4, 2008
If Germany can really produce 600 times its potential capacity in the future, then one can only imagine what can be done with the excess, like making Hydrogen for instance: The possibilities are endless.
Comment
15 of 20
Geothermal Energy Resources of India

( IBC Conference "Geothermal Power Asia 2000" Manila, Philippines, Feb.2000)

D. Chandrasekharam
Professor and Head Department of Earth Sciences
Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay, India

Abstract

Indian geothermal
Comment
16 of 20
June 4, 2008
Has anyone studied the Geothermal potential in India?
If so, can I have some data?
Comment
17 of 20
June 5, 2008
Solar tower is one of the alternative technologies proposed as a device to economically generate electricity from solar energy or/and low temperature geothermal energy in large-scale. A well-balanced mix of renewable energy sources with fossil fuel backup can provide affordable power capacity on demand. The geographical location, climate, and local conditions are the most important factors that determine the possibilities of applying solar energy and other renewable and methods of energy conversion. From this standpoint the author proposes a new approach to prospective Solar Tower Power Plant (STPP). This approach includes the combining of the following grid connected technologies: Hybrid Geothermal / Solar Chimney Power Plant and Hybrid Geothermal / PV / Solar Chimney Power Plant
The novel proposed schemes offer a number of potential advantages and represents an innovative way to reduce cost, optimizing the consumption of fossil fuel, and minimizing the environmental impact [1]. They are based on thermal conversion, which allows hybrid operation with both solar heat and low temperature geothermal to continue generating electricity even when sunlight is not available. Attractive alternative is to use geothermal energy for electricity generation, because it is available around the clock and can be regulated according to the demand. Geothermal power generation could thus provide a major contribution to the basic supply of solar electricity. This is a major advantage since it enables operation according to the actual demand for electricity, without limitation to sunlight hours only and considerably improves STPP ability to compete with conventional power plants.
[1] Hussain Alrobaei, 2007, Hybrid Geothermal/Solar Energy Technology For Power Generation/ environmental-expert.com/resultarticlept.asp.
Comment
18 of 20
June 6, 2008
engineered geothermal (deep earth crust) is still in the developmental stage. German government incentives are meant to assist in achieving economies of scale. In general, renewables are where computers were in the 1990s. Our technologies are evolving rapidly and our costs are trending down. Shallow geothermal via ground source heat pumps is already the cheapest form of heating, cooling and hot water production for both residential and commercial buildings. Both these technologies should be doable in most of India.
Comment
19 of 20
September 4, 2009
I had a recent opportunity to view the Munchen (Riem) geothermal plant which provides 10MW or so of hot water (at 85 to 90 C degrees) for district heating. From the comments already made here and the original article, there seems to be confusion about objectives and realities.

- this heat comes as hot water from a limestone layer at 3000 metres and is very suitable for the intended purpose.

- it does NOT involve ANY possibility of surface pollution from whatever may be in the extracted water. It is all re-injected into a second bore terminating about 2Km downstream from the extract point.

- there's often no direct comparison with electricity from wind and ot water from geothermal: unless there's a problem with the reservoir (see below), geothermal will work 'indefinitely'. Wind energy systems will work when the wind blows - and ONLY then. This is obviously not a good idea unless you also provide 100% backup.

- this PARTICULAR system is NOT comparable with heat-pumped systems. The source temperature is sufficient to drive the heating applications through heat-exchangers.

The main potential problem is always going to be the underground heat reservoir. At Munich they report no problems at present but clearly conditions can change, so that the extract temperature could fall, maybe a lot. The Stadtwerke Munchen guy who presented the system clearly stated that this IS a high-risk enterprise! By sheer coincidence, later on the same trip I came across a second geothermal site at Kaufbeuren,some distance away and being developed by a different organisation (Allgau Geothermal?). This has only reached the stage of drilling the boreholes but I believe will be abandoned because although the bore has reached 4000+ metres, there's insufficient water.

Anyone know any more detail of these systems??
Comment
20 of 20
October 19, 2010
It's great to see other countries using greener sources of energy, I'm trying my best to do that in my own home. I actually just had a couple of New Jersey plumbers install a geothermal heating system in my house last year. I couldn't be happier with the results, I'm saving a fortune on my bills.
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