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Grid-Connected Cars and Renewables: Understanding the Potential

By Steven Letendre, Prometheus Institute
July 9, 2006   |   17 Comments

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"As the vehicle fleet moves toward at least partial electric drive and grid charging, this creates the opportunity for renewables -- beyond biofuels -- to serve as a source of energy for the transport sector."

- Steven Letendre, The Prometheus Institute for Sustainable Development
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17 Reader Comments
Comment
1 of 17
July 10, 2006
Dr Manwell and his staff at UMASS have provided wind power systems data which states that wind velocities increase in the afternoon and subside at night. Where does the wind blow at night? Remember air conditioning loads can be highest from 4pm till 6pm due to storage of heat during the day and release in the late afternoon. Make sure alternatives will match this load. Can UMASS Boston, a commuter school get this
type of system installed has a pilot project?
The wind resources are good but the FAA has to allow the towers to be installed within the 3 mile zone of no tower installations. There also is plenty of room for a PV systems to be installed over the parking lots ( a Canopy ).
Comment
2 of 17
July 11, 2006
I am not sure if grid stability could or should rely upon PHEV batteries. People would not want any demands placed upon their personal property to serve a grid system when there must be other ways to steady grid load.

I think we need multiple renewable sources of all types entering the grid in gradient level. This would mean that the electricty would be in batches set for short time intervals so that fluctions over time could be accomodated by other input. I envision this type of control system to be computerized.

Secondly, there should be some storage but not necessarily from PHEV batteries. It might be from hydrogen generated during the day to fuel cells when needed or it could be even hydropower storage. In fact, since flowing water converts to higher energy than water from dams, flowing water hydropower could be reclassified as intermittant where the water sources are small.

adrianakau@aol.com
Comment
3 of 17
July 12, 2006
In Arizona, we average 5.8 hours of sunshine per day.
Our shade structures built on corporate parking lots serve
two purposes: provide shelter for workers' autos, generate
DC power and will fill the "electric tank" of a PHEV while
the worker is inside at the plant or office. Get those "plug
ins" on the road so they can be plugged into the grid or
our solar enabled shade structures. We are ready!

Solarscape Energy LLC.
by Jonas Weil, President
Comment
4 of 17
July 12, 2006
Ken; you might want to look at some of the projects already being done with wave energy. Just go to :

http://members.aol.com/mamoenergy/e_08.htm

adrianakau@aol.com
Comment
5 of 17
July 12, 2006
HoooraH,
Were on the track for electric cars, so why not supply the main grid with cheap and never ending supply of electricity from an old source in a new way that I am about to expose to the world? Don't laugh yet, because as soon as we can get the government to allocate some ocean area for recovering energy from water waves, I may have solved how to supply most of the electricity! Using twenty, 20 foot height waves, (perhaps 3 to 5 acres of water), I can produce from 120 to over 6oo MW. of electricity. (I class myself as an inventor, and am just doing my working model
and drawings. No I am not kidding on the power either. Any comments? Ken Weldon
Kenweldon@msn.com
Comment
6 of 17
July 12, 2006
A couple of questions about all this: not being an engineer, I can not make realistic suggestions. I can, though, point to some ideas and ask if they would be useful.

1. If plugging in after work would overload the grid (17-19:00), how about an intermediate power source such as another battery in the garage that would take in power from the grid at 01:00 during the off-peak hours and store it until the owner plugs the car in? Are batteries at least efficient enough to make that intermediate link feasible?

2. Is AC the most efficient way to run a grid? What if our power, generated from wind or solar, were to remain DC, avoiding the inverters, and the internal converters on most of our appliances (and batteries). I have read about a renewed look at DC taking place somewhere. Does anyone know about it?
Comment
7 of 17
July 12, 2006
Based upon breakthrough discoveries, Magnetic Power Modules(TM) are being designed that operate continuously, without fuel, extracting electricity by converting abundant, renewable, Virtual Photon Flux (VPF), an energy source that exists everywhere in the universe.

Prius plug-in hybrids typically need a 1 kW recharge connection. Magnetic Power Inc. is developing solid-state Magnetic Power Modules that can be combined to yield 1 kW or more. This would provide all the advantages without any need to plug-in to the utility grid, the first step toward driving automobiles, trucks and busses, without any need for gas or oil.

Based on current progress in our laboratories, patent-pending pre-production prototypes suitable for a car could be completed during 2007. This could become the first example of the use of this so far unknown, potential source of electricity in an automotive power system. Perhaps 20-50 miles of driving would be fuel-free, with no need to plug-in.
Comment
8 of 17
July 12, 2006
The problem with plug-in vehicles is the fact that people will want to recharge them when the distribution network is highly stressed - in the early evening upon returning home from work. New utility infrastructure such as transformers and larger conductors will be required to meet this new, peak-sharpening load. The cost will be huge and fully attributable only to this use. Who will pay?

"We can recharge them off-peak, in the middle of the night," some will say. You could, but residential load-shifting programs are, in general unsuccessful. Regulators loathe setting differentials high enough to make on-peak use painful. The utilities could control recharging in much the same way that some load control air conditioning. That compromises the usefulness of the vehicle and adds control infrastructure costs of its own.

Until the greater issues of integration with the existing utility infrastructure are dealt with, plug-in vehicles will never see much market penetration.
Comment
9 of 17
July 12, 2006
Music to my ears. I am developing a small cogen power plant and the prospect of selling electricty to cars and trucks is not an Orwellian dream, it will happen. I could see my Purchase Power Agreements extending to fleeets of taxies etc.. If batteri life is the hurdle then we know what has to be done. More R&D. Let's make it happen.
Comment
10 of 17
July 12, 2006
It all boils down to batteries and after trying for
30 years, we still don't have a low cost, high capacity, lightweight, easily rechargeable, long
lasting battery. Period. The statement that this
problem can be overcome will be believed when it is seen. I don't have ANY confidence that a magical battery solution iss just around the corner. They've been saying that for three decades now. They hornswoggled GM and the DOE into developing the EV1 back in the early 90's under the assumption that a practical battery was just around the corner. 15 years later we still haven't seen that corner, and I don't expect we will.
Comment
11 of 17
July 12, 2006
Over the past 50 years, most have adopted, for better or worse, a personal vehicle as a lifestyle necessity. We have traded technology for time and, I believe, we will continue to do so.

The PHEV must demonstrate that it has sufficient multiple recharge capacity so aftermarket value is sustained. A one or two thousand charge capacity may not do this unless the battery system is cost effective as a replaceable throw away after 7-8 years.

Right now, I would think that the PHEV has the potential to be a silver bullit, not withstanding the issue of the technological lifestyle it would sustain. A significant reduction in imported oil would not break my heart.
Comment
12 of 17
July 12, 2006
Plug-in hybrids come closest to a sustainable solution in the transportation sector. Distributing energy in the form of Hydrogen, even if it is only used for temporary electricity storage, cannot provide meaningful answers, because of the high parasitic energy consumption of a hydrogen economy. We cannot solve the energy supply problem by energy waste.

As most renewable energy is harvested as electricity, we need electricity storage at the end user like batteries in PHEVs. After all, these vehicles put up to 80% of the green power on the road, while hydrogen fuel cell vehicles have a "wind-to-wheel" efficiency of less than 25%. Compared to the efficient electricity distribution by wire, four times more renewable power plants are needed to feed a hydrogen economy. Three of these plants have to cover the losses of the hydrogen path. Who wants to invest in a hydrogen economy? More information can be found on www.efcf.com/reports.

ubossel@bluewin.ch
Comment
13 of 17
July 13, 2006
As GM said after their electric car disaster: we learnt that an infrastructure must first exist. Mainly what was needed was a practical battery. Until one comes along, talk of cars running off the grid is a pipe dream or a very limited benefit, considering the communting distances involved and the lack of an access to power supply for many commuters. There is also the problem of the massive increases in electrical output capacity that would be necessary. There are no off peak hours for most parts of the year, and batteries take a long time to recharge.
Comment
14 of 17
July 13, 2006
Mike,

You are right that a simple timer that prevents the vehicle from charging before a certain time will solve the peak power surge when residents return from work.

I am curious what a "reasonable" return on investment is for you?

In my biased opinion, several U.S. states provide PV subsidies that make the ROI very reasonable (Payback of 10 years or less). I am biased because I work for a solar company (REC Solar), but even with my work affiliation aside, PV makes sense financially and environmentally. That's why it's on my home...
Comment
15 of 17
July 13, 2006
Charging PHEVs off-peak on the grid can be done very simply with a timer-switch between the PHEV and the grid AC plug -- without even involving the utility -- unless you want be charged less per Kwh for off-peak energy. (A special timer could also be installed by the utility to limit charging to off-peak hours -- if the charging of PHEVs becomes a significant load during peak hours -- with a reduced cost per off-peak Kwh incentive.)

Most utilities see this as a win-win for their businesses and they have already investigated the grid's ability to charge electric vehicles.

I own/ drive a Prius and am considering "upgrading" it to a PHEV and adding solar power to my home to make the PHEV carbon neutral if the return on investment is "reasonable".
Comment
16 of 17
July 14, 2006
kerry: if you need to see it to believe it, then buy one of the DeWalt 36V power tools and take it apart. You will then have a battery of the necessary parameters sitting right in your very own hands.
Comment
17 of 17
July 18, 2006
Brian is correct. The A123 batteries that MIT developed in the DeWalt 36 volt rechargeable battery pack are amazing. For more specs see: http://www.a123systems.com/html/products/ANR26650M1specs.pdf

Since the PHEV's are intended to be recharged over night, a fast recharge time is not a limiting factor holding back PHEV's. If you run out of electric charge, the vehicle still runs like a regular gasoline/hybrid electric vehicle.
PHEV's are not a pipe dream. A pipe dream is thinking we are going to drill our way out of the peak oil pickle we are in.
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