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Million Solar Roofs Victory in California Senate

By Jesse Broehl, Editor, RenewableEnergyAccess.com
June 2, 2005   |   35 Comments

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"I'm very encouraged by this as it will send the bill to the Assembly with a lot more momentum."

- David Hochschild, Director of Programs for the California-based Vote Solar Initiative
35 Reader Comments
Comment
1 of 35
June 3, 2005
Brian --

While the bill is wonderful, it won't actually significantly help you in South Africa. The 300MW/year that California hopes to install is a drop in the bucket compared to the 3000MW/year that will be installed in Japan and Europe. Japan and Europe are increasing the scale of production, and we in California, and our politicians, are just along for the ride.
Also, be aware that California is not subsidizing solar. We are paying a small amount so that we can save a larger amount of money from lower electric rates during peak summer days.
Comment
2 of 35
June 3, 2005
lolo,

Solar thermal uses the sun directly to heat water, much like a water hose left in the sun. Solar PV (PV = photovoltaic) uses semiconductor materials to produce electricity, not heat.

Hope that helps,

Frank
Comment
3 of 35
June 3, 2005
I think what Brian means is that solar thermal was not an option for the politicians.
Comment
4 of 35
June 3, 2005
Great news! Funny to see that this program was originally (I believe) pushed by the Clinton administration...
Comment
5 of 35
June 3, 2005
Brian, why would you specifically excluded thermal from a solar PV system? Doesn't thermal also use solar PV to generate heat? Why are the owners distinguishing one from the other anyway? Install both and call it done.
Comment
6 of 35
June 3, 2005
Very encouraging!!
I believe that by subsidising the industry to such a great extent will benefit the solar industry by increasing scale of production and take the technology to the next level through new production techniques. Eventually I believe it could be completely self sufficient.
It's a pitty thermal wasn't an option as well as the cost/benefit ratio is excellent. If this technology was also subsidised it would make it almost "free" as it is already quite cheap compared to photovoltaic.
Comment
7 of 35
June 5, 2005
a brief bit of info on solar thermal. the sun heats the water passing thru the solar collectors which are made of copper painted black. The heated water goes into a heat exchanger which then loops the house water into a large holding tank(80 gal) heating the tank to 125 degrees and then shutting down. when you use the hot water from your natural gas, electric, or propane water heater, the water is already hot, therefore your going to save about 45% on your home energy use in heating water. carbon dioxide is greatly reduced and the cost of the system is much less than pv systems and has a quicker payback time. because of the poor quality systems put in the seventies and eighties many people had poor results and didnot experience a positive. this oversight by the government is a serious mistake as more people can afford a $3500 investment, versus a $25,000 investment. The longevity of solar thermals new systems is 20 to 30 years.
Comment
8 of 35
June 6, 2005
What is your answer oilman? ^^
Comment
9 of 35
June 6, 2005
Does anyone know what incentives this will have compared to the current incentives ($2.80 rebate for private homeowners going down to $2.60 on July 1, 2005)?
Comment
10 of 35
June 7, 2005
And Roy... you need to get your stuff straight too... The worldwide installed capacity of PV is barely over 3000 MW. Japan and Europe are not installing no 3000 MW/year... So... I think another 3000 MW in California is a great thing. California is definately not "just along for the ride". This bill is a good idea... Cheers...
Comment
11 of 35
June 7, 2005
If solar power is going to get anywhere it needs to stop exaggerating. There's nothing wrong with optimistic sugar coating here and there but snake oil promises are counterproductive. All this talk about the promises of the 70s and 80s if funny considering hardcore solar advocates are still doing the same thing. Stop cheating...

Aside from these complaints, I think SB1 is great. It's much better than the last mandatory bill. And yeah, it t'would be nice if solar thermal was thrown in considering NG prices have tripled in the last 5 years but maybe another bill will address this issue. You can only play with a freemarket economy so much though... Greed needs its profit margins eh?
Comment
12 of 35
June 7, 2005
I'm all for solar but could we get a word processor in the house and maybe a fact checker for the article. Come on... You guys have to have connections at CalISO and with power plants and such... A novice can do better...

http://www.energy.ca.gov/maps/05-02_ONLN_APRVD_CUR_EXP_P.PDF

The average peaker power plant is not 50MW. Double or triple your number is more like it.
Comment
13 of 35
June 7, 2005
Great! Great work. Is it going to pass the Assembly?
Comment
14 of 35
June 7, 2005
you people are confused
Comment
15 of 35
June 8, 2005
I called the offices of Senator(s) Murray and Alquist on this Bill (SB1) last week in support of it. I also called the office of Assemblywoman Lieber as well. I was fortunate enough to meet Assemblywoman Pravin at the UN Environmental Conference in the Metreon in San Francisco. She was one of the panelist. I'd like to know which Assembly members are sitting on the fence right now, so I can call their offices too.

Galen Swain
eCouncil
Comment
16 of 35
June 8, 2005
The California Solar Energy Industries Association Board voted unanimously that solar thermal be included in SB 1. Consider:
1) The solar thermal industry has a tiny fraction of the resources, including lobbying and financial, that the PV industry is able to bring to bear.
2) The solar advocacy community (those who lobby for solar but aren't in the solar business) have expressed little interest or support for solar thermal.
3) Many in the solar thermal industry are also involved in the PV industry, and have no desire to become an obstacle to the passage of this legislation. However, the patience of those involved in the solar business for the last 15, 20, or 30 years is wearing very thin.

This should be Solar with a big "S;" solar thermal should be a part of the program.
Don't expect the solar thermal industry to tiptoe around the issue for the rest of the summer. Everyone supports PV. Everyone should support solar thermal as well.
Comment
17 of 35
June 8, 2005
Does this bill require the homes with solar to be more energy efficient?

Doesn't make much sense to have solar installations on sites that aren't already as efficient as possible (Energy Star appliances, programmable thermostats, CFLs, etc.)
Comment
18 of 35
June 8, 2005
Congratulations California on your commitment to solar energy as in power, sad to say you missed the real cost effective sollution to reduce gas use by not integrating solar thermal as part of your countries overall energy cut backs.
Here in the UK, the solar thermal industry has killed off the governments 50% grant handed out to those haveing the money in the first place to invest in PV.
Solar thermal collectors as we now also export into the USA (4 containers last month) will become our push into CA as well as up in the far north east to show how vacuum tube collectors can heat homes as well as supply just hot water domestic and commerical.
Solar thermal is grant free as its now to cheap to meter, may be the reason why solar thermal is not allowed to grow as the utility gets nothing from it.
Comment
19 of 35
June 8, 2005
And I heard today that if its a hot summer in Southern Ca. That they will not have enough electricity to meet the demand.
They will have to get power from North Ca..Or have Brownouts and Blackouts.
I suppose that this is not only for this summer but for future summers also..
Retarded lawmakers Have fun in Cali.
Comment
20 of 35
June 8, 2005
Lawmakers are retards..
When more solar electric is needed they vote for just some...Not mandatory that new homes will be built with solar electric just optional...
Lawmakers are retards.
Hot water heating is using electricity...There are electric water heaters and Natural Gas water heaters..Last time I checked Natural Gas was being used to make electricity..
Solar hot water systems are cheaper and need to be included..period.. no excuses

I dont know why but I feel that just to get some type of solar electric incentives.. That the people working on this Bill are giving to much away..The people of CAL. and writers of this article should be demanding more and not settle for these penney handouts..
Comment
21 of 35
June 9, 2005
From that last comment calling for wind power to be added to SB 1, I just couldn't help but pipe in. I'm a wind power fan, but its place is not in SB 1, especially at this late date. It should also be noted that according to a comprehensive study from ASPv, wind power was 6 percent incident with the year 2000 blackouts. In other words, solar is particularly well-suited to provide benefits during peak power demand. Wind, arguably less so, according to this analysis.

- REA News Editor
Comment
22 of 35
June 9, 2005
Solar thermal and wind power should be included in SB!. they are more efficient than PV. SB1 needs to be amended to include Solar Termal and wind power.
Comment
23 of 35
June 10, 2005
Hasn't anyone read the fine print of the bill???

ONLY C-10 Eelectrical Contractors will be allowed to install these PV systems. C-46 Solar Contractor License holders will be shut out. That means the people with the most knowledge, experience and history in the CA PV industry will be shoved out so that the IBEW's members can take control of the entire CA PV installation market! This is a huge power play by the IBEW and is a death sentence for scores of people in the solar industry.

California towns and cities will lose businesses, jobs and taxes. Consumers will suffer higher costs from union labor and inferior workmanship since the C-10 license does not encompass roofing issues like the C-46 does.

The future PV industry will see more consolidation and centralized control with less freedom and entrepreneurialism for the people coming up.

This is all wrong and must be addressed immediately. The text of the bill must be appended to include C-46 license holders!!!
Comment
24 of 35
June 11, 2005
Under SB 1 poor renters will be required to pay surcharges on their already inflated electric bills to subsidize wealthy Republican homeowners for their solar photo voltaic installations.

Yes, Arnold, the rich Republican governor is certainly in charge, isn't he? He leads the Democratic members of the Senate and the Assembly around as if he had them on a leash.

Rob from the poor to give to the rich, eh?

Those rich Republican homeowners should pay their own bills. Do not ask the poor to pay the bills of the rich.
Comment
25 of 35
June 13, 2005
Hopefully, California with all our sunshine, will encourage in various ways, the installation and use of solar energy. What could be more practical?
Comment
26 of 35
June 13, 2005
The biggest problem with SB 1 is that it is a regressive tax on the poor. SB 1 places a surcharge on the electric bills of all people, including the poor, whether they can afford it or not.

Instead, this subsidy should be paid out of the general fund, that way it is paid for by the state income tax. The state income tax is a progressive tax. The wealthy, who can afford it pay the most. The poor, who cannot afford it pay little or nothing.

That is how you solve your problem.
Comment
27 of 35
June 14, 2005
Solar thermal is the way to go. It costs far less than solar photovoltaics.
Comment
28 of 35
June 17, 2005
Over half the cost of solar photovoltaics on single family homes is the cost of the installation itself.

The cost of the installation will not come down, it will go up because there are not enough contractors to meet the added demand. The existing contractors will increse their installation prices, because they can.

Any reduction in the cost of the solar panels themselves will be taken away by the increase in the prices that the contractors charge for installations.
Comment
29 of 35
June 17, 2005
Under SB 1, the poor, who cannot afford it will pay the rebates to the rich who can afford to install the solar photovoltaics on their own homes. This is backwards. You should take the rebates from the general fund which is paid for by the rich, not surcharges on electricity bills which are largely paid for by the poor.

The poor have to use electricity to cook and run their dryers to dry the family clothes after they have been washed. The poor cannot avoid the use of electricity. They cannot afford their electricity bills now. And no, many of the poor cannot use clotheslines because either their landlords prohibit clotheslines, or they live in highrise apartments with little or no access to the sun.
Comment
30 of 35
June 17, 2005
Pay a little now or pay a lot more later! Wake up!

Will the "poor" be able to pay the high cost of electricity down the road if we don't invest today in alternative energy solutions?

The cost of photovoltaics will gradually come down just like everything else does. With this kind of program in place the solar manufacturers can increase production efficiencies and also improve photovoltaic efficiencies - everyone wins. With the rebate programs in place eventually even the "poor" can afford to use the suns power and avoid furture energy costs that help keep them "poor".

Let the "rich" pave the way if that's how you think.

It is the responsibility of this generation to provide for future generations.
Comment
31 of 35
June 18, 2005
There will be no savings as a result of solar photovoltaics. The cost of the installation will go up considerably because there are not enough contractors to do the installations. The increased cost of the installation will more than offset any reduction in the cost of the solar panels due to increased volume of production.

The subsidies should come out of the general fund which is paid for by the rich, not surcharges on the electric bills of the poor. Only the rich will be able to install solar photovoltaics on their homes, bacuse the poor cannot even buy homes. Only the rich can afford to buy homes and install solar photovoltaics.

The rich are the only ones who will benefit from solar photovoltaics. The poor should not buy the solar photovoltaics for the rich. The rich should pay for it, not the poor.
Comment
32 of 35
June 18, 2005
I added solar panels in 2002 taking advantage of the 50% rebate and a state tax rebate. I also purchased a time-of-use meter which combined to cut my yearly electric bill to zero. I expect to break even in 8-10 years. I don't have a lot of money but I have a perfect roof and exposure to maximize output and by not using electricity during peak hours, I am adding to the grid not subtracting.

I remodeled to add Low E windows and have all energy savings appliances. If someone is willing to buy solar I imagine they are interested in conservation of all kinds.

If enough homes/businesses add solar and CA does not have to build more plants, isn't that savings more than the incentives which the "poor people" mentioned above would have to pay one way or another?
Comment
33 of 35
June 19, 2005
So many of you are missing the point when all you can think about are the "poor "subsidizing the "rich". Utilities offer special rates for low income users and all electric users are paying and have been paying a token amount each month for conservation including rebates on efficient appliances as well as solar systems.

This is designed to encourage users to save energy so expensive and dirty plants don't have to be built to meet ever-expanding energy usage. If enough energy-conscious customers add solar or other energy saving solutions, the plan is to reduce the cost of having to build more plants which all "poor" and "rich" users will have to pay for anyway.

Those of you who complain that the costs are going to go up are not correct at least in the short run. The Wall Street Journal reports that both panels and cost of installing them are going down.
Comment
34 of 35
June 20, 2005
To Mary J.

Those low rates offered by the utilities are for very small amounts of electricity. A family of 4 needs far more electricity just to cook and run the clothes dryer than the utilities offer at low rates. The poor pay the high rates for most of their electricity. Many of the poor have to choose between feeding their families, paying the rent or payiing the electric bill.

The utilities will not lower their rates because they are now getting some of their electricity from homeowners with solar photovoltaic systems. If anything this will just become another excuse the utilities will use to raise rates, and the utilities will do just that.
Comment
35 of 35
June 20, 2005
Thank you, Mary J.

The costs for solar photovoltaics and the cost of the installation may have been going down in the past, however there are not nearly enough trained installers and contractors to meet the demand that this subsidy will create.

The contractors will raise their prices because they can.

I recommend, keep track of the installation cost of home based solar photovoltaic systems today, and then compare them with the installation costs after this bill becomes law. You will see a dramatic increase in the amount that the contractors charge for these installations.

I guarantee it.
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