Mass Market for Green Homes Coming?

structural insulated panels  are a great product. The problem is getting a premium over traditional stick and stucco buildings at  sell. People don't recognize the advantages in the  reduction in utilities  and are not going to pay the extra $$$ for it.  So much of housing turns over every 3 to 5 years, that  there is little incentive to pay the extra money for structural insulated panels.

I have always wondered if solar people are able to completely recoup the costs of their solar investment at the time of sell or is it deeply discounted as was done with the older home solar features from the 80's.  Until recently there have been so few Solar PV systems on homes, I doubt there is any real research on the topic.

 In today's Sacramento Bee there is a story about a UC Davis professor who installed 27 pv panels on her 3000 sq ft home for $40,000 (http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/409919.html)  She is very happy to have reduced her summer time electric bill from about $450 mo.  to about $50.  As rates go up I would think this would certainly add to the value of the home on resale.  My solar experience has been different so for:  I got a bid for $15,000 for six modules (1.5 kW).   After utility rebates and tax credit, the net cost would be $11,500. I might have gone for this except the only place on my house where the panels could be placed required cutting down a shade tree, which, in the future would be worth some savings with its afternoon shading.  Also, I like trees.  So I have gone in for other less expensive (but still usually expensive) efficiency investments:  tankless water heater, insulating shades, a window awning, solar powered attic fan, whole house fan, ceiling fans, CF lights throughout, and tuning up my HVAC system.  Only the latter four were clearly cost effective for the energy savings.  That, plus trailing behind my wife turning off lights, has got my summertime electric bill down to $100 month from a peak of $300.  Next investment: either replace my 10-year-old HVAC with a more efficient new model, or fireplace insert.  Probably will go for the latter.  For the HVAC upgrade I'll pay perhaps $12,000, and for the insert maybe $4000.  What do you think?

Jim,

You bring up great points.  Has there been any research on the value gained from selling a home with PV? If so, how much did the home appreciate due to the PV system?  

In the 80's people did not recognize the advantages in reduced utility bills due to solar electrcity.  In contrast, however, the public awareness is increasing dramatically.  Every day solar and renewable energy are in the papers and on the news.  Wall Street has plenty of coverage as well.  When financial institutions (i.e. Wells Fargo) release statements and literature claiming PV as one of the best home additions for increased value, people tend to listen. 

Home buyers and owners are starting to realize that saving $150/month, or $1800 annually, is a lot of money.   That is 450 Starbucks @ $4 a cup, or your monthly cell phone, internet, TV, etc.  Now, look at many homes where people are saving $300+/month...that could be a 50K chunk of mortgage.  There is definite resale value in having a PV system, which is why Wells Fargo urges a 1-to-20 ratio of ($1 saved in utility bill) = ($20 increase in property value).  It is, afterall, open to market trends.  But, even if the value increases only half of stated ratio it can still be greater cost/value than installing a pool, spa, new kitchen cabinets...etc. 

John,

I love your description of concrete homes. It's classic. Everything I have read concurrs with your positive assetment.  I wish it was popular im my area.   

John,

please send me more info about your concrete wall systems.

By the way, our Solar & Radiant Heating Systems are below the common heating systems.

struss@nobis-solar.com

 

Jim,

Here in Texas we are building insulated sandwich wall concrete homes at, or below the cost of conventional stick frame homes.  Coupled with radiant floor heating, solar hot water, efficient light fixtures, and fresh-air heat exchangers, and sensible design, we can build a house at virtually dead even costs with conventional housing.  I know this because I do it everyday.  Our walls are R-22 equivalent, bullet proof, stronger than any SIPS panel, and you can hang your motorcycle on the wall for decoration, if the feeling moves you. They don't mold, or rot.  A strong wind will not blow them over.  Bugs don't like concrete, termites face no temptation, they are 100 percent recycleable, and they're pretty!  Green building is already here, and it's not cost prohibitive.

Adding PV does drive up the costs.  However, if you're over a mile and a half off the grid, PV is cheaper.  Some places in west Texas are WAY off the grid.

It doesn't pay to generalize about PV or solar hot water. 

Mostly...it depends...

My concern is that no figures were provided for the cost of these homes, except to say they "cost less to build." I suspect that is on the basis of the smaller footprint.  Seven hundred and fifty square feet is actually about half what is needed for a comfortable home - I raised my family in one. Another problem is that manufactured homes do not appreciate over time as a conventional home does, Prices go down and insurance rates go up.

There are lots of ways to cut utility bills without spending $40,000 on solar panels - the best ones being to not use compressive air conditioning, to use flourescent light bulbs, and to buy energy efficient appliances.

Only if electricity costs become a greater part of the housing costs would energy efficiency be a real value priced into the resale of the home.

 

This is obviously the future for we "humans".  Build a reasonable footprint sized home by mandate; or social pressure and let the energy savings fuel even more development.

We're moving towards critical mass,..I say moving (not there yet), with LEEDS cert., popular elections coming up, etc. and popular marketing such as this site with SIPS/ICF's, solar hot water/PV in general.  One should be able to build now in any part of the country and have very a little "carbon footprint" and one not be concerned if they are not in Florida or California. 

An all American electric vehicle will be out starting in 2008 with Chevy leading the way with the Chevy Volt- hopefully!  Wow we're gonna lead with something-awesome!

With an efficient SIP shell and solar hot water combined with a 2kW PV on one's home one could pay 1/4 the current energy bill of an inefficient unmodern design or 1/2 the cost (obviously approx.) of todays modern "energy efficient homes" aka "Energy Star Homes".  Energy Star is great, but still uses old building techniques that don't take into consideration new shells or the physics of SIPS and ICF.

Imagine having a SIP/ICF home with a small 1.5-2kW PV that saves energy and also stores energy at night for the batteries of the Chevy Volt; worth thinking about.

All the Best,

FB

Years ago, my folks put an insert in their fireplace, with fans to distribute the waste heat that normally went up the flue, and it made a huge difference.

The way I see it, the money is there when you have and ain't when you don't. If you have it to spend now, then I feel it is good to have your bills covered for when you get old or in trouble for some reason. It's like having the bills paied in advance if you can afford to do it now instead of spending it on something youreally won't need in the future.

We had our vacation home quoted two ways -- SIPs and stick built. We had been told by a nearby SIP manufacturer and SIP builder that SIPs add a small amount to the cost of framing, but make it up in labor savings, the net cost being only marginally higher.

We found out that the SIP framing cost was double the conventional framing cost. That meant giving up other features we wanted -- features that made the home more energy-efficient -- which drove the SIP building and ownership cost out of consideration, no matter what the energy savings.

I was disappointed, because I had fallen in love with the SIP idea, but couldn't embrace the SIP reality.

Going stick built opened up a field of more affordable builders -- only the high-end guys would talk to us about SIPs.

John, I'm interested in your building skills as well. Please contatc me at hannak028@aol.com , thanks.

Its nice to see a century old idea come of age. Thomas Edison had the idea of concrete prefabs in 1908 and many are still standing and inhabited in New Jersey. Like solar, it takes a while to catch on.

For Mr. John Carr in Texas: please repost info about the concrete building you mentioned, or, if anyone else has info, please post it or email to me: 1@CommonSenseAmerica.info

THANK YOU!

(cont.)
RE professionals must learn about the added value from their own experience. Then they must have the intelligence and will to educate themselves enough to "sell" the value to buyers.
The odds of those things coming together are remote - only a small percentage will get to that point.
So, the only thing that will start driving values up will be consumer panic. When utility rates go high enough to start hammering family budgets, interest will soar.

Solar-powered resale homes are rare since most homeowners willing to make the investment don't plan on moving. Those knowing they will move avoid the investment since agents tell them to forget about energy measures and concentrate on updated kitchens.

The majority of solar-powered homes for sale are currently from new construction. Builders tweak their production for the best returns and also do a poor job of selling the value of these systems. They do a great job of selling things like granite counters and extra closets.

A 1998-99 study from the Appraisal Institute indicated that for every $1 saved in annual utility costs from efficiency measures on single-family homes, $20.73 was added to the value of the property at time of sale.

That is a really old study relative to what has happened in 8-9 years. Solar systems and other items are much more efficient, utility costs are rapidly increasing, and public awareness of energy and pollution is much higher.
I sold a solar-powered home in '06 in San Jose. It sold at multiple offers over the asking price and all the sales agents said that as soon as they told clients the home was solar-powered, they made it the first priority to see.
But here is where it breaks down: the real estate industry is absolutely clueless. They don't even do a good job of extolling the values of energy efficient windows or heating systems. Ask any RE agent what value is added by a solar-electric system and almost always the answer is: none.
It is a self-fulfilling statement...

To answer the question of pay back when going to PV cells. There are several new PV methods that have hit the market over the last 2 month. The secret to succesful recouping investment is read and find out what else has become focust in the industry. I have contacted a British company that is using nano cloth with embeded circuits. It produces electricity in ambiant light during the light period and inferred during the night. I have added this cloth across the roof on my home and will experiance a pay back in 18 months. I also joined the grid for income when I am not consuming the energy.

We recently built an SIP home as a spec. Here is the link:http://homes.realtor.com/realestate/loyalton-ca-96118-1092114382/
As a contractor, my husband feels now that a stick home is completely "stupid" to build at this point in time. The SIP home went up quickly, is easy to use, and in our part of CA, the package deal was almost equivalent to a stick frame package. Not only is it very energy efficient, it is also so quiet inside, very similar to a straw bale home. Plus, no dust, and no bugs through any cracks. Our problem with selling the home is of course the housing market right now, and also an uneducated public on this kind of home. The energy bills are low, and we did not skimp on any other amenities inside.

Prefab and manufactured homes are the springboard for affordable green building!
On January 12, 2008, the first Energy Star Eco Manufactured Model Home will be premiered in Auburn! This informational event is from 11am-2:00pm and will also feature an art exhibit by local 5th graders with a "Save the Planet" theme. This new ECO home will be the springboard for affordable & healthy green built homes avail to ALL Calif! Eco builders and suppliers will be on hand to answer green design and green building questions.

For more information, contact: American Home Sales 530-885-4555

I would like to get more info from John Car about efficient prefab concrete wall structures.  I would appreciate hearing from others who are developing/using similar building systems.

 

Thanks - mikpo@mindspring.com 

 Mr. Carr,

   Have you been peeking inside my head?  With the exception of R-value, you could be describing what's floating around in my head and marginally been placed on "paper".  Please contact me so that I may get more information ... thanks!

 

Squalo61@gmail.com