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Academic Study Discredits Ethanol, Biodiesel

July 15, 2005   |   25 Comments

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"There is just no energy benefit to using plant biomass for liquid fuel,"

- David Pimentel, professor of ecology and agriculture at Cornell
25 Reader Comments
Comment
1 of 25
July 15, 2005
I'm a little concerned that he thinks he can look at ethanol from corn and biodiesel from soy and make sweeping statements like, "There is just no energy benefit to using plant biomass for liquid fuel ... These strategies are not sustainable." That's a pretty sweeping statement, considering he didn't evaluate rapeseed, jatropha, algae, or the new UWM study on cellulose. With a statement like that, I'm concerned that he's tilting his procedure to prove his assumption, or at least engaging in conscious publication bias.

As to the government study, remember that the DoE likes to justify its own existence (which is pretty shaky, considering their original charter was to oversee nucular 8) power), and the Ag Dept has always been a cheerleader and cartelization agent, so yes, their results are also questionable.
Comment
2 of 25
July 15, 2005
I'm no expert, not even close, but as far as biodiesel goes: Soybean crops produce 48 gals of oil per acre and rapeseed crops produce 127 gals per acre, according to a chart at journeytoforever.org ( http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html ) that's about 2 ½ times the amount of soybean oil. So by extension (this is off I'm sure but you get the idea) if it takes 1 gal of fossil fuel to produce .73 gal of biodiesel from soybean, then that same 1 gal of fossil fuel would produce 1.8 gal of biodiesel from rapeseed. That looks like a fuel gain of about 80%. I wonder what it would really look like if the ran the same study on rapeseed?
Comment
3 of 25
July 15, 2005
Hey Tripp....I think the DOE has been compromised either because of politics or because their studies did not take in the entire process of production of ethanol--from beginning to end.

I think that the DOE et. al. treated a lot information about the process as an externality (i.e., "energy used in producing the crop (including production of pesticides and fertilizer, running farm machinery and irrigating, grinding and transporting the crop) and in fermenting/distilling the ethanol from the water mix. Although additional costs are incurred, such as federal and state subsidies that are passed on to consumers and the costs associated with environmental pollution or degradation, these figures were not included in the analysis.")

And what this new study does is consider all the information from beginning to end.

Cheers,

Neal
Comment
4 of 25
July 15, 2005
There have been huge technology improvements in the ethanol industry in just the past 5 years. The heat recovery systems alone have increased efficiencies by at least 50 % in the past 3 years alone . I am sure that if the Professors were using current technology numbers instead of industry numbers of 20 to 30 years ago, the conclusions would be very different. I would be curious to see if their methods of calculating costs were peer reviewed by people actually in the industry with current real costs ??
Comment
5 of 25
July 15, 2005
OK, I don't get it. Somebody is lying or doing poor research or the scope of their research is not accurate. I've read several DOE white papers that are completely contradicted by this report. Since they both can't be correct, who's wrong?

-- Tripp
Comment
6 of 25
July 16, 2005
"Only Dr. Pimentel disagrees with this analysis. But his outdated work has been refuted by experts from entities as diverse as the USDA, DOE, Argonne National Laboratory, Michigan State University, and the Colorado School of Mines. While the opponents of ethanol will no doubt continue to peddle Pimentel's baseless charges, they are absolutely without credibility."

http://www.ethanolrfa.org/pr020801b.html

In addition to providing a 34% positive energy gain, ethanol production utilizes mainly domestically available energy, such as coal and natural gas. Therefore for every 1 Btu of liquid fuel used to produce ethanol, there is a 6.34 Btu output.

The study cites increased corn yields, lower energy use in the fertilizer industry, and advances in fuel conversion technologies that have enhanced the economic and technical feasibility of producing ethanol. The study is an update of a previous USDA study completed in 1995, which demonstrated a 24% net energy gain.
Comment
7 of 25
July 16, 2005
A Study by the German Environmental Ministery came to very similar conclusions. Unfortunately the press does not publicize facts that no one wants to hear, we all want to keep driving our cars do not we? The car industry for sure will do everything to support biofuels, evenm when from an energetic poitn if view using crop to burn to produce heat or to ferment for CHP would make a lot more sense. The problem is that these do not solve the dependency on fossile fuels for transportation. In the mid term everyone would be better off by letting the facts set policy, reduce use of fossils in heating and electricity (replace with renewables of whatever form), make cars more efficient, but keep them running on fossil fuels till a better solution is economically feasible. The combination of these 2 policies will help to stabilize CO2 emissions and buy us precious time to come up with a truly sustainable energy form.
Comment
8 of 25
July 16, 2005
Just to kick this off in another direction, why even bother with ethanol from crops, when an electric car seems much more promising?

If we're going to put huge subsidies--our tax dollars--toward something sustainable, why not into battery development or ongoing tax breaks so that the electric car can have a firm foothold.

The reasons for supporting ethanol in the past couple of years have largely been to get the US off of foreign oil. While celulose or microbial production of ethanlol might be more realistic and practical than crop-based production, neither would be as promising as an electric car that is charaged through renewables like solar or wind.

Cheers,

Neal
Comment
9 of 25
July 16, 2005
Tripp Bishop, July 15, 2005 said it ...

Somebody is lying or doing poor research or the scope of their research is not accurate.

Dave? What about that peer review process? Want to test your theories with somebody outside the Bush White house?
Comment
10 of 25
July 16, 2005
I cannot stop. Dave, production of biofuels do not contribute to "... air, water and soil pollution and global warming." The crops take CO2 out of the atmosphere and buring the biofuels merely puts it back. That means NET ZERO CO2 emissions! That means no increase in global warming due to excessive green house gas emissions.

There are no benzenes, nor sulfur, nor nitrogen coming from the buring of oxigenated hydrocarbons like ethanol or biodiesel. Those pollutants only come from fossil fuels like gasoline and petroleum diesel. That means no air pollution.
Comment
11 of 25
July 16, 2005
Now my premise above is entirely specious if farmers work for free, on land they do not own, and pay wildy cheap prices for the fuels they use. The producers also do not pay their employees, work in other people's buildings, with equipment that just appeared one day, and they violate one of the most imprtant laws of physics every day.
Worse of yet, are those silly Europeans, who are paying $4.00 and $5.00 a gallon for fuel used to produce crops like rapeseed for biodiesel.

What you need is a professor of ECONOMICS to make this analysis, Dave!
Comment
12 of 25
July 16, 2005
There are hundreds of operating Ethanol production plants in the US alone. Are we to believe that all of these business people are working with stupid investment bankers who see that they pay out more money in raw material and production costs than they make in revenues from product sales ?!

The price of E85 fuel is always at least 20 cents lower than both regular unleaded gasoline and diesel.

The physics law of Conservation of Energy also prevents these biofuel producers from making the excess energy output (above the energy inputs) from nothing and then allowing them to sell that.

David Pimentel, professor of ecology, needs only to look up into the sky, at that strange ball of fire, to see where the surplus energy comes from.
Comment
13 of 25
July 16, 2005
Producers of biofuels need to buy crops at prices those market prices, and pay to transport the raw materials to their plants. Those costs need to allow them to make profits. If the energy required to farm the crops exceeded the energy output from the produced biofuel, then these businesses could not afford the crops, nor would they pay to transport the raw materials, because you cannot buy what you cannot afford.

Then the energy inputs and associated costs of production for biofuels would also play into the economics and should also bear out that these costs (for energy inputs), plus the crop and transport costs are lower than the price of the produced fuel. With a subsidy of only 20 cents per gallon and a price of $1.89/gallon for Ethanol, I do not believe it would be possible to stay SUSTAINABLE let alone even enter into the business of Ethanol production. The capital costs involved in building the production plant are also large.
Comment
14 of 25
July 16, 2005
If the economics of industries like Ethanol production or Biodeisel production were NON-SUSTAINABLE then these types of businesses would already be out of business or will soon be out of business, even with government subsidies.

Energy inputs to farming; to grow crops, produce fertilizers, irrigate, and harvest them surely are included in the price of the crop at market, or else the farming of those crops would not be sustainable. The energy inputs required to farm crops destined for use as biofuels is also surely not the entire cost covered in the price at market either (seed costs, land costs, labor costs, etc.).
Comment
15 of 25
July 18, 2005
Neal,

Actually, most of those DOE reports do take the externalities into account when determining the energy balance. That's what precipitated my original post.

-- Tripp
Comment
16 of 25
July 18, 2005
Dave Pimentel's "study" is outdated, having been done in 1991. Modern fertilizer production and ethanol production have greatly improved the net energy value of producing ethanol to 1.34.

It should also be noted that a gallon of gasoline doesn't just blow up out of the ground in Saudi Arabia and into your gas tank for free. There is an approximate 20% net energy loss to produce a gallon of gasoline from raw petroleum and transport it into a vehicle in the USA.

On balance, local ethanol production using local energy resourses to produce a cleaner liqued fuel for use locally seems like a better way to go, for our local economy and for our global environment.
Comment
17 of 25
July 19, 2005
I think it would be interesting if these two professors applied the same rationale to the current petroleum fuels we use today. It would be interesting to see if gasoline and diesel fuel consumed more energy than they produce.
Comment
18 of 25
July 19, 2005
i am a farmer and i own a small portion .001 of a 50 milion gallon ethanol plant what the study does not take into account is modern practice farming is so much difrent then it was 10 years ago i use no pestisides and minimal chemicals, also the corn is going to b e produced with or without the ethanol market . Ethanol production does not take the feed value away from corn or sorgham it has a high protien by-product that we use so baxicly withouyt ethanol the energuy in corn is wasted . also think aobut the war? the middle east? ethanol is a good step towards a oiul free economy
Comment
19 of 25
July 20, 2005
As I remember, the way peer review works is that you examine his data or gather and analyze your own to rebut his conclusions. David Pimental has an excellent reputation in the ecological/environmental community and science works because many examine much until some weight of evidence is achieved. Renewable liquid energy is not inherently the right way to approach the transportation fuel problem, which is why we need more data collection, analysis and technological development.
Comment
20 of 25
July 20, 2005
I've read pieces by Pimental before. While I am not saying that the ethanol business is or is not energy positive, I will say that his papers tend to be very heavily biased against all forms of renewable energy, and tend to get simple factual information wrong. He once wrote that there is not enough area in the US for PV to provide all of our energy, and stated costs well above current installation prices.

I don't know who funds his research, but since most of what I've seen is anti RE of all flavors, I can only guess.

I'm a Cornell grad, and hate to see this guy trash our reputation, especially compared to all the real movers and shakers in the PV world who are also alums.
Comment
21 of 25
July 21, 2005
<i>Renewable liquid energy is not inherently the right way to approach the transportation fuel problem, which is why we need more data collection, analysis and technological development.</i>

Absolutely right. I think we should sit around and wait until science can save us instead of actually taking a proactive position and doing what we can now.

This attitude drives me batty. Of course it is not a permanent solution. But hey, ya know what? It is an immediate implementation that helps.

Pimentel's study is so full of problems that it can't be taken seriously. As has been mentioned here, Soy is far from the optimal crop to extract oil from.
Comment
22 of 25
July 25, 2005
Two points the researchers fail to consider:
The livestock nutitional feed value of Distillers Grain (Wet and Dry) is better than raw corn. That should be factored into the energy balance.
The "other costs" of ethanol in subsidies and tax incentives all goes to major ethanol blenders such as gasoline refiners and to fuel users as a reduced fuel cost. It does not go to major ethanol producers or to farmers.
Comment
23 of 25
July 26, 2005
Can Pimental do a study of the energy it took to produce crude oil? Mother nature can be very ineffecient. A million years is a long time.

I as a farmer, I can produce biodiesel and ethanol within one year using solar energy, dirt, water, fertilizer and the financial management skills I acquired while attending Cornell University.

What's the price of a military tank or jet fighter without fuel? What's the value of your car when fuel prices escalate due to oligopolistic market forces from a crude oil industry with no competition from farmers?
Comment
24 of 25
May 17, 2006
Extract from in interview with Pimentel:

One major flaw of Pimentels assertions, is that his studies assign all energy costs to components of the production cycle and do not discount those numbers for other materials produced in the process.

in his soybean biodiesel chart, he stated that it takes 5,556 kg of soybeans to make 1,000 kg of oil. He assigns all of the energy cost of 7,800,000 keal for growing the soybeans to the soy oil. For an energy cost of $1,117.42 this is 92% of the final energy costs of $1,212.16.

Yet, 82% of those soybeans are reduced to soy meal, which he writes off as "soy byproduct waste. Yet in his text he allows that one can credit 2.2 million keal to the meal produced which will result in an energy loss for the final product of 8%. However, his posted table of inputs for soy do not include energy credit for the meal.
Comment
25 of 25
July 15, 2006
corn, wood and switchgrass are poor choices as ethanol "starters". How about getting creative with such species as marah oregonsis (manroot), or jeruselum artichoke.

Other good choices must surly exist. Why do we only focus on edible plants as ethanol bases? We aren't eating the fuel.
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